MESA, Ariz. — Theo Epstein laid down the law at the Cubs Convention, stating firmly the organization would no longer tolerate players who enjoy the nightlife at the expense of getting a good night's sleep.
"It's been a factor in ruining some careers," the team president said. "And I'm sure it's been an impediment to the Cubs in winning. … The approach we're going to have is the opposite of laissez faire. We're not just going to say, 'Oh, that's the way it is. This is Chicago. Boys will be boys. I'm sure they're going to get enough sleep and I'm sure they'll show up the next day ready to play.'
"That's a failure on the organization's part. We have to take a very proactive approach in setting a high standard." – Chicago Tribune
This sounds all awesome and stuff. Laying down the law. That sounds tough. But what the hell can the Cubs do? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Think about it. Every employer would prefer their employees get a good night sleep. People are more productive when they do. It's not like the past management group or groups didn't want this to happen. They just realized talking tough with the media doesn't accomplish anything.
What are the Cubs going to do if Matt Garza goes out on the town the night before he starts? He shows up to work hungover like many Americans do. What are they going to do? Release him? Trade him on the spot? Of course not. They're going to send him to the mound to pitch because he gives the Cubs a better chance of winning.
What if Starlin Castro stays out too late? Are they going to release him? No. Will they trade him? No. They may talk tough with him, but there's not a damn thing they can do. If Starlin Castro and Matt Garza and any other player want to go out and get drunk they will do so because the Cubs can't do jack shit about it. Nor should they.
It's not the Cubs business what these guys do on their own time. Anyway, it sounds tough and all. It's a great thing to say. I'm sure past ownership and management said the same thing. I'm sure this message will have the same impact as the ones before it. Some will listen. Some won't. And there's not a damn thing the Cubs can do about it.
Comments
I started this the other day and never finished it. So I added a few sentences and posted it since we needed a new thread. Deal with it.
mb21Quote Reply
At least it ended with a realistic evaluation of their chances. Yeah, the rest was pretty much garbage.
joshQuote Reply
Peter Gammons @pgammo Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
one international scouting director sees Cuban power bat Jorge Soler getting $27M from the Cubs.
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ josh:Love this comment:
ACTQuote Reply
So Jay Jackson ended up doing okay. Was Campana out of position on the double by Hosmer or was it just hit really really hard?
I agree that there’s not much the Cubs can do about the partying thing, but at least they put an expectation out there to appease various people. I guess life will go on. The opposing team is probably just as hung over as the Cubs are anyway.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
That’s essentially the same rumor from like a month ago before the Cubs denied it.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Castro ——> hitting .300
ACTQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I can’t remember now. Was that an error maybe?
joshQuote Reply
Castro ————-> first stolen base
ACTQuote Reply
No, the error was the one before. Hosmer hit one in the gap, I think.
joshQuote Reply
Aggressive baserunning continues.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Don’t tell me what to do with it.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ josh:
Campana is not as fast as I thought he was.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ ACT:
I don’t think it was a stolen base, was it? I thought LaHair hit it.
joshQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Any other CF and it would have been an ITP home run.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
He stole second after hitting a single. Then he got thrown out at third on LaHair’s single.
ACTQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Yea i would be shocked if he isnt a cub.. Bubles thinks cubs did some shady shit. But then distanced themselves for good reason
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Castro ——-> TOOTBLAN
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
@ ACT:
I figure Castro did the right thing in first retreating to 2B, then took off when The Most Exciting Player In Baseball threw to 1B. Just didn’t make it.
I don’t actually know for sure as I can’t see the play.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ ACT:
OK, Keith said he got thrown out “trying to go from 1st to 3rd.” Sigh. Keith is the (2nd) worst (it’s Judd).
joshQuote Reply
1. My 2011 At Bat app still works
2. The audio playback experience has improved greatly. I mean it was pretty good last year, but now there is no buffering – you press play and it starts playing. (Maybe that will change when the regular season starts and there’s actually a lot of traffic on their site)
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
What kind of shady shit do you think the Cubs did? Why do you think that?
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Apparently Tony Campana just did something awesome.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
amidestrous.
Another neologism by Keith Moreland
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Doubled Francouer off first after catching a fly ball? Keith was narrating it, so it may well have been that Campana got doubled off second after an in field check swing by Steve Clevenger.
joshQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
Almost as good as the original Three Stooges character “Shrimp” that he discussed earlier.
joshQuote Reply
(dying laughing) Yuni is still in baseball!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Buntfest pays off! (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
Rice CubeQuote Reply
What about docking the player’s pay for excessive partying? Probably wouldn’t fly with the player’s union, right? They could bench them, I guess. It does seem more likely to create resentment than production.
joshQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
I think they agreed to a contract with a cuban national
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Surely not, right? They had to know he was not yet a free agent, officially. That would have to be a pretty bone-headed thing to do. I tend to think it was just mis-reported.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
Yeah, they can’t flat out tell the players NOT to go out, but they can encourage them to use their best judgment. That’s about all they can do. In the real world as long as you are in the office between 9 to 5 the supervisor can’t do anything to you. I don’t think they can do a concrete mandate because as you said, it would foster resentment and most players wouldn’t want to play for the Cubs anymore, but they can do some “coaxing” and explain why it is that getting only four hours of sleep is bad for your baseball performance.
Josh Vitters seems capable of fielding grounders to first base.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
I know some pro sports contracts delve into the personal a little more than your average 9-to-5, like how some guys have “no pickup basketball games” or “no motorcycles” in their contract. So teams have a little more say than your average employee, but probably not that much.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
My own contract has some personal things in it, like “Stop with the show tunes!” and “Can you please shower?” Maybe that was my annual review. I forget.
joshQuote Reply
Vitters drew a walk.
ACTQuote Reply
Who is this guy wearing Josh Vitters’ jersey and how is he taking so many bases on balls?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
And he stole a base!
ACTQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Oooh, another TOOTBLAN.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
Don’t tell me what to do
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
Don’t tell me to read every word before posting
BerseliusQuote Reply
bubblesdachimp wrote:
Do you mean something else, like they agreed to a contract with an amateur player?
(Or, have all the Cubans in MLB denounced their citizenship?)
Again, why do you think this? It’s a pretty big thing to say without any, you know, reason. Are you just trolling? If so, you got me.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
The way I understand it is that Soler was still trying to get residency in the DR (or wherever he’s at) and until he does, the MLB cannot officially declare him a free agent and any transaction involving him would result in penalties. So if the Cubs had an agreement in place they had to keep it super-hush-hush. Which is why the original rumor was quashed so quickly and forcefully.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Good to see our ads are targeting our core readers:
Aisle424Quote Reply
bubblesdachimp wrote:
I hope the Cubs next deal is with Hebrew National.
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Yeah, he hasn’t yet been declared a free agent, or wasn’t at that time. Surely, this was just mis-reported. But he already defected, so I don’t know if it’s accurate to call him a “Cuban National.”
joshQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
We need to ban RC for a week
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
Some of us like the Giants. Except when they’re being mean to the A’s.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
Funsucker.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
What prompted the original rumor and bubbs’ belief? The fact that the Cubs said they were interested in the guy?
In that case, I think the Cubs are going to trade Soriano.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
GBTSQuote Reply
josh wrote:
Gross.
Also, defecting doesn’t mean giving up your original nationality.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
BerseliusQuote Reply
maybe “cuban resident” is the terminology bubbs was looking for, assuming there’s a law against signing a contract with someone in Cuba
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
I thought of that later. Well, then that makes Bubble’s comment silly.
joshQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
Al is just there as an arbitrator to control the thermostat.
cdw*Quote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
It might have been a misreport. The Cubs are so airtight on rumors these days that it makes no sense for them to have something that could potentially screw them leak like that.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ cdw*:
He’s curious as to who really runs the White House.
GBTSQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
We just need to see what Nick Cafardo has to say
BerseliusQuote Reply
McNutt in to pitch
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ GBTS:
Today is finally the day he can argue with a Sox fan.
cdw*Quote Reply
I don’t know all the rules RE Cuba, but all the Cubans end up having to establish residency elsewhere, as far as I know.
joshQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
Not trolling at all. That saturday and Sunday a few weeks ago you had a lot of really samrt connected people reporting a very specific number and that it was pretty much done.
Then all of a sudden it wasnt done? Why? Cause the cubs are dumb but not dumb enough to agree to terms with a Cuban national who hasnt been made a free agent yet OR unlocked by the US federal government.
Lets just say when he signs he signs for 27 million… Will that just be a coincidence? I think not. It more than likely means that the Cubs had a deal reached but had to pretend like nothing was in place
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
What’s the rule say about working with a dude’s agent while his residency is still pending? I really don’t know the ins and outs of international contract signings. Obviously he couldn’t be signed yet b/c he wasn’t a free agent. Whatever the media reported, they either didn’t know that or got it wrong. Or the Cubs worked out a deal with dude’s agent already. That’s not exactly equivalent to “signing” a person.
joshQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Is there a rule against *speaking* to foreign nationals?
BerseliusQuote Reply
Radar gun says McNutt is touching 94 mph.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Fair enough.
I guess I still object to “Shady”.
There’s nothing unusual about a deal being in place before it’s official, and needing to deny it because of legal/other protocol.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ josh:
I think talking contract is highly not acceptable. From what i have gained.
@ Berselius:
He is different since he is Cuban is my understanding.
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
Fair enough. My thought process is if they arent allowed to discuss numbers and they discussed numbers (which appears to have happened) then that is shady
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Suburban kid wrote:
They also threatened to kill his mother if he didn’t sign with them.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Hence my opinion
Kevin Goldstein @Kevin_Goldstein Reply Retweet Favorite · Open
Officially, no. OFFICIALLY. RT @jonf1220: @Kevin_Goldstein Are the teams allowed to discuss parameters with Solers agent?
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ Aisle424:
Epstein 2012
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Um, yeah.
SK thinks bubbles is failing to read between the lines.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
What is Bubbs missing?
Everyone was done for a price of about 27 million. Then it wasnt done?
Why casue the cubs realized they were being shady and said it wasnt done
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Goldstein said teams are allowed to discuss parameters with Soler’s agent unofficially.
So it would only be a shady action if they DIDN’T deny a deal was in place.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Jeff Beliveau must really like Iowa
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
I think Beliveau needs to record an out. If only to make his ERA drop from infinity.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
@ Rice Cube:
Mission accomplished!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Rice Cube wrote:
No idea, but I do know that Darwin Barney was in the right position.
mb21Quote Reply
BenBadler Ben Badler
Nobody can negotiate until he’s a FA. Still needs residency. RT @jonf1220 Are the cubs allowed to discuss parameters with Soler’s agent?
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
The leak could have just been his offer. Why wouldn’t the Cubs have known he wasn’t a free agent. Like they got a deal completely in place then someone came in and reminded them he’s not a free agent? That seems not only unlikely, but probably something that would warrant investigation. Since no one else in the world but Bubbles is worried about it, I’m inclined to think that it’s not a big deal.
joshQuote Reply
@ josh:
Im not worried about it at all. I jsut think the cubs did something they probably should not have.
And why would the Cubs release the #?
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Wow, that “Cubs Win” song was awful.
I am noticing a trend. So far whent he Cubs score more runs than their opponents they win. I hope this continues.
WaLiQuote Reply
Not that building a case based on rumor and heresay isn’t fun, but this is kind of dumb.
joshQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
Numbers get leaked. “The Cubs” wouldn’t have. But a secretary? who the fuck knows?
joshQuote Reply
WenningtonsGorillaCock wrote:
The fuckin’ Cubs and their baserunning mistakes. I think 9 random people who read this site could run the bases better than they do. Sveum should just tell them to stand with their foot on the base and never advance more than one base. Not even on home runs.
mb21Quote Reply
My intense hatred of Minute Maid’s stupid outfield made it on yahoo: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/10-best-things-being-astros-fan-164421963.html
OV ——-> famous!
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I don’t mind them being aggressive in Spring Training, and then figuring out who can actually be successful being aggressive. Castro I don’t think can, but maybe Stewart, Barney, guys like that could (MAYBE).
joshQuote Reply
josh wrote:
Agreed. Theo isn’t an idiot. He’s not going to break any rules. He might stretch some, but this was just mis-reported.
mb21Quote Reply
@ josh:
I would guess they could only do that if it’s in a contract and I can’t imagine any player is going to sign a contract that doesn’t allow him to party. I don’t even party, but I wouldn’t be signing a contract that told me I couldn’t. Fuck that shit.
mb21Quote Reply
@ mb21:
I take it you’re Captain Awesome?
http://thatssotaguchi.blogspot.com/2008/04/worst-ballpark-in-bigs.html
joshQuote Reply
mb21 wrote:
I don’t know about that, most of us are addicts and/or nerds.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ mb21:
I love that a link to OV from a major site is nothing more than the word “it” hyperlinked. (dying laughing) I guess that’s pretty appropriate.
MishQuote Reply
WaLi wrote:
.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
Heh. I’m an addict, raging libertarian, dual citizen, nit-picking pedant, and nerd. I am not Mel Gibson’s Catholic Cock.
MishQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
To be fair though, I can’t think of one poster who doesn’t fall under one of those categories.
MishQuote Reply
Oh, “duel” citizen? What is this I don’t even
MishQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
It was only reported in some Dominican newspaper. I’d be shocked to learn there was ever a deal in place at that time. Based on other teams involvement after that article was published I’d bet quite a bit of money that no deal was in place at that time.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Mish:
YDREW
Suburban kidQuote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
That’s not true. They can discuss numbers. The players you can’t discuss numbers with are, for example, Albert Pujols this past offseason until 10 or 15 days after the World Series. The team the free agent was on gets an exclusive negotiating window. Other teams can express interest, but are prohibited from talking money. There are no such rules regarding international free agents.
I won’t be surprised if he signs for the same silly amount as was reported. That happens quite often. We’ll hear about a team willing to spend $27 million over 3 years for some free agent outfielder and then 5 weeks later they finally sign a contract.
mb21Quote Reply
@ bubblesdachimp:
I don’t believe that’s accurate. I’ll look into it because I’ve never heard such a thing. Maybe it has to do with him not yet being a free agent. I don’t know. I guess I don’t care.
mb21Quote Reply
bubblesdachimp wrote:
How do you know the Cubs released it? To my knowledge the Cubs haven’t said jack shit about Soler. His agent released that number just as agents do it here for free agents.
mb21Quote Reply
If a contract is learned to have been signed when it was not OK to sign the contract, the contract is void. There is no way in hell the Cubs are going to take a chance of that happening. If the rules state they can’t discuss numbers, the Cubs and his agent haven’t discussed numbers. Imagine signing this guy and it turns out he’s awesome. Next year MLB learns the Cubs signed him when they were not able to. He’s a free agent. No way the Cubs would risk that.
mb21Quote Reply
Every report links back to Peter Gammons’ Twitter account so far unless I missed something.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I think it’s from some CBS report that references one international scout thinking that Soler will sign with the Cubs for $27 million. That’s it.
mb21Quote Reply
I won’t believe it until we get confirmation from the purple sweatshirt guy.
Aisle424Quote Reply
@ mb21:
Yeah, this stuff is all bullshit. I didn’t see a single MLBTR rumor about the A’s prior to them signing Cespedes. It’s just speculation, heresay, and good old-fashioned lies.
joshQuote Reply
It’s fun to speculate about, but to try to read a conspiracy into it without a single shred of inside knowledge is just pointless.
joshQuote Reply
MB, I didn’t realize you were a food writer in Grand Forks
http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/231419/
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
(dying laughing)
Certainly more attractive than TGIFriday’s.
mb21Quote Reply
Jamie Moyer pitched today. He pitched 2 scoreless innings against the Giants. It will be interesting to see how he fares when he has to face actual Major League hitters.
ACTQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
Makes sense that a replacement level restaurant in the big leagues would be a superstar worth queuing for out in one of those states that only has minor league sports. No offense to any rubes reading this.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Calcaterra talks a bit about access and media bias
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/08/scenes-from-spring-training-we-hate-your-favorite-team/
BerseliusQuote Reply
I this is the last guy I would have thought would be advocating for legalizing marijuana
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/08/us/pat-robertson-backs-legalizing-marijuana.html?_r=1&hp
BerseliusQuote Reply
@ Suburban kid:
Yeah it’s amazing how many people pile into replacement level restaurants in small towns. Where I used to live (Decatur) Olive Garden, Applebees, Red Lobster, etc. were always packed. I think I ate at the Olive Garden only once and it wasn’t my choice. Luckily where I live now there are no chain restaurants. It’s a nice change.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ Berselius:
I know some very conservative people who think marijuana should be legal.
ACTQuote Reply
@ WaLi:
I guess it is because these chain restaraunts are associated with bigger cities so they are considered fancy while still being reasonably priced.
WaLiQuote Reply
@ ACT:
Me too. I don’t know if it’s an issue that breaks along party lines or not overall, but based on the limited sample of people I have talked with it about over the years it doesn’t. That doesn’t mean that overall it does break more along party lines. It just hasn’t with the people I’ve known.
mb21Quote Reply
@ Berselius:
Indeed.
But hardliners sometimes soften when they get old and gain deeper perspectives on things.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Picture of face. Picture of arrow. Picture of something palm related.
http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/daily-facepalm-3-8-2012-st-cubs-not-entirely-depressing.html
AndCountingQuote Reply
@ mb21:
Gallup says most conservatives are against it, but most liberals are for it. http://www.gallup.com/poll/150149/record-high-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx
Of course it’s nowhere near a complete consensus in either case. People have far more diverse and unconventional views than are represented in politicians.
ACTQuote Reply