The Cubs lost to the Phillies and Roy Halladay on Friday evening, which wasn’t a surprise. What was a surprise, and what has most people talking/tweeting/cursing/throwing things was that Carlos Zambrano was left in the game to face Placido Polanco with the bases loaded in the seventh inning after he had thrown 125 pitches on the evening.
What the hell was Quade thinking? Todd Hollandsworth and Dave Kaplan came as close to uttering that phrase as possible without actually saying it during the postgame show. Both stated pretty clearly that they felt Zambrano was gassed and he had no business being out there to serve up the resulting grand slam on his 128th and final pitch of the night.
It’s not like Z was riding a hot streak. He had walked the bases loaded (one was intentional), and only managed to get an out in the inning because the Phillies sacrificed after the first walk. It was Zambrano’s fourth trip through the potent Phillies lineup, which is asking for trouble on the best nights, and this was not anywhere close to one of Z’s best nights.
Meanwhile, the team was down by three runs, so you would think they would have been in ultimate run-stopping mode. The Cubs surely had plenty of relievers available, even after the extra-inning game the night before. Assuming it wasn’t John Grabow coming in, I have a hard time thinking of a situation where Zambrano with his arm about to fall off was the best option.
All I could think, as Zambrano lobbed ball after ball up there in the 7th, was that Quade was teaching Zambrano some sort of lesson for showing up his teammates after his last start.
I have no sources. I have no particular insight into the mind of Mike Quade. This is merely an opinion, and an admittedly half-assed one at that, but this had the feel of a child being taught a lesson.
Didn’t it seem like Quade was basically telling Zambrano, “Well, you seem to have gotten yourself into a real fix here. Let’s see how well you get out of it without any help from your so-called AAA teammates?”
It would fit into the Cubs’ and Quade’s past history of treating the players like children. After all, this is the same team that sends players off to their rooms without dinner and gives them public timeouts for making mental mistakes.
They were already behind and unlikely to score on Halladay if he had stayed it the game, so its not like Quade threw the game. He simply saved his bullpen for tomorrow when they might have a chance to win for a pitcher that didn’t just publicly declare his team to be an embarrassment.
I don’t know anything for certain, but this felt like Zambrano being taken out to the woodshed.
I don’t think Z was being “punished” by Quade. If he was, Q should be fired ASAP. Leaving him in was questionable. I think this theory is a stretch to say the least.
Now, back to my regularly scheduled night off.
How is this different than when he left Dempster in through virtually every start in April long enough to serve up a game losing homer?
This just seems like how Quade does business, not a conspiracy.
In Quade’s defense (I admittedly didn’t watch the game), but I see that the last fastball Zambrano threw (ball 2 to Howard) was 92mph so he still had his usual 2011 zip on the fastball. Was Carlos really out of gas?
When I wrote this last night, I had missed Quade’s visit to the mound in the 7th, which is probably what made it seem more intentionally punitive than it was. I had thought Quade just sat there and watched his pitcher labor through pitch counts in the hundreds without doing anything until the homerun happened.
Knowing that he did his traditional “How you feelin’?” trip to the mound when the pitcher assures him he’s fine right before a crushing homerun makes me less likely to buy into my own conspiracy theory. I told you it was a half-assed opinion.
Well, it’s impossible to prove intent, and even a confession can only remove all reasonable doubt. But the beauty of this theory is that it really doesn’t matter. Was Quade dumb on purpose or because he actually is a AAA manager? I buy the theory. Maybe it wasn’t entirely punitive, but i could definitely see Quade factoring it into the decision. “You want to stay in? Sure. Embarrass yourself this time.” If he works out of it, great. If he doesn’t, the Cubs’ chances of winning go from 1% to 0%. Whoop de doo.
Send a message. See what happens.
I didn’t read the last 100 or so comments in the last thread because I quit watching this game after the 6th inning. I assume Zambrano was out of the game seeing as he’d thrown close to 110 pitches. I check the box score this morning and see he was left in. What the fucking fuck? He threw about 110 pitches threw 6 innings and there were some tough innings in there. No way should he have been sent back out for the 7th.
Quade has had a tendency to leave his starter in too long this season. And it seems when it does that, it has backfired in a huge way. Usually it doesn’t backfire like that and if he manages just like he has for a long time, things will even out, but you’d think the guy would learn. I don’t know what really happened in the 7th, but I knew Zambrano was at the upper pitch limit after the 6th. No way should he be back out there.
Q might have been thinking about his bullpen too, as they have had few days off and had to be used quite a bit in blowouts in Cincinnati, extras in STL, and Thursday night after the rain delay killed Wells’ start and they went into extras. That’s the only thing I can think of to justify asking Z to give just a little more.
All that said, I thought he was done after the 6th as well, probably should have been pinch-hit for, and should definitely not have been in there long enough to give up a grand slam.
It was a ridiculous call. I don’t necessarily see the conspiracy, I just see a manager who is struggling to figure out how to get his team to win. Who cares about the bullpen? You are within striking distance of Roy Halladay and a potential series split against one of the best teams in baseball, you have to play to win in that case. That being said, if there’s no slam, maybe Roy Halladay comes back out and pitches a complete game and there’s no rally. Still I’d take three runs vs. Roy over 7 runs vs. the bullpen.
Yeah, win or lose, punishment or not, that’s just a dumb decision.
Mike Quade vs. the weather meme:
http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1230222
I think we’re missing a more important point in the arguments above – it was bad that Z was left in to give up that HR to Polanco, but he should have been taken out the batter before when he was at 120+ pitches, had led off the inning with a walk, and most importantly, Ryan Howard was coming up to the plate and James Russell was warmed up in the pen. Howard has a negative eleventy billion OPS against LHP, and shouldn’t be facing a righty who was clearly running out of gas.
Yeah, b, he shouldn’t have been in there to start the freaking inning. He’d had a tough night and worked hard. He was already over 100 pitches. The mistake, in my opinion, was even sending him out there for the 7th. For that matter, the mistake was letting him hit in the top of the 7th. Z is a good hitter, but he’s not a better hitter than a position player.
Agreed mb. Having him hit was the first of a string of bad decisions, the worst of which was having him pitch to Howard.
The worst decision was walking Utley in order to pitch to Howard.
[quote name=ACT]The worst decision was walking Utley in order to pitch to Howard.[/quote]
It’s a fine decision if you’re planning on bringing in a LHP, which was the obvious move.
[quote name=Berselius]Agreed mb. Having him hit was the first of a string of bad decisions, the worst of which was having him pitch to Howard.[/quote]To be completely honest, there were so many bad decisions before that that I actually don’t think that compares to the rest of them. The bottom line for me is that he should not have been out there in the 7th inning. No way. The at-bat and then every pitch he threw in the 7th was just one big mistake.
maybe the Cubs lose 3-0. I don’t know. Don’t even care. There’s just no reason whatsoever that a guy who had as difficult a night as Zambrano should have been out there in the 7th.
The Cubs had relievers available. Wood only pitched an inning the night before. Marshall was probably unavailable, but you could have used Wood for 1.1 and Marmol for 1.2 if you wanted to keep it at 3 runs and maybe you win. I don’t know. As I said, don’t care either. It was easily the dumbest decision that Mike Quade has made as Cubs manager.
If Quade didn’t have a tendency to leave his starters in too long, I’d probably agree with 424 that it was punishment, but he’s done this several times already this season. I don’t if Zambrano was gassed or not, but I do know he was fatigued like any pitcher would be after those 6 innings. Just a dumbass decision by Quade.
Probably a good thing Cashner will be in the bullpen when he comes back because Quade has no clue how to use a starter.
If we’re talking worst decision, it has to be letting him bat. Sending Z back out there was a result of that and everything after that as well.
There are still 100 games left this season? Dear god, this is going to be a long season…
I think we apply Hanlon’s Razor here:
Never assume malice where you can impute incompetence.
Mike Quade is lost. He is in so far over his head, he doesn’t know what to do, and the sequence from letting Z hit all the way through the GS is proof positive of this fact. He’s fucking lost. In way that few MLB managers ever have been.
[quote name=Berselius]It’s a fine decision if you’re planning on bringing in a LHP, which was the obvious move.[/quote]I disagree. Having runners on first and second has a higher run expectancy than just having one on second, and this is even more the case with a power hitter like Howard. And it’s not as though Howard can’t hit lefties, either (career-wise). It may be an exaggeration to call this the worst move, but it’s the one I find hardest to defend.
[quote name=Rice Cube]The Giants are thinking of in-house options for catcher:
hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/…/…
Could be interesting. He couldn’t be any worse than Jake Fox or Mike Napoli.
[/quote]
So, after losing the guy you expected to be the best hitter this season at catcher and hearing the outcry of moving him off of catcher, you decide to start putting the guy who actually has been the team’s best hitter this year behind the plate. I like Panda but he just broke a bone in his hand, the hamate bone and has been slowed on his recovery by wrist swelling and soreness and they want him to catch. Wow, it seems the Cubs are not alone in the land of stupid.
[quote name=mb21]If we’re talking worst decision, it has to be letting him bat. Sending Z back out there was a result of that and everything after that as well.[/quote]
Agreed, after that it was just piling on more dumb shit moves that wouldn’t have been possible if this move was made first. He does leave guys in too long trying to make his starters happy, they say they are fine, so I leave them in, don’t want to upset anyone by actually making a decision.
[quote name=Bubba Biscuit]So, after losing the guy you expected to be the best hitter this season at catcher and hearing the outcry of moving him off of catcher, you decide to start putting the guy who actually has been the team’s best hitter this year behind the plate. I like Panda but he just broke a bone in his hand, the hamate bone and has been slowed on his recovery by wrist swelling and soreness and they want him to catch. Wow, it seems the Cubs are not alone in the land of stupid.[/quote]
Yeah, I don’t think it’s a particularly good decision, I just think it would be interesting to try if you were playing a video game.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I think we apply Hanlon’s Razor here:
Never assume malice where you can impute incompetence.
Mike Quade is lost. He is in so far over his head, he doesn’t know what to do, and the sequence from letting Z hit all the way through the GS is proof positive of this fact. He’s fucking lost. In way that few MLB managers ever have been.[/quote]We heard Piniella say Z never liked to come out. Is Q afraid to stand up to Z?
[quote name=Bubba Biscuit]So, after losing the guy you expected to be the best hitter this season at catcher and hearing the outcry of moving him off of catcher, you decide to start putting the guy who actually has been the team’s best hitter this year behind the plate. I like Panda but he just broke a bone in his hand, the hamate bone and has been slowed on his recovery by wrist swelling and soreness and they want him to catch. Wow, it seems the Cubs are not alone in the land of stupid.[/quote]They should let Matt Cain catch. Think about it: Who knows how to call a game better than a pitcher? It’s perfect. He can catch on his days off from pitching. Just part time of course.
[quote name=Josh]We heard Piniella say Z never liked to come out. Is Q afraid to stand up to Z?[/quote]I don’t think so. I just think he’s got no idea what he’s doing, so he just guts every decision. It really is a “let’s see what happens” managerial philosophy.
[quote name=Josh]They should let Matt Cain catch. Think about it: Who knows how to call a game better than a pitcher? It’s perfect. He can catch on his days off from pitching. Just part time of course.[/quote]
Some baseball video games prevent that option. I wonder if it’s because it’s so stupid they just didn’t have the code to implement it.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I don’t think so. I just think he’s got no idea what he’s doing, so he just guts every decision. It really is a “let’s see what happens” managerial philosophy.[/quote]
He doesn’t make decisions, he waits long enough and the decision is made for him. Making a decision means one person won’t like it and another person will, and he seems afraid to make that call.
Unlike biased pseudo-journalist Paul “I look like and aging lesbian” Sullivan, Bruce Miles actually includes a quote from Z shouldering the blame for the loss:
I guess that would not have fit Sullivan’s narrative.
[quote name=Bubba Biscuit]He doesn’t make decisions, he waits long enough and the decision is made for him. Making a decision means one person won’t like it and another person will, and he seems afraid to make that call.[/quote]Yeah, but I don’t think it’s fear. He just honestly doesn’t know which decision to make.
I don’t really think Quade is lost. It’s not that hard to manage a baseball game. I think he has this idea that you let your starter stay in the game until he’s clearly done and at that point it’s too late. Lou let Z bat all the time as well and that pissed me off. I’d rather have Koyie HIll at the plate in a run producing situation than Carlos Zambrano. There’s not a single position player on the roster that isn’t a better overall hitter than Z.
Top of the 7th inning, down by 3, pitcher up, you pinch hit. The only excuse for not pinch hitting in that situation is if your bullpen has been overly worked and that just wasn’t the case with the Cubs bullpen.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Unlike biased pseudo-journalist Paul “I look like and aging lesbian” Sullivan, Bruce Miles actually includes a quote from Z shouldering the blame for the loss:
I guess that would not have fit Sullivan’s narrative.[/quote]
Gordo also used that quote, as did Bruce Levine. I don’t think either of them mentioned Z’s 1500th strikeout but that probably wasn’t going to be appropriately framed anyway. I still think it’s a great achievement despite the shitty start.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, but I don’t think it’s fear. He just honestly doesn’t know which decision to make.[/quote]
I don’t think that’s true. The guy, from all accounts, is very smart when it comes to baseball. He’s even made some sound saber moves (more than the previous Cubs managers combined). I really only have on complaint with regards to Quade. He’s left his starters in too long. That’s not a problem that’s exclusive to him, but it’s still a problem. Time and again this season he’s left the starter in when he should have been taken out. Other than that, I honestly have no issues with Quade. I think most every other decision has been the right one in terms of wins and considering the future at the same time.
But he obviously leaves his starters in too long. And opens his mouth too much, but even he’s proven to be better than Lou, Baker and the others before him. I was really impressed with how he handled the Zambrano “situation”. Any other Cubs manager makes a big deal out of that and Quade treated it like it was nothing.
[quote name=mb21]I don’t think that’s true. The guy, from all accounts, is very smart when it comes to baseball. He’s even made some sound saber moves (more than the previous Cubs managers combined). I really only have on complaint with regards to Quade. He’s left his starters in too long. That’s not a problem that’s exclusive to him, but it’s still a problem. Time and again this season he’s left the starter in when he should have been taken out. Other than that, I honestly have no issues with Quade. I think most every other decision has been the right one in terms of wins and considering the future at the same time.
But he obviously leaves his starters in too long. And opens his mouth too much, but even he’s proven to be better than Lou, Baker and the others before him. I was really impressed with how he handled the Zambrano “situation”. Any other Cubs manager makes a big deal out of that and Quade treated it like it was nothing.[/quote]
I don’t know how you can look at that sequence from Z batting through the grand slam and see this guy as being even remotely ready for this gig.
Agreed on his professionalism with the Z thing, though. That was pitch-perfect.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Gordo also used that quote, as did Bruce Levine. I don’t think either of them mentioned Z’s 1500th strikeout but that probably wasn’t going to be appropriately framed anyway. I still think it’s a great achievement despite the shitty start.[/quote]Sullivan added some quotes, but still excluded that one. For obvious reasons.
I think this has gone overlooked. I know it has here, but I imagine it’s been even more overlooked elsewhere. I liked Lou. I was a big fan, but there’s a 0% chance that Darwin Barney would have been the starter out of spring training. Maybe that’s not the best move for now, but for the future it probably is. Quade has stuck with Castro even when he’s slumped. I’m pretty sure Lou would have given him a week or two off at this point. Quade hasn’t made a big deal of Dempster’s performance. No doubt Lou would have and he’d have been wrong in doing so.
Quade put Cashner in the rotation. Lou had him moved to the bullpen. Lou used Koyie Hill way more than he should have. Hill barely saw the field before Soto’s injury.
I think all things considered Quade has done a damn good job at balancing this shitty roster in a way that maximizes its wins now and potentially in the future. If he’d just take his starters out 10 pitches sooner and not talk as much I’d be a big fan. (dying laughing)
[quote name=ACT]I disagree. Having runners on first and second has a higher run expectancy than just having one on second, and this is even more the case with a power hitter like Howard. And it’s not as though Howard can’t hit lefties, either (career-wise). It may be an exaggeration to call this the worst move, but it’s the one I find hardest to defend.[/quote]
If you’re going to adjust RE Howard’s power, you also have to adjust for the fact that Z is a groundball pitcher. You also have to adjust for things like platoon splits and Z going through the order for the fourth time. You can’t pick and choose.
Managers leave starters in too long all the time. Lou had the slowest hook in MLB (even worse than Baker). I’m not even sure there’s really a difference between Quade and Lou in that regard other than every time Quade has made the wrong decision it has backfired.
[quote name=mb21]I think all things considered Quade has done a damn good job at balancing this shitty roster in a way that maximizes its wins now and potentially in the future. If he’d just take his starters out 10 pitches sooner and not talk as much I’d be a big fan. (dying laughing)[/quote]
I agree that I like how he makes a lineup card and handled the Z situation. And yes, every time he leaves a guy in too long it seems to bite him in the ass and we notice it.
I don’t know why you guys are letting facts and logic get in the way of the perfectly good narrative I had going in this article.
Besides, there’s not a single person who has played professional baseball who would be in over his head as a manager. It’s just not a hard job to do. He’s also taken a rather shitty roster and had them perform better than expected. The roster he’s had, including injuries, has probably been a .475 team since he took over (or worse). They’re .500 in his time as a manager. He’s obviously doing something right.
[quote name=Bubba Biscuit]I agree that I like how he makes a lineup card and handled the Z situation. And yes, every time he leaves a guy in too long it seems to bite him in the ass and we notice it.[/quote]It’s really odd. When I saw the box score this morning my first inclination was to look back at the long pitch outings this season and how they did that final innings they started. Based on my faulty memory, it seems every time the pitcher has given up a handful of runs.
[quote name=Berselius]If you’re going to adjust RE Howard’s power, you also have to adjust for the fact that Z is a groundball pitcher. You also have to adjust for things like platoon splits and Z going through the order for the fourth time. You can’t pick and choose.[/quote]I was arguing that walking Utley would be a bad decision even if a lefty were brought in to face Howard, so the stuff about Z is beside the point. Anyway, I agree that letting Z go through the lineup a 4th time is a mistake.
I think if Reed and Baker had not gotten injured, we’d have seen a lot less of Barney as he cooled at the plate, and we’d have seen nothing but Reed in CF. Quade’s been kind of forced to play the players he’s played, and while I agree he’s probably done the best he can do, let’s not start cranking our own dicks here over his squad management. He lost his gamers.
Agreed on the HIll thing, though. I really like how he’s handled Soto even though Soto has been pretty bad at the dish.
[quote name=mb21]Besides, there’s not a single person who has played professional baseball who would be in over his head as a manager. It’s just not a hard job to do. He’s also taken a rather shitty roster and had them perform better than expected. The roster he’s had, including injuries, has probably been a .475 team since he took over (or worse). They’re .500 in his time as a manager. He’s obviously doing something right.[/quote]Frank Robinson disagrees. (dying laughing)
I love how contrarian this blog is. All you have to do is forcefully posit something, and without a doubt 2-3 posters will immediately counteract it, almost as if on principle. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I love how contrarian this blog is. All you have to do is forcefully posit something, and without a doubt 2-3 posters will immediately counteract it, almost as if on principle. (dying laughing)[/quote]
False.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I love how contrarian this blog is. All you have to do is forcefully posit something, and without a doubt 2-3 posters will immediately counteract it, almost as if on principle. (dying laughing)[/quote]Wrong.
[quote name=Rice Cube]False.[/quote][quote name=ACT]Wrong.[/quote]
Correct.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Correct.[/quote]Amusing…but wrong.
Brad F Snyder ——> AAA
Casey Coleman —-> Iowa Cubs of Chicago
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I love how contrarian this blog is. All you have to do is forcefully posit something, and without a doubt 2-3 posters will immediately counteract it, almost as if on principle. (dying laughing)[/quote]
Agree, just to be contrarian (dying laughing)
Lineup today
SS Castro
2B Barney
RF LOU FUCKING MONTANEZ (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
3B Rodrigo
LF DeWitt
C Geo
1B Pena
CF Colvin
P Garza
[quote name=Berselius]Lineup today
SS Castro
2B Barney
RF LOU FUCKING MONTANEZ (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
3B Rodrigo
LF DeWitt
C Geo
1B Pena
CF Colvin
P Garza[/quote]
It just might work.
Oy vey.
[quote name=Berselius]Brad F Snyder ——> AAA
Casey Coleman —-> Iowa Cubs of Chicago[/quote]That’s probably a smart move. There’s no sense in keeping all these OF around if they aren’t going to play. Get someone here to give this staff some relief.
Lou Montanez in the 3-hole just made it a lot harder to defend Mike Quade’s decision-making. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I think if Reed and Baker had not gotten injured, we’d have seen a lot less of Barney as he cooled at the plate, and we’d have seen nothing but Reed in CF. Quade’s been kind of forced to play the players he’s played, and while I agree he’s probably done the best he can do, let’s not start cranking our own dicks here over his squad management. He lost his gamers.
Agreed on the HIll thing, though. I really like how he’s handled Soto even though Soto has been pretty bad at the dish.[/quote]
Valid point on Reed and Baker. However, so far this season those 2 lead the in in wOBA, flukey BABIP driven, but still. Without Byrd or Bjax on the team, I don’t see Reed blocking anyone of importance. And Baker playing over Barney wouldn’t be that big of a deal to me as Barney will not be a star, just nice valuable production on the cheap.
Plus cranking our own dicks is the only every reason to visit this site 60% of the time.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]That’s probably a smart move. There’s no sense in keeping all these OF around if they aren’t going to play. Get someone here to help this staff throw more batting practice.[/quote]
Great plan.
[quote name=Berselius]Brad F Snyder ——> DFA
Casey Coleman —-> Iowa Cubs of Chicago[/quote]
Correction
[quote name=Rice Cube]Great plan.[/quote]Let’s See What Happens.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Lou Montanez in the 3-hole just made it a lot harder to defend Mike Quade’s decision-making. (dying laughing)[/quote]
I am not sure they have 3 healthy batters on the 40 man roster that should be batting against Cliff Lee, but someone has to do it.
[quote name=Berselius]Correction[/quote]And somehow John Grabow still has a job. (dying laughing)
Moral of the story: teach your kid to throw lefty.
Lou Montanez is not left-handed.
[quote name=Rice Cube]It just might work.[/quote]
Ari told me that 60% of the time, it works every time.
Three lefty bats against a LHP…see what happens. Is campana a LHB?
[quote name=Bubba Biscuit]I am not sure they have 3 healthy batters on the 40 man roster that should be batting against Cliff Lee, but someone has to do it.[/quote]True, but still…that’s a bad one. I’d have gone Geo in the 3-spot, and dropped Montanez down the order to split up Pena and Colvin
[quote name=Berselius]Three lefty bats against a LHP…see what happens. Is campana a LHB?[/quote]Yup.
[quote name=Berselius]Three lefty bats against a LHP…see what happens. Is campana a LHB?[/quote]I think Quade’s up against his roster here. Campana’s a LHB, too.
It’s unfortunate that Campana is a LHB, since most of his grounders go to the right side, not allowing him to take full advantage of his speed (nor does it help that he slides into 1st base. I hate that.)
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I think Quade’s up against his roster here. Campana’s a LHB, too.[/quote]
(dying laughing), I can’t even remember who is on the roster anymore.
[quote name=ACT]It’s unfortunate that Campana is a LHB, since most of his grounders go to the right side, not allowing him to take full advantage of his speed (nor does it help that he slides into 1st base. I hate that.)[/quote]
He tries to bunt his way on sometimes but in a small sample size he’s been a pretty shitty bunter.
[quote name=Berselius](dying laughing), I can’t even remember who is on the roster anymore.[/quote]
Silly berselius, Who’s on first.
[quote name=ACT]It’s unfortunate that Campana is a LHB, since most of his grounders go to the right side, not allowing him to take full advantage of his speed (nor does it help that he slides into 1st base. I hate that.)[/quote]I’d hope Rudy’s working with him to learn to inside out all the 2-seamers that kid is going to see.
[quote name=Rice Cube]He tries to bunt his way on sometimes but in a small sample size he’s been a pretty shitty bunter.[/quote]0-for-5 so far. It would be nice to see what his minor league stats on this are.
[quote name=Berselius](dying laughing), I can’t even remember who is on the roster anymore.[/quote]More than anything else, this is why I’ll feel bad for Quade if he gets fired. I think he’s out of depth, but he’s also been given nothing to work with, even before the fucking injuries hit. (dying laughing)
Why base an opinion on what could have happened if so and so was healthy rather than what actually happened?
[quote name=Berselius]Lineup today
SS Castro
2B Barney
RF LOU FUCKING MONTANEZ (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
3B Rodrigo
LF DeWitt
C Geo
1B Pena
CF Colvin
P Garza[/quote](dying laughing) glad I’m going to be traveling for this one.
[quote name=ACT]0-for-5 so far. It would be nice to see what his minor league stats on this are.[/quote]FWIW, Campana had 15 sac bunts the last two seasons. Now, there’s a difference between bunting for hits and sac bunting, but one figures that Campana should be a better bunter than he shown. I can’t get Fangraphs to show me his MiLB BUH%. They must be busy editing Citsulli’s latest epic on the similarity of Earl Weaver’s pitching staff management and the poetry of Hölderlin.
[quote name=mb21]Why base an opinion on what could have happened if so and so was healthy rather than what actually happened?[/quote]Because that’s how opinions are formed. We have an opinion about a state of affairs. Then we look for facts on which to construct a belief. Supposing we find those facts, we look to the justification of those facts to form a piece of knowledge.
[quote name=mb21](dying laughing) glad I’m going to be traveling for this one.[/quote]No kidding. I’ve got a BBQ competition today, thankfully. (dying laughing)
The facts are Quade’s played Barney and Castro. But the factgs are also that Quade had no adequate backups for either of them. So it’s not like he made a good decision. He made the only decision available to him.
Eh, I always love watching Cliff Lee pitch, so I actually look forward to this game, even if it means putting up with FOX commentators.
[quote name=ACT]Eh, I always love watching Cliff Lee pitch, so I actually look forward to this game, even if it means putting up with FOX commentators.[/quote]Yeah, and it would be so Cubs to absolutely murder Cliff Lee. (dying laughing)
Last year’s Cubs managed to beat up on Halladay, Lincecum, Wainwright, Oswalt, and Carpenter, so anything can happen.
Yesterday was the first time Halladay actually beat the Cubs. They’ve been putting up good fights against good pitching.
[quote name=Josh]Yesterday was the first time Halladay actually beat the Cubs. They’ve been putting up good fights against good pitching.[/quote]Jaime Garcia disagrees. (dying laughing)
MLB realignment possibilities… Two fifteen team leagues. I could get on board with this.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6651634
[quote name=Rusty Shackelford]MLB realignment possibilities… Two fifteen team leagues. I could get on board with this.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6651634/quoteThat would be awesome.
[quote name=Rusty Shackelford]MLB realignment possibilities… Two fifteen team leagues. I could get on board with this.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=6651634/quote
2 – 15 team leagues makes a lot of sense, then balance interleague play and take home field out of the all star game for fuck’s sake
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, and it would be so Cubs to absolutely murder Cliff Lee. (dying laughing)[/quote]
If Ted Lilly was still here, he’d probably shank him right there on the mound.
[quote name=Bubba Biscuit]2 – 15 team leagues makes a lot of sense, then balance interleague play and take home field out of the all star game for fuck’s sake[/quote]
I’d be down with that. How are they going to reconcile the DH rule though?
Cliff Lee, over his career has essentially no platoon split ( .258 /.308 /.404 vs. RHB; .268 /.304 /.404 vs. LHB), so dramatically restructuring the lineup because he’s a southpaw makes no sense.
[quote name=ACT]Cliff Lee, over his career has essentially no platoon split ( .258 /.308 /.404 vs. RHB; .268 /.304 /.404 vs. LHB), so dramatically restructuring the lineup because he’s a southpaw makes no sense.[/quote]
I think the Cubs’ batter platoon splits would have to enter into the lineup restructuring, no? I thought Fukudome and Pena had tough times against LHP, which explains partly why Fukudome is out and Pena is dropped (Baker won’t be back until Monday).
[quote name=ACT]Cliff Lee, over his career has essentially no platoon split ( .258 /.308 /.404 vs. RHB; .268 /.304 /.404 vs. LHB), so dramatically restructuring the lineup because he’s a southpaw makes no sense.[/quote]I think while Quade has lucked into some sound decisions, saber-wise, I think he makes most of these kinds of decisions in line with “traditional” baseball thinking. And it’s not as if he has the kind of front office that might encourage him to do otherwise.
Dang, the Reds and Giants are on FOX too? I’d almost rather see that
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I think while Quade has lucked into some sound decisions, saber-wise, I think he makes most of these kinds of decisions in line with “traditional” baseball thinking. And it’s not as if he has the kind of front office that might encourage him to do otherwise.[/quote]
Maybe he and Ari have a system so that he always is informed when someone is a really good hitter on Thursdays in months with 30 days during a full moon.
deleted for redundant redundancy
Fack, I have Rangers-Twins
[quote name=Berselius]Fack, I have Rangers-Twins[/quote]
You don’t consider that a win? (dying laughing)
[quote name=Aisle424]Maybe he and Ari have a system so that he always is informed when someone is a really good hitter on Thursdays in months with 30 days during a full moon.[/quote]I think the Cubs are doing Quade’s career a great disservice by having him work under a scout fetishist in Hendry and selective endpoints specialist in Kaplan. If/when Quade is fired, he’s going to to go to another organization, and there aren’t many dinosaurs like the Cubs’ FO left around.
(dying laughing) @ insta-rain delay
[quote name=Berselius](dying laughing) @ insta-wussout[/quote]
.
Ryan Dempster’s glasses aren’t big enough (dying laughing)
Yay! Reds-Giants!
[quote name=Rice Cube]Ryan Dempster’s glasses aren’t big enough (dying laughing)[/quote]With his pitching career in a mess, Ryan’s decided to go prime-time with his Harry Caray impersonation.
Boo
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder].[/quote]
I don’t think the Phillies would ever declare a wussout against the Cubs (dying laughing)
[quote name=Rice Cube]I don’t think the Phillies would ever declare a wussout against the Cubs (dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing), call it a “mercyout,” then.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder](dying laughing), call it a “mercyout,” then.[/quote]
I can’t argue with you today.
AT&T Park is awesome. That is all.
[quote name=Rice Cube]AT&T Park is awesome. That is all.[/quote]Needs more urine and casual racism.
/Bleacher Creature
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Needs more urine and casual racism.
/Bleacher Creature[/quote]
They pee in the cove or in their kayaks.
[quote name=Rice Cube]They pee in the cove or in their kayaks.[/quote]During the 7th Inning?
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]During the 7th Inning?[/quote]
All day every day.
The SF folks had brilliance when setting up the location and build of their park.
[quote name=Rice Cube]All day every day.
The SF folks had brilliance when setting up the location and build of their park.[/quote]Yeah, it’s right up there with Camden Yards, GAB, and PNC as far brilliantly located stadium go.
How long is this delay supposed to be?
[quote name=Doogolas]How long is this delay supposed to be?[/quote]
103 years.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, it’s right up there with Camden Yards, GAB, and PNC as far brilliantly located stadium go.[/quote]
Also, the Rockies and Coors Field really helped turn around that part of downtown, that was good work.
[quote name=Bubba Biscuit]Also, the Rockies and Coors Field really helped turn around that part of downtown, that was good work.[/quote]
I wish the Rockies had been in town the last time I was in Denver, I really wanted to catch a game there.
[quote name=Doogolas]How long is this delay supposed to be?[/quote]Hopefully, through October.
[quote name=Rice Cube]103 years.[/quote]
(dying laughing)
[quote name=Rice Cube]I wish the Rockies had been in town the last time I was in Denver, I really wanted to catch a game there.[/quote]
I loved Coors field, though I don’t remember much of the details of it. Lots of great brewpubs within a stone’s throw of the stadium.
Damn speedy Victorino.
[quote name=Berselius]I loved Coors field, though I don’t remember much of the details of it. Lots of great brewpubs within a stone’s throw of the stadium.[/quote]
Only drove by it. Looked really nice. What I’ve seen of it from TV broadcasts is nice too.
Barney needs a day off. Or maybe to open his eyes.
/Asian making Asian joke
[quote name=Rice Cube]Only drove by it. Looked really nice. What I’ve seen of it from TV broadcasts is nice too.[/quote]
I’ve been to 3 games there. Was really pissed off my first time there, they didn’t let me in with my poster.
Go Cubs!
It’s a good day
For some Pie!
When Felix Pie was the starting CF, the guys at the gates thought it was sexual and had nothing to do with baseball. I said day doesn’t rhyme with pie in the sexual way, his last name is pee-yay spelled Pie.
Anyways, it is a nice park, good views from even the purple mile high line of seats. The seats near the foul poles on both sides are really good ones too, but those are the only places I have been in that stadium.
They’re really picking on Barney…that was a good stop but that error will cost the Cubs.
[quote name=Rice Cube]They’re really picking on Barney…that was a good stop but that error will cost the Cubs.[/quote]
Ricestradamus.
(dying laughing), Cubs
[quote name=Rice Cube]Barney needs a day off. Or maybe to open his eyes.
/Asian making Asian joke[/quote]The problem is there’s no backup but DeWitt, and he’s also the backup at 3B and a LHB. Quade’s got almost no options in the IF with everyday lineup.
No, the Cubs give up three runs to the Phillies then come back and win. That’s been the game plan since Day 1. Just because Z didn’t get the memo doesn’t mean they just change the plan.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]The problem is there’s no backup but DeWitt, and he’s also the backup at 3B and a LHB. Quade’s got almost no options in the IF with everyday lineup.[/quote]
Understandable, but tomorrow, play DeWitt at 2B and give Barney a day off since Oswalt is pitching.
The goal is to lower the overall ERA of the Phillies relief staff. It’s part of their master plan.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Understandable, but tomorrow, play DeWitt at 2B and give Barney a day off since Oswalt is pitching.[/quote]I’d like to see that. Quade’s going to burn out Barney (and maybe Castro).
[quote name=Rice Cube]Understandable, but tomorrow, give the fans a day off since they are injured.[/quote].
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=3B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=600869
somebody is trying to walk off the island
[quote name=Suburban kid].[/quote]
Nice snark.
The Philly Phanatic has fake boobs and is in drag. That was disturbing.
LOUUUUU!!!!
Lincecum has given up the same amount of ER as Z did last night. I doubt Hobbity McEnuch has noticed.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Lincecum has given up the same amount of ER as Z did last night. I doubt Hobbity McEnuch has noticed.[/quote]
He’s too white to be criticized. Surely you know this.
[quote name=Rice Cube]He’s too white to be criticized. Surely you know this.[/quote]It amazes me the degree to which every single one of Zs outings in so intensely scrutinized. I’ve never seen this happen with a Cubs pitcher, and maybe not any other pitcher in baseball.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It amazes me the degree to which every single one of Zs outings in so intensely scrutinized. I’ve never seen this happen with a Cubs pitcher, and maybe not any other pitcher in baseball.[/quote]
Z isn’t white. And he’s overpaid. And he’s got anger issues.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It amazes me the degree to which every single one of Zs outings in so intensely scrutinized. I’ve never seen this happen with a Cubs pitcher, and maybe not any other pitcher in baseball.[/quote]Seems like it started last year before his dugout tirade, and before the first bullpen test even. Early 2010. I think the hacks felt a void when Bradley left and Carlos has been filling it ever since. Good baseball would change the story, but there hasn’t been good baseball since July 2009.
I thought it started because Z denied the media’s sexual advances.
Making Lee throw a surprisingly high number of pitches.
What does “Hits” mean in our user profiles? I have 49.
[quote name=Suburban kid]What does “Hits” mean in our user profiles? I have 49.[/quote]
It’s how many hits you got off Cubs pitching in the last game.
Sigh…nobody will let the Z stuff die already.
What were the Foxdudes saying? I have it on mute with the radio on.
[quote name=Suburban kid]What were the Foxdudes saying? I have it on mute with the radio on.[/quote]
Just the usual crap about how you shouldn’t criticize a teammate’s pitch selection, and you’d better be perfect the next time out, Z is a cancer, blah blah blah.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Just the usual crap about how you shouldn’t criticize a teammate’s pitch selection, and you’d better be perfect the next time out, Z is a cancer, blah blah blah.[/quote]Ugh
I wonder who that guy with the radar gun and walkie talkie works for.
Mostly McCarver talking.
Doh! Garza! I blame the Matt Clement chin. That’s soooooo 2003.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Doh! Garza! I blame the Matt Clement chin. That’s soooooo 2003.[/quote]
He looks like a Bond villain.
That baseball card is pretty old skool.
I’m not gay, but I think that Peenya might be a good looking guy whereas Charlie Manuel and Ken Rosenthal are not.
Charlie Manuel’s middle name is Fuqua.
Marshall’s ASG bid takes a small hit.
Zonk is often just as incoherent as Ron was.
I could see Kosuke being the Cubs’ ASG rep. Although the mercy picks are probably not usually outfielders.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Marshall’s ASG bid takes a small hit.[/quote]As does Dewitt’s Gold Glove in LF bid. (dying laughing)
I really want them to pick Z just to say “fuck you” to the Chicago media.
Sweet. If Houston wins tonight, Cubs are only a game back of last place, and right now only a half-game back of Minnesota for #2 pick. It’s gonna happen!
If it makes anyone feel any better, Vitters has been killing it! He’s on a ten game hit streak right now, went 3/4 today with two doubles and has his batting average up to .290 and his OPS up to .784.
Peoria Chiefs:
Simpson done for the night 70 pitches…4ip, 7h, 5r, 2bb, 1k
BJax back in the lineup tonight in Tennessee, 1-for-4 with 2K and a TOOTBLAN. Wonder why he sat for three games.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0612-cubs-phillies-chicago–20110611,0,1149523.story
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/ct-spt-0612-bits-cubs-phillies-chicag20110611,0,6747636.story
Couldn’t find playing time for DJ. Sort of understandable, but seriously, leave him in Iowa then.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Because that’s how opinions are formed. We have an opinion about a state of affairs. Then we look for facts on which to construct a belief. Supposing we find those facts, we look to the justification of those facts to form a piece of knowledge.[/quote]
What facts? Point me to a single fact that supports this argument:
When Castro slumped, he’s played every day. When Soto has slumped (all season), he’s played nearly every inning he’s been healthy. When Dempster got off to an awful start that would have earned him a trip to Lou’s bullpen, Quade stuck with him and never overreacted. When Ramirez wasn’t hitting, he played. When Pena wasn’t hitting, he played. When Soriano went into a slump, he played. When Marmol slumped, there was no overreaction or discussion to remove him from the closer’s role. I’ve got player after player who has slumped and Quade has reacted in the EXACT opposite way you’re suggesting he would have if Darwin Barney slumped. Based on what has actually happened under Quade’s leadership of this team, there’s no reason whatsoever to think that Darwin Barney would have been replaced.
As for Reed, he’s the same as Colvin, Campana, Snyder, Montanez and the others so it doesn’t matter.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]The facts are Quade’s played Barney and Castro. But the factgs are also that Quade had no adequate backups for either of them. So it’s not like he made a good decision. He made the only decision available to him.[/quote]Wouldn’t have stopped Lou.
Reed Johnson ———–> hit in the head during rehab PA, taken to hospital.
You can’t make this shit up.
[quote name=Berselius]Reed Johnson ———–> hit in the head during rehab PA, taken to hospital.
You can’t make this shit up.[/quote]
*sad face*
Not that he’s our savior or anything, but it really sucks for him to be smacked in the head when he’s just about ready to come back. Hopefully no bad damage or concussion.
Ted Lilly stole a base.
Some domestic (dying laughing)s: http://www.27bslash6.com/crashholly.html
[quote name=Suburban kid]Some domestic (dying laughing)s: http://www.27bslash6.com/crashholly.html/quote
Did you read this e-mail on the moon?
[quote name=Suburban kid]What does “Hits” mean in our user profiles? I have 49.[/quote]If I didn’t have the cache set so high it would be the actual number of times other people have viewed your profile, but the cache is set fairly high so it’s not accurate. I don’t know why they have it.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Some domestic (dying laughing)s: http://www.27bslash6.com/crashholly.html/quoteIf that’s true, David has to be an asshole to be live with.
Reedz + Baker —> Wrigley on Monday. Reed is OK.
New knuckleballer:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15774773
Apparently his pitches were so slow that while they weren’t knuckleballs, they pretty much broke Pitchf/x because they couldn’t be identified.
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=3B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=600869
our savior
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=3B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=600869
our savior[/quote]How many times is that going to be said here? I think Ryno said it and then GW said it and now you. (dying laughing)
Soriano bats third for I-Cubs today.
Fukudome RF
Barney 2B
Castro SS
Pena 1B
Ramirez 3B
DeWitt LF
Colvin CF
Hill C
Davis P
[quote name=mb21]How many times is that going to be said here? I think Ryno said it and then GW said it and now you. (dying laughing)[/quote]
Jeimer is Spanish for “Mark DeRosa”.
[quote name=ACT]Ted Lilly stole a base.[/quote]Grinder.
[quote name=GBTS]Grinder.[/quote]
Damn. Now I’m hungry.
So, the Cardinals get the Rays, Orioles, and Blue Jays in interleague play. The Brewers get the Rays, Yankees, and Red Sox.
That makes sense.
I don’t think Barney has had a day off since May 8th or 9th or so.
New Game thread: http://www.obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/games/davis-vs-goliath.html