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  • On Theo

    The following comment by Smokestack Lightning was such a good one that it deserves to be highlighted on the front page.

    Quoting dylanj:

    Friedman is my first choice simply because I think what he is doing is harder than what Theo did. Go write him a very very large check.

    I have mad respect for Friedman too but to disregard “what Theo did” as not as impressive as Friedman is not, in my opinion, taking a hard look at what he’s built and how he’s done it.

    The Red Sox minor league system has been a veritable gold mine for awhile now, and of the current productive core in place, only Adrian Gonzalez and Beckett didn’t come up through the system (and they were purchased with the system). That leaves Pedroia, Youkilis, Ellsbury, Lester, Papelbon, Bard, Buchholz. That’s a pretty goddamned good yield, and without the benefit of an endless stream of number one picks either.

    As far as free agent signings go…yeah Theo’s hit and missed. But that’s every GM with dollars to spend. And to be fair here, most of the moves Theo made were lauded at the time (and many of them worked out too), including the current millstone being hung around his neck, John Lackey, who was a 4 WAR pitcher before he signed with Boston, was paid like a 4 WAR pitcher, and, in his first year, produced a 4 WAR season. That he cracked up this year and pitched like utter dogshit (as bad as he was, he still put up 1.5 WAR) wasn’t something anybody thought would happen as fast as it did. But hey, shit happens.

    And as mb astutely pointed out, who is to say Friedman would fare any better with a bigger payroll? It’s not a guarantee that he would just because he’s done so well with a small one (this is the guy who, with pocket change to spend on the free agent market, thought Pat Burrell and the remains of Manny Ramirez would be good ideas, so it’s not just a string of number one hits here). Additionally, there are other unknowns with Friedman, including the ability to handle the pressure of a big market, and especially one like Chicago. Not one of the seven fans who go to Tampa games could pick Friedman out of a lineup even if he was wearing a big sign that said “hey you assholes, I’m Andrew Fucking Friedman” while in Boston, those crazy motherfuckers can pick Theo out of a crowd while wearing a gorilla suit on Halloween. There’s no such thing as “media pressure” in St. Petersburg. Do they even have a fucking newspaper outside of the Del Boca Vista Breeze?

    Whereas Theo’s thrived in one of the most stressful sports environments there is, with a lynch mob for a fan base and an ownership group and team president who, to put it mildly, like to meddle. This is not to take anything away from Friedman, an excellent GM who has found quite a bit of success the past few years in spite of his own set of difficult circumstances (and if he ends up being the guy, count me on board), but Theo’s a fucking rock star, the PR home run, the guy you go after first.


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    261 Responses to “On Theo”

    1. 1 Berselius says:

      Not just all the number 1 picks, but the 1st round picks, supplemental 1st round and overall number of top 5 round picks heavily favors the Rays. And then the Red Sox are an organization that will trade players away from time to time whereas the Rays absolutely cannot trade prospects.

      FWIW all those first round/supplemental picks come from the fact that the Rays cannot sign their own FAs or other FAs that require compensation.

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    2. 2 Berselius says:

      Del Boca Vista Breeze

      Still (dying laughing) at this. It also helps that the Del Boca Vista Breeze is entirely made up of articles about which restaurants have the best Early Bird specials and bragging about grandchildren.

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    3. 3 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Berselius]FWIW all those first round/supplemental picks come from the fact that the Rays cannot sign their own FAs or other FAs that require compensation.[/quote]Of course. I just kind of assumed that most around here knew that. Look, I’m not trying to say Friedman isn’t good because he obviously is, but Theo has built as productive a farm system as the Rays have and he’s done it without several of the advantages the Rays have had. Trading Hanley Ramirez is something the Rays would never do. They couldn’t and as a result, their own production from the farm system looks better than the Red Sox, but the reality is that there’s little difference and it may even favor the Sox. Anibal Sanchez was in that deal for Beckett too.

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    4. 4 WaLi says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Still (dying laughing) at this. It also helps that the Del Boca Vista Breeze is entirely made up of articles about which restaurants have the best Early Bird specials and bragging about grandchildren.[/quote]Pinko commie rag.

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    5. 5 mb21 says:

      SL said it better than I could, but right here is perfect:

      This is not to take anything away from Friedman, an excellent GM who has found quite a bit of success the past few years in spite of his own set of difficult circumstances (and if he ends up being the guy, count me on board), but Theo’s a fucking rock star, the PR home run, the guy you go after first.

      If Theo comes to Chicago and doesn’t reach the ultimate goal, everybody can say they hired the best guy available. If they hire Friedman and the same happens everybody is saying that they passed on Theo. You definitely go after Theo first and if he’s available you sign him. He’s as sure thing as it gets. Friedman definitely isn’t.

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    6. 6 GBTS says:

      The following comment by Smokestack Lightning was such a good one that we decided to cut it short.

      /Quade’d

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    7. 7 Berselius says:

      [quote name=mb21]Of course. I just kind of assumed that most around here knew that. Look, I’m not trying to say Friedman isn’t good because he obviously is, but Theo has built as productive a farm system as the Rays have and he’s done it without several of the advantages the Rays have had. Trading Hanley Ramirez is something the Rays would never do. They couldn’t and as a result, their own production from the farm system looks better than the Red Sox, but the reality is that there’s little difference and it may even favor the Sox. Anibal Sanchez was in that deal for Beckett too.[/quote]
      My bad, just misinterpreted what you were saying.

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    8. 8 mb21 says:

      If you factor in players traded I’ll bet $50 that the Red Sox have produced more WAR from their farm system from 2006 through 2011 than the Rays system has produced. It would be easiest to check rWAR so if someone wants to take that bet, let me know.

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    9. 9 Berselius says:

      [quote name=mb21]If you factor in players traded I’ll bet $50 that the Red Sox have produced more WAR from their farm system from 2006 through 2011 than the Rays system has produced. It would be easiest to check rWAR so if someone wants to take that bet, let me know.[/quote]
      On the other hand, the Rays are sure hoping that guys like Moore, Hellickson, and Jennings sign on with Longoria’s agent (dying laughing)

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    10. 10 GBTS says:

      I just watched Breaking Bad last night and threw my two cents in on The Kid. Am curious to see what other people think.

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    11. 11 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Berselius]My bad, just misinterpreted what you were saying.[/quote]Don’t let it happen again. (dying laughing)

      I was just trying to be brief and quickly point out the advantages that the Rays have had in building a farm system: higher 1st round picks, more 1S picks, more overall 1st through 5th round picks, not trading prospects and so on.

      I also feel like highlighting the farm systems so much ignores the many other aspects of being a general manager. There is little doubt whatsoever and I don’t think anyone would argue that the Red Sox MLB team has been more successful in Theo’s time there than the Rays have been under Friedman. Theo undoubtedly is better prepared to deal with the media and fans (Chicago actually has some).

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    12. 12 mb21 says:

      Evan Longoria has been, by far, the most productive player produced from the Rays farm system since Friedman has been around. Interestingly, Longoria was drafted in the 1st round by the Red Sox and refused to sign.

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    13. 13 mb21 says:

      [quote name=GBTS]I just watched Breaking Bad last night and threw my two cents in on The Kid. Am curious to see what other people think.[/quote]I responded.

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    14. 14 mb21 says:

      I figure with Theo there is a high certainty that the Cubs will be very good for a long time and may even win a championship (or more). I think there is a good chance the same is true with Friedman, but I don’t see how it can be as high a certainty as with Theo. Theo would be leaving the Red Sox for, well, the Red Sox in the NL Central. Actually, he’d be leaving the Red Sox for the Yankees of the NL Central in terms of payroll.

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    15. 15 Dr. Aneus Taint says:

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    16. 16 GBTS says:

      [quote name=mb21]Interestingly, Longoria was drafted in the 1st round by the Red Sox and refused to sign.[/quote]When was this? I know he went undrafted out of high school.

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    17. 17 Aisle424 says:

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    18. 18 mb21 says:

      [quote name=GBTS]When was this? I know he went undrafted out of high school.[/quote]2004: http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/index.cgi?team_ID=BOS&year_ID=2004&draft_type=junreg&query_type=franch_year

      2nd round. For some reason I was thinking it was 1st round. He was the first pick by the Sox that year.

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    19. 19 mb21 says:

      Can you imagine the Sox with Hanley and Longoria on the left side of the infield? (dying laughing)

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    20. 20 GBTS says:

      [quote name=mb21]2004: http://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/index.cgi?team_ID=BOS&year_ID=2004&draft_type=junreg&query_type=franch_year

      2nd round. For some reason I was thinking it was 1st round. He was the first pick by the Sox that year.[/quote]?

      Am I missing something? That says Pedroia.

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    21. 21 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Aisle424][/quote]The irony here is delicious.

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    22. 22 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      Theo Epstein? Ummmm, I think you’re all confused. Tom Ricketts has actually asked permission to speak with Juan Luis Pedro Phillipo DeHuevos Epstein. In case you don’t believe me, I have a note from Epstein’s mother.

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    23. 23 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Aisle424][/quote]
      I’m more than happy to mock WBC for being morons, but I don’t really see the big joke here. It’s not like they’re calling for a boycott on Apple products.

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    24. 24 mb21 says:

      [quote name=GBTS]?

      Am I missing something? That says Pedroia.[/quote](dying laughing) no, I’m an idiot. I always get those two confused. (dying laughing) wow, I am fucking stupid.

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    25. 25 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Berselius]I’m more than happy to mock WBC for being morons, but I don’t really see the big joke here. It’s not like they’re calling for a boycott on Apple products.[/quote]I think the irony is that they are using a tool created by a sinner.

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    26. 26 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=mb21](dying laughing) no, I’m an idiot. I always get those two confused. (dying laughing) wow, I am fucking stupid.[/quote]All you white people look alike.

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    27. 27 GBTS says:

      [quote name=mb21](dying laughing) no, I’m an idiot. I always get those two confused. (dying laughing) wow, I am fucking stupid.[/quote](dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)

      Well, to be fair, they’re both gritty infielders.

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    28. 28 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]I think the irony is that they are using a tool created by a sinner.[/quote]
      If that’s their criteria, they should all be living in the fucking woods.

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    29. 29 mb21 says:

      [quote name=GBTS](dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)

      Well, to be fair, they’re both gritty infielders.[/quote]I wonder how many other times I’ve confused the two. I know it’s a lot.

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    30. 30 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Berselius]If that’s their criteria, they should all be living in the fucking woods.[/quote]Can it be the woods as fucking far away from Topeka as possible? I suggest they find a heavy patch of vegetation at the bottom of the ocean.

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    31. 31 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      Damn. Must be a buncha whippersnappers in here when Welcome Back Kotter jokes fall flat.

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    32. 32 GBTS says:

      [quote name=Berselius]If that’s their criteria, they should all be living in the fucking woods.[/quote]With that Godless Smokey the Bear faget?

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    33. 33 Berselius says:

      I take that back. They should live in the regular woods. Obviously the fucking woods are full of sinners.

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    34. 34 GBTS says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Damn. Must be a buncha people under 35 in here when Welcome Back Kotter jokes fall flat.[/quote].

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    35. 35 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Damn. Must be a buncha whippersnappers in here when Welcome Back Kotter jokes fall flat.[/quote]
      That must have been a show you recently enjoyed.

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    36. 36 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=Berselius]That must have been a show you recently enjoyed.[/quote]Oh, indeed.

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    37. 37 mb21 says:

      Did we ever figure out how Theo Epstein was worth $300 million in tax money?

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    38. 38 Rice Cube says:

      Yesterday:

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    39. 39 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=mb21]Did we ever figure out how Theo Epstein was worth $300 million in tax money?[/quote]You have to factor in the compound interest from the Silva money.

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    40. 40 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      I think Victorino broke the space-time continuum.

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    41. 41 Berselius says:

      [quote name=mb21]Did we ever figure out how Theo Epstein was worth $300 million in tax money?[/quote]
      He has an extra stadium in his back yard.

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    42. 42 Rice Cube says:

      This is an interesting link:

      http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rays-succeed-on-the-field-but-not-at-the-ticket-office/

      It’s kind of weird to see how much better the Cubs draw than the White Sox in the same metro area and despite the fact that the White Sox have won more in the past couple years.

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    43. 43 Berselius says:

      Seriously though I don’t know what Chuck was talking about, unless he was simply talking about having a winning team. But that’s only if the difference is between Epstein and Randy Bush, and even then I don’t know that it’s a $300m difference.

      From what I can tell of the Sox FO it’s Lucchino who is their business guy when it came to reviving Fenway (he was also involved in Camden Yards, etc.). Less than zero chance that Lucchino would be coming along with Epstein given their relationship.

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    44. 44 dylanj says:

      maybe Chuck thinks banks will suddenly go “oh THEO EPSTEIN is the GM!?” Well then heres 300 mill at subprime. Go build Wrigley 2.0.

      Intangibles people.

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    45. 45 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=dylanj]maybe Chuck thinks banks will suddenly go “oh THEO EPSTEIN is the GM!?” Well then heres 300 mill at subprime. Go build Wrigley 2.0.

      Intangibles people.[/quote]I would (dying laughing)

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    46. 46 mb21 says:

      [quote name=dylanj]maybe Chuck thinks banks will suddenly go “oh THEO EPSTEIN is the GM!?” Well then heres 300 mill at subprime. Go build Wrigley 2.0.

      Intangibles people.[/quote](dying laughing) it doesn’t make any sense to me and apparently all people not named Chuck. It’s strange.

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    47. 47 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=dylanj]maybe Chuck thinks banks will suddenly go “oh THEO EPSTEIN is the GM!?” Well then heres 300 mill at subprime. Go build Wrigley 2.0.

      Intangibles people.[/quote]That seems to be the sentiment. I still don’t know why Chuck thinks that to be the case, though.

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    48. 48 WenningtonsGorillaCock says:

      I mentioned that when “Catching Hell” was premiering that my dad makes a brief appearance in it b/c he had a book coming out. Well, it’s out now on Amazon and Kindle. I posted a FanShot Unobstructed View about it, but don’t know what I’m doing so I’m not sure if it’ll show up or not (dying laughing) Anyway, the link is below if you want to check it out. It basically analyzes the play from a rules perspective. It is their contention that the umpires blew the call and that it should have been ruled fan interference. It’s fairly entertaining and convincing.

      http://www.amazon.com/Mad-Ball-Walter-J-Yurkanin/dp/0983812837/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317912778&sr=8-1

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    49. 49 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      Alright, I’m off to teach. Today I get to use George Will’s latest hamfisted William F. Buckley wannabe column to illustrate the perils of poor reasoning.

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    50. 50 Berselius says:

      [quote name=dylanj]maybe Chuck thinks banks will suddenly go “oh THEO EPSTEIN is the GM!?” Well then heres 300 mill at subprime. Go build Wrigley 2.0.

      Intangibles people.[/quote]
      I don’t think Chuck thinks that. He knows that it will take more than $300 mil (dying laughing)

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    51. 52 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Berselius]He has an extra stadium in his back yard.[/quote]
      Also, all of the Chicago politics related bodies are buried there.

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    52. 53 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Berselius]I don’t think Chuck thinks that. He knows that it will take more than $300 mil (dying laughing)[/quote]Then what the hell is he saying? Is money going to grow on trees in Illinois if Theo is hired?

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    53. 55 mb21 says:

      [quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]Sweet – thanks[/quote]To find the post you should always be able to click on the Unobstructed Views link on the menu and it should be there. The link on the sidebar here takes a little while to update as it’s using a cache since it doesn’t often change.

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    54. 56 mb21 says:

      here is the Unobstructed Views blog: http://www.obstructedview.net/unobstructed-views/

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    55. 58 Berselius says:

      TCU ———> B12

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    56. 59 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      I agree that Theo would be the better choice for the Cubs. But in terms of how he drafted v. Friedman, did you guys look at the amount spent on the draft?

      I’m assuming Theo went overslot much more and the Rays drafted within their means- and almost always identifying the right players.

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    57. 60 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]I agree that Theo would be the better choice for the Cubs. But in terms of how he drafted v. Friedman, did you guys look at the amount spent on the draft?

      I’m assuming Theo went overslot much more and the Rays drafted within their means- and almost always identifying the right players.[/quote]
      Not really sure what you’re trying to say here. I’m sure the Rays would have loved to go overslot if they could. It also helps that the Rays generally had higher picks than the Sox. A lot tougher to get value without grabbing tough signs when you’re drafting in the mid 20s every year.

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    58. 61 Aisle424 says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Not really sure what you’re trying to say here. I’m sure the Rays would have loved to go overslot if they could. It also helps that the Rays generally had higher picks than the Sox. A lot tougher to get value without grabbing tough signs when you’re drafting in the mid 20s every year.[/quote]I’m not sure we can say that the Red Sox almost certainly spent more money on the draft than the Rays simply because they have more money.

      Without looking it up (because Aramis Ramirez has been a bad influence on me), it is entirely possible (and maybe even probable) that theRays spent more on the draft.

      What is $2.5 million going to get you on the FA market? Aaron Miles if you’re Jim Hendry. $2.5 million gets you Dillon Maples in the draft. A small market team would be foolish not to allocate more of its less plentiful dollars in an area that could net them a higher ceiling of talent than the quick-fix route of paying for what a FA has done for another team.

      Like I said, I don’t know this to be true, but it is very likely in my opinion.

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    59. 62 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      I guess I was wondering if Friedman has been better via the draft since it’s probable he spent less money- which I do not know to be true. I will try to look it up.

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    60. 63 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      A sample here:

      From 2008-2010 the Red Sox spent $28,274,800

      The Rays in that same period spent $21,076,300

      I will try to look for more.

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    61. 64 WenningtonsGorillaCock says:

      [quote name=mb21]To find the post you should always be able to click on the Unobstructed Views link on the menu and it should be there. The link on the sidebar here takes a little while to update as it’s using a cache since it doesn’t often change.[/quote]Is there a Post about Posting there? I’m not sure when to capitalize words or how many commas to use per sentence. Should I be posting from a mobile phone?

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    62. 65 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]A sample here:

      From 2008-2010 the Red Sox spent $28,274,800

      The Rays in that same period spent $21,076,300

      I will try to look for more.[/quote]
      Per pick would matter too, since the Rays had so many

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    63. 66 GBTS says:

      Hank Williams ——-> Off ESPN for good, doesn’t understand the Constitution

      http://www.hankjr.com/home/203-hank-jr-reacts-to-being-pulled-from-espn-from-the-oct-3rd-monday-night-game-opener

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    64. 67 Berselius says:

      [quote name=GBTS]Hank Williams ——-> Off ESPN for good, doesn’t understand the Constitution

      http://www.hankjr.com/home/203-hank-jr-reacts-to-being-pulled-from-espn-from-the-oct-3rd-monday-night-game-opener/quote
      Eh, good riddance. I liked his MNF schtick before they belled and whistled it to death by changing it each week.

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    65. 68 Berselius says:

      I really hope they get Jenna Maroney to do a new intro, ala Tennis Night in America

      The video cannot be shown at the moment. Please try again later.

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    66. 69 8volumesthick says:

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      It’s interviews like these that make me want Theo strictly to talk to boobs on Chicago Radio.

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    67. 70 GBTS says:

      [quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]Is there a Post about Posting there? I’m not sure when to capitalize words or how many commas to use per sentence. Should I be posting from a mobile phone?[/quote]This question should have been a Fan Shot.

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    68. 71 dylanj says:

      the big 12 4 life

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    69. 72 Berselius says:

      [quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]Is there a Post about Posting there? I’m not sure when to capitalize words or how many commas to use per sentence. Should I be posting from a mobile phone?[/quote]
      As dumb as Yellon’s posts about posts are I find Lookout Landing much more annoying about it.

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    70. 73 Berselius says:

      Fun times on Denard Robinson’s twitter account right now

      http://twitter.com/#!/DenardX

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    71. 74 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Fun times on Denard Robinson’s twitter account right now

      http://twitter.com/#!/DenardX/quote
      Ah, it got bahleeted. An angry ex-girlfriend got a hold of his account.

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    72. 75 GBTS says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Ah, it got bahleeted. An angry ex-girlfriend got a hold of his account.[/quote]http://i.huffpost.com/gen/369615/DENARD-ROBINSON-TWITTER.jpg

      You WILL reap what you sew!

      (dying laughing)

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    73. 76 Mish says:

      I wish I had the corresponding quetsion to this physics problem:

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    74. 77 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Mish]I wish I had the corresponding quetsion to this physics problem:

      [/quote]If Batman swoops down in an attempt to knock down the Joker, but Joker moves out of the way, is this Aramis Ramirez’s fault?

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    75. 78 Mish says:

      (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
      Nice RC

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    76. 79 Rice Cube says:

      To be serious it’s probably asking about how far Batman or the Joker will bounce relative to the point of impact assuming Joker didn’t pack an inflatable suit or something to increase elasticity.

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    77. 80 Mish says:

      KG

      Junior Lake, SS, Cubs (Solar Sox): 3-for-4, 2B, HR (1), 2 R, RBI, SB. Still athletic as all get out; still can’t hit a breaking ball, still has plenty of scouts who would like to see him on the mound.

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    78. 81 Mish says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]To be serious it’s probably asking about how far Batman or the Joker will bounce relative to the point of impact assuming Joker didn’t pack an inflatable suit or something to increase elasticity.[/quote]
      I’m guessing an angular momentum/force in there as well.

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    79. 82 GBTS says:

      Anyone here ever been to the Potowatomi Casino in Milwaukee? I’m going there this weekend, wondering if it’s anything exceptional.

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    80. 83 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mish]I wish I had the corresponding quetsion to this physics problem:

      [/quote]
      I had a physics teacher in high school who did an entire problem set on this type of stuff based on Batman. The only one I remember was one where batman was jumping off a bridge onto a passing boat.

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    81. 84 GBTS says:

      There’s no way Batman in that suit weighs that little.

      MAYBE Michael Keaton.

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    82. 85 Rice Cube says:

      Marlins logo —> too legit to quit

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    83. 86 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=GBTS]There’s no way Batman in that suit weighs that little.

      MAYBE Michael Keaton.[/quote]That was obviously Nightwing posing as Batman in the “Prodigal” storyline.

      /jesuschristRCisanerd’d

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    84. 87 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Berselius]I had a physics teacher in high school who did an entire problem set on this type of stuff based on Batman. The only one I remember was one where batman was jumping off a bridge onto a passing boat.[/quote]There was one I recall where they talked about Superman’s X-ray vision and how far away from Earth he could be before he would lose resolution while using that ability.

      The classic has always been the monkey attempting to avoid the hunter’s bullet by jumping out of the tree at the exact moment of firing. That monkey never had a chance.

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    85. 88 GBTS says:

      I remember in high school our physics teacher had us watch the opening scene from Two Towers where Gandalf is falling fighting the dragon and estimate the force of impact when they hit the water.

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    86. 89 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]I agree that Theo would be the better choice for the Cubs. But in terms of how he drafted v. Friedman, did you guys look at the amount spent on the draft?

      I’m assuming Theo went overslot much more and the Rays drafted within their means- and almost always identifying the right players.[/quote]I think the Rays have been among the biggest spenders in the draft for several years now.

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    87. 90 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Aisle424]I’m not sure we can say that the Red Sox almost certainly spent more money on the draft than the Rays simply because they have more money.

      Without looking it up (because Aramis Ramirez has been a bad influence on me), it is entirely possible (and maybe even probable) that theRays spent more on the draft.

      What is $2.5 million going to get you on the FA market? Aaron Miles if you’re Jim Hendry. $2.5 million gets you Dillon Maples in the draft. A small market team would be foolish not to allocate more of its less plentiful dollars in an area that could net them a higher ceiling of talent than the quick-fix route of paying for what a FA has done for another team.

      Like I said, I don’t know this to be true, but it is very likely in my opinion.[/quote]Agreed. I do know the Royals and Pirates have been the biggest spenders in the draft and on amateur talent overall than any other team over the last 2 to 4 years. I think the Rays are right behind them, but Ramirez has also been a bad influence on me.

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    88. 91 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]A sample here:

      From 2008-2010 the Red Sox spent $28,274,800

      The Rays in that same period spent $21,076,300

      I will try to look for more.[/quote]What’s that on? The Cubs spent over $20 million this year and were only in the top 10.

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    89. 92 mb21 says:

      Here are the teams who gave the top 15 bonuses (to one player) this year: PIT, KC, SEA, WAS, ARI, PIT, BAL, ARI, WAS, SD, CLE, SD, WAS, CHC, HOU.

      I think if we look at this closely and include international free agents we’re going to find that small market teams outspend large market teams. This makes sense. Large market teams are the most active on the free agent market while small market teams are not very active. Large market teams wait for good players from small markets to become free agents.

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    90. 93 Aisle424 says:

      [quote name=GBTS]Anyone here ever been to the Potowatomi Casino in Milwaukee? I’m going there this weekend, wondering if it’s anything exceptional.[/quote]It’s OK. It’s like a Harrah’s feel with the size of the older Vegas Casinos like Golden Nugget or FitzPatrick’s or Imperial Palace.

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    91. 94 Aisle424 says:

      I liked it a lot better for my first few hands of Blackjack and then not at all after about the 10th hand.

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    92. 96 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      [quote name=mb21]What’s that on? The Cubs spent over $20 million this year and were only in the top 10.[/quote]
      It’s from Baseball Reference.

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    93. 98 GBTS says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]Duuuuude..

      http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Ohio-player-pricks-foes-in-handshake-line-force?urn=highschool-wp6797

      That’s not cool.[/quote]Don’t you like anything?

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    94. 99 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=GBTS]Don’t you like anything?[/quote]Cats.

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    95. 100 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]It’s from Baseball Reference.[/quote]I know I read an article on Baseball America after the international free agent signing period that had the Cubs over $20 million and I think they were 6th or 7th. The Royals and Pirates were at the top. I’ll look into it some more, but I don’t think the spending has been that much different. Spending on amateur talent is how the Rays have been successful. That, and developing it, which is part luck.

      Even if we give Friedman a slight advantage in developing talent, I still think the other differences overwhelmingly favor Theo. Not enough that you’d give up someone like Castro, but maybe enough that you’d give up Brett Jackson or Trey McNutt. One thing you’re buying with Theo is certainty. He’s been there, done that. Friedman hasn’t.

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    96. 101 Rice Cube says:

      B-Ref blogs about the Pujols-Utley play yesterday:

      http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/15675

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    97. 102 Berselius says:

      [quote name=GBTS]Don’t you like anything?[/quote]
      alien porn

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    98. 103 WenningtonsGorillaCock says:

      at about the 2:30 mark, on the bottom scroll: “Cubs ask for OK to rub Theo Epstein’s cock through his pants.” (dying laughing)

      http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/articles/sidney-crosby-tells-telephone-pole-he-has-recovere,26269/

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    99. 104 mb21 says:

      My guess at this point is that the Red Sox are trying to extend Theo’s contract and perhaps add another title to his job. There’s just no reason for this to take as long as it has. It’s been 3 days.

      I’d say that makes it less likely he’s going to the Cubs.

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    100. 105 binky says:

      So, the blog is now composing its own posts? It has become self-aware?

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    101. 106 Mish says:

      Hey b:

      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)

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    102. 107 Mish says:

      I don’t keep up with you Breaking Bad people so sorry if this was already posted: http://www.avclub.com/articles/the-very-first-scene-of-the-breaking-bad-finale-is,62961/

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    103. 108 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=mb21]My guess at this point is that the Red Sox are trying to extend Theo’s contract and perhaps add another title to his job. There’s just no reason for this to take as long as it has. It’s been 3 days.

      I’d say that makes it less likely he’s going to the Cubs.[/quote]Well that’s a total funsucker.

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    104. 109 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]Well that’s a total funsucker.[/quote]
      Seriously, how the fuck has this taken 3 days. Seems fairly simple- yes you can speak to him; no you cannot speak to him.

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    105. 110 Berselius says:

      There needed to be a couch shaped like his mustache in the background of that photo.

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    106. 111 Smokestack Lightning says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Seriously, how the fuck has this taken 3 days. Seems fairly simple- yes you can speak to him; no you cannot speak to him.[/quote]
      It would seem so, which leads me to conclude that if they do grant an interview, Epstein is all but assured of becoming the next GM. The Red Sox won’t even let him talk to the Cubs unless they’ve pretty much agreed to part ways. At that point, unless Ricketts shows up to the interview in Harry Caray glasses the entire process becomes a formality imo.

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    107. 112 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Smokestack Lightning]It would seem so, which leads me to conclude that if they do grant an interview, Epstein is all but assured of becoming the next GM. The Red Sox won’t even let him talk to the Cubs unless they’ve pretty much agreed to part ways. At that point, unless Ricketts shows up to the interview in Harry Caray glasses the entire process becomes a formality imo.[/quote]This would be the exact opposite of funsucking depending on what the compensation package is, or maybe the Red Sox just say “whatever” out of respect and thanks to Theo and the Cubs just pay the man and give up nothing. Double anti-funsucking!

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    108. 113 Smokestack Lightning says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]This would be the exact opposite of funsucking depending on what the compensation package is, or maybe the Red Sox just say “whatever” out of respect and thanks to Theo and the Cubs just pay the man and give up nothing. Double anti-funsucking![/quote]
      I dunno. The longer this drags out the smaller the Cubs chances imo.

      The situation has gotten very odd. It’s like Henry and Lucchino are hiding in the treehouse, hoping that if they just stay quiet, the nerdy kids from next door will go away.

      I mean c’mon the fucking Vatican picks a pope quicker than this.

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    109. 114 Berselius says:

      What’s the urgency here? The teams might be waiting until after the playoffs when Cashman comes into play.

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    110. 115 Berselius says:

      Robin Ventura ———-> CHW manager

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    111. 116 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Robin Ventura ———-> CHW manager[/quote]When they play the Rangers, will Nolan Ryan beat the shit out of him just for old times’ sake?

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    112. 117 mb21 says:

      There’s no urgency, but it’s strange it takes 3 days for the Sox to decide yes or no.

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    113. 118 binky says:

      [quote name=mb21]There’s no urgency, but it’s strange it takes 3 days for the Sox to decide yes or no.[/quote]They gave permission 4 weeks ago, but the media just hasn’t been told yet. The interview actually happend two days ago.

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    114. 119 GBTS says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Robin Ventura ———-> CHW manager[/quote]Good news for Craig Grebeck, he’s apparently the next in line.

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    115. 120 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=josh]They gave permission 4 weeks ago, but the media just hasn’t been told yet. The interview actually happend two days ago.[/quote]There is a non-zero chance that this is true (dying laughing)

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    116. 121 GW says:

      My guess is that UT caved on recruiting highlights and TCU in exchange for more games on LHN.

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    117. 122 GBTS says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]There is a non-zero chance that this is true (dying laughing)[/quote]Theo has been the Cubs GM since 2009.

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    118. 123 binky says:

      [quote name=GBTS]Theo has been the Cubs GM since 2009.[/quote]He would have done better if not for Aramis Ramirez’s influence.

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    119. 125 ACT says:

      Wow, Verlander is reportedly throwing his side session now.

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    120. 126 binky says:

      [quote name=cdw]Simpsons over after season 24…

      http://screenrant.com/the-simpsons-final-season-24-aco-135041/

      [/quote]I think it was time, if not past time, for it to go.

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    121. 127 Berselius says:

      [quote name=josh]I think it was time, if not past time, for it to go.[/quote]I dunno, I think they still have a fee hundred stories left where Homer gets a job with a celebrity guest star

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    122. 128 binky says:

      [quote name=Berselius]I dunno, I think they still have a fee hundred stories left where Homer gets a job with a celebrity guest star[/quote]Oh they had them, all right. They just turn their random plot assembler on and it spits out 4 story points from previous episodes. Easy.

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    123. 129 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=cdw]Simpsons over after season 24…

      http://screenrant.com/the-simpsons-final-season-24-aco-135041/

      [/quote]D’oh!

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    124. 130 Mish says:

      [quote name=josh]I think it was time, if not past time, for it to go in 1999.[/quote]
      .

      (fully aware that there were some cromulent episodes after that but that’s a fine cutoff for me)

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    125. 131 GW says:

      [quote name=Tim Wilken]You can’t force picks. Don’t take a fifth-round pitcher in the second round just because you need pitching. I’ve never believed in doing that.[/quote]
      (dying laughing)…

      I guess a 5th round pitcher in the 1st round is a completely different story.

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    126. 132 mb21 says:

      [quote name=GW](dying laughing)…

      I guess a 5th round pitcher in the 1st round is a completely different story.[/quote](dying laughing)

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    127. 133 ACT says:

      http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15257#commentMessage

      One thing I find interesting about the pinch-hitter vs. pitcher chart is that pinch-hitters actually fare slightly worse than pitchers with runners on first and second and no out. Pitchers almost always bunt in this situation. Is it possible that pinch hitters aren’t bunting enough here (especially since managers are reluctant to bring in a PH and ask him to lay down a bunt)?

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    128. 134 WaLi says:

      Nice start for Tigers

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    129. 135 Recalcitrant Blogger Nate says:

      are the Yankees doing a damn bullpen game? there is no way they are going to win in the playoffs with 1 starting pitcher

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    130. 136 Recalcitrant Blogger Nate says:

      http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/ivan-nova-should-get-the-joe-saunders-treatment/

      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)
      I guess that answers my question

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    131. 137 Aisle424 says:

      What in the fucking fuck is Joe Girardi doing? He knows this isn’t a Grapefruit League game, right?

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    132. 138 Rice Cube says:

      This umpire’s strike zone judgment sucks. Either that or my lying eyes and Gameday are way off.

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    133. 139 Berselius says:

      What the fuck happened with the Yankees pitching in this game?

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    134. 140 Berselius says:

      Ah, Nova’s injured

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    135. 141 Rice Cube says:

      I’m not an expert, but it seems that walking Miguel Cabrera to get to Victor Martinez wasn’t all that good of a strategy.

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    136. 142 ACT says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]I’m not an expert, but it seems that walking Miguel Cabrera to get to Victor Martinez wasn’t all that good of a strategy.[/quote]I’m not crazy about it. I don’t like most IBB’s, really. But at least there were 2 outs and Miguel is one of the best hitters in the universe.

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    137. 143 Rice Cube says:

      So…this apparently happened…

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    138. 144 ACT says:

      Wow.

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    139. 145 Rice Cube says:

      In my attempt to turn every thread into a Star Wars thread:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=38k-qfy5Jk4

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    140. 146 Rice Cube says:

      A-Rod is so not clutch.

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    141. 147 Rice Cube says:

      Mariano Rivera might get a win…

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    142. 148 Berselius says:

      Well, getting to win by beating Valverde was what some Yankees fans wanted. Here’s their chance.

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    143. 149 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]Mariano Rivera might get a win…[/quote]False.

      A-Rod so not clutch.

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    144. 150 ACT says:

      I can’t believe A-Rod gets paid a billion dollars to strike out in key situations. Literally. His contract actually has a clause that says he gets a billion dollars whenever he K’s in a clutch at-bat.

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    145. 151 Berselius says:

      Valverde’s money ———–> where his mouth is

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    146. 152 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=ACT]I can’t believe A-Rod gets paid a billion dollars to strike out in key situations. Literally. His contract actually has a clause that says he gets a billion dollars whenever he K’s in a clutch at-bat.[/quote](dying laughing) It’s amazing how many people are bashing A-Rod now because he sucked in this series.

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    147. 153 mb21 says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Valverde’s money ———–> where his mouth is[/quote]Kind of. Valverde did say the series wouldn’t get back to New York.

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    148. 154 GW says:

      with apologies to mb, glad to see the yanks lose. wouldn’t be upset at all if the cubs end up with cashman.

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    149. 155 shawndgoldman says:

      Let the Brian Cashman —–> Cubs rumors begin.

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    150. 157 mb21 says:

      [quote name=GW]with apologies to mb, glad to see the yanks lose. wouldn’t be upset at all if the cubs end up with cashman.[/quote]I’d be very happy to end up with Cashman though I think he’s the least likely of the candidates. The Cubs job is a pretty good one right now, but Cashman’s is too.

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    151. 158 GW says:

      part of me hopes that Epstein suddenly converts to libertarianism and is selected by Bob Barr as his vice presidential candidate for 2012.

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    152. 159 Berselius says:

      [quote name=mb21]http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view/2011_1007epstein_resolution_draws_near/srvc=home&position=recent[/quote]
      Henry and Lucchino are supposed to be in-studio on NESN this morning, but the buzz I got from the radio is that they didn’t signal that there was going to be any big news.

      One WEEI caller suggested that if the Red Sox keep taking their time on this, the Cubs should sent Epstein a gorilla suit so he can sneak out for an interview (dying laughing)

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    153. 160 Berselius says:

      [quote name=GW]part of me hopes that Epstein suddenly converts to libertarianism and is selected by Bob Barr as his vice presidential candidate for 2012.[/quote]
      That way, if he becomes the Cubs GM it would mean untold billions in revenues for the city.

      /Chuck

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    154. 161 WaLi says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Henry and Lucchino are supposed to be in-studio on NESN this morning, but the buzz I got from the radio is that they didn’t signal that there was going to be any big news.

      One WEEI caller suggested that if the Red Sox keep taking their time on this, the Cubs should sent Epstein a gorilla suit so he can sneak out for an interview (dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing) a Gorilla suit? It’s a trap! Those crazy motherfuckers can pick Theo out in a gorilla suit.

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    155. 162 Berselius says:

      Tango had a great title for this – “In which one smart guy is outsmarted by an even smarter guy”

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    156. 163 Berselius says:

      [quote name=WaLi](dying laughing) a Gorilla suit? It’s a trap! Those crazy motherfuckers can pick Theo out in a gorilla suit.[/quote]

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    157. 164 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Robothal]Following @bradfo tweets on Henry, Lucchino appearance on @WEEI. Sounds like Henry is cushioning #RedSox fans for departure of Theo. #MLB[/quote]
      .

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    158. 165 mb21 says:

      WEEI: Henry: Is a certain protocol in this game if somebody asks for permission to talk about a job that is not lateral, you grant permission

      That’s about all he said about it.

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    159. 166 mb21 says:

      I’ve accepted that I’ll be looking for Theo news when I get back to town next week. This will never end.

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    160. 167 Berselius says:

      also

      Lucchino: Three years ago we had a request to talk to Theo Epstein. Don’t talk about it publicly.

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    161. 168 mb21 says:

      Lucchino: Three years ago we had a request to talk to Theo Epstein. Don’t respond and hope it goes away.

      .

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    162. 169 Mish says:

      For those that watched Parks and Rec last night, I didn’t realize that Dan Castellaneta played the radio host at the beginning, most likely because I had no idea what Dan Castellaneta looked like. (dying laughing)

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    163. 170 mb21 says:

      Unless some Red Sox reporter breaks a story about Theo interviewing with the Cubs, we’ll never know what the Sox did. We know for god damn sure the Cubs reporters don’t have a fucking clue.

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    164. 171 Berselius says:

      [quote name=mb21]Unless some Red Sox reporter breaks a story about Theo interviewing with the Cubs, we’ll never know what the Sox did. We know for god damn sure the Cubs reporters don’t have a fucking clue.[/quote]
      I don’t know what’s more sad for the newspaper business – that Bruce Miles can’t travel anywhere or that Phil Rogers has been sent by the Trib to as many playoff games as possible without any Chicago teams in the mix.

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    165. 172 binky says:

      [quote name=Mish]For those that watched Parks and Rec last night, I didn’t realize that Dan Castellaneta played the radio host at the beginning, most likely because I had no idea what Dan Castellaneta looked like. (dying laughing)[/quote]Not a true Simpsons fan.

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    166. 173 Mucker says:

      If Theo gets the job, does that change the Cubs tactical plan this offseason? Does it mean the Cubs will be interested in Sabathia, C.J., Fielder, etc.? Maybe some trade acquisitions? Or do the Cubs still continue to try and rebuild the farm system and give Theo a chance to really build a perennial contender?

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    167. 174 binky says:

      [quote name=Mucker]If Theo gets the job, does that change the Cubs tactical plan this offseason? Does it mean the Cubs will be interested in Sabathia, C.J., Fielder, etc.? Maybe some trade acquisitions? Or do the Cubs still continue to try and rebuild the farm system and give Theo a chance to really build a perennial contender?[/quote]I’m hoping for perennial contender at some point. Saddling the team with a bunch of long term contracts that may be really cumbersome in a few years is pretty much what we have now. I’d personally like to see a philosophical shift.

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    168. 176 WaLi says:

      [quote name=Berselius]http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/10/7/2474722/miami-marlins-ballpark-home-run-structure-what-is-that-gaaaaaaaaah

      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)[/quote]


      Behold. This is what will happen when the Marlins hit a home run. It’s what Bernie Brewer thinks he’s sliding down after a couple buttons of peyote. Don’t avert your eyes. Look at it. Study it. This is what we’ve become.

      If Carnival and Las Vegas had a baby, this would be the placenta. If Charlton Heston ever lands on Planet of the Fish, this will be their version of the “It’s a Small World” ride. This is what would happen if Vikings attacked a Gloria Estefan concert by catapulting flamingos and marlins into the pyrotechnics display.

      (dying laughing) Wow. I want some of what they are smoking when they thought that was a good idea.

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    169. 177 binky says:

      I’m telling you, they’re trying to target the Latino population to expand their fanbase.

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    170. 178 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Berselius]http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/10/7/2474722/miami-marlins-ballpark-home-run-structure-what-is-that-gaaaaaaaaah

      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)[/quote]Sweet Jesus that thing is ugly (dying laughing)

      Non sequitur for more lulz:

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/nightmaresfearfactory/with/6170645862/

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    171. 179 Rice Cube says:

      If Carnival and Las Vegas had a baby, this would be the placenta.

      This part was the best.

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    172. 180 Mucker says:

      Why not just have a tank with Snowflake in it?

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    173. 181 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Mucker]Why not just have a tank with Snowflake in it?[/quote]LACES…OUT!

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    174. 182 work sucks says:

      Matt (Bloomington, IN) Hey Bruce, which scenario do you think is more likely for the Cubs heading into next season: Ryno as Manager, or Theo as GM?

      Bruce Levine (2:13 PM) I’d say Theo as GM is much more likely and something we should know in the next 2-3 days. The Jewish high holiday starting tomorrow night convilutes things a bit. It would not be kosher to announce your new Jewish GM on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar. Expect something either today or up to sundown Friday. After that it would be Sunday.

      that was yesterday

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    175. 183 work sucks says:

      I assume the Red Sox granted the request immediately, or as soon as they knew that Theo was interviewing for the role of Team President and GM, which is a promotion. I’d say the interview and job offer has already happened, and Theo is in the process of deciding whether to leave and/or shopping his offer back to Boston to get a promotion/extension.

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    176. 184 work sucks says:

      work sucks————->Recalcitrant Blogger nate

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    177. 185 Rice Cube says:

      A-Rod being un-clutch in pictures:

      http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/Eight-photos-of-A-Rod-striking-out-to-end-the-AL?urn=mlb-wp22982

      I’d feel bad for the guy but he makes more than I ever will. As said, he wasn’t the only one who sucked.

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    178. 186 ACT says:

      Don’t worry. Yankees fans are an understanding lot. http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/10/7/2474641/alex-rodriguez-new-york-yankees-game-5

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    179. 187 Rice Cube says:

      MLBTR summary of today’s Red Sox happenings:

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/10/henry-lucchino-on-epsteins-future.html

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    180. 188 Rice Cube says:

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    181. 189 Suburban kid 22 says:

      Smokestack Lightning is also one of the Wolf’s best tunes:

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    182. 190 Ryno says:

      So hot……..

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    183. 191 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      Remember when I said the Cubs were gonna have to hire someone fluent in local politics to make this public funding thing go? On Sept. 12, they hired Julian Green as VP od Communications. His creds?

      The man has been press secretary to then-U.S. Senator Barack Obama. He was director of communications and marketing for the Chicago Park District. He was assistant press secretary to then-Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley. He is an interim board member of the Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority.

      Smart. Fucking. Move. IMO, this moves them closer to that public money that Theo ever will.

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    184. 192 WenningtonsGorillaCock says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]On Sept. 12[/quote]The local media is improving. It hasn’t even been a month yet, and they’ve already reported on something. We might actually find out who the new GM is before spring training.

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    185. 193 ACT says:

      [quote name=Suburban kid 22]Smokestack Lightning is also one of the Wolf’s best tunes:

      [/quote]Agreed, but to do youtube tags, I think you just do the letters, not the address:

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    186. 194 ACT says:

      Yeah, that worked.

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    187. 195 binky says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Remember when I said the Cubs were gonna have to hire someone fluent in local politics to make this public funding thing go? On Sept. 12, they hired Julian Green as VP od Communications. His creds?

      Smart. Fucking. Move. IMO, this moves them closer to that public money that Theo ever will.[/quote]Next, they should burn down Wrigley for the insurance money.

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    188. 196 The Wreckard says:

      I would take Crawford even with his salary.
      Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It’s simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory­, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant…. It’s not complicate­d. – George Costanza
      by troutfishin on Oct 7, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions

      I’m sure Cubs fans would welcome a struggling, highly-paid African-American ballplayer
      What could possibly go wrong?

      by Wreckard on Oct 7, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions

      Go play the race card somewhere else
      Guys, hitting is not about muscle. It’s simple physics. Calculate the velocity, v, in relation to the trajectory­, t, in which g, gravity, of course remains a constant…. It’s not complicate­d. – George Costanza
      by troutfishin on Oct 7, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions

      I’m not genuinely not sure why I keep posting over there.

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    189. 197 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      The temerity of Cubs fans to suggest the mere allegation of prejudice on their part is race-baiting is fucking appalling.

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    190. 198 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]I’m not genuinely not sure why I keep posting over there.[/quote]Did this comment string continue? You should have responded with “Prove me wrong.”

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    191. 199 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=josh]Next, they should burn down Wrigley for the insurance money.[/quote]Let’s See What Happens

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    192. 200 Dr. Aneus Taint says:

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    193. 201 Dr. Aneus Taint says:

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    194. 202 The Wreckard says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]Did this comment string continue? You should have responded with “Prove me wrong.”[/quote]No, but I did give Al a “prove me wrong” in another thread: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/5/2471669/bob-brenly-once-again-speaks-the-truth#79455944:

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    195. 203 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]No, but I did give Al a “prove me wrong” in another thread: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/5/2471669/bob-brenly-once-again-speaks-the-truth#79455944:[/quote]Why can no-one see that Brenly is just using a bully pulpit to campaign for the Cubs job?

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    196. 204 The Wreckard says:

      Because they love seeing highly paid players get cut down, even when they’re good.

      The amount of vitriol that Cubs fans have for anyone making more than the league minimum is really gross.

      Except Ryan Dempster for some reason. He had an actually disappointing year – but you don’t see anyone openly wishing he’ll opt out and leave.

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    197. 205 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]No, but I did give Al a “prove me wrong” in another thread: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/5/2471669/bob-brenly-once-again-speaks-the-truth#79455944:[/quote]
      Reading that thread makes me head hurt.

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    198. 206 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]No, but I did give Al a “prove me wrong” in another thread: http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/5/2471669/bob-brenly-once-again-speaks-the-truth#79455944:[/quote]I’ll have to take your word for it as I usually avoid that place like the plague. Otherwise I might have two broken hands and multiple broken monitors.

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    199. 207 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]Because they love seeing highly paid players get cut down, even when they’re good.

      The amount of vitriol that Cubs fans have for anyone making more than the league minimum is really gross.

      Except Ryan Dempster for some reason. He had an actually disappointing year – but you don’t see anyone openly wishing he’ll opt out and leave.[/quote]
      Agreed. It’s very odd. Dempster plays to the camera and does all the fan-friendly BS (including being the first one to out clubhouse “bad guys”) that makes him well-liked. OTOH, Ramirez is quiet, seemingly aloof, and is often on the “wrong” side of clubhouse problems. Maybe that’s why Dempster gets a pass. But I wholeheartedly agree that the hate for any Cubs player getting paid is infuriating. This is made all the more maddening when you consider this is the same band of fucktards that castigated TribCo for YEARS for not spending money.

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    200. 208 The Wreckard says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]I’ll have to take your word for it as I usually avoid that place like the plague. Otherwise I might have two broken hands and multiple broken monitors.[/quote]It’s gotten so, so much worse lately. Most of the reasonable posters have been driven out by the stupid or banned outright, the level of discourse over there is the lowest it’s ever been.

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    201. 209 binky says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Agreed. It’s very odd. Dempster plays to the camera and does all the fan-friendly BS (including being the first one to out clubhouse “bad guys”) that makes him well-liked. OTOH, Ramirez is quiet, seemingly aloof, and is often on the “wrong” side of clubhouse problems. Maybe that’s why Dempster gets a pass. But I wholeheartedly agree that the hate for any Cubs player getting paid is infuriating. This is made all the more maddening when you consider this is the same band of fucktards that castigated TribCo for YEARS for not spending money.[/quote]They didn’t know good players would want so much money. I guess they just thought if TribCo asked people real nice, maybe they’d want to be Cubs. It doesn’t help that Andre Dawson’s blank contract became instant Stuff of Legend. I heard Dawson say he was actually angry because he didn’t think they would screw him over like that, but that he had already promised, so he followed through.

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    202. 210 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=josh]They didn’t know good players would want so much money. I guess they just thought if TribCo asked people real nice, maybe they’d want to be Cubs. It doesn’t help that Andre Dawson’s blank contract became instant Stuff of Legend. I heard Dawson say he was actually angry because he didn’t think they would screw him over like that, but that he had already promised, so he followed through.[/quote]Dawson’s blank check stunt was also necessitated by owner collusion, a fact which fans conveniently forget.

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    203. 211 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]The temerity of Cubs fans to suggest the mere allegation of prejudice on their part is race-baiting is fucking appalling.[/quote]
      racist

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    204. 212 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=Berselius]racist[/quote]I can’t argue with you today.

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    205. 213 binky says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Dawson’s blank check stunt was also necessitated by owner collusion, a fact which fans conveniently forget.[/quote]That’s why players have to go for the most money they can when they can. If given the chance, there are plenty of owners have no problem playing dirty tricks like that.

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    206. 214 The Wreckard says:

      Oh I forgot to mention the reason I was “playing the race card” at that dude was because of his hilarious reaction to this thread:
      http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/1/2462988/baseball-explains-modern-racism

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    207. 215 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=josh]That’s why players have to go for the most money they can when they can. If given the chance, there are plenty of owners have no problem playing dirty tricks like that.[/quote]Right. And we have a commissioner who is way too owner-friendly. Selig’s been in charge of labor operations for MLB since the 70′s. He’s overseen 3 instances of collusion and 5 labor stoppages. For some reason, no one talks about this.

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    208. 216 binky says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]Oh I forgot to mention the reason I was “playing the race card” at that dude was because of his hilarious reaction to this thread:
      http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2011/10/1/2462988/baseball-explains-modern-racism[/quote]There’s a hilarious level of backtracking whenever anyone swears in the comments on that site. Does Al not approve of naughty words?

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    209. 217 binky says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Right. And we have a commissioner who is way too owner-friendly. Selig’s been in charge of labor operations for MLB since the 70′s. He’s overseen 3 instances of collusion and 5 labor stoppages. For some reason, no one talks about this.[/quote]But he added the wildcard, so all is forgiven. Isn’t the commissioner appointed by the owners? Or do players get some say?

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    210. 218 The Wreckard says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Right. And we have a commissioner who is way too owner-friendly. Selig’s been in charge of labor operations for MLB since the 70′s. He’s overseen 3 instances of collusion and 5 labor stoppages. For some reason, no one talks about this.[/quote]Because fans never side with the players for some bizarre reason. They see teams as institutions to be honored, rather than corporate entities owned by super-rich old dudes.

      Just look at the reaction fans had to Ramirez invoking his no-trade rights, rather than accepting a trade to another team at the deadline. Or fans’ reactions to basically any labor stoppage ever (except the NFL one, but that’s because the NFL owners bungled the PR on that so badly).

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    211. 219 Berselius says:

      [quote name=josh]But he added the wildcard, so all is forgiven. Isn’t the commissioner appointed by the owners? Or do players get some say?[/quote]
      The commissioner has always been the mouthpiece of the owners.

      What’s unique about Selig is that he’s much more the CEO than past commisioners (Ueberroth excepted). For the most part the commish dealt with day to day shit the owners didn’t want to deal with. Power is much more centralized with Selig.

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    212. 220 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=josh]But he added the wildcard, so all is forgiven. Isn’t the commissioner appointed by the owners? Or do players get some say?[/quote]The owners elect them. Selig got in by actively undermining Fay Vincent (who was perceived by the owners as being too impartial on labor issues, and who was also a colossal asshole), leading the owners to vote no confidence on Vicnent, forcing him out. Selig, due in large part to his role in labor issues over the years, was installed as interim commish in 1992. In 1994, there was a labor stoppage and the WS was canceled. There are many who see these two events as no mere coincidences, including Vincent himself.

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    213. 221 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]Because fans never side with the players for some bizarre reason. They see teams as institutions to be honored, rather than corporate entities owned by super-rich old dudes.

      Just look at the reaction fans had to Ramirez invoking his no-trade rights, rather than accepting a trade to another team at the deadline. Or fans’ reactions to basically any labor stoppage ever (except the NFL one, but that’s because the NFL owners bungled the PR on that so badly).[/quote]
      I’ve never been able to understand that. It’s truly bizarre.

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    214. 222 binky says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]Because fans never side with the players for some bizarre reason. They see teams as institutions to be honored, rather than corporate entities owned by super-rich old dudes.

      Just look at the reaction fans had to Ramirez invoking his no-trade rights, rather than accepting a trade to another team at the deadline. Or fans’ reactions to basically any labor stoppage ever (except the NFL one, but that’s because the NFL owners bungled the PR on that so badly).[/quote]Yeah, fans should have been up in arms about TribCo screwing Dawson, but instead they feel like they won the lottery. I don’t know if the average fan realizes that if owners didn’t have to pay the Sorianos of baseball $20Mill a year, they’d still charge the same ticket prices, they’d just pocket the rest. I’d rather give my money to the players than to the owners. Somehow this all got turned around. I guess it’s PR. The team gets to market itself as institution, like you said. They control the public image. The players get no say in that, they are employees. The average Joe gets duped again.

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    215. 223 Berselius says:

      [quote name=josh]Yeah, fans should have been up in arms about TribCo screwing Dawson, but instead they feel like they won the lottery. I don’t know if the average fan realizes that if owners didn’t have to pay the Sorianos of baseball $20Mill a year, they’d still charge the same ticket prices, they’d just pocket the rest. I’d rather give my money to the players than to the owners. Somehow this all got turned around. I guess it’s PR. The team gets to market itself as institution, like you said. They control the public image. The players get no say in that, they are employees. The average Joe gets duped again.[/quote]
      I don’t know about that. If the Cubs signed Albert Pujols to a 5/25 deal this offseason I think a lot of fans would be more elated than anything else.

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    216. 224 Berselius says:

      It’s easy to blame the players because salaries did drive costs of going to ballgames up to closer to what the market could bear. People were getting baseball for far less than what it was valued at. Player salaries are just more transparent than corporate profit (and also more fixed).

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    217. 225 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      There’s a great interview with Vincent by Maury at BoB here: http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1173&Itemid=81

      Choice bits:

      The owners control the Player Relations Committee. It’s not under the supervision or authority of the Commissioner – never has been. Selig and his committee felt that they had lost confidence in Rona and they wanted to go in a different direction with the outside law firm Chuck O’Connor. Selig made that decision, and I carried it out.

      By the way, you’re very good to ask that question, because that is something that is almost never appreciated in baseball. That is, Selig, for the last 30 years, has been in charge of labor relations in baseball. It never reported to the Commissioner. I thought it should’ve. They brought in, when I was Commissioner, a fellow from New York City, whose name I forget, to be a negotiator and that was really one of the turning points in my involvement in baseball.

      The Union’s been very difficult. I think building a relationship with the Union, #4, would have been a huge priority. The Union basically doesn’t trust the Ownership because collusion was a $280 million theft by Selig and Reinsdorf of that money from the players. I mean, they rigged the signing of free agents. They got caught. They paid $280 million to the players. And I think that’s polluted labor relations in baseball ever since it happened. I think it’s the reason Fehr has no trust in Selig. And I think it’s one of the huge reasons I brought Steve Greenberg to baseball as the deputy. He’s now an investment banker. Everybody in baseball uses him, everybody loves him. But people forget that I brought him to baseball to help deal with Union because he was a former agent, he was well-liked by Fehr, and I think I was absolutely right.

      Indeed, I think that the firing of Steve by Major League Baseball was one of their huge mistakes. They should have kept him on. I think he should be Commissioner. I think he’s by far the most talented businessman in baseball.

      BizBall: Commissioner Selig has said that after his term expires in 2006 that this will be his final term. If that is truly the case, do you expect to see a continuation of a commissioner being promoted from within the ownership ranks, as opposed to an individual that has no vested financial interest in the game?

      Vincent: Well, it’s a tough question. I don’t know how to predict that. Because I think the answer is that it should be an independent. But I think the owners are very happy with Bud. On the other hand, I don’t there’s anybody in baseball… You know Steve Greenberg is the best choice I mean he ought to be the next commissioner. We’ll see what happens.

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    218. 226 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Berselius]I don’t know about that. If the Cubs signed Albert Pujols to a 5/25 deal this offseason I think a lot of fans would be more elated than anything else.[/quote]I would be ecstatic.

      I’d also wonder if this was the same Pujols that made a smart play to get Utley going to 3B. Because to accept that little money would reek of stupidity.

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    219. 227 binky says:

      I guess it also probably comes from free agency. Fans really like a player and he leaves for free agency, then that leaves a bad taste in people’s mouth. Eh whatever, there’s greed on both sides.

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    220. 228 binky says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]I would be ecstatic.

      I’d also wonder if this was the same Pujols that made a smart play to get Utley going to 3B. Because to accept that little money would reek of stupidity.[/quote]Happy if he agreed to it and it was fair, and he gave the Cubs a discount because he wanted to help build a winning team or something. What they did to Dawson wasn’t exactly fair or comparable to that kind of situation. He shouldn’t have trusted them, but they laughed their way to the bank on that.

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    221. 229 Mish says:

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    222. 230 Smokestack Lightning says:

      Heh.

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    223. 231 Aisle424 says:

      [quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]The local media is improving. It hasn’t even been a month yet, and they’ve already reported on something. We might actually find out who the new GM is before spring training.[/quote]There was a press release on the Cubs website about it. I think someone linked it here back then. No beat reporter commented on it, to my knowledge, other than regurgitating his resume, but it was out there.

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    224. 232 Mish says:

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    225. 233 Aisle424 says:

      [quote name=The Wreckard]It’s gotten so, so much worse lately. Most of the reasonable posters have been driven out by the stupid or banned outright, the level of discourse over there is the lowest it’s ever been.[/quote]That is truly scary considering where it started.

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    226. 234 Rice Cube says:

      Poor Venom…

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    227. 235 Mish says:

      [quote name=Aisle424]That is truly scary considering where it started.[/quote]
      Even if all the banned and exiled reasonable posters returned, you’d still never find a more wretched hive of scum and idiocy.

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    228. 236 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=Aisle424]There was a press release on the Cubs website about it. I think someone linked it here back then. No beat reporter commented on it, to my knowledge, other than regurgitating his resume, but it was out there.[/quote]It’s an important move, IMO. In terms of getting that money it is as big, if not a bigger move. An insider like Green is what this whole plea for public money has been missing. Kudos to Ricketts for finally figuring out how the wheels turn in Chicago.

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    229. 237 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Kudos to Ricketts [/quote]

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    230. 238 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      I have the right to be wrong. (dying laughing)

      (actual assertion by a student in my class)

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    231. 239 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I have the right to be wrong. (dying laughing)

      (actual assertion by a student in my class)[/quote]
      Truly, indeed, these are exponential times.

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    232. 240 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Truly, indeed, these are exponential times.[/quote]As, since the dawn of time, man has wondered.

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    233. 241 Aisle424 says:

      Heyman:

      People around the game getting idea that, unless something changes, theo will stay with #redsox

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    234. 242 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]As, since the dawn of time, man has wondered.[/quote]
      It is obvious to the most casual observer.

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    235. 243 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I have the right to be wrong. (dying laughing)

      (actual assertion by a student in my class)[/quote]
      Also, you have the right to fail him/her (dying laughing).

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    236. 244 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Aisle424]Heyman:[/quote]Heyman —> funsucker

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    237. 245 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]Heyman —> funsucker[/quote]
      Hymen ——-> fun-stopper

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    238. 246 Mercurial Outfielder says:

      [quote name=Aisle424]Heyman:[/quote]Some people who have tangentially related positions in the same industry have an unsubstantiated opinion about something.#typicalESPNbullshit

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    239. 247 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Hymen ——-> fun-stopper[/quote]Have we gone too far?

      (dying laughing) btw

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    240. 248 Mish says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Hymen ——-> fun-stopper[/quote](dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)

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    241. 249 Rodrigo Ramirez says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]Have we gone too far?

      (dying laughing) btw[/quote]
      Yes, I probably did go too far. But with all the talk of fagets, mexicans, and of course Dr. Taint, I just went with it.

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    242. 250 Dr. Aneus Taint says:

      Sounds like Louisville ———> Big 12-3+1 if Mizzou leaves.

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    243. 252 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Some people who have tangentially related positions in the same industry have an unsubstantiated opinion about something.#typicalSIbullshit[/quote]
      Fixed, in this case

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    244. 253 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Yes, I probably did go too far. But with all the talk of fagets, mexicans, and of course Dr. Taint, I just went with it.[/quote]I guess Venom’s vagina was the catalyst.

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    245. 254 Mish says:

      [quote name=Berselius]Fixed, in this case[/quote]I shudder to think of the quality of SI sans JoePoz.

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    246. 255 Rice Cube says:

      Why wouldn’t you believe Heyman? He has a source(s)!

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    247. 256 Berselius says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]Why wouldn’t you believe Heyman? He has a source(s)![/quote]
      That’s just a rumor

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    248. 257 Rice Cube says:

      [quote name=Berselius]That’s just a rumor[/quote]This may start a futile cycle of memes.

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    249. 259 Mish says:

      [quote name=Rice Cube]This may start a futile cycle of memes.[/quote]Correct.

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    250. 260 GW says:

      [quote name=GW]part of me hopes that Epstein suddenly converts to libertarianism and is selected by Bob Barr as his vice presidential candidate for 2012.[/quote]

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