Our Ballots for the OV HOF Vote Explained

In Commentary And Analysis by aisle424184 Comments

We held our own balloting a few weeks ago where we pretended that we were the BBWAA and were allowed to vote for the Hall of Fame.  We elected Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Frank Thomas, and Mike Piazza (the rest of the results can be found here).

Originally we planned to also publish and explain our ballots, but then we never did that and it kind of fell off the radar.

Since today is the official Hall of Fame announcement, I figured this would be a good time to share a couple of our ballots with you all. 

Myles

It really is incredible how many great players I’m NOT voting for. In fact, I can make a pretty great list of 10 players that I didn’t vote for. In fact, here is that list:

11. Jeff Kent
12. Craig Biggio
13. Jeff Bagwell
14. Mike Mussina
15. Curt Schilling
16. Alan Trammell
17. Tom Glavine
18. Rafael Palmeiro
19. Moises Alou
20. Jack Morris

Honestly, the list where I’d go from yes to no is at 17. That’s 7 people that I’d vote for that just didn’t make the cut for me.

Here’s my list.
10. Larry Walker
From 1994 to 2004, this was Larry Walker’s line: .331/.422/.614, 288 HR, 348 2B, 47 3B, 146 OPS+.  I know it was the height of Coors’ power, but that’s still an incredible feat. Here’s two other things: .278/.370/.495 was his slash away from home, and his “most similar” career was the inimitable Duke Snider. Oh, also career .400 OBP, exactly. That’s good enough for me!

9. Edgar Martinez
I get it. He’s a DH (though he could play 1B as well as Prince Fielder could). On the other hand, he’s the best DH to ever play the game. If the MLB wants the DH as a position, it should be represented in the Hall of Fame. If that’s the case, you have to have Edgar Martinez in there.  Oh yeah, career .418 OBP, and a career trinity line of .312/.418/.515. I consider anyone with over 7500 PA and a .300/.400/.500 line HOF worthy, and he crushes it in that respect. Just take a guess on how many people qualify using that metric. The answer: 17.

8. Tim Raines
He stole 808 bases. He was absolutely feared on the basepaths, maybe unlike anyone else ever (obvious caveat of Ricky here). If you want to nitpick and call Raines an accumulator, I’d agree with you just a bit; he was never really even close to being the best player in any given year or era. However, I think it is just as important to me that for almost 20 years, he was better than average, and many years much, much better.

7. Sammy Sosa
It’s the Hall of Fame. There aren’t a whole lot of baseball players more famous than Sammy Sosa. He and McGwire more-or-less saved baseball during the great Home Run Race, and I don’t give any shits about his corked bat or alleged steroid usage. His 1998 to 2002 is one of the great all-time 5-year peaks (.306/.397/.649, 292 HR, 705 RBI); he led the league in total bases 3 out of 4 years. He was a poor defender, and independent of history I think he’s barely on the outside looking in; however, his duel with McGwire (and the fact that he still has the most 60+ HR seasons ever) pushes him solidly into “HOF” territory for me.

6. Mark McGwire
Take everything I said about Sammy Sosa and just paste it here. He even has a more-or-less identical 5 year peak (.287/.438/.702, 284 HR, 620 RBI, in only 698 games). It’s a shame that the fans were robbed of his age-29 and age-30 seasons to injury; otherwise, you could realistically add 90 home runs to his total, which would put him in the 670 or so stratosphere. He’d be a great candidate for the Hall independent of his place in history, which makes him an inner-circle type in my eyes.

5. Mike Piazza
If we are conservative, Piazza is the best hitting catcher in the history of baseball (and it’s not even close). You can make the case that he’s the best catcher ever. This is a no-brainer. The fact that someone could axe him on the case of bacne is hilarious if it wasn’t so fucking sad. There are 9 catcher-seasons with an OPS over 1.000. Piazza has 3 of them, and is the only person with more than 1. It also wasn’t like Piazza was a slouch defensively. He wasn’t great, but he wasn’t awful, either.  He led the league in offensive WAR twice. As a CATCHER. That’s fucking incredible.

4. Frank Thomas
With the exception of Barry Bonds, Frank Thomas is the best hitter I’ve ever been alive to see. It’s that simple. First things first, he has the golden trinity slash of .301/.419/.555. He has 270 more career walks than strikeouts. He has 521 HR despite never hitting more than 43 in a season. In a time where everyone was accused of steroids, Thomas was never once even mentioned as a user. He led the league in walks as a 23, 24, 26, and 27 year old. He had an OBP over .420 his first 8 years in baseball. He could have retired in 2000, after 10 years in baseball, and owned a line of .321/.440/.579, 344 HR, 1183 RBI, 169 OPS+. He would have been a no-doubt HOF had he retired then, at 32. He was never as healthy or dominant as he was after his injury in 2001 (though of course, he still had a .273/.387/.528 from that point on, good for an OPS+ of 136), but it didn’t matter. The Big Hurt is the best player in Chicago history.

He was also the worst defensive 1B probably ever.

3. Greg Maddux
I consider Maddux a better player than Thomas, but since so many of his years took place in Atlanta, it’s not fair to give Maddux the nod there. I could write pages on Greg Maddux, but I’ll instead just favorite stat of his.

Maddux retired as the only player ever to have over 3000 strikeouts and fewer than 1000 walks. He had…999 walks for his entire career. He ended his career with 3 starts as a Dodger, and walked no one in each of those starts to preserve that streak.  

2. Roger Clemens

He’s a better pitcher than anyone I’ve ever seen in my whole life with the exception of Pedro Martinez. He won 7 Cy Youngs, a feat never before accomplished and likely never repeated. He has over 100 WARP for his career, so he’s an aggregator AND a peak guy (if you win 7 Cy Youngs, you’ve got a peak in there somewhere). When it comes down to it, the 1997 season had 2 of the best pitcher seasons of all time (Martinez and Clemens), and Clemens’ season was probably even better than Martinez’. Steroids or not, Clemens won Cy Youngs 18 years apart and an MVP for good measure. He finished second once and third twice. Jesus, how can he not be in?

1. Barry Bonds

Ser Barrold of House Bonds is the greatest player of all time.  What more is there to say?

 

Aisle 424

Last year I voted for Bonds, Clemens, Piazza, Sosa, Bagwell, Biggio, Raines, Trammell, Schilling and Palmeiro. Since I believe that once you believe someone is a Hall of Famer, you should always believe he is a Hall of Famer, I should have voted for all 10 of those guys again, since none of them got in last year. BUT, since we can only vote for 10 and the ballot now included more names that are ALSO Hall of Fame worthy in my opinion, some cuts had to be made.

First off, of the new eligible players, I would have liked to have voted for Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, and Kent. So now I have 14 people for 10 slots.

As far as I'm concerned, Bonds, Clemens, and Piazza are locked from last year, with no-brainers Greg Maddux and Frank Thomas joining them. So that's 5.

I believe that Raines and Trammell should have been in long ago, so I'm sticking with them. That's 7. 

Biggio was actually elected by us last year and he has 7 Hall of Famers in his Top Ten similarity scores on B-Ref. He stays. That's 8.

So now we're down to Sosa, Schilling, Palmeiro, Bagwell, Glavine, and Kent with 2 slots left. Of those names, Tom Glavine stands out more to me with 7 Top 3 finishes in the Cy Young, with 2 wins, 305 career victories (shut up, it's still impressive), and 4 Hall of Famers in his top similarity scores plus Randy Johnson. He's in. That's 9.

Of the guys left, I went with Sosa. I loved watching Sammy play and I don't care how he achieved what he achieved in the era in which he achieved it. It was fantastic. So I voted for Sammy more with my heart, but if you need concrete reasons, he hit 609 HRs. He hit 60+ HRs in three separate seasons. He finished in the Top 10 in MVP voting 7 times and won it once. His top similarity scores include: Jim Thome, Mike Schmidt, Reggie Jackson, Ken Griffey Jr., Harmon Killebrew, Eddie Mathews, Mickey Mantle, Willie Stargell, Gary Sheffield, and Willie McCovey.

I'm not proud of leaving off the rest and I didn't even consider guys like Edgar Martinez, Larry Walker, or Mark McGwire this year which is a crime. But this is what the BBWAA has left us with.

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Comments

  1. SVB

    @ Berselius:
    Maybe I just misunderstood your point in the last thread, B. I took it to be something close to “people who are criticizing Sosa today are just being hypocritical because they all loved him before 2004.” And my response was supposed to convey, “It’s OK for people to change their opinion of someone/something when they get more information, but they should be honest about their response and admit it was a change of opinion and not pretend otherwise.”

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  2. Berselius

    @ SVB:

    That’s a totally fair take. I’m also not trying to say that everyone ragging on Sosa these days is a hypocrite, though a definite minority of fans have been in the “I never liked him” camp. I don’t really have an issue with people who lost respect for Sosa, I just think the level of hatred for him is insane, and I think that his peak (talent and fame-wise) was so huge that it’s strange that it’s all forgotten these days. Sosa’s the reason I (and many others) am the Cubs fan I am today.

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  4. EnricoPallazzo

    SVB wrote:

    So whether the corked bat, walk out, clubhouse presence, etc. was a smear campaign or not, I’m inclined to think it was based on truth because Sammy’s teammates didn’t back him up.

    yeah true, but it kind of seemed like there were some whiny bitches on that team. see: kent mercker, moises alou. frankly that whole team seemed ready to kill each other by the end of 2004 (although that is just my recollection).

    while it sucks that no one stood up for sosa at the end of the season, i could see it being due to everyone else wanting to get the fuck out of dodge as much as i could see it being due to the fact that sosa was a complete asshole. probably a little of both.

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  6. Mucker

    Mucker wrote:

    frankly that whole team seemed ready to kill each other by the end of 2004 (although that is just my recollection).

    I don’t know why….but that entire 2004 season I blame on Latroy Hawkins. But I don’t even know why I do. I can’t even remember why I hated him so much but it’s the one name that jumps out to me when I think of the 2004 Cubs and how much I hated him.

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  15. dmick89

    @ SVB:
    You and I disagree about this, but I believe people are upset at Sammy because of they felt duped. They believed what was happening, loved Sosa so much and when the bubble burst, well, they had to take out their misplaced disappointment and aim it at him.

    FWIW, I also think the Braun comp is pretty terrible too. Braun blamed a completely innocent person for what happened. It’s a shitty thing to do for anyone and those who do it generally are not good people. Sosa did no such thing. In all likelihood the man took steroids, but did so for two reasons: to win games and to get paid. Perhaps there was a third reason: pressure from his bosses to do so. Maybe even pressure in the way of them telling him he should take steroids. Sosa never blamed anyone. Never cut down an innocent man in the way Braun did and wanted to win games.

    A better comp is Mark McGwire. The same guy who is now a hitting coach for one of the most storied franchises in sports. Both essentially did the same thing in front of Congress. Both more than likely took PEDs for a variety of reasons. Only one has been welcomed back. Is it because Sosa is a minority? That’s likely a factor to some extent even if people want to dismiss it. I certainly don’t find it odd that of two men who did the same thing that the white man is more easily forgiven.

    When we see McGwire these days on tv we don’t even think steroids. It’s barely mentioned. Sosa? Not so.

    There is a racial component here. There’s no other explanation.

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  16. Suburban kid

    @ Rice Cube:
    Sickels wrote:

    2) Kris Bryant, 3B, Grade A: Should be a devastating power hitter, perhaps something like Ryan Braun crossed with Troy Glaus.

    What does that even mean? If he means “somewhere between Ryan Braun and Tory Glaus”, then say that. If he actually meant “crossed with” then I don’t get it, unless there are different “styles” of power hitting or some shit.

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  18. Suburban kid

    @ dmick89:
    Didn’t McGwire come clean in some very mealy-mouthed way, in order to be welcomed back by the Sports Media (and as a result, by the Cardinals?).

    Not dismissing your point about race, but it’s different because:

    There’s more proof against McGwire, forcing him to admit he did wrong (and America loves an apology, even if it took 10 years to get)

    There’s less proof against Sosa. This enables him to sidestep the question, but this just leaves a perpetual cloud over him. In the meantime, fans make up their own mind.

    All that said, I don’t think Sosa owes any apology to the Cubs to be “welcomed back”, although it used to seem like the organization felt that way.

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  19. dmick89

    @ Suburban kid:
    Yeah, McGwire made some public apology after being hired by the Cardinals and sure, it would help if Sosa did the same thing. However, the Cardinals took the first step and the Cubs aren’t willing to do so. The fans were open about it at the time and the Cubs fans don’t seem to be open about it for the most part.

    But yeah, there are some differences, but in terms of what they each did, they’re best comparable to one another. They likely took the same things, accomplished almost the same thing in terms of performance and their actions in front of Congress were quite similar. Furthermore, McGwire seems like a decent guy and so does Sosa. I just take offense in comparing Sosa to someone who has done awful shit (Gibson especially).

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  20. dmick89

    Mostly though, I have a problem with the hatred or even disrespect because many, many other people have done shit worse than Sosa. As I said, I know I have. I also believe the other things I’ve done in my life should be considered before anyone makes a judgment about what kind of person I am. My hope is that those positive things I’ve done outweigh the negative ones. But those negative ones do exist and if judged solely on them, I am a very bad person. A piece of shit.

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  21. Edwin

    @ Suburban kid:

    Maybe I’m being overly cynical, but it seems like most baseball fans want an apology simply so they can scream “Not Good Enough!” and go on bashing the player anyways. If fans seem to mellow out about stuff, it seems more to do with time than anything else. Remember when Miguel Cabrera had a drinking problem and his wife called the police afraid for her life? He hit a couple homers the next day, and now fans love him in Detroit.

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  23. Suburban kid

    Although recent Ricketts rumblings sound like they’d like to welcome him back but are hesitant because

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  26. Andrew

    I like that Armando Benitez, Jacque Jones, JT Snow and Eric Gagne got votes. I’d be interested in who else those guys voted for. If they voted for 9 other qualified guys and then just threw a vote to a hometown likable guy, then I guess that’s fine, but this is a genuinely crowded ballot and they should only vote for real HOFers. Curious though that only one guy voted for Kenny Rogers. He put up 46.8 WAR. That’s not great but if people are throwing away votes, why throw them to people that werent even great at their best like Jacque Jones and JT Snow instead of very good players like Kenny Rogers. Or just vote for the top ten players on the ballot like you should. Ray Durham has 30 WAR but 0 votes. These are the real snubs.

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  27. Rizzo the Rat

    I’d have taken Mussina or Schilling over Glavine personally, but Tom did have all that postseason experience in his favor (then again, Curt was brilliant in the post-season and Moose was no slouch, either).

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  29. SVB

    dmick89 wrote:

    The difference between the Sosa history and the McGwire history, aside from Mac’s circuitous apology, is that we don’t have any evidence of Mac corking his bat, walking out of the team, etc. and we have lots of folks from inside the Cardinal clubhouse backing him up, which is absent for Sosa. We actually have more evidence for him using PEDs than Sosa. One could dismiss Mac’s and Sosa’s PED behavior as “everyone was doing it” but they can’t do that with the other slights against Sosa. I guess Mac is a decent comp because the “sins” were mostly similar. He lost respect too. That he has built his back may partly be because of race. But as SK said, the Cardinals and LaRussa did him a solid in rehabbing his rep.

    I really really wasn’t trying to insinuate that Sosa was an evil or shitty guy like Gibson or Braun, only to say that celebrities can be very popular until more details come out about them. I should have just said “It happens all the time” and let others fill in the comps, I guess, instead of picking more extreme examples like Gibson or Braun.

    I agree that in all those cases, the public feels duped. Fans are fans because of a public image cultivated by the celebrity. Most celebrities that have crappy public images don’t really have large fan bases, right? How about the DT for the Lions–Suh? He’s a jackass right? Is his fanbase as large and adoring as the most popular DT/DE in the NFL? (Who would be, _____?) I doubt it. But if the most popular guy turned out to be skipping practices for no obvious cause, I bet his popularity would plummet.

    (Aside: the Congress-interpreter thing I totally discount. Remember I lived in a Spanish speaking place for a long time. In the same situation but in Spanish, I would absolutely have asked for an interpreter, a professional legal system interpreter, even though I speak passable Spanish. It looked odd to the US mono-lingual public, that was a very smart thing to do, IMO.)

    I have little doubt that there is a racial component to some of the reaction to Sosa. Not sure how much, but if you could measure the difference in response to Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds, I’d guess that would be about the same relative difference as the response between Mac and Sosa. Seems to me that Bonds takes more shit than Clemens, but Clemens is still getting a lot of crap.

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  31. koboldekobold

    I don’t see why more people aren’t on Mussina, I would also take him before Glavine. I certainly wouldn’t have guessed a difference of 71% in the vote totals they received. I can’t wrap my mind around the fact that Jacque Jones got a vote.

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  32. SVB

    So if you were tracking the HOF gizmo at BTF, the last week saw slow declines in % for most of the players on the ballot (Biggio, Piazza, Mattingly). Seems that the folks who don’t publicize their ballots also vote for fewer players, because the average number/ballot dropped from like 9.3 a week ago to 8.4 today. Up til today, we’d only heard of one no-vote for Maddux, but there were 16.

    Perhaps those that don’t publicize their ballots are also not really active writers anymore (and thus no outlet and a more skewed sense of bball history) like the guy on MLB radio about 5:00 today that had a vote, but was now an official scorer and not a writer, except for biographies. He voted for Mattingly, but not Biggio, because Mattingly was “the player in the game for a few years. To which MLB radio guy said, so was Jeff Kent, why didn’t you vote for him?

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  33. SVB

    Rice Cube wrote:

    Sickels’ top 20 for the Cubs:
    Overall, while the system needs additional pitching, the Cubs under Theo Epstein and Jed Hoyer have made it very clear that they’ll invest heavy funds in farm development, targeting a mixture of high-ceiling and high-floor talent in the draft while sparing no expense on the international front. They need more time, but it will work.

    As I was reading the list, I noted how many of the guys came from recent trades. Based on that, THoyer look like they are really doing a good job in personnel management.

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  34. JimL

    @ Rizzo the Rat:

    Heh. Just read the Fangraphs piece, and it said pretty much all the things I said. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/tom-glavine-who-was-differently-gifted/

    Great article.

    While reading that article I could not help but think of Travis Wood and how he is similar in that he is a pitcher who consistently outpitches his own peripherals by how he pitches and looks at game situations. No I am not saying that Travis Wood is as good as Tom Glavine, I am just saying that there are reasons to think Wood’s recent success could continue and are not a fluke.

    On the flipside, Shark might be considered the anti-Glavine. A pitcher who has great peripherals but cannot seem to find the consistent success to match it.

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  35. dmick89

    SVB wrote:

    walking out of the team, etc.

    This should really be amended because Sosa didn’t technically walk out on his team as SK pointed out. He left a few innings early in a game he was not going to play. It was the final game of a disappointing season. We only say “walked out on team” because that was the narrative that was delivered by Sullivan, Whittenmeyer and others. The guy left early on the final day of school and it was a day in which he didn’t have any classes scheduled. That’s really what happened.

    The Cubs players, like the fans, found Sosa an easy target and because he was unlikable (not a criteria for a job in baseball when you were as talented as Sosa), it was that much easier. To be honest, the players say that shit that goes on in the clubhouse should keep it in the clubhouse so all these players who complained should really be the ones who look embarrassing. Corked bat? If someone can show me that this improves hitting or that we’ve cared about other players corking bats, I might be inclined to care about this, but we really can’t.

    Last thing I’ll say about this issue is this: there is exactly two players who played for the Cubs in my life who I feel gave it their all. Those players are Shawon Dunston and Sammy Sosa. I’m not saying they’re the only two players because, quite obviously, they weren’t. Of all the Cubs players I’ve seen in my life, I don’t think any one wanted the Cubs to win as much as Sosa did. I don’t remember a single player ever calling out ownership and telling them to spend more money. I’d not seen it before Sosa and I’ve seen no player do so since.

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  36. dmick89

    Want a player who walked out on his team? Ryne Sandberg. Cubs in last place yet again so he takes his ball and goes home in June. Nobody gives a shit.

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  37. EnricoPallazzo

    dmick89 wrote:

    Want a player who walked out on his team? Ryne Sandberg. Cubs in last place yet again so he takes his ball and goes home in June. Nobody gives a shit.

    yeah no one ever seems to remember this. fuck sandberg. then he screwed the team even worse when he suddenly decided he was going to come back.

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  38. dmick89

    @ EnricoPallazzo:
    I don’t mean to disparage Sandberg who I liked very much. It’s just not an issue and not should it be. If someone were to tell me Sosa left early frequently then I can see an issue, but he didn’t. Also, Sandberg literally quit on the team and Sosa left a few innings early in the final day of the season. Huge difference there and nobody cares Sandberg did it. I’d say it’s weird, but it really isn’t.

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  39. Berselius

    dmick89 wrote:

    Is it because Sosa is a minority? That’s likely a factor to some extent even if people want to dismiss it. I certainly don’t find it odd that of two men who did the same thing that the white man is more easily forgiven.

    Along the same lines, I’ve been kind of baffled at how Frank Thomas avoided the steroid brush that Jeff Bagwell did, especially since he and the media apparently had a prickly relationship while he played.

    (not to mention DH criticisms. He was so bad at 1b he might have well been a DH after adjustments, I’m guessing)

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  40. SVB

    @ dmick89:
    OK. I’m cool with that, my real point is in comment 1 anyway.

    Every so often I see some disparaging comments about Dunston and I really wonder why. Sure, throws could be adventures, but like you said, he gave it his all. 100.00001% (dying laughing).

    I guess when Ryno left, he was so terrible that no one really cared. Seemed to be doing the club a favor. Here’s my teardrop and a watch, don’t let the door hit on the ass….

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  41. SVB

    @ Berselius:
    Wasn’t it Frank Thomas that engineered the White Sox not submitting drug tests in an effort to have the threshold of refusals/+ tests met so that MLB would be forced to implement a program?

    That’s how.

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  43. EnricoPallazzo

    dmick89 wrote:

    @ EnricoPallazzo:
    I don’t mean to disparage Sandberg who I liked very much.

    that came off wrong…i liked sandberg and still do. but i thought that his departure (and subsequent return) was bullshit.
    Berselius wrote:

    Along the same lines, I’ve been kind of baffled at how Frank Thomas avoided the steroid brush that Jeff Bagwell did

    the only way that this makes sense to me is that frank thomas was vehement about never using PEDs and at the same time very critical of players that were using. i don’t recall bagwell doing this. but i could be wrong and either way it doesn’t really make sense.

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  44. Recalcitrant Blogger Nate

    That espn broadcast of the bcs game with the coaches is interesting. Kevin Sumlin sounds like the smartest guy in the room imo

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  45. josh

    @ EnricoPallazzo:
    I mean, Thomas was a big dude, but Bagwell looked like Schwarzenegger in the 70s.

    I don’t really care though.

    In terms of catchers, someone pointed out Johnny Bench, and I have to agree that Johnny was better overall than Mike, but Piazza was the better hitter, I think, careerwise.

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  46. josh

    also, as someone who is past 30 and is just recently getting weird body acne (in the summer) let me be the first to VEHEMENTLY deny using steroids.

    Of course, the fact that I look like this helps my case:

    [img]https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRGvPsl_ZGOaCm9JuX6o5F_-wyAWXMoB-wNZMRXHRnVr7YFeX81[/img]

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  47. Suburban kid

    koboldekobold wrote:

    I can’t wrap my mind around the fact that Jacque Jones got a vote.

    ISTR that Gordo Wittenmyer was always carrying Jacque’s jock, going back to his days on the Twins’ beat. I wonder if he made his ballot public.

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  48. Like You Care

    SVB wrote:

    I guess when Ryno left, he was so terrible that no one really cared.

    I wouldn’t say I was terrible. Maybe just done with baseball.

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  49. Like You Care

    Recalcitrant Blogger Nate wrote:

    That espn broadcast of the bcs game with the coaches is interesting. Kevin Sumlin sounds like the smartest guy in the room imo

    I love the All-22 look, and the coaches’ analysis had so much more depth. I did miss the crowd noise, though.

    And yeah, I felt like the other coaches were taking mental notes when Sumlin talked.

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  52. Berselius

    @ dmick89:

    Yeah, I guess that must be it. I remembered that white sox walkout but don’t remember seeing anything about Thomas being prominently involved with it. Still, for a base that’s as ill-informed as the BBWAA I think it’s a little surprising.

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  56. Like You Care

    @ Mucker:

    If you want to be an NFL head coach for 2-3 years, take the job in DAL and WAS. If you want to be an NFL head coach for more than 3 years, do NOT take either job.

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  58. Nate

    @ Mucker:

    Yea, as a skins fan, (though admittedly I don’t follow them that closely) I really only hope for new ownership. I do think RG3 can be awesome. Hopefully Gruden will run some uptempo spread. Would at least be fun to watch. I have no idea if Gruden will be a good coach or not. Most people seem to think not.

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  63. Mucker

    @ Like You Care:
    I just don’t know why he would want to go be the HC for a team where he has no authority. It’s pretty obvious who’s making the calls in DC and that’s the guy in all the Subway commercials.

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  64. Mucker

    @ Nate:
    Yeah, I live in the DC area and all my friends are Skins fans. That’s probably why I hate the Skins so much. But Snyder has run that franchise into the ground from a football standpoint.

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  66. Myles

    Mucker wrote:

    @ Like You Care:
    I just don’t know why he would want to go be the HC for a team where he has no authority. It’s pretty obvious who’s making the calls in DC and that’s the guy in all the Subway commercials.

    I knew that having Apolo Anton Ohno calling the plays in Washington was an awful idea.

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  68. SVB

    @ Mucker:
    You know who really should hate Snyder? Lions and Browns fans. As long as DC has Snyder and the Redskins nickname taking up all the air in the negative-NFL-media universe, the pressure is off William Clay Ford and whoever owns the Browns.

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  69. Suburban kid

    @ JonKneeV:
    I think the webmaster needs to analyze how far blog revenues have dropped since getting rid of faget points. Think of all the time I people would refresh the page to see if their comments racked any up. Page hits must be way down from previous norms, but they probably think it’s because the Cubs suck.

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  70. Myles

    Suburban kid wrote:

    @ JonKneeV:
    I think the webmaster needs to analyze how far blog revenues have dropped since getting rid of faget points. Think of all the time I people would refresh the page to see if their comments racked any up. Page hits must be way down from previous norms, but they probably think it’s because the Cubs suck.

    In the hidden OV elections, I’ve ran on an exclusively faget-point platform.

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  77. Like You Care

    I went back and watched the SF/GB game and GB absolutely must replace Evan Deitrich-Smith. He is the worst holding offender I’ve seen because gets beat like an Appalachian stepchild.

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  80. Edwin

    @ Rice Cube:

    I get the whole “voting is a privalege” idea, but the BBWAA loses a lot of credibility when they allow voters who turn in blank voting cards, voters who use their ballot as their own personal soap box, and voters who don’t even cover baseball anymore to continue to be allowed to vote on these things.

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  82. Like You Care

    The HOF voting is a stage for the ignorant, illogical and instigators.

    The best way to hurt the voters is to turn your back on baseball like I did. Life is so much better when you do.

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  83. JimL

    The HOF voting is a stage for the ignorant, illogical and instigators.

    I stopped caring for the HoF when they elected Ron Santo.

    Not because they elected Santo, but because they waited until after he was dead to elect him. Here was a guy who rode the emotional rollercoaster to the highest point each year only to have the disappointment come crashing down on him each and every year. It is great when we see an ex-player find out they have been elected and you see the pure joy and happiness in their face. Frank Thomas (yes, grumpy, moody Frank Thomas) has been smiling like a first time mother with a newborn ever since he got elected. No ex-player would have been happier than Ron Santo would have been had he been alive to hear the news. No one wanted to be in the HoF more than he did.

    And that was denied to him every single year of his life. Then he dies and they elect him.

    By that point it was a big Eff you, If he was good enough to be elected after he was dead, he was good enough to be elected 5 years earlier when the world would have gotten to witness one of the greatest outpouring of joy and happiness ever seen. His press conference would have been awesome to watch.

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  88. Like You Care

    It’s too early for this, but here’s my first-round mock. I’d prefer to do no trades, but there are a few spots where I have to. The mock is what I would do as each team based on scheme, need and perceived value.

    1. HOU: Bridgewater – Bortles might have more potential, but Bridgewater is easily the best QB prospect this year.
    2. ATL (via STL via WAS): Clowney – TB and ATL will fight over this pick.
    3. JAX: Bortles – They might take Manziel, but I don’t think they need to take that risk after missing on Gabbert.
    4. CLE: Manziel – Pretty good situation for a rookie QB. I think CLE challenges for the division next year.
    5. OAK: Jake Matthews – They need a QB too, but they’re not desperate enough to take Carr this high.
    6. STL (via ATL): Greg Robinson, OT, Auburn – They get the player they want and extra picks…again.
    7. DET (via TB): Sammy Watkins, WR, Clemson – Great value here. Makes that offense go boom.
    8. MIN: Derek Carr – Reach, imo, but they can’t risk missing out on a QB.
    9. BUF: Khalil Mack, OLB, Buffalo – Mack doesn’t have to move far. Orakpo-light.
    10. TB (via DET): Kony Ealy – Sorry, CHI fans. TB gets the player they need and an extra pick.
    11. TEN: Anthony Barr, OLB, UCLA – Raw edge rusher with a TON of upside.
    12. NYG: Darqueze Dennard, CB, Michigan St. – Best CB available will probably slide after the combine.
    13. STL: Mike Evans, WR, aggy – This team will be really good really soon.
    14. CHI: C.J. Mosley, LB, Alabama – Need DL help, but Mosley’s too good a value to pass up here.
    15. PIT: Cyrus Kouandjio, OT, Alabama – Every year PIT lands a perfect player for their system.
    16. BAL: Eric Ebron, TE, UNC – Monster. Should go higher than this.
    17. DAL: Justin Gilbert, CB, OkSU – Physical, athletic DB that can play anywhere in the secondary, imo.
    18. NYJ: Marqise Lee, WR, USC – Talented WR had a down year.
    19. MIA: Taylor Lewan, OT, Mich. – Thought he might have been the top OT after last season. Still talented.
    20. ARI: Vic Beasley, OLB, Clemson – I think he’ll add some weight and catch the eye of some 3-4 teams in the coming months.
    21. GB: Ra’shede Hageman, 5T, Minn. – GB needs impact players on defense, and I think Hageman provides the most impact.
    22. PHI: Ryan Shazier, OLB, OhSU – I think they draft a QB somewhere, but defense is better value here.
    23. KC: Stephon Tuitt, 5T, ND – They need another WR, but the value is later for them.
    24. CIN: Jason Verrett, CB, TCU – I really like this CB. Not really big, but super physical.

    Not predicting anything here, just going based on record…

    25. SD: Cyril Richardson, G, Baylor – Absolute beast.
    26. CLE (via IND): Zach Martin, OL, ND – Versatile OL is what they need here.
    27. NO: Kyle Van Noy, OLB, BYU – I think Rob Ryan reaches for this disruptive mormon.
    28. NE: Trent Murphy, OLB, Stanford – Classic NE edge rusher.
    29. CAR: Kelvin Benjamin, WR, FSU – They really need to help Cam out here.
    30. SF: Brandin Cooks, WR, OrSU – They really need a dynamic WR to pair with Crabtree.
    31. DEN: Xavier Su’a-Filo, G, UCLA – Keeping Manning from being hit is the key.
    32. SEA: Jace Amaro, TE, TTech – Will make this offense really tough to get off the field.

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  90. Like You Care

    @ Nate:

    I’ve only seen a little from Cousins, but I don’t see him as anything more than a mediocre starter. A team with a solid supporting cast like MIN or STL might give up a 2 for him, imo. Rephrased: If WAS can get a 2 for him, they should absolutely pull the trigger.

    There is a ton of talent in this draft, so WAS might be wise to move down and add picks. They shouldn’t give up future picks for picks this year, though. If I were WAS, I’d try to turn their 2 into a couple of 3s and pick up some high-upside players.

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  92. Like You Care

    @ Nate:

    Much like a trade between SF and CHI would have made sense last year, a trade between SF and WAS would make sense this year.

    SF gets WAS’s 2
    WAS gets the 2 SF got from KC and the 3 SF got from TEN

    SF needs quality over quantity, so they could draft a S to replace Whitner or a WR to replace Boldin.
    WAS would sacrifice some quality to go from 2 to 3 top-75 picks.

    I’ll do the mock simulator each way…

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  93. Like You Care

    WAS first three rounds w/o trade:

    2. (34) S HA’SEAN CLINTON-DIX ALABAMA
    3. (66) DT WILL SUTTON ARIZONA STATE

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  94. Mucker

    Ryno, what do you think of Timmy Jernigan? McShay has him as the 7th ranked prospect in the draft which I thought was kind of ridiculous.

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  95. Like You Care

    WAS first three rounds w/ trade:

    2. (56) OLB DEE FORD AUBURN
    3. (66) DT WILL SUTTON ARIZONA STATE
    3. (77) S CALVIN PRYOR LOUISVILLE

    Bit of a drop from Clinton-Dix to Pryor, but I think it’s worth it to add Dee Ford.

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  97. Like You Care

    @ Mucker:

    He’s purely a 3T. He’s definitely not the No. 7 on my big board, even if I did set mine as a 4-3 team.

    Ranking the 3Ts on pure talent, I’d put Dom Easley and Aaron Donald above him and Will Sutton a shade below. Factoring in medicals (Easley) and weight (Donald), he’s probably the best value as a 3T. Personally, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Easley’s knee checked out and he were the first 3T off the board.

    I’m not a big fan of the DTs in this draft. I wouldn’t spend a 1 on Jernigan unless I just really needed a plug and play 3T. I’d rather spend a 2 on Aaron Donald or a 3 on Anthony Johnson.

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  99. Nate

    I like Clinton-Dix for the Skins, good tackler and they need DB help.

    *But I probably don’t like Clinton-Dix as much as Ms. Lewinski. (couldn’t resist)
    On that note, he’d be and even more perfect fit for D.C.

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  102. SVB

    Nate wrote:

    But I probably don’t like Clinton-Dix as much as Ms. Lewinski. (couldn’t resist)
    On that note, he’d be and even more perfect fit for D.C.

    +1 and a honey-steeped cigar for you.

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  104. SVB

    @ Myles:
    meh.

    It would have been a better take if he’d have been a little more even-handed about how much better the farm system has gotten. There was nothing when Thoyer arrived, and now there are all those exciting kids Passan wrote about.

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  105. Like You Care

    @ Nate:

    He is No. 30. He’s a DE at Auburn, but he’ll move to OLB in the NFL…maybe regardless of scheme.

    Despite that awful joke, Clinton-Dix is definitely the best S prospect. If I’m WAS, though, I take a very slight step down to the next tier of S if it means I add a pass rusher like Ford as well. No question.

    They have 3-4 personnel now, but they’re kind of flexible. And I thought I read that they were considering a switch.

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  106. WaLi

    @ Myles:
    Thinking about the Cubs this offseason has upset me to no end. I was driving in south Florida over Christmas break and saw a bus that said “Marlins World Series Championship 1997 and 2003!”. Why can the Marlins come out of nowhere, win two championships in 6 years, and the sum of their championship teams have a lower payroll the the Cubs last year.

    I think Passan summarizes it best.

    It’s one thing to be bad. It’s another to not spend money

    I want the Cubs to win fucking games and to spend like a big market team. They aren’t mutually inclusive but I feel like we need to start doing something. They are ranked #4 overall by Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/teams/chicago-cubs/). The arguement is that there aren’t people worth spending money on and it isn’t the right time to spend. But Tanaka definitely is worth spending money on, however much that may be.

    Sorry, I’ll stop my incoherent venting.

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  109. dmick89

    @ WaLi:
    I don’t disagree and I think the argument “they’re isn’t anyone to spend on” could always be argued. The Cubs do need to go all out and get Tanaka. If not, what are they fucking doing?

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  110. WaLi

    @ dmick89:
    3 of the biggest free agents from Japan were Darvish, Dice-K, and Ichiro.
    Do you think Texas is thinking twice about picking up Darvish? They aren’t regretting “over paying” for Darvish one bit.

    Ichiro was obviously well worth the money. Future HOF’r (at least to the OV HOF).

    Dice-K was worth his contract (not including posting fee, and I separate the two since Tanaka has a limited fee). He was plagued by injuries which is a risk of signing any pitcher though.

    Pay the man. Get a dump truck driven by Todd Ricketts full of single dollar bills (i imagine singles in a dumptruck would be about $150M) and drop it off on his doorstep. The effect alone will make him sign with the Cubs.

    I also think by signing him and showing other players that the Cubs are ready to play pro baseball, then other FA’s might be more willing to come (obviously money talks but let’s say that two teams are offering the same $’s or close to). And winning would breed more winning. I believe it was Samardzija that said it sucks trading away all your teammates. What motivation does Rizzo and Castro have (other than competitive nature) to try as hard as they can every game if they know winning doesn’t matter right now? They are already locked in for years and getting paid.

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  111. Like You Care

    dmick89 wrote:

    @ WaLi:
    I don’t disagree and I think the argument “they’re isn’t anyone to spend on” could always be argued. If not, what are they fucking…?

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  112. Nate

    @ Like You Care:

    Yea who knows, WASH may switch defense. They only got the HC yesterday, and while there are rumors he’s keeping current defensive staff, he could also replace them. I just want their defense to not suck.

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  114. sitrick

    I’m as rosy eyed as anybody, but with the Dodgers being seriously in on Tanaka and the lack of even any kind of meaningful trade taking place this offseason….I’m nervous by the way the team seems to be standing pat this year.

    How are Olt and Villanueva both still on the 40 man at this point? Do something already.

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  115. Suburban kid

    My MLB THe SHow lineup

    Castro
    Schierholtz
    Rizzo
    Murphy
    Kottares/Castillo
    Ruggiano
    Olt (LF)
    Watkins/Barney
    Pitcher

    Pretty fucking exciting

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  120. Suburban kid

    @ dmick89:
    Because that’s what a normal person would do.

    Anyway, they clinched the division in the first week of September and Rizzo had been set to win the triple crown all season but now Brandon Belt has caught up with him in BA with 10 games left

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  123. WaLi

    @ Like You Care:
    I don’t think you can type commands into OV and expect it to work. An easy way to bookmark though is to go to the website and press “Ctrl+D”. Works like a charm!

    [img]http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081023004832/uncyclopedia/images/7/7c/Themoreyouknow.jpg[/img]

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  124. Suburban kid

    @ Berselius:
    Junior Lake, Ryan Sweeney and Luis Valbuena all had chances to be starters or platoon guys but just didn’t cut it. Barney hasn’t cut it either, but I’m being a bit Dusty with him and letting him get his starts due to his being one of the longest serving Cubs..

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  129. fang2415

    @ Myles:
    I think that Passan article was pretty stupid actually. “The Cubs would be stupid to spend more money now, but they’re not spending enough money now.”

    The problem is that right now the effect of having nothing to intelligently spend money on looks exactly the same as the effect of tightwad owners, so nobody knows what the real contribution of each cause is. Then people write articles about the second one because it’s easier to blame someone (in particular) for it, and then in the tenth paragraph they mumble something about “oh yeah, and also a bunch of systemic market problems make it so there’s nothing they should spend on anyway”.

    Nobody’s going to know how stingy the Ricketts are until the Cubs start to miss opportunities due to money. I don’t think they’ve done that yet in any serious way. In a couple years, with a core in place, there will (hopefully) be many more deals that will make sense for the Cubs, and if they don’t spend money on those deals, then we’ll know that the Ricketts are tightwads, and articles like Passan’s will make more sense.

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  130. fang2415

    @ uncle dave:
    Also, yes, (dying laughing) at Schlub Arkush’s “the one and only form of actionable information about whether someone will have MLB success is whether they have previously had MLB success” argument.

    The Cubs aren’t going to get Tanaka, but I think they’re smart enough to make sure that it won’t be because of money, unless LA/NY offer him something exceeding the value of the franchise. (I am starting to wonder if someone will go over $200M, just to fuck everybody.)

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  131. fang2415

    So here’s a question for people who think the Cubs should spend more now (not just being a dick here, I srs want to know):

    Say Tanaka signs with NY at a discount just because he really liked Seinfeld or something. Should the Cubs then sign Matt Garza?

    It would be pretty (dying laughing), but he’s the best pitcher on the market except for Tanaka and possibly F7 (2x(dying laughing)). Plus there’s no draft penalty since he was a midseason flip. So wouldn’t that be the best way to improve the pitching staff over the next few years?

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  132. Suburban kid

    fang2415 wrote:

    Nobody’s going to know how stingy the Ricketts are until the Cubs start to miss opportunities due to money. I don’t think they’ve done that yet in any serious way. In a couple years, with a core in place, there will (hopefully) be many more deals that will make sense for the Cubs, and if they don’t spend money on those deals, then we’ll know that the Ricketts are tightwads, and articles like Passan’s will make more sense.

    [img]http://oi41.tinypic.com/15r00m1.jpg[/img]

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  133. dmick89

    @ fang2415:
    I’m not sure the point of your question and we’ve gone back and forth on money a dozen too many times here already so I’m staying away from it. My thoughts on the issue have been expressed here at least 20 times.

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  134. fang2415

    @ dmick89:
    Yes, this is true. I’ve just been too lazy to post in the earlier iterations, (dying laughing). But I do think it’s interesting that the current evidence is consistent with both positions, and thus fuels both sides of the argument.

    Personally, I fall on the the-Cubs-spending-is-nearly-optimal side, but I realize that I don’t really have any evidence that contradicts the the-Ricketts-are-cheap position. My attitude is that we’ll have to put the over/under at 50-50 and take it one day at a time.

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  135. fang2415

    @ dmick89:
    But wait a sec, have we discussed whether the Cubes should sign Garza if they can’t get Tanaka? What’s the price at which it becomes worth it?

    How many pitchers better than him make it to FA these days, at or below his age and without losing a draft pick?

    I haven’t been reading every word so I might have missed a discussion about this, and I’m probably forgetting some stupidly obvious reason why it’s a bad idea, but now that I’ve thought of it I’m wondering why I haven’t heard more about it.

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  136. dmick89

    fang2415 wrote:

    But wait a sec, have we discussed whether the Cubes should sign Garza if they can’t get Tanaka? What’s the price at which it becomes worth it?

    I’m not sure what the price is and haven’t given it a great deal of thought to be honest. I don’t expect they’ll get Tanaka and I don’t think they’ll go after Garza either. My guess is they bid something like $100 million for Tanaka, which is a good sum of money, but I expect it falls way short. I bet at least 3 or 4 teams bid higher than the Cubs.

    Do the Cubs have to get Tanaka to prove they’re willing to spend? No, but it would sure help. They can’t help what other teams bid and if it does get crazy, there’s not a whole lot they can do.

    I know the argument against spending is that they don’t want to put themselves in a position in which they can’t spend when it may be more worthwhile. See, I think that’s the position they’re putting themselves in by not spending, by not spreading out the payments. If in two years they go and sign 3 or 4 guys to 5-year deals for big money, that’s great, but I figure it ends as well as it did with their last spending spree.

    As much as I love spending sprees, I don’t want the Cubs to acquire a bunch of high-priced guys at the same time and I think that’s the position they’re putting themselves in.

    I’ve mentioned this before and I don’t feel like arguing about it again. The Cubs just aren’t interesting enough at this point to argue about anything.

    We’ll see whether or not Ricketts is willing to spend money, but the guy has been in town for 5 years now and the payroll just keeps going down. Is that because they don’t have the money? Is it because they don’t think they should spend right now? I don’t know and nobody does. What we know is that there is more money going in Ricketts pocket and I’m never a fan of that. The increased spending on amateur talent, if there has been one considering the limits, isn’t offsetting the decreased payroll. The drop in revenue is relatively small and the Cubs are going to cash in soon with a new tv deal.

    There’s plenty of reason to be frustrated. There’s also plenty of reason to still be optimistic. I get that, but I’m less inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt compared to others here. I don’t know that I’m right. I don’t know that anybody else is either. The new normal is quite likely somewhere in the middle of what we were hoping for and what we’ve seen so far.

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  137. fang2415

    @ dmick89:
    I thought you didn’t want to post about spending? Sorry for accidentally trolling you, (dying laughing).

    Anyway, Fangraphs readers guessed that Garza’s contract would be basically identical to McCann’s. They were one year and $25M short on McCann ((dying laughing)), so maybe we can assume something like that for Garza, minus a bit for breakability? So maybe in the range of 4/70 to 5/80?

    If we’re (foolishly) optimistic about his health and figure 3 WAR for 2014 and then .5 less per year, then that adds 3 WAR of fun times for Cubs fans in 2014 and 2.5 when the team actually has a snowball’s chance in 2015, and not going too far below league average by contract’s end (especially if it’s 4 years).

    That’s probably a slight overpay, but I’m not sure it’s that bad considering the Cubs pitching depth and how few options will come onto the market soon? Unless they know that he’s even more breakable than he appears…

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  138. fang2415

    @ fang2415:
    Plus you can add the value of the draft pick to the value Garza provides. Not sure how you value that, but it’s got to be worth several million at least? Plus once you get Garza you can keep him until mid-season and then flip him for Nolasco. Honestly this is win-win.

    Srsly though, it does seem like pitching is where the Cubes will eventually have to start making an FA splash considering the farm system and their 9-starter theory. I think I’d be much less annoyed by them overspending here then I would for something silly like Cano.

    And for the record btw I wouldn’t be pissed off at all if they spent $150-$175 to get Tanaka, even while approving of spendthrifty-miser strategies.

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  140. fang2415

    Oof, although I note that McCann is projected for 4 WAR next year, and is a year younger (and Garza’s actual projection is more like 2.5 WAR).

    I wonder if Garza will actually get that much? FA prices have been pretty crazy this winter…

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  142. JimL

    @ dmick89:

    We’ll see whether or not Ricketts is willing to spend money, but the guy has been in town for 5 years now and the payroll just keeps going down. Is that because they don’t have the money? Is it because they don’t think they should spend right now? I don’t know and nobody does.

    Just because the Cubs are not going to be competitive right now does not mean they should not be spending money right now. Sure they do not want to get locked into any long term deals with big name free agents at this time, but there are other ways of spending money. What they should be doing is using their big market payroll to slightly overpay for a bunch of one and two year deals.

    This does two things. One, it gives them a chance to catch lightning in a bottle. By fielding a moderately competitive team they could get lucky and if a bunch of players outperform their expected value they might sneak into the playoffs. As it is right now, Rizzo, Castro, and Shark could all have career years and the team might make it to .500.

    The second (and more important) reason is that by signing veterans to one and two year deals you now have a bunch of trade chips that can be flipped at mid-season for some prospects thereby helping for the long term.

    The only reason a drastically lower payroll should be acceptable is if this money is somehow being banked for future payrolls to go above and beyond what they would normally be. Does anyone really think this is happening?

    Nope. The money is going straight into the Ricketts pocket (minus a small percentage going to improving the minor leagues and international areas.

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  143. WaLi

    JimL wrote:

    The second (and more important) reason is that by signing veterans to one and two year deals you now have a bunch of trade chips that can be flipped at mid-season for some prospects thereby helping for the long term.

    I wonder how many players don’t want to come to the Cubs because the don’t want to be flipped.

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  145. Lukas

    @ WaLi:

    I would think a good number of players would welcome being traded at the deadline. Usually the team taking them has a decent shot at the playoffs.

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  146. WaLi

    Fuck. Sounds like Cubs are out on Tanaka. Tanaka apparently narrowed down to both LA teams and NYY. Must be nice to be rich AND spend money.

    Edit: Only found one website that stated this, so take it with a grain of salt.

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  153. Like You Care

    Rice in limbo wrote:

    Play of the game.

    I still can’t believe that. If he steps out, NO is at the SEA 35 with seven seconds left on the clock. They could have probably run a quick out and gotten 10-15 more yards or taken two shots at the end zone.

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  155. Like You Care

    I think the NFL got it right with their final four teams. Held out hope NO would upset SEA so we could have one more game at Candlestick, but oh well.

    Picked a DEN/SEA Super Bowl before the season. Sure hope I was wrong…

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  156. Suburban kid

    Myles wrote:

    fang2415 wrote:
    So yeah, we really do need some new shit. Or a FA signing or BCB open letter or something

    I’m on it.

    Can’t wait to hear what you’ve got to say to Al

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  158. fang2415

    Suburban kid wrote:

    Myles wrote:
    fang2415 wrote:
    So yeah, we really do need some new shit. Or a FA signing or BCB open letter or something
    I’m on it.

    Can’t wait to hear what you’ve got to say to Al

    And I can’t wait to hear which FA you’ve signed

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  159. Berselius

    @ Like You Care:

    Agreed on the four best teams making it, though I was bummed that the Colts couldn’t win in Foxboro. After last week’s game it never felt like they were out until midway through the fourth quarter or so. If you give up that many yards to LeGerrette F-ing Blount you deserve to lose.

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  160. Like You Care

    @ Berselius:

    IND is a dangerous team that could be elite really soon with a few good drafts. They just happened to run into an elite coaching staff that continually impresses me. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they went into DEN and won (despite the massive talent disadvantage).

    In the NFC, I’m not sure what to think. SEA in SEA is easily the best team in football, but I think SF is capable of beating anyone anywhere. If SF plays their best, they’re going to the Super Bowl. It’s just really tough to sustain your best football throughout an entire game. I think SF either wins by three or loses by two TDs.

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  161. Berselius

    @ Like You Care:

    I thought Luck and Hilton were going to torch that defense, and both teams were going to score in the 40s. Amazing, amazing job by the Pats coaching staff.

    Would love to see what the Packers could do with even league average health. Their biggest offseason acquisition could be a new training staff. It’s been a problem ever since (and including) their super bowl run a few years back.

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  164. dmick89

    I know there are several iPhone users around here so I’ve got a question. Does anyone jailbreak their phone? This seems like a more interesting topic to me than the fucking Cubs (or football). (dying laughing)

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  168. dmick89

    @ WaLi:
    Nothing really. Just waiting for some tweaks since the jailbreak was released around Christmas. There are a bunch already and some of them I’m using, but mostly what I want is some apps to quick open on my lock screen. The best tweak I’ve found so far is BioProtect. You can lock apps as you’ve always been able to do with tweaks, but rather than a passcode to open it, you use the touch id on the iPhone 5s. Winterboard was updated yesterday, but most of the themes only theme the icons, which is fine. Mostly just wondering if anyone around here jailbreaks and if they do, what tweaks they like so far. Just something to talk about.

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  169. Like You Care

    @ Berselius:

    GB also needed a year to transition to this new offense they’re working on. I expect them to draft at least one TE and roll out a ton more 12 personnel next year.

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  170. Suburban kid

    @ dmick89:
    No. I’m not sure of the benefit, other than the ability to steal premium apps, unless you’re interested with fucking around with it at a technical level.

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  171. dmick89

    @ Berselius:
    I just hate how Apple doesn’t give the user the ability to install these apps from the start. When you buy a computer you don’t have to jailbreak it to install whatever apps you want. I much prefer the iPhone to Android phones so won’t switch, but will jailbreak every one of them as long as it works.

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  173. Suburban kid

    I have very few apps. However, I still get a lot of value out of my iPhone. I use the fuck out of my small selection of basic apps. And while the small screen (compared to some Andriod phones) is starting to piss me off, I still don’t think I want to carry anything bigger.

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  174. dmick89

    Besides, I’d never even consider jailbreaking if all I wanted to do was install some apps available on the App Store. Better and safer to just buy them through Apple. Some repos have pirated apps and pirated tweaks, but I’d prefer the original author get some money if there’s a fee for them.

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  175. Like You Care

    And this is why CHI needs to consider Washington State S Deone Bucannon:

    [img]http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1942727/Deone_medium.gif[/img]

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  176. dmick89

    @ Suburban kid:
    I definitely don’t want something bigger. Some of the Samsung phones look horrible. I’ve got too much shit in my pockets as it is so the last thing I want is a 47 inch screen in my pocket. I’m perfectly happy with Apple’s 4 inch screen. If I want bigger I’ll grab my iPad or laptop.

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  177. Suburban kid

    Suburban kid wrote:

    I have very few apps. However, I still get a lot of value out of my iPhone. I use the fuck out of my small selection of basic apps.

    It’s not the size that matters, it’s what you do with it, etc. etc.

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