Alfonso Soriano has had a very nice start to the season, so the fans that call for his head every time he makes a mistake in the field have been quieted a bit. That's about as much as anyone capable of rational, logical thought can expect from Soriano here in the beginning of the "bad part" of his mega-contract.
It seems that most fans' expectations had finally been brought down from expecting the 40/40 player that Jim Hendry John McDonough signed before the 2007 season. We realized Soriano's best days are behind him and we hope he can put out the production of a decent starter at the bottom of the lineup to negate his defensive deficiencies. As a fanbase, I think we've finally come to grips with the fact that Soriano will never be "worth" the money he makes each season.
Then here comes Gordon Wittenmyer talking about Soriano maybe hitting 50 homeruns this season and being totally serious about it.
Could this be the year Alfonso Soriano not only plays 150 games or more for the Cubs but also puts up some of the big numbers that his 40 home runs/40 stolen bases history and $136 million contract promised four years ago?
This would be like if I asked if this was the year that Gordon Wittenmyer finally became a serious beat-writer who didn't have to resort to appealing to the lowest common denominator in his writing. It just isn't fair to ask that question when the answer is most likely "No."
Of course, this is a nice change for Gordo and the rest of the media to at least be acknowledging that Soriano is doing some good things on the baseball field, but why is that not good enough? Why do we have to raise expectations on a 35-year old (at best) that is clearly in decline? Soriano's 2006 season was his best of his career and he had an OPS of .913. This year he is at .911 so far. Why would anyone even suggest he could keep this pace up for a full season at his age? It is just not fair to Soriano to raise those kind of expectations.
Hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo said he sees renewed confidence in Soriano and improved lower-half hitting mechanics that are allowing him to be in a better hitting position sooner and to see the ball longer.
Can't we just leave it at this? Can't we just have hope that Soriano, as a result of Jaramillo's work with him, might avoid some of the crippling slumps that have plagued him his whole career? Can't we surmise that Soriano seems poised to post numbers that would be an improvement on his 2010 season? Isn't that good enough? Why do we have to go and extrapolate out that he's on a 53 HR pace and seriously wonder if he can keep it up?
Sure, he might, but it isn't probable and barely plausible even taking Jaramillo's work with Soriano into account. But being reasonable and logical doesn't sell newspapers, so we'll blow this all out of proportion and when Soriano finishes with 25-30 HRs, everybody will still be down on him for not being able to keep up his early-season pace (probably after Gordo points out how his pace has slowed in a later piece).
So thanks for feeding the stupidity that our fan base gets pegged with, Gord.
Comments
[quote name=mb21]What time is the game today? Seriously. I’m too lazy to look.[/quote]
2:10
BerseliusQuote Reply
Rockies lineup today
CF Fowler
2B Herrera
LF Gonzalez
SS Tulo
1B Helton
RF Smith
3B Lopez
C Morales
P The right-handed James Russell
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]2:10[/quote]
2:10 2:10
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]288:10[/quote]
Just realized I had the time wrong (dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
(dying laughing) at the Verlander balk. That looked like something Clemens would do to Piazza.
AndCountingQuote Reply
A better question to ask would be “Is this the season where Soriano is healthy all year”, and than answer is simply “who the fuck knows”
BerseliusQuote Reply
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m going to be disappointed if Cubs produces anything less than a .335 batting average, 55 home runs and 150 RBI.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]A better question to ask would be “Is this the season where Soriano is healthy all year”, and than answer is simply “who the fuck knows”[/quote]False. We have to jump from maybe being healthy all year to a guy in his 30s matching the best season of his career. It’s the logical thing to do, b. Everybody knows this.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]False. We have to jump from maybe being healthy all year to a guy in his 30s matching the best season of his career. It’s the logical thing to do, b. Everybody knows this.[/quote]If Soriano would just hustle, he’d hit 60 homers and steal 60 bases. Easy.
Seriously, I hope he has the kind of year he’s been having. Healthy. Decent power. Avoid prolonged embarrassing slumps. Hitting anywhere from 5th to 7th in the lineup, it would be a pretty good year for Soriano. I expect his OPS (or any rate stat) to go down fairly quickly, mostly because it’s still so early that it gets artificially inflated every time he hits a homer.
AndCountingQuote Reply
OK, the recreational league I play in makes the Keystone Kubs look like nine Ozzie Smiths in the field. But even the umps are pure fail.
Today’s performance was one of the best. It was a tight low-scoring game, very tense toward the end, when the home team had the bases loaded with two outs and the score tied at 2-2. A WAG to 2B took forever to get scooped even though the 2B was playing in, he fired to home for the force but the runner beat the throw by a step.
The ump calls You’re Out! with the out motion, the home team starts freaking out and calling for blood, while the away team — for a brief moment — can’t believe their luck.
Just when the home team was about to tackle him to the ground, he said “I called game, I called game”, meaning game over.
Everyone was like, WTF??
Then he said, “I just made the wrong motion.” (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
What makes it funnier is the ump is Italian and sounds like the spaghetti chef in the Simpsons.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Soriano could have a surprisingly good year. 50HR is obviously outrageously unreasonable though. All the same, his line drives are up, his fly balls are up and his ground balls are down. Those are all things you want coming from Soriano. I sure hope he has a good year, cause i really like him, even if he never has another good year after this again it’d be nice to see the city get behind him for one year before they finally malign him until the day he dies.
DoogolasQuote Reply
soriano is going to have the kind of year he always has.
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]soriano is going to have the kind of year he always has.[/quote]
The kind of season where hes cursed by the greatest fans in baseball?
Correct.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I want to say cubs fans liked him in 07 and 08 if I remember correctly
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
I remember Soriano being booed very early on in his career with the Cubs.
mb21Quote Reply
Tim, you should take it easy on Gordo. It can’t be easy going through life as a portly ginger with a dick the size of a peanut.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Tim, you should take it easy on Gordo. It can’t be easy going through life as a portly ginger with a dick the size of a peanut.[/quote]It’s not that difficult. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban Kid]OK, the recreational league I play in makes the Keystone Kubs look like nine Ozzie Smiths in the field. But even the umps are pure fail.
Today’s performance was one of the best. It was a tight low-scoring game, very tense toward the end, when the home team had the bases loaded with two outs and the score tied at 2-2. A WAG to 2B took forever to get scooped even though the 2B was playing in, he fired to home for the force but the runner beat the throw by a step.
The ump calls You’re Out! with the out motion, the home team starts freaking out and calling for blood, while the away team — for a brief moment — can’t believe their luck.
Just when the home team was about to tackle him to the ground, he said “I called game, I called game”, meaning game over.
Everyone was like, WTF??
Then he said, “I just made the wrong motion.” (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
What makes it funnier is the ump is Italian and sounds like the spaghetti chef in the Simpsons.[/quote]
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]
[/quote]I’m full of them.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban Kid]I’m full of them.[/quote]I’m down for any story that involves an umpire with a cartoonish accent.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Another day, another blown save by Ryan Franklin
BerseliusQuote Reply
Also, the Brewers are on the verge of being swept by the Nationals.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Also, the Brewers are on the verge of being swept by the Nationals.[/quote]
Done.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Game of Thrones? Good?
mb21Quote Reply
It hasn’t started yet?
mb21Quote Reply
Soriano is obviously a negative influence on this team in so many ways: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110417&content_id=17914024¬ebook_id=17914026&vkey=notebook_chc&c_id=chc
mb21Quote Reply
Cano just hit a ball 1,200 feet.
GBTSQuote Reply
Cubs have 5 four game series this season. 4 of them are on the road. That’s weird.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Soriano is obviously a negative influence on this team in so many ways: http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110417&content_id=17914024¬ebook_id=17914026&vkey=notebook_chc&c_id=chc%5B/quote%5D
Does Castro still have a guest room in Casa Soriano?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Game of Thrones? Good?[/quote]
It should be pretty good. The books are fantastic. Hopefully having the series will help encourage the author to finish the books (dying laughing).
BerseliusQuote Reply
Darwin Barney was on the radio this morning and he mentioned that Soriano is a vet that’s always at the park early and working hard. These young guys are going to ruin Sori’s rep.
melissaQuote Reply
I doubt it, RC. Usually the rookies stay with a veteran for their first year and then move out. I wouldn’t want Castro living with my wife and I. No offense to Castro who I’m sure is a fantastic dude, but that’s my house and I have needs. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]It should be pretty good. The books are fantastic. Hopefully having the series will help encourage the author to finish the books (dying laughing).[/quote]It looks good. We started watching Borgias last night. We liked that show. Anyone else seen it yet?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]It looks good. We started watching Borgias last night. We liked that show. Anyone else seen it yet?[/quote]
Last night? I only watch recent shows.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]Darwin Barney was on the radio this morning and he mentioned that Soriano is a vet that’s always at the park early and working hard. These young guys are going to ruin Sori’s rep.[/quote]You’re assuming that Sully, Kap and Gordo give a shit about facts.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Last night? I only watch recent shows.[/quote]Like Three’s Company.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]You’re assuming that Sully, Kap and Gordo give a shit about facts.[/quote]
Facts get in the way of a good story.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Facts get in the way of a good story.[/quote]You’re assuming they write good stories.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]You’re assuming they write good stories.[/quote]
My sarcasm is lost on you…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]You’re assuming they write good stories.[/quote]
Correct. Their stories are neither fact laden nor are they entertaining.
melissaQuote Reply
(dying laughing) Good one.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]My sarcasm is lost on you…[/quote]I’m grading essay exams. My sense of humor is shot to shit.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
B==D~
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m grading essay exams. My sense of humor is shot to shit.[/quote]
A sad sign of our exponential times.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]A sad sign of our exponential times.[/quote]Best line of this batch:
“Kant has similar ideas to Pausanias, except for the man to man love, of which he is not a fan.” (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Sorry MO.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Challenge: fit more cliches into a post then this guy:
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/4/12/2105876/barney-makes-me-want-to-sing-i-love-you-you-love-me
Bonus points: find a way to create a lineup that benches two of your best sluggers for marginal talent.
ZappBranniganQuote Reply
The Purple Revolution. That would undoubtedly become as popular as the Killer B’s in Houston.
I have a perfect idea for what we can call the 1-2 punch. Starlin Castro and Darwin Barney. I like it. It took me awhile to come up with that too.
mb21Quote Reply
I think your team should at least be over .500 before you’re thinking up cute catchphrases for the 1 & 2 hitters. How about, “Not the suckiest of the suck?”
melissaQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I think your team should at least be over .500 before you’re thinking up cute catchphrases for the 1 & 2 hitters. How about, “Not the suckiest of the suck?”[/quote]
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
ZappBranniganQuote Reply
How about we have a catch phrase for the number 8 hitter? Something like this: shouldn’t be hitting 8th
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]How about we have a catch phrase for the number 8 hitter? Something like this: shouldn’t be hitting 8th[/quote]
I like this.
Slugfest in the Big Apple.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=melissa]I think your team should at least be over .500 before you’re thinking up cute catchphrases for the 1 & 2 hitters. How about, “Not the suckiest of the suck?”[/quote]
(dying laughing)
How about “the only 2 guys you’ll ever see on base on this shitty team”
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
Tempted as I am, I’m not taking the bait on that BCB link. There’s just no way I read that and go to bed happy.
AndCountingQuote Reply
Well, someone had to do this, might as well be me.
recs
Check out Chicago sports coverage at SB Nation Chicago
by Al Yellon on Apr 12, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 2
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
Alvin even got himself 2 commas in that 1 sentence.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]Tempted as I am, I’m not taking the bait on that BCB link. There’s just no way I read that and go to bed happy.[/quote]I was thinking the same thing. No way. As funny as it would be, I’m not getting into it.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate]Alvin even got himself 2 commas in that 1 sentence.[/quote]He’s got mad skillz.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I was thinking the same thing. No way. As funny as it would be, I’m not getting into it.[/quote]
really i skipped all the words, but Yellon posting the big purple dinosaur almost made me cry I laughed so hard
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
I was gone all day, so I just want to make sure: Starlin Castro is still good at sports, right?
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]I was gone all day, so I just want to make sure: Starlin Castro is still good at sports, right?[/quote]
Correct.
Except for that one last TOOTBLAN, but whatever.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=ZappBrannigan]Challenge: fit more cliches into a post then this guy:
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/4/12/2105876/barney-makes-me-want-to-sing-i-love-you-you-love-me
Bonus points: find a way to create a lineup that benches two of your best sluggers for marginal talent.[/quote]
Fuck that shit. Excuse my French, but God fucking damn it does it piss me off when people call Soriano lazy because he doesn’t sprint when he hits a God damn pop up. It’s so God damn annoying. The guy works his ass off, every single person ever to play with him has said as much including every manager he’s had, so I don’t fucking understand why people just choose to dislike him. The fact he makes a lot of money is the answer, I mean, I know that, but it still makes no sense to just blatantly make shit up about him that is neither true and is completely baseless.
I would end this post with a string of curses if I could. I’m just so pissed reading that shot at him for no reason.
DoogolasQuote Reply
Alvin’s post is all the proof one should need for the claim that Tim is arguing in this one. The feckless fucktards that write about this team have so deeply etched into the minds of the sheeple in the fandom that Soriano is lazy that they will never disabused of the notion, despite the fact that Soriano is one of the hardest-working players on the team.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]The guy works his ass off[/quote]False. His ass is still very much on. Can’t miss it. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
I like the picture of pissed off Castro for the Cubs’ loss.
I’d like to see smiling Castro at some point in the near future.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
You sons of bitches. I had to go over there and then I read this line that the guy predicted for Barney: .285/.380/.475
Does this guy even know what the second and third numbers are? Methinks not.
mb21Quote Reply
This is about the best picture I can find of Castro smiling:
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]You sons of bitches. I had to go over there and then I read this line that the guy predicted for Barney: .285/.380/.475
Does this guy even know what the second and third numbers are? Methinks not.[/quote]
It’s amazingly close to Barney’s current line of .333/.383/.452 after today’s game. I don’t think that .333 lasts for very long though, but I don’t know how good the Padres’ pitching is for this coming series.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]False. His ass is still very much on. Can’t miss it. (dying laughing)[/quote]
Hahahaha. Excellent.
Seriously though, he is arguably the hardest working guy on the team. Year after year guys on the team talk about how he’s always putting in extra work and he’s a great teammate.
Everyone I’ve know who has talked to the man (me included) has sung his praises on how he is undoubtedly the nicest guy on the team.
It makes no sense that people just decide to hate him.
DoogolasQuote Reply
There’s this one from espn, but I have a feeling they’d be pissed of:
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]You sons of bitches. I had to go over there and then I read this line that the guy predicted for Barney: .285/.380/.475
Does this guy even know what the second and third numbers are? Methinks not.[/quote]Barney never OPS’d over .720 in a full MiLB season, but of course he should better that by 130 points at the major league level, mb. You just don’t “get it.”
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]You sons of bitches. I had to go over there and then I read this line that the guy predicted for Barney: .285/.380/.475
Does this guy even know what the second and third numbers are? Methinks not.[/quote]You caved? I’m so disappointed. (dying laughing)
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]You sons of bitches. I had to go over there and then I read this line that the guy predicted for Barney: .285/.380/.475
Does this guy even know what the second and third numbers are? Methinks not.[/quote]
Hahaha. That’s a Godawful prediction. He’s seriously predicting a near .200ISO for Barney? That’s completely insane.
DoogolasQuote Reply
Until you realize these are the same people who find the stench of stale piss and warm beer nostalgic and heartwarming.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]Hahaha. That’s a Godawful prediction. He’s seriously predicting a near .200ISO for Barney? That’s obviously Bob Brenly.[/quote]
/mustached
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]/mustached[/quote]
Zinger.
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]Hahaha. That’s a Godawful prediction. He’s seriously predicting a near .200ISO for Barney? That’s completely insane.[/quote]
Hey man, it could happen. The 2011 Cubs – You Never Know™
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Hey man, it could happen. The 2011 Cubs – You Never Know™[/quote]
Start Reed Johnson over that lazy Latin.
Let’s see what happens. It just might work.
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]Zinger.[/quote]Seriously, they’re getting it from Johnny Cakes. He’s said at least twice that he thinks Barney can hit 15-20 HR if he “gets a chance.” Nevermind that his MiLB season high was 3.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Seriously, they’re getting it from Johnny Cakes. He’s said at least twice that he thinks Barney can hit 15-20 HR if he “gets a chance.” Nevermind that his MiLb season high was 3.[/quote]
I hope the wind keeps blowing out for Barney then.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Seriously, they’re getting it from Johnny Cakes. He’s said at least twice that he thinks Barney can hit 15-20 HR if he “gets a chance.” Nevermind that his MiLB season high was 3.[/quote]
You didn’t hear? Darwin Barney is actually the male version of Storm from X-Men, he’s just been waiting to use his powers until he got to the majors.
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]You didn’t hear? Darwin Barney is actually the male version of Storm from X-Men, he’s just been waiting to use his powers until he got to the majors.[/quote](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
I honestly think a lot of fans think that about minor league numbers. Guys that were mediocre even in the minors can just “turn it on.” Granted that happens on occasion, but still…
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I’ll say it right now. Darwin Barney’s odds of posting a .200 ISO are the exact same as the odds of me posting a .200 ISO at the MLB level this season in 750 plate appearances.
mb21Quote Reply
By the way, I’m glad Barney is starting and I’m even happier that he’s off to a great start. I’ve enjoyed watching him play. But I don’t think he’s the next Chase Utley.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]But I don’t think he’s the next Chase Utley.[/quote]
False. You can’t teach instincts.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]By the way, I’m glad Barney is starting and I’m even happier that he’s off to a great start. I’ve enjoyed watching him play. But I don’t think he’s the next Chase Utley.[/quote]Yeah, it’s nice to see, but the Brenly-led ballyhooing is a bit much.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
I honestly think a lot of fans think that about minor league numbers. Guys that were mediocre even in the minors can just “turn it on.” Granted that happens on occasion, but still…[/quote]
And most of the guys that do are guys that were at one time or another top prospects that just sucked for a while in the minors. It’s rarely guys that just come out of nowhere.
DoogolasQuote Reply
I know it’s a small sample size thing, but I’ve been smugly laughing about Crawford’s slow start with Boston this year.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]And most of the guys that do are guys that were at one time or another top prospects that just sucked for a while in the minors. It’s rarely guys that just come out of nowhere.[/quote]Good point. And even then, it’s rare. It’s an odd phenomenon. Many fans will look at a guy with eye-popping MiLB numbers and most can draw the conclusion that they need to be regarded with caution due to inferior competition; but that same fan will take a look at a guy with mediocre MiLB numbers who is having a hot MLB start and disregard them as “only minor league numbers.” The cognitive dissonances entertained by the majority sports fans is fascinating to me.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I know it’s a small sample size thing, but I’ve been smugly laughing about Crawford’s slow start with Boston this year.[/quote]
And how Xinfinity.
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Good point. And even then, it’s rare. It’s an odd phenomenon. Many fans will look at a guy with eye-popping MiLB numbers and most can draw the conclusion that they need to be regarded with caution due to inferior competition; but that same fan will take a look at a guy’s MiLB numbers who is having a hot MLB start and disregard them as “only minor league numbers.” The cognitive dissonances entertained by the majority sports fans is fascinating to me.[/quote]Agreed. Especially fascinating in that, if you call them out on it. they’ll tell you that you’re too focused on numbers and not what you see.
AKA: Logic not welcome.
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]Agreed. Especially fascinating in that, if you call them out on it. they’ll tell you that you’re too focused on numbers and not what you see.
AKA: Logic not welcome.[/quote]Indeed. The antipathy towards any sort of intellectualized approach to sport has always bothered me.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]False. You can’t teach instincts.[/quote]
This statement is so wrong it makes my head hurt. Bob Brenly the leading expert in Neuroscience and the regulatory mechanisms underlying learning and memory. Ugh.
/Brain aneurysm
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Indeed. The antipathy towards any sort of intellectualized approach to anything has always bothered me.[/quote]
Fixed
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]This statement is so wrong it makes my head hurt. Bob Brenly the leading expert in Neuroscience and the regulatory mechanism underlying learning and memory. Ugh.[/quote]Yeah, I’m starting to get into 4EA Cog Sci/Cog Ling. and already when I hear people say things like that, I want to punch them in the throat so they can no longer infect the ears of the young.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Fixed[/quote]
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
E’s 2 and 3 resonate with the scientist in me. And the attenuation of embedding makes instinct a dynamic process not regulated by birth genetics alone.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Indeed. The antipathy towards any sort of intellectualized approach to sport has always bothered me.[/quote]
On an aside, your vocabulary is filled with a cornucopia of pretty words.
DoogolasQuote Reply
Technically instincts can’t be taught. That’s kind of the definition of an instinct.
Anything you learn is a skill. Even if it becomes “almost instinctual” it is still a skill, not an instinct.
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]
E’s 2 and 3 resonate with the scientist in me. And the attenuation of embedding makes instinct a dynamic process not regulated by birth genetics alone.[/quote]What are your E’s? On the philosophical side, we have some disagreement about what they should be…(dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]On an aside, your vocabulary is filled with a cornucopia of pretty words.[/quote]Just wait. They’re counterbalanced by the utterly profane ones.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]Technically instincts can’t be taught. That’s kind of the definition of an instinct.
Anything you learn is a skill. Even if it becomes “almost instinctual” it is still a skill, not an instinct.[/quote]I’m tempted to say that could indicate a problem in the definition and not cdw’s assertion, but I’m mentally depleted past the point of having a philosophy fight. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The problem with this type of definition is that action can not be independent of experience/learning. Natural, impulse, tendency…these words all are affected by learning. This definition lacks the most recent scientific understanding of how behavior is influenced by environment on a genetic, epigenetic and translational level that we are only now learning about…so trying to untangled born traits from those which are learned are in their infancy if not impossible to dissociate.
cdwQuote Reply
Embodied, Embedded, Enacted, Extended.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m tempted to say that could indicate a problem in the definition and not cdw’s assertion, but I’m mentally depleted past the point of having a philosophy fight. (dying laughing)[/quote]
THIS.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]Embodied, Embedded, Enacted, Extended.[/quote]Sweet. No fights here, then. Extension and enaction are what most intrigue me, because of their implications for personal identity and language. But I’m just getting into the literature.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Certainly, in common usage one (see Brenly, Bob) can not factually discern between a trait/behavior that is solely due to genetic predisposition and one that is learned. So defending this type of usage w/o hard scientific data is pointless and counter productive.
cdwQuote Reply
The philosophical discussion stops NOW!!!
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]The philosophical discussion stops NOW!!![/quote]Don’t tell me what to do.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]The problem with this type of definition is that action can not be independent of experience/learning. Natural, impulse, tendency…these words all are affected by learning. This definition lacks the most recent scientific understanding of how behavior is influenced by environment on a genetic, epigenetic and translational level that we are only now learning about…so trying to untangled born traits from those which are learned are in their infancy if not impossible to dissociate.[/quote]While that may be true, I said “technically” it’s right. With the definition as it is, I was just pointing out that technically it’s true that instincts cannot be learned.
That may be a flaw in the definition, but hey, it happens.
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Sweet. No fights here, then. Extension and enaction are what most intrigue me, because of their implications for personal identity and language. But I’m just getting into the literature.[/quote]
I find myself more and more interested in enact. Though the engineer in me would like to believe this is a process which can be modeled.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]While that may be true, I said “technically” it’s right. With the definition as it is, I was just pointing out that technically it’s true that instincts cannot be learned.
That may be a flaw in the definition, but hey, it happens.[/quote]
Technically correct is the best kind of correct
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Technically correct is the best kind of correct
DoogolasQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]I find myself more and more interested in enact. Though the engineer in me would like to believe this is a process which can be modeled.[/quote]Eh. Maybe to a certain degree. Have you read the work from Varela, Thompson and Rosch on enaction? Johnson’s written about this, as well.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Eh. Maybe to a certain degree. Have you read the work from Varela, Thompson and Rosch on enaction? Johnson’s written about this, as well.[/quote]
No, I haven’t read those works. I am mostly experienced with the biological underpinnings of learning, memory and genetics. The 4Es are new to me. But I’m definitely going to google those authors b/c philosophical and psychological frameworks can be very valuable in driving/analyzing research. Plus these ideas are just interesting and cool. If you have a particular review or paper on enacted I would like to hear you recommendation.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Technically correct is the best kind of correct
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LwyVFnEjvo&feature=related
I apologize for nothing!!!
ZappBranniganQuote Reply
[quote name=Doogolas]While that may be true, I said “technically” it’s right. With the definition as it is, I was just pointing out that technically it’s true that instincts cannot be learned.
That may be a flaw in the definition, but hey, it happens.[/quote]
But an argument against definition rather than concept and logic is a little off the point of contention.
cdwQuote Reply
[quote name=cdw]No, I haven’t read those works. I am mostly experienced with the biological underpinnings of learning, memory and genetics. The 4Es are a new concept to me. But I’m definitely going to google those authors b/c philosophical and psychological frameworks can be very valuable in driving/analyzing research. Plus these idea are just interesting and cool. If you have a particular review or paper on enacted I would like to hear you recommendation.[/quote]The Embodied Mind by Varela, Thompson and Rosch This book was the first big push for enaction.
The Meaning of the Body and The Body In the Mind by Mark Johnson
If you want a popular sort of introduction to the issues on the philosophy side Alva Noe’s Out of Our Heads is fantastic.
As far as papers, I’m still trying to catch up on the history, so I’d be a poor judge of what’s super current in the journals. But those books are a good place to look for further readings.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Oh, and anything by Antonio Damasio is great.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The progression in this thread from Wittenmyer to Antonio Damasio is utterly inexplicable.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[/quote]
Gotta love this kid.
That Soriano guy just showing he’s a giant douchebag. And let’s not forget he’s lazy to boot!
DoogolasQuote Reply
(dying laughing) Snow before the first night game. Ricketts must be shitting himself.
GBTSQuote Reply
If I had paid full price for my ticket I’d feel obligated to go tonight. But at $10 it’s just not worth it.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=AndCounting]The progression in this thread from Wittenmyer to Antonio Damasio is utterly inexplicable.[/quote]Damasio is the laziest professor at the Salk Institute. I don’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be researching at his 1980s levels again.
GBTSQuote Reply
Whitenack 6 IP, 3 H, 0 ER, 3 K, 1 BB, 12-2 GO-FO
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]I know it’s a small sample size thing, but I’ve been smugly laughing about Crawford’s slow start with Boston this year.[/quote]
I root for the guy in general but yes, so hard.
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=Jame Gumb]
[/quote](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Can’t stop watching this.
AndCountingQuote Reply
I probably won’t root for him that much, though. I loved his time in Tampa and he’s clearly their best player ever at this point, but I was never in love with him as a player (this should earn me a -1 faget point, JG).
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]I probably won’t root for him that much, though. I loved his time in Tampa and he’s clearly their best player ever at this point, but I was never in love with him as a player (this should earn me a -1 faget point, JG).[/quote]
Mish, you are not a True Fan.
BerseliusQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Mish, you are not a True Faget.[/quote].
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Berselius]Mish, you are not a True Fan.[/quote]
False. I pay full price for tickets and turn down discounts.
MishQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]False. I pay full price for tickets and turn down discounts.[/quote]And tell everyone about your Purple Revolutionist.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mish]False. I pay full price for tickets and turn down discounts.[/quote]You’re a real American.
mb21Quote Reply
The Purple Revolution is quite possible the single dumbest idea that Al has ever had and that’s saying something.
mb21Quote Reply
new: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/the-3rd-annual-how-good-has-carlos-zambrano-been-in-his-career-post.html
mb21Quote Reply
purple revolution?
dylanjQuote Reply