Rangers land Ryan Dempster
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) July 31, 2012
Will add more about Ryan Dempster once it's officially official.
Others hearing the same thing
Looks like Dempster to
#Rangers, working on confirmation— Scott Miller (@ScottMCBS) July 31, 2012
The Dodgers apparently have lost out on Ryan Dempster, who likely will go to Texas.
— Ken Gurnick (@kengurnick) July 31, 2012
CSN Chicago is confirming the trade though the return is still unknown.
Ken Rosenthal tweets that the Cubs will acquire two pitchers.
Two Class A pitchers going from
#Rangers to#Cubs for Dempster.— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 31, 2012
The Cubs received Kyle Hendricks, RHP, and Christian Villanueva, 3B, in exchange for Dempster according to sources.
Sources: Rangers send 3B Christian Villanueva and RHP Kyle Hendricks to Cubs for Dempster.
— Evan Grant (@Evan_P_Grant) July 31, 2012
Also
did not expect that to happen
Dodgers lost out on all the big arms. Big FAIL for that FO.
man, lots of drama right there at the end.
two minor leaguers back
@ GW:
me neither, but it’s funny because I saw a tweet earlier today from someone who must cover the Rangers and he said they’d wait until the others are out and land him at the last minute. Either the guy was just predicting and got lucky or had a pretty good idea they would have the best offer.
Two A ball pitchers for Dempster
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
The Dodger’s plan seems to be “rent a Ramirez.” the end.
Robothal correction: A-ball pitcher and A-ball position player
@ mb21:
i was thinking nats/dodgers, who along with the braves make up the axis of saberlessness
@ Berselius:
Sounds okay for just Demp.
So i take it garza is staying
@ bubblesdachimp:
For now. Can’t imagine any team would have paid much to get him while on the sidelines.
The Dodgers Britta’d it.
Kind of surprised LaHair didn’t get dealt today. I was going to be very surprised if either Garza or Soriano was moved, but I thought there was a good chance LaHair would be. He was really the only other guy other than Dempster who I thought would be moved today.
Garza if traded doesnt know yet…
However what time did the Nomar news break?
@ bubblesdachimp:
heyman says no deal
Kudos to Dempster, who got to go to a real championship type club and also stay in Arizona for the winter and spring like he wanted.
Sounds like he really blindsided the Dodgers (and Cubs beat writers).
@ bubblesdachimp:
I think Nomar broke around 3:05.
Alright well interesting to see who we got.
@ mb21:
He’s been so bad in June and July after a tepid May that I think he torpedoed the minimal trade value he had. 13 XBH in first 70 PA, 13 XBH in 232 subsequent PA.
Suburban kid wrote:
I liked it when the Dodgers were out and it was left to the Yankees and Rangers. Figured if he goes the Yankees he goes the best team in baseball and the best franchise in sports. If he goes to the Rangers he goes the next best team and a team that seems intent on winning year in and year out. Both teams are completely different than the Cubs right now.
Shocked Camp or Russell didnt get moved
3B Chris Villanueva and RHP Kyle Hendricks from TEX for Dempster
christian villanueva and kyle hendricks
Really like the dempster deal.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/christian-villanueva-texas-rangers-third-base-prospect-sleeper/
@ GW:
I added that to the post, but I’m way too fucking burned to look into these guys right now. Saw Villanueva was ranked 10th by Sickels and graded B-.
@ bubblesdachimp:
I don’t really know anything about either, but my first impression is the same.
They’re no Randall Delgado, much closer to the return we figured the Cubs would get.
@ Berselius:
Don’t you like anything?
@ mb21:
Jon Heyman @JonHeymanCBS
scout says christian villanueva, young 3b who went to #cubs in rangers deal is quite good. top 100 prospect in baseball.
I mean i like starters who dont walk people and the third baseman looks intriguing
So, which Cubs from the 2008 team are remaining? All I can think of are Soriano and Marmol.
I like the idea on Villanueva, Rangers are stacked at 3rd, so try to get a talented guy who is blocked twice over. No idea if he’s any good, though.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/7/31/3207334/chicago-cubs-trade-ryan-dempster-to-texas-rangers-for-prospects
GW wrote:
Lots of comps to Martin Prado, can play 2B or OF if needed, but solid glove at 3B, touch more power for less OBP than Prado.
Hendricks doesnt give up many home runs. Doesnt give up lots of hits and walks no one..
The third bagger hits for some pop gets on base and is young. I like
@ bubblesdachimp:
hit rate on hendricks is nothing special. walks are great, ground ball rate is high, strikeouts are ok.
@ Rizzo the Rat:
Oh, and Samardzija and Wells. That rounds it out, I think.
Good day.
From Sickles
10) Christian Villanueva, 3B, Grade B-: Hitting .285/.356/.421 with 10 homers, 24 walks, 83 strikeouts in 375 at-bats in High-A, nine steals. He is playing very well defensively and the bat has potential. Often gets overlooked in the Rangers system and is blocked behind Olt, but if I were trading with the Rangers I would ask about this guy.
@ bubblesdachimp:
Yeah, looking at Hendricks numbers, very nice. High A ball, 20 starts 130 2/3 innings 7.71 k/9 1.03 BB/9 2.76 FIP Started the year somewhere around 30th best prospect in Texas’s system and his year so far would have him climb up into top 20 or 25 for them.
@ BubbaBiscuit:
I looked at his age and thought “kinda old” but the numbers are pretty nice.
kg says hendricks is a throw-in
Indians got
Matt LaPortaLars Anderson.how on earth is kendricks a throw in.
We have no pitching prospects or didn’t until yesterday, nobody is going to count that fucker, PJ Francescon. Hendricks could be a right handed Tommy Milone.
says villanueva is solid all-around, no real great tools.
@ dylanj:
he is old. it’s nice for throw-ins to have great numbers rather than the other way around.
he’s 22 and in AA. That’s the right age
dylanj wrote:
High A
http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/2012/07/kyle-hendricks/
@ dylanj:
B-Ref said Advanced-A…I think he saw limited action in AA last year according to his B-Ref page.
@ GW:
Ah shit, I have been trying to avoid that fucking Hope Monster® for weeks but that article let that bastard catch me. That and a practically 1 BB/9 ratio, dammit.
@ dylanj:
(dying laughing) my thought exactly.
No one i have seen is big on Hendricks…
However i have hard time being too mad right now… I prefer Vizcaino to delgado.
btw, kg’s comments were from an interview on the score. i’m guessing they will put up a podcast for that later.
neftali feliz —–> TJ surgery
I don’t think Hendricks will be anything special but since when is 22 old for high A? It’s not young but it’s not old either.
hoyer says it was rangers or staying with the cubs for demp
oswalt —> bullpen
kind of surprising.
Here’s BaPro’s Transaction Analysis on the Dempster trade: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17851
@ GW:
Not really. 6 GS, 34.1 IP, 54 H, 27 R, 7 HR, 7 BB, 29 K, 1 HBP.
@ mb21:
It’s about the league-average age, but the vast majority of players there aren’t real prospects.
@ Rizzo the Rat:
Paywall
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
he’s still better than feldman.
if they move ogando to the rotation, then it’s absolutely the right move.
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
OK, I’ll summarize:
Villanueva: Lacks weaknesses, projects to be a .280 hitter who might be able to hit 15-20 homers. Good defender, could be average MLB third baseman.
Hendricks: Good control, lackluster stuff.
@ Rizzo the Rat:
Any mention of the zone judgment problems Sickels mentioned for Villaneuva?
http://www.csnchicago.com/baseball-chicago-cubs/cubs-talk/Kap-Cubs-didnt-maximize-return-for-Demps?blockID=749245&feedID=8487
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Nope.
dammit
@ GW:
Corey was awesome in Goonies.
rangers taking on $5M in the deal, according to fangraphs.
I wish Ryno was around because he could speak to both sides of this deal.
@ Rizzo the Rat:
He’s below league average but that’s irrelevant. 21 year old drafted out of college begins no higher than low A. Most start lower. If 22 is old for high A people need to look at this differently. It’s not reasonable to think 22 is old for high A. At least not unless you’re going to say all college draft picks are old for their level and that kind of disproves if an entire class in the draft is old for its level.
i think moore is talking out of his ass on that, though. haven’t seen the financials anywhere else.
@ mb21:
most juniors are younger than that.
There are all of 12 pitchers in the Florida State League who are under 22. There are 17 in the Carolina League. If 22 is old for High A, all but 29 qualified pitchers in High A are old for that level. There are 52 batters in High A under 22.
Kaplan seems down on the trade. What could the FO do about Delgado? Dude turned it down. Not their fault.
@ GW:
No. Here are the qualifications for entering the MLB draft for those who attend 4-year colleges:
College players, from four-year colleges who have either completed their junior or senior years or are at least 21 years old or within 45 days of turning 21.
A draft eligible sophomore, the youngest 4-year college draftees are within 45 days of turning 21.
@ mb21:
29 starters/ 52 hitters. sounds about right to me.
Cardenas is the other callup. Castillo, Cardenas, and Coleman all called up.
mb21 wrote:
(dying laughing) what are we doing again? most seniors are 22. juniors are 21 or 20.
As I said, a player picked form a 4-year college is 21 years old (at a minimum of 45 days prior to turning 21). They rarely begin any higher than the first full season league, which is low A. Most of them begin in rookie league and then get bumped quickly to short-season A ball. 21 is not too old for Low A because of this. It cannot be too old and you can’t possibly expect the next level to have the same age as the one before it. 22 is not young for HIgh A, but it’s not at all too old either. A college player who is drafted and signs quickly will likely find himself in High A at some point in his age 22 season. It may be to start the season, but more likely it’s after a promotion. Most aren’t even at High A yet.
I really think we just got Martin Prado and the right handed Tommy Milone for Demp. Looking at 2 more years of seasoning for Kendricks, and 1 or 2 for Villanueva. I think they did great work here with Dempster limiting their options, which was certainly well within his rights.
@ mb21:
yeah, it’s a fair point. ideally your specs are in aa at 22, though. i mean, don’t get me wrong, this guy is probably our second best pitching prospect, and it sounds like he doesn’t break 90.
how old is franceson? 24?
http://muskat.mlblogs.com/2012/07/31/731-dempster-moves-on/
dempster was in hoyer’s office as the deal was being completed.
In other important breaking news, my fantasy baseball team for the OV league has changed names from They Smashed My Boombox to Mike Trout and The Pips.
@ GW:
Agreed, but I was responding to your comment when you said most were younger than 21. Your comment was responding to mine when I spelled out why a 22 year old can’t be too old for High A. With the exception of draft eligible sophomore of which there aren’t all that many, you have to be 21 to enter the draft if you attend a 4-year college. The only possible way 22 can be old for High A is if we’re expecting a good portion of them to be at AA in their first full season as a pro. Mark Prior was a can’t miss prospect ready for big league action when he was drafted and he began his career in AA at only a year younger than that.
@ mb21:
most prospects, i said. and the number of qualified starters you found sounds about right to me (~80 prospects at that level). i granted your point. what more do you want from me?
@ GW:
I’ve always looked at it slightly differently. I’m looking at about a year older than you, but I’m also looking at service time. I think service time is way underrated by people. This guy will be at AA shortly in his first full professional season. That’s good no matter how you look at it.
I”m with you in that I don’t see much of a future here, but he is a guy who could surprise because of his GB rate and walk rate.
I know Vitters is only 22, but the dude has been in professional baseball for 6 seasons. I don’t see him as being all that young for AAA even though a lot of other people would say he’s way young. I try to combine the two and in Vitters’ case he’s young by age and about right by service time. I’d say he’s a bit young, but I think there’s just more to it than age.
On first cut, now that I’m home from the airport, seems that the Cubs did pretty good at the deadline, and the Dempster deal shows promise. Hopefully these guys they got have ceilings more than one level above where they are now.
I’m surprised that Baker didn’t get traded, particularly if the Cubs really were talking to the Yanks. He seemed like a good fill-in/platoon with Chavez at 3B while ARod was out. Also kind of surprised that Camp is still here. Frankly, I’m glad Soto was traded. Not from any ill will, it’s fun to root for a Boricua that I saw play in Memphis, but I felt like we’d seen what he could do, and it was time to see what Clev and Wel can do, with little loss to the team.
phil rogers says garza to the dbacks talk was happening. i’m guessing this is what rosenthal was hinting at.
@ GW:
Clearly he’s not young for his level, but I don’t think that makes him old. Then again, I clearly look at these things differently. My only issue is that if 22 is young then college picks are always playing catch up. There might be some truth to it, but it does take time to switch to wood bats or get used to the life as a professional. I’d say Hendricks is just about right all things considered and if he ends the year at AA with a decent sample you’d have to be thrilled with that.
SVB wrote:
i’m a little surprised by that, too, only because his name has come up quite a bit in the past, including in the theo compensation talks. he seems like a guy most teams want to take off your hands.
John Danks ————–> out for the remainder of the season
@ GW:
MB didn’t get enough sleep last night because he was thinking about Viscaino. (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
Anyway, a funny line from Muscat:
Makes me wonder exactly what the rave was about. Maybe Wash can cook up a mean KC BBQ.
mb21 wrote:
This is actually one of the things I look for in certain minor league players. I think the ability to get AA in your first full professional season sets you apart from the others. Below AA you’re just kind of playing to not be weeded out and get to the high minors. Once you get to AA your chance of reaching the big leagues increases significantly and to get to that point in a year, I think, is impressive. Others things are important too, but adjusting this quickly is definitely one of them.
@ mb21:
agreed. sounds like with his stuff, the high minors will be a good test for him, as well.
@ GW:
Rogers also was calling on Cubs to include Jamie Russell in trades today.
@ GW:
That’s where I think we see him decline a bit, but I’m hoping not. That kind of control isn’t common and it’s valuable. So is the GB frequency for a Cubs pitching prospect. What happens if he keeps up his 7.5+ K/9 and excellent walk rate at AA? I’m not counting on it at all. I expect we’ll see the K rate drop to 6, but he becomes a legit prospect at that point in my opinion. He has a lot to prove, but he’s someone to watch and the Cubs system lacks that when it comes to pitching. I”m hoping the cubs bump him to AA.
@ SVB:
Dempster did his Harry Caray impersonation on the phone, and Wash laughed.
With Demps about to be newly single, maybe Wash knows where to score the best hookers and blow in Texas?
@ BubbaBiscuit:
Note that the article BubbaB linked says Villanueva has “explosive hands” and “lightning quick feet.”
And despite Kap’s complaints that the Cubs didn’t get enough for Demp, it seems that others think both guys will make it to the Majors. So that’s better than what they got for Lilly, if the “others” are correct. Even if neither is a high impact guy, getting two good parts for 2 mo of Demp seems like a good trade to me.
new shit: http://www.obstructedview.net/other-topics/post-deadline-open-thread.html
someone mentioned tommy milone. his groundball rates were never quite as high as hendricks’. I hate to say it, but chris rusin might also be a fair comp, though he was a year behind where hendricks is at. (i’m using first inning for gb data).