The Dodgers May or May Not Be Pissed That Ryan Dempster May or May Not Have Heard Them Say Unflattering Things About Him on the Phone

In Commentary And Analysis by aisle424141 Comments

The Chicago media seems pretty intent on deciding whather Ryan Dempster was listening in to trade conversations about him or not. Was Dempster really listening in like Jay Leno in a broom closet as Ned Colletti outlined the reasons why he wasn't interested in parting with more than a bag of balls for Dempster's services? Or was there really a misuderstanding of Theo's words that indicated just that?

Does it matter?

That is the question nobody seems to be asking, and for all I care, it's the only question worth asking.

Paul Sullivan will tell you that it matters:

The serious breach of ethics figures to affect the relationship between the two organizations, which had been on good terms until now.

Oh no! We might not be able to get low-balled by the Dodgers anymore! What horrible things the Dodgers must be calling Theo and Jed. What are they saying, Paul?

Well, it doesn't have any quotes from anyone on the Dodgers except Ted Lilly expressing a minimal amount of regret that he won't get to see Ryan's Harry Caray impression this year and showing some confusion over exactly how many years it has been since the Cubs won a Championship. So Paul says that the Dodgers are upset, or that they "figure to be" upset.

Then the Cubs started backtracking and began telling anyone with a press pass that Dempster was in the Cubs offices but not right in the same office when the phone call was made.

The Cubs' position is that Epstein's remarks were "misinterpreted," leading to the Dodgers' angry reaction. The Cubs said Sunday they put Dempster on the phone to Colletti before the trade deadline, maintaining that was what Epstein was referring to Wednesday.

OK, so maybe Dempster listened in and maybe he didn't. I'd like to know more about this angry reaction.  Any good morsels from the Dodgers?

Colletti could not be reached for comment.

Damning evidence, for sure. The Dodgers are so pissed they're giving the media the silent treatment as well.

Later, Gordo pipes in to rally to Sullivan's cause:

But, according to sources, Dodgers officials remained chapped Sunday at the suggestion Dempster — whose consent was required to trade him — was allowed to listen to at least parts of those conversations. And Cubs’ efforts to reach out to general manager Ned Colletti over the weekend did little to thaw what could become a frosty relationship with a team that might be a fit for a Matt Garza trade in a few months.

So now there are sources. It doesn't say what type of sources they are. Sources within the Dodger organization itself? Sources who clean the Dodgers' offices and sometime hear private conversations? Sources who are drinking buddies with Ned Coletti who caught an earful from Ned after his third scotch and soda? Maybe they are sources that are completely fabricated. It's hard to say, though I have "sources" that tell me that it is complete bullshit. Prove me wrong.

Obviously we aren't going learn anything from the Chicago side on this.

I haven't seen a single national baseball writer mention a word about the Dodgers being pissed at the Cubs.  This isn't like if it was the Pittsburgh Pirates or the Kansas City Royals being pissed, we're talking about the Los Angeles freakin' Dodgers. A baseball team in the #2 media market in the country is pissed at a team from the #3 media market in the country and nobody is reporting anything about it outside of Chicago, and the Chicago reports are nebulous at best.

I asked a couple of Dodger bloggers I know on Twitter if they have heard anything about the Dodgers being pissed at the Cubs.

Mike Petriello, of Mike Scioscia's Tragic Illness (which is one of the best sports blog names ever): 

about the Dempster thing? Lots of conflicting reports. I doubt it leads to anything.

Eric Stephen, of True Blue LA:

I haven't really heard anything re: Dempster

They seem pretty worked up about it. Clearly this is a huge story in Los Angeles. It's all anybody can talk about.

Meanwhile Ryan Dempster is telling reporters he never heard nothin' about no trade negotiations with the Dodgers:

"I never was listening to the Dodgers and Cubs negotiate this deal," Dempster said. "I was in the other room, and they wanted me there to be informed and also be able to talk about other teams that may come up. They came to me with a couple of other teams, but there was never any deal they had set up. When they came to me eventually with the Yankees and Texas, and it appeared we weren't going to get anything done with the Dodgers, I told them to go ahead.

"At about a half-hour before the deadline, they put me on the phone with Ned Colletti. We had a conversation and it was apparent at that time that regardless of how hard all sides worked, that they weren't going to get a deal done. I told him I definitely wanted to come to the Dodgers, and that I'd be interested in signing an extension, and I told him I wasn't just saying that to try to get the deal done. At that point, we just said goodbye and wished each other well."

This doesn't mean much of anything since Dempster could just be spinning the same story as Theo and Jed to cover up the tracks, but you have to ask yourself why he would bother.  He may be trying to get back on the good side of Theo and Jed by getting their backs after he pretty much submarined his own trade value by refusing to believe the Dodgers were never really an option and backing the Cubs into a corner. It's possible, but it's flimsy.

So maybe the Dodgers are pissed, maybe they aren't. Maybe Dempster was listening and maybe he wasn't. Nothing I've seen indicates that it matters in the slightest.  If the Cubs ever actually have a piece that the Dodgers want, I'm sure Ned Colletti will muster up the willpower to work a deal with Theo and Jed. At this point, the Cubs don't have anything the Dodgers want. They barely even wanted Dempster. They don't care about Soriano, and Garza is a moot point since he'd never clear waivers and his health is now a serious question.  If the Cubs suddenly had an inclination to trade them Anthony Rizzo to fill their gaping hole at first base, I think Ned would listen to whatever Jed & Theo have to say.  Until then, who cares?

****UPDATE****

Bruce Levine went on the Afternoon Saloon show on ESPN 1000 in Chicago and discussed what Dempster heard and when he heard it. He re-iterated Dempster's account that said he was in the offices, but not right in the same office as the phone call and then spoke directly with Collettti to convince him no Dodgers deal was happening.

I think it was Harry Teinowitz then asked if the Dodgers believe that story now and Bruce indicated that the Dodgers "were relieved" to hear Dempster's version and do believe it.

So Levine implied that they may have indeed been upset, but now they aren't. Crisis averted.

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  1. mb21

    Haven’t read 424’s article yet, but I posted this in the last thread…

    @ Mercurial Outfielder:
    I don’t know what you mean by initial story, but here are Theo’s words:

    “It was an unusual situation. But I think it as helpful to have him there so he could hear first-hand that (the Dodgers deal) wasn’t going to happen,” Cubs president Theo Epstein said

    Every outlet ran with Dempster listening because that’s what Theo said.

    The article I linked last night was pure speculation. There are no lies. It’s just Sullivan speculating it might be difficult to trade with the Dodgers over this. I think it’s nonsense as I said last night, but Theo said Dempster listened in.

    That Hoyer is now contradicting what Theo said doesn’t make the initial article false (Carrie Muskat ran with it too because that’s what Theo said).

    Sullivan is a piece of shit and his article last night was nonsense, but it wasn’t because he fabricated a story about Dempster listening in. He was told, like other beat reporters were told at the same time, that Dempster listened in. It’s plain as day that Theo says Dempster listened in.

    In the final hour before the Trade Deadline on Tuesday, Dempster was with Epstein and general manager Jed Hoyer to listen to conversations with the Dodgers.

    “Once he came into our office and actually heard the conversations we had with L.A., he came to realize, ‘OK, that’s not actually going to happen, let me consider a couple other places,’ and the deal got done with about three minutes left,” Epstein said.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120801&content_id=35943810&notebook_id=35945046&vkey=notebook_chc&c_id=chc&partnerId=rss_chc&target=Z&source=PJ_AD:Z:MLB&affiliateId=21181&clickId=432093844&affiliateCustomId=skim32290X899567X098c39c5bb09c92ede13221a0fbe2181

    This cannot be mistaken as anything other than Theo saying that Ryan Dempster came in to listen to the discussions.

    I hate defending Sullivan, especially when I think he wrote a shitty article last night, but saying he lied about this is untrue. Maybe Sullivan was lied to by Theo (and so were the other reporters), but he and they were told Dempster listened in.

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  2. mb21

    Does it matter?
    That is the question nobody seems to be asking, and for all I care, it’s the only question worth asking.

    No. It matters as much as most of the handwringing over the last 10 days.

    Sullivan is a fool if he thinks this is going to affect possible deals between the Cubs and Dodgers. I don’t doubt the Dodgers were a little upset over hearing Dempster listened in and I don’t think anyone is going to believe them at this point as they backtrack on those comments. But it’s definitely not going to affect the Cubs and Dodgers when it comes to making trades.

    Was he listening in? Theo said so. Do I care? I’m as interested in getting to the bottom of this silly ridiculous mess as I was interested in getting to the bottom of the last silly and ridiculous mess (Dempster trade).

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  4. mb21

    If the Cubs ever actually have a piece that the Dodgers want, I’m sure Ned Colletti will muster up the willpower to work a deal with Theo and Jed.

    THIS. It takes a moron to think that another GM would hang up on some GM who he might be pissed at even if that team has what they want and might have the best deal for their team. Just stupid. Sullivan should be fired for even thinking that shit up.

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  5. Author
    Aisle424

    mb21 wrote:

    Sullivan is a fool if he thinks this is going to affect possible deals between the Cubs and Dodgers. I don’t doubt the Dodgers were a little upset over hearing Dempster listened in and I don’t think anyone is going to believe them at this point as they backtrack on those comments. But it’s definitely not going to affect the Cubs and Dodgers when it comes to making trades.

    Yes. Exactly.

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  6. josh

    @ mb21:
    “Once he came into the office and actually heard…”

    could be interpreted as “Once we sat Demp down and told him explicitly what the Dodgers were offering in negotiation.”

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  8. mb21

    @ josh:
    Could be, but this is also added:

    “If someone really wants to go to a place, you can tell them over and over again that it’s probably not going to happen, but unless they’re convinced of that, they may not want to move on to their second choice,” Epstein said.

    If you can tell them over and over again and not be convinced, why would they call him into a separate office to tell him one more time it’s not going to happen? Based on what Theo said after that trade I just don’t think you can come away thinking anything other than Dempster was in the room and listening to the conversation. I mean, why won’t telling him over and over convince him, but calling him into some office and telling him yet again will?

    What I think happened is this: Dempster was called into an office (not the one being used to discuss trades) and Dempster was given a number to call Colletti as he said he did and Dempster realized the trade wasn’t going to happen (as Dempster said it happened). Theo then misspoke and led people to believe Dempster was listening in when he should have just said that Dempster called Colletti to end any and all confusion.

    I read the comments by Theo 3 or 4 times and was very surprised that I never saw anything in them that led me to believe anything else. I was surprised because I know this isn’t acceptable to other teams. However, it’s not so unacceptable that deals will stop being made between these teams.

    At the very least, it’s incorrect to say that Sullivan lied when so many people reported the same thing based on the comments.

    “Once he came into the office and actually heard…”

    Surely they had already sat Demp down and tried to explain this to him.

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  9. mb21

    And I’m sure the Dodgers were a little frustrated when they read Theo’s comments and understandably so. I’m also sure Theo and or Hoyer have called them to explain what happened and apologized for any miscommunication. I’m even more sure that even if they hadn’t it wouldn’t have affected the teams when it comes to dealing together in the future.

    I don’t know if the Dodgers believe the Cubs. I probably wouldn’t, but I’m biased and want to believe it so I can come up with a feasible scenario that makes sense. But who really cares?

    I don’t care if Dempster was in the office from the very first conversation they had. I don’t care if the Dodgers are pissed and I don’t care if the Cubs flat out lied about it. None of this affects the baseball team and is therefore irrelevant in my opinion. Writing what Sullivan did last night was irresponsible because it was pure speculation and not even a source was mentioned.

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  10. Author
    Aisle424

    @ mb21:
    I think 2 things could be getting wrapped into one here. They have said that they put Dempster on the phone with Colletti and Colletti told him it wasn’t happening. So that could be what he meant by “Once he came into the office and actually heard…”

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  11. mb21

    mb21 wrote:

    I don’t care if Dempster was in the office from the very first conversation they had. I don’t care if the Dodgers are pissed and I don’t care if the Cubs flat out lied about it. None of this affects the baseball team and is therefore irrelevant in my opinion. Writing what Sullivan did last night was irresponsible because it was pure speculation and not even a source was mentioned.

    This is what happens when the team sucks this time of year. If I knew better I’d stop paying attention to the Cubs after July 15th in seasons they sucked. After that it’s not about baseball. It should be the next great drama show on TNT. The great thing for TNT is they can renew it every single year knowing that by July 15th the Cubs will suck. (dying laughing)

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  12. Mercurial Outfielder

    @ mb21:
    You’re misconstruing my argument. Sullivan completely and wholly fabricated the Dodgers Are PIssed storyline. There’s not a shred of evidence to even suggest that. And he’s reporting it as fact, with nary a source. That’s the lie.

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  13. Rodrigo Ramirez

    I honestly think Theo’s statements are being misconstrued. Each time I read it I’m envisioning Dempster in the general office (probably the next one over) and not on the phone listening. Until he actually speaks to Ned, that is.

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  15. mb21

    @ Aisle424:
    Did Theo mention the phone call? You might be right, but the first I heard about the phone call was from Dempster’s comments. To the best of my knowledge I don’t think Theo mentioned Dempster’s discussion with Colletti, but yes, I agree that’s what Theo meant. He should have made it more clear in his comments following the trade. That cubs.com article I linked earlier in this thread had more info from that statement than any other article I’ve seen and there’s nothing in there about a phone call.

    I do think it was a misunderstanding, but I don’t fault the beat reporters for running with the articles about Dempster listening in.

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  16. Mercurial Outfielder

    I also agree that none of this matters for any future dealings with LA or any other team.

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  18. Mercurial Outfielder

    @ mb21:
    Only one guy ran with it, and then made up a story to make it last. The rest of the beat guys were doing their job, not manufacturing dissent.

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  19. Mercurial Outfielder

    @ mb21:
    I think he’s just an instigator. Yellow journalism. That’s Sully’s stock-in-trade. As a baseball writer, he’s pretty fucking mediocre. Doesn’t know the game well, isn’t interested any in-depth analysis. Loves a narrative, and loves to provoke.

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  20. Gbts46

    Or maybe Dempster, Theo, and Colletti all went into Hoyer’s dream together, and Theo and Colletti were talking in the dream about Dempster when he wasn’t around, and then the three of them went into Theo’s dream but Dempster took the form of Hoyer so Colleti thought he was talking to him about his feelings for Dempster but it was actually Dempster, and then Theo woke up and kicked them all back to Hoyer’s dream where they nixed the trade because Colletti didn’t know he was still dreaming?

    ….did you guys know Inception is on Netflix?

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  21. Berselius

    Gbts46 wrote:

    How do we know Dempster wasn’t listening from the DODGERS’ office, hmm?

    I have a source that says Theo has an AGM named Ned and Coletti has a AGM named Theo. Hmm…

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  23. mb21

    @ Mercurial Outfielder:
    FWIW, what Sullivan did seems like something some blog would do. Not a very good one. Definitely not one that I’d find myself reading often, but it’s that type of speculation that blogs (this one too) specialize in. That’s the thing. It’s something a blogger would do (not even a good one!). Isn’t Sullivan supposed to be a journalist?

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  27. GBTS

    Colletti’s best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s girlfriend heard from Theo who knows this kid who’s going with this girl who saw Dempster pass out at 31 Flavors last night.

    I guess it’s pretty serious.

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  35. Dick McCheesedoodle

    Do I care? I’m as interested in getting to the bottom of this silly ridiculous mess as I was interested in getting to the bottom of the last silly and ridiculous mess (Dempster trade).

    But who really cares?

    I don’t care if Dempster was in the office from the very first conversation they had

    I don’t care if the Dodgers are pissed

    I don’t care if the Cubs flat out lied about it

    These statements were very surprising.

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  40. Mercurial Outfielder

    @ Rizzo the Rat:

    If you’ve seen Raley at Iowa you’ll know he’s not a hard thrower, usually under 90, but cuts or sinks the ball sometimes.— Harry Pavlidis (@harrypav) August 6, 2012

    He also has a change and a slider and I’ve seen him throw a curveball. Full kit of six pitches with good fastball command.— Harry Pavlidis (@harrypav) August 6, 2012

    6th Rd. pick in 2009, Cubs MiLB Player of the Month for June. 3.76 FIP this year.

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  60. mb21

    I had read something about recovering from stress reaction in the leg and it sounds like it takes a long time. That’s all I know at this point but wouldnt be surprised if he’s out for the year.

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  62. 26.2cubfan

    @ mb21:

    I coach track and cross country and it happens to my kids with some frequency. It’s one step better than a stress fracture. When it’s in the legs, it requires an air boot for 2 weeks for recovery. Could be worse I suppose – although I’m not sure how an arm gets it from throwing stuff…

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  67. mb21

    Say 2 weeks no mobility. Another couple weeks before they’re throwing off a mound. Couple weeks of that. Maybe he gets a start or two. My guess is they just shut him down for good this year.

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  83. Mobile Rodrigo

    According to Kap today on CTL the Cubs almost had a deal in place with the Rangers for Garza.

    Obviously this can’t be confirmed, but he said the haul was better than what the Cuba gave up to get him. And then he got hurt. Balls.

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  87. SVB

    Mercurial Outfielder wrote:

    @ mb21:
    One wonders just what the editors at TribCo actually do.

    THIS THIS THIS

    This whole discussion is why I don’t take any of this “source” crap seriously. I’m 100% sure that Sullivan made this whole thing up about the Dodger’s being upset. Wait til Z signs with them and Q becomes their 3rd base coach, then we’ll get the “united in being screwed by the Cubs” article, even though he was writing about how Z was hurting the Cubs when he was here.

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  89. SVB

    From Muskat’s article on the Garz:

    Cubs reliever Blake Parker was diagnosed with the same injury earlier this year, and he last pitched June 1. He was scheduled to make his first rehab start on Monday for Triple-A Iowa

    .
    So two months. AKA season over.

    With the loss of Garza, Jeff Samardzija now has senior status on the Cubs rotation, and this is his first year as a full-time starter.

    (dying laughing). Isn’t he already over his personal high in IP? RACING to the top. Higher, Faster, Weaker.

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  100. Mercurial Outfielder

    (dying laughing), now it’s there (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)

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  104. shawndgoldman

    Do we think Garza/Samardzija/Raley would constitute a decent 3-4-5 next season? Probably not good enough right?

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  109. shawndgoldman

    How about Peavy and Sanchez? They’d both be affordable and you might get away with signing Peavy to a relatively short-term deal.

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  113. SVB

    Thinking more about Sori and the Tykes, I think that’s an OK option for next year. We aren’t going to be a good team, but it’s helpful to have some leadership on a team and Soriano would be about the only candidate to be the good veteran leader, you know, unless we sign Eric Karros. Anyway, we can trade him for a C-grade low-A prospect that’s got next to no shot in getting to the bigs while paying all his salary, or we can keep him, get 25 HR and 87 RBI, and the added value of leadership.

    Could be that I’m projecting Sori to be a better guy than he really is in the clubhouse, but I don’t think so, based on managers sending kids to him, comments from fairly credible reporters, and his attitude with the media/fans. Could be that veteran leadership doesn’t matter in baseball (MB?), but I don’t buy that. I’ve seen a lot of talented groups fail with poor informal leadership, and mediocre groups exceed expectations with excellent leadership. The titular leader is often less important than the supporting leader (i.e. Sori may be more important than Sveum).

    So I like it. Sori and the Tykes. Sign me up for some Bubbsoptimism and an over/under of 68 wins next year.

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  130. Mercurial Outfielder

    Look folks, Brett Jackson is going to strike out. A lot. Accept that now.— Kevin Goldstein (@Kevin_Goldstein) August 7, 2012

    Nope. RT @nyyfan_el: @kevin_goldstein Kinda sounds like a LH Drew Stubbs… good comp?— Kevin Goldstein (@Kevin_Goldstein) August 7, 2012

    Not that good a hitter. RT @callmeg_unit: @kevin_goldstein Jackson has a hit tool issue, but what is it that he’s exactly doing/not doing?— Kevin Goldstein (@Kevin_Goldstein) August 7, 2012

    + Power, + run + defense. RT @callmeg_unit: @kevin_goldstein If that’s the case, what do the cubs front office see in him?— Kevin Goldstein (@Kevin_Goldstein) August 7, 2012

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  131. shawndgoldman

    @ Rice Cube:

    The good thing about guys like Greinke and Sanchez is they’re young enough where they could still be near their peaks when the Cubs have accrued enough offensive talent to compete.

    If the plan is to wait on the Cubs to develop pitching talent… well then the next 3-4 years are shot. So if they’re going to compete anytime soon they’ll have to chase that down in the FA/trade market. Signing young-ish guys for that purpose makes sense.

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