I'll never understand how Cubs fans and White Sox fans can technically be from the same city. Last night, the Sox had Chris Sale taking the mound as they went for the first sweep of the New York Yankees at home in 21 years. 26,319 people showed up to watch that. That's less than 65% of capacity. More than one third of the stadium was unsold.
I posted on my Facebook page wondering what the hell it takes to get a White Sox fan to the ballpark and I got a lot of reasons from different people. One person suggested that the White Sox base crowd is now largely in the suburbs, so you can't really call them a major urban market team anymore. We got the usual the neighborhood sucks, the ballpark is lame stuff that always gets mentioned by Cubs fans when addressing Sox attendance.
That is all well and good for reasons why people don't flock to U.S. Cellular on a regular basis to watch the White Sox play the A's or somebody like that, but think about if the situation last night was the Cubs. Imagine if 23-year old Chris Sale was a Cub. He's 15-4 so that's the 2nd most wins in the majors. His .789 win percentage is 5th in the majors. He has a 2.65 ERA that is good for 7th. His FIP is 3.11 (12th). His xFIP is 3.22 (8th). His fWAR is 4.2 which is behind only Felix Hernandez, Justin Verlander, Clayton Kershaw, Stephen Strasburg, and Johnny Cueto. He is 23 years old. He is going to be the face of that rotation for a long, long time if he doesn't get hurt and the Sox are actually handling his pitching load in a responsible manner without arbitrarily shutting him down for the playoffs like the Nationals are with Strasburg. That is pretty damn exciting. How much would you pay to see this kid in a Cubs uniform?
Wait! Don't answer! We'll also allow you to see him pitch for a team that has been leading its division for most of the year after the consensus was they were too old and overpaid to compete. Adam Dunn is resurrected from the dead, Alex Rios is playing like the guy the Blue Jays signed for a bajillion dollars, Kevin Youkilis has been nails since arriving into town, A.J. Pierzynski is having a career year. They're getting contributions from everyone. They come from behind, they add to leads, they hit huge homeruns, they play pretty good defense! They're a pretty fucking fun team to watch if you're not throwing up in your mouth because you're a Cubs fan. Now how much would you pay?
Wait! Don't answer! We're also going to throw in an opponent that has won 27 World Championships and 40 American League Championships in their history, always has a lineup full of top dollar stars, and until last night had the best record in the American League. And the Sox were going for a sweep. There was a chance to see the White Sox sweep the New. York. Yankees. This would give the team automatic legitimacy if there were still doubters out there, this was a game that could change everything. It was not just a Wednesday night baseball game between a couple of good teams. This was a moment you don't get very often. It was an event.
Again, imagine that is all happening for the Cubs. Is there any price fans wouldn't pay? Is there any location that Cubs fans would not flock to watch it? If the Cubs played the Yankees in that situation in U.S. Cellular, they'd be charging a couple hundred bucks for the last row of the upper deck and people would be buying them. They would be shoving their own mother out of the way for the opportunity to sit directly behind the foul pole.
Sox fans left over one third of their stadium (which they all claim is superior to Wrigley) unsold. This wasn't about the neighborhood. Who cares about the neighborhood for a game like that? You're not hanging out in the neighborhood. You're parking in a security-controlled parking lot and walking for 3 minutes to the gate. You can't do that to watch your Cy Young candidate pitcher go for a sweep of the Yankees? I don't understand at all.
There was literally no problem with last night for a one-time event like that game was. The weather was beautiful. The games before were fantastic games. Game 1 featured two comebacks fueled by HRs by Alexei Ramirez, Gordon Beckham, Dewayne Wise and Adam Dunn. They also fell behind briefly in Game 2, only to tie it up and then have Kevin Youkilis launch a go-ahead grand slam. You can't ask for better lead-ins to a Game 3 sweep attempt.
The Sun-Times' Daryl Van Schouwen addressed this topic in his piece today including a Twitter quote from a Sox fan:
“Most White Sox fans can’t shell out a couple hundred dollars on a random weekday for a baseball game,’’ Sox fan Eric Galka posted on Twitter on Tuesday night.
The problem is, this was not a "random weekday." Eric acts like everyone is bitching about why the attendance is so low for a game with the Sox playing the Mariners in April or something. This game was a big fucking deal. Do you know how big of a deal it was? I wanted to go to the game just to watch it. I don't like either team, I live on the North Side, and I'm having kind of a busy week at work and I wanted in on that game last night. I would have paid $26 to sit in the Upper Deck just to witness a game like that. Games like that are why we fucking watch baseball at all. If you call yourself a baseball fan and can't get worked up about a game like the Sox/Yankees game last night, you seriously aren't going to get worked up over much.
For games like that involving the team you root for, you don't care about the prices, you don't care about the neighborhood, you don't care about the distance you drive or take the train, and you don't care about what time you have to get up for work in the morning. At least, I wouldn't care. I guess White Sox fans need more than that.
Kudos to the 26,000 that did show up. That was a hell of a game and a hell of series. It must have been an absolute blast to witness it first hand. I guess we'll see the rest of you in the playoffs? Maybe? If you don't have to get up too early the next day and the prices are reasonable, of course.
Comments
This is nothing new. It’s always been like that over there.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Why do you think it is? I was one of the Cubs fans to answer Aisley’s query BTW (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
I feel like it was more pronounced last night. In past years, I’ve gone to games in the past when the Sox were playing the Twins down the stretch and it was a huge series and the stadium was full. They may not show up on a regular basis, but they usually showed up for the big moments. Now, if this series is any indication, they are reluctant to even do that.
I’m not even saying they should sell the place out, but leaving one third empty? They’re going to get outdrawn by the Cubs playing the Rockies this weekend in their epic battle for the 2nd draft pick in 2013.
I know the Cub numbers are inflated by season ticket accounts, but holy shit, the Sox can’t compete with the shittiest Cubs team in our lives while they are in first place? It’s just weird.
Aisle424Quote Reply
I used to live in Bridgeport. I actually thought it was a nice neighborhood. Across the interstate it’s a little more sketchy, but not bad. I went to several games when we lived there and they used to just cover the upper deck seats with a big tarp on weekdays.
joshQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
Plus, they have that guy who walks around yelling “HEY BEER DUDE!” in a thick Chicago accent.
joshQuote Reply
Coming from a broke ass kid who graduated college 3 days ago who skipped class to see Anthony Rizzo’s debut, I totally agree. I think its too easy to say the neighborhood, or Cubs fans are just sheep, or whatever. Sure those MATTER, but not for a game like this. Marketing? Finding a way to capitalize on the wins should be easy enough, I feel like.
The more I think about this the less of a good answer I can think of (dying laughing)
akabariQuote Reply
I think it’s down to 3 things:
1.) The economy. Sox fans are by-and-large homeowning, working class people. The recession has hit them pretty hard, especially the people in the building trades.
2.) The location. For people without access to the El, it’s not an easy place to get to, there isn’t much to do before and after the game in the neighborhood, and the neighborhood is not the safest place in the world.
3.) The attitude. The Sox have this chip-on-the-shoulder, us-against-the-world attitude, and it exudes from every level of the team: owner, GM, manager, several players, and even the TV and radio broadcast team. I think that sort of unceasingly petty bitterness turns people off after a while. I know two Sox fans who stopped rooting for them after it became insufferable even in 2006 after they had won a World Series.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I seriously bet right now if I asked people here at work who know nothing about baseball, more people would know who Theo is than Chris Sale because of the hype. I feel like bashability make the Cubs easier to cover than a team that’s just doing really well with no drama. Meltdowns sell papers.
akabariQuote Reply
As far back as July 6th, I was getting emails from a White Sox ticket rep that for a group of 10 or more, I could get $56/person for the August 20th & August 21st games v the Yankees (normally $82) which got you a lower reserved ticket + the 2-hour all you can eat/drink-fest in the Patio.
This past weekend I got a similar email offering $36/person for the September 10th game v the Tigers (normally $60) or $47/person for the September 12th game (normally $68). This would mean that they likely are around the 26K number in tickets sold for that series as well.
Just horrible. Enough giving me crap about being a Cubs fan and the 104 years of futility….. Sox fans, you just suck as “fans”.
Duey23Quote Reply
Also we have All Yellon, so..
akabariQuote Reply
When they do, let me know.
Tom RickettsQuote Reply
The Sox also were rumored to have taken a big hit in renewals this year, too.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
This.
Also, I’d venture to guess that at least 25% of the people who show up to Cubs games could care less and/or are oblivious to the importance of the game. A lot of the people who sit around me at Wrigley are either already drunk, in the process of getting drunk, or are talking about where they are going to get drunk when they leave the park. This may also be true at White Sox games, but the park doesn’t have the same connotation of being a bar wrapped around a baseball game that the Cubs do. I honestly think that pulls a lot of people in.
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Ironically I think one of Aisley’s Sox fan friends took offense when I brought up the economic aspect even though it was the most obvious one I could think of.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ WenningtonsGorillaCock:
Yeah, and I think that falls under both my (2) and my (3) above. I will say this, though: I would choose 100 times out of 100 to tailgate before a baseball game than to fork my money over the extortionist, meat-market bars around Wrigley.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
See (3) above. That’s what I’m talking about. anything that can be construed in any way as a criticism is greeted with extreme umbrage. And it starts at the top. A vocal minority of Sox fans embrace this; and I think they drive many of their fellows away with it.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Point 3 is probably the most relevant one for me. I always felt kind of vaguely threatened there, and not by the neighborhood. There’s a lot of aggressive toward the Cubs marketing at Sox Stadium.
joshQuote Reply
So you guys think that the major deterrent to going to a game at the Cell is the fanbase itself?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Anyone know what the tv ratings have been for the White Sox?
mb21Quote Reply
mb21 wrote:
That’s a really good question. I’m betting they’re up, but it would be interesting to see how much they are up. I’d be interested to see if yesterday’s game spiked significantly too.
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ Aisle424:
I was wondering how it would compare to other teams (even the Cubs).
mb21Quote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I think it’s a factor. You really see that effect with the Raiders out here in Oakland. Folks who can afford the seats have been turned off by a segment of the fanbase, which in turn has caused all of their games to be blacked out. It’s not necessarily a fair criticism as Candlestick has arguably been a worse environment over the past few years, but you’d better believe that rich white folks from Orinda or Pleasanton are not heading to the Coliseum on Sundays.
A night game at Wrigley is a far, far cry from being a family-friendly environment, but perception matters. I think that stuff keeps certain people away.
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Me too, but then again, you seem like a reasonable person. To get back to WGC’s comment, there is a significant chunk of the crowd at many sporting events who are in it to do just what you’ve described, and some places are worse than others. You get enough of that at Giants games that I just don’t like going over there anymore. Makes me the only person in the world who prefers a night at the ballpark in Oakland over one in San Francisco. And it’s one of the reasons that the NBA is intolerable, IMO. I turn down free Warriors tickets all the time, ’cause fuck that noise. I’d rather be at McNally’s drinking an Irish coffee.
uncle daveQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I do. I think it’s getting that way at Wrigley, for a lot the reasons WGC mentioned, too.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The Yankee series was premium pricing. The idiots at the White Sox haven’t determined that 26,000 at $50 a seat is worse than 45,000 at $30. Yet they bitch when people don’t show up to the park and complain they can’t make any moves because of attendance.
pinetarQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Miller park tailgates uber alles. It’s a great place to visit.
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
Stimmt! Love a trip up there.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
That’s too bad. I’m actually on a softball team with a bunch of White Sox fans and aside from some general ribbing they all seem like good guys. I don’t really see the need to act like a chode about a sports team, but whatever.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I have great friends that are Sox fans, and I’m just passing on what they say about things over there.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
pinetar wrote:
I agree that their pricing seems out of whack. I think everything that has been mentioned is a valid contributor to why they don’t draw more regularly. but last night’s game was one of those that transcends all of that. Or, at least, I’d think it would. Like I said, I damn near talked myself into heading down there by myself last night to watch that game, but the fact that I’m not actually a fan of either team and that I would be going by myself stopped me.
if I was a fan of the White Sox, I wouldn’t give a shit if I had to sit between Al and Ronnie Woo in the last row of the Upper Deck for $50. I would’ve been there.
Aisle424Quote Reply
This isn’t even an Atlanta Braves first round of the playoffs situation. The Sox aren’t that good consistently enough to be blah about it yet. It should still be pretty damn cool to their fans when that team is playing like a true contender.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Berselius wrote:
I don’t understand the fascination with Miller Park. Once you are done tailgating, you’re watching baseball in an airplane hangar. I go there, but it’s for the tailgating. I’d much rather go to U.S. Cellular to watch a baseball game.
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ Aisle424:
I’m not a fan of the Sox but at the same time I’ve watched more Sox baseball than Cubs and I can’t stand AL baseball.
pinetarQuote Reply
@ pinetar:
Yeah, if you’re not selling out a Yankees series when you’re in first place this late in the season you’re charging too much.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I saw a report last month that said their TV ratings were up 10% over last year and their radio ratings were up 25%.
EDIT: and Cubs TV ratings are down 11%
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20120618/BLOGS04/120619824/cubs-sox-tv-ratings-els-gives-boeing-a-boost-baseballs-most-hated-player
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
I posed this question, unbiased mind you and in a sincere tone, on my FB and I’m getting responses like “who cares about attendance, we’re in first place- so take that”.
I think that’s the sentiment from most fans, and it’s that bitterness about Sox fans that turns people off.
Mobile RodrigoQuote Reply
@ Mobile Rodrigo:
Oh definitely. Someone tweeted a link to this post and called it the “Most ridiculous bitter Cub fan article i’ve read in a while.” I’m simply asking why they don’t seem to like their first place team enough to want to watch them play one of the biggest games to happen on that side of town since the 2005 season.
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ WenningtonsGorillaCock:
Yeah, but where did the ratings start? The Sox could be up 10% and the Cubs down 10% and the Cubs could still be winning the ratings battle too. I’m not saying they are or aren’t, but just knowing up or down a certain percentage doesn’t tell us much. I would fucking hope their ratings are up.
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ Mobile Rodrigo:
It’s not just the fans. That whole org and even their TV and radio people exude a desperate bitterness.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Oh I could not agree more. Hawk, Bill Melton, KW, all of them.
Mobile RodrigoQuote Reply
I just can’t get past how hysterical this side of town would be if the Cubs were playing like the Sox.
The Ricketts would be able to afford their renovation simply by selling tickets to stand in line at the urinal troughs during a game.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Rays —> breaking bad
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/23/three-rays-minor-leaguers-suspended-for-meth/
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Aisle424 wrote:
I can’t seem to find any exact numbers. In last year’s Forbes ratings of the MLB teams’ relative value, it said that the White Sox had the 25th highest “average Nielsen rating in its regional sports network” and the Cubs were 24th. I don’t know what that translates to in terms of actual numbers of viewers, but it seems that it was relatively close. I don’t know if being up or down 10% makes a huge difference or not since there aren’t any numbers given, so maybe they simply swapped places on that list this year.
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
WE’LL GO WHEN WE FEEL LIKE GOING, WORRY BOUT YOUR FAGGY TEAM
Sox FansQuote Reply
@ Sox Fans:
(dying laughing)
GWQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
(dying laughing)
GBTSQuote Reply
Sox fans: They’ll show up to a Cubs blog, but not to watch their first-place team.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I highly doubt that was a real Sox fan. Too many correctly spelled words.
Aisle424Quote Reply
(dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
@ Sox Fans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIkhII_rEFs
GBTSQuote Reply
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
@ Aisle424:
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
You weren’t the least bit bitter in this article.
mb21Quote Reply
“Sox fans, you bitter?”
“Yerp. Bit him too.”
GBTSQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I think the tone was more bemusement and exasperation than bitterness.
Mobile RiceQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
I agree. I saw a game there in April of 2011 and the park outside is ugly and inside is worse. I have to admit I appreciated the roof being closed, because I’d have frozen otherwise. (It was probably 50 out–but I’ve been in the tropics a long time.) Plus, unless you have a car, it’s damn hard to get to. I was in town for a meeting and the cab ride cost as much as the ticket.
SVBQuote Reply
From the Cheater/Gaylord Perry article linked in the last post:
Winfield’s worst day ever is a not-so-bad day for Cubs hitters. Only 1 K? He obviously didn’t contribute to a -174 Rbat.
SVBQuote Reply
new shit: http://obstructedview.net/site/vote-for-our-2013-slogan.html
mb21Quote Reply
So I know it’s been said before, but Jack Daniels Honey is fucking awful. I had a little left in the liquor cabinet so decided to fill a flask with it to go camping this weekend. It isn’t good straight, it isn’t good chilled, and it is even shitty mixed with a coke. It leaves a gross syrupy fake honey aftertaste. I’m not one to throw away alcohol, no matter how bad, but I may have to do it. Has anyone found a good use for it, other than pranking someone?
WaLiQuote Reply
Maybe there aren’t that many Sox fans?
BTQuote Reply