David Kaplan is reporting that the Cubs and Tigers are “down the road” in trade discussions for Matt Garza. I have no idea what that means. I would expect them further down the road than they were in August. If the two teams are still talking I would expect them further down the road than they were three weeks ago. I’m not sure this tells us anything new, but here’s what Kaplan says.
Excellent baseball sources have confirmed for me tonight that the Cubs are down the road in discussions with the Detroit Tigers to send Matt Garza to the Motor City in exchange for a package of prospects. The Cubs are currently in the middle of a complete overhaul of their major league roster and several teams have expressed serious interest in Garza including the Tigers, the Yankees, the Red Sox, and the Blue Jays. He would be projected as the Tigers No. 2 starter behind Cy Young award winner Justin Verlander.
I don’t have the issue with Kaplan that many of you do. However, why does he call them excellent baseball sources? I would assume every non-Paul Sullivan journalist would only publish something if they believed it came from excellent sources.
So I’m not sure we know anymore about the Garza situation today than we did a week ago. We might know more about the Wood situation though I’m skeptical he’s actually talking with multiple teams. This seems more like an attempt by his agents to get the Cubs to increase their offer. Hopefully they call the bluff. If they lose him to another team, big deal. I don’t think the Cubs are going to miss his 24 Holds next year.
I don’t believe there is any new information available about the Cubs pursuit of Paul Maholm. I know Aisle424 already talked about it, but I thought I’d add my 2 cents on Kerry Wood.
A couple months ago it seemed like a foregone conclusion that the Cubs would be re-signing Kerry Wood. Here we are in the second week of January and he’s still unsigned. Wood claimed he didn’t want to pitch next year if it wasn’t for the Cubs, but all of a sudden he’s talking to multiple teams. He’s also looking for $4 million next year and perhaps even a multi-year deal. He’s probably worth only $2 million, but if the Cubs sign him for more than he’s worth I don’t think anyone is going to complain. He has said he will sign with some team by Friday.
My guess is the Cubs increase their offer to Wood, but won’t offer a multi-year deal. I don’t care if they re-sign him or not. The 20 strikeout Kerry Wood is a distant memory. The 2003 Kerry Wood is also a distant memory. Since 2005 he’s been worth 3.1 rWAR. 1.8 of that came in 2008 when he was the closer. He’s just not that good these days.
By the way, if the Cubs to re-sign Kerry Wood I’m anxiously awaiting the game in which Travis Wood throws 8 dominating innings and leaves for Kerry Wood. Cubs Bring The Wood!
UPDATE: On Bleacher Nation Brett was nice enough to publish something I’ve written about trade value. It was sparked by a discussion he and I had in the comments there and then some emails.
UPDATE 2: I wrote this in the comments last night about Maholm:
CAIRO projects 0.4 WAR over 175 innings while Oliver projets 1.9 over 178 innings. Bill James projects roughly 1.5 WAR over just under 150 innings. That’s an average of 1.3 WAR. Hopefully it’s only a one year contract as I see little to no reason to sign someone of that quality beyond that. Over 1 year that’s $6.5 million in value.
If it’s a two year deal and we use this method we’d just pay Maholm a million bucks less per year over two years or a total of $11 million. We’d get a projected value of .8 WAR in 2013. Doing it that way gives us a 2-year, $10.7 million contract. Considering the loss in velocity, I’d hope for something like 2 years and $9 million at most. I’d much prefer a 1-year deal for around $5 million.
Bruce Levine says the deal is a 1-year, $4.25 million contract with a club option for $6.25 million or a .5 million buyout.
I had hoped for a one-year deal at $5 million and Maholm has one year guaranteed for $4.75 million (includes buyout). The two year deal estimate we got was for $10.7 million and if this ends up being a two year deal it will be for $10.5 million. Not only that, it won’t be a two year deal unless Maholm is better than the .8 WAR estimate for 2013.
.
I was just getting ready to say that we need Rodrigo to come around and post his one character comment so I can then hit refresh. (dying laughing)
JMan mentioned in the last thread that Fernando Martinez was DFA’d. It’s too bad the Cubs have so many outfielders on their 40-man roster because I’d really like the Cubs to take a flyer on him.
[quote name=mb21]JMan mentioned in the last thread that Fernando Martinez was DFA’d. It’s too bad the Cubs have so many outfielders on their 40-man roster because I’d really like the Cubs to take a flyer on him.[/quote]I wonder if they still might depending on how they feel about Tony Campana.
Trading Byrd and soriano would help solve the 40man issues
They could also sign Martinez to a minor league deal.
(dying laughing)
Maybe it’s like being down the garden path.
[quote name=Rodrigo].[/quote]Now you’re just repeating yourself.
[quote name=thekapman]When I say “down the road” on trade talks with Tigers for Garza I mean that talks have progressed far beyond initial stages.[/quote].
[quote name=mb21]They could also sign Martinez to a minor league deal.[/quote]Well that’s just like your opinion man.
[quote name=fang2415](dying laughing)
Maybe it’s like being down the garden path.[/quote]
They updated the blurb a bit:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/cubs-tigers-talking-matt-garza.html
if i’m reading this right, Wood’s major league cumulative WPA since the end of 2003 is negative.
[quote name=mb21]I was just getting ready to say that we need Rodrigo to come around and post his one character comment so I can then hit refresh. (dying laughing)[/quote]
You were right on schedule (dying laughing)
Well done, MB:
http://www.bleachernation.com/2012/01/09/guest-post-trade-value-prospects-and-an-adequate-return-in-a-matt-garza/
[quote name=Rice Cube]Well done, MB:
http://www.bleachernation.com/2012/01/09/guest-post-trade-value-prospects-and-an-adequate-return-in-a-matt-garza//quoteThat might be anti-unrediscrediting.
somebody there needs to call MD a Faget and tell him to go watch a game sometime
[quote name=Mish]That might be anti-unrediscrediting.[/quote]That or I discredited Bleacher Nation.
Great post on BN, mb.
You’re way nicer to the commenters there, though (dying laughing)
[quote name=Rodrigo]Great post on BN, mb.
You’re way nicer to the commenters there, though (dying laughing)[/quote]Thanks. And thanks. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Rodrigo]Great post on BN, mb.
You’re way nicer to the commenters there, though (dying laughing)[/quote]Well that’s no fun…
[quote name=mb21]Thanks. And fuck you. (dying laughing)[/quote].
[quote name=Aisle424].[/quote]
That’s the response I was hoping for.
And can someone tell me why the fans love Brian Scalabrine??
[quote name=Rodrigo]That’s the response I was hoping for.
And can someone tell me why the fans love Brian Scalabrine??[/quote]He’s a good person.
[quote name=Rodrigo].[/quote]
:
I guess it doesn’t matter that I missed most of the national championship game. Unless you’re a fan of defense and field goals it seems to be a snoozer so far.
[quote name=Rice Cube]I guess it doesn’t matter that I missed most of the national championship game. Unless you’re a fan of defense and field goals it seems to be a snoozer so far.[/quote]
I’m beginning to doubt any touchdowns will be scored, yet again.
[quote name=Rice Cube]I guess it doesn’t matter that I missed most of the national championship game. Unless you’re a fan of defense and field goals it seems to be a snoozer so far.[/quote]
I’ve been watching, and its probly one of the most dominant defensive performances by Alabama thats happened in college FB in 25 years. LSU averages 40 points per game, and they played the hardest schedule in the nation by a long shot.
Likely 25 NFL players on defense alone in this game
8.8 PPG allowed, and 9 TD allowed ALL SEASON. In 13 games.
Paul Maholm ——–> Cubs
Per Paul Maholm on Twitter.
[quote name=Aisle424]Paul Maholm ——–> Cubs
Per Paul Maholm on Twitter.[/quote]
(dying laughing)
Must have grown tired of waiting for the Cubs to announce it
Anyone score a TD yet?
yea, Alabama. 21-0 thought because extra point missed (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate](dying laughing)
Must have grown tired of waiting for the Cubs to announce it[/quote]Nick Cafardo is busy tonight.
[quote name=mb21]Nick Cafardo is busy tonight.[/quote]
Don’t worry, some Manchester United beat writers are probably on it.
[quote name=Aisle424]Paul Maholm ——–> Cubs
Per Paul Maholm on Twitter.[/quote]
Garza trade in 3…2…1…
This story ended terribly.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/breaking/chi-son-of-packers-offensive-coordinator-missing-20120109,0,2264702.story
I was going to post something new, but this is all I came up with. I didn’t want to just to post this so here it is:
Red Sox beat writer Nick Cafardo must have been busy tonight since Paul Maholm had to break the news that he had signed with the Cubs on twitter. Even though the Cubs are going to be a very bad team it’s hilarious that the most informed journalist isn’t a Cubs sportswriter, but rather a Red Sox one. The terms of the deal are not yet know, but we can estimate it.
CAIRO projects 0.4 WAR over 175 innings while Oliver projets 1.9 over 178 innings. Bill James projects roughly 1.5 WAR over just under 150 innings. That’s an average of 1.3 WAR. Hopefully it’s only a one year contract as I see little to no reason to sign someone of that quality beyond that. Over 1 year that’s $6.5 million in value.
If it’s a two year deal and we use this method we’d just pay Maholm a million bucks less per year over two years or a total of $11 million. We’d get a projected value of .8 WAR in 2013. Doing it that way gives us a 2-year, $10.7 million contract. Considering the loss in velocity, I’d hope for something like 2 years and $9 million at most. I’d much prefer a 1-year deal for around $5 million.
[quote name=mb21]I was going to post something new, but this is all I came up with. I didn’t want to just to post this so here it is:
Red Sox beat writer Nick Cafardo must have been busy tonight since Paul Maholm had to break the news that he had signed with the Cubs on twitter. Even though the Cubs are going to be a very bad team it’s hilarious that the most informed journalist isn’t a Cubs sportswriter, but rather a Red Sox one. The terms of the deal are not yet know, but we can estimate it.
CAIRO projects 0.4 WAR over 175 innings while Oliver projets 1.9 over 178 innings. Bill James projects roughly 1.5 WAR over just under 150 innings. That’s an average of 1.3 WAR. Hopefully it’s only a one year contract as I see little to no reason to sign someone of that quality beyond that. Over 1 year that’s $6.5 million in value.
If it’s a two year deal and we use this method we’d just pay Maholm a million bucks less per year over two years or a total of $11 million. We’d get a projected value of .8 WAR in 2013. Doing it that way gives us a 2-year, $10.7 million contract. Considering the loss in velocity, I’d hope for something like 2 years and $9 million at most. I’d much prefer a 1-year deal for around $5 million.[/quote]This should have been a new post.
[quote name=Berselius]Don’t worry, some Manchester United beat writers are probably on it.[/quote](dying laughing) I’m stealing your line from earlier today, b.
@PWSullivan @wpbc He’s also the first person other than @nickcafardo to break #cubs news this offseason.
[quote name=Aisle424]This should have been a new post.[/quote]Don’t tell me what to do.
[quote name=Aisle424]This should have been a new post.[/quote]
[quote name=Rice Cube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8X_Ot0k4XJc[/quote]Nice snark.
Cafardo was right about the cubs wrt their interest in fielder, pujols, darvish, wilson, etc… pretty much all of the fa’s that are out there. He hasn’t scooped any of the trades that I can recall, which would be expected if his source wanted to keep a lid on the negotiations. I think it’s pretty clear that he keeps in touch with theo, which is interesting given the distaste for him on some of the more intelligent redsox fanboards.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/41123-the-different-looks-of-nick-cafardo/
I looked back to see if Cafardo was leading the charge in any of the infamous smear campaigns that seem to inevitably emerge following the departure of popular players/coaches from the bosox, and couldn’t find anything. So that’s nice, since I think we’ve all had our fill of those here in chicago. (Although I suppose if theo wanted to leak something like that he might go to an inconspicuous source).
I hate to say it but kap has been correct a lot too.
[quote name=GW]Cafardo was right about the cubs wrt their interest in fielder, pujols, darvish, wilson, etc… pretty much all of the fa’s that are out there. He hasn’t scooped any of the trades that I can recall, which would be expected if his source wanted to keep a lid on the negotiations. I think it’s pretty clear that he keeps in touch with theo, which is interesting given the distaste for him on some of the more intelligent redsox fanboards.
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/41123-the-different-looks-of-nick-cafardo/
I looked back to see if Cafardo was leading the charge in any of the infamous smear campaigns that seem to inevitably emerge following the departure of popular players/coaches from the bosox, and couldn’t find anything. So that’s nice, since I think we’ve all had our fill of those here in chicago. (Although I suppose if theo wanted to leak something like that he might go to an inconspicuous source).[/quote]
Shaugnessy has the rep for being the outlet for that kind of stuff in Boston. He’s a professional troll, while Chicago was merely stuck with a hobbit.
So where’s the update about Matt Gaza the headline promises?
The most interesting part of a trade would obviosly be what the Cubs would get in return for Garza. Or maybe thea have some secret plan to trade Demp or Wells instead for some lesser prospects than Turner?
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I hate to say it but kap has been correct a lot too.[/quote]Kap’s an asshole, but he seems to be an asshole with decent sources.
Just imagine him reporting this on the radio instead of holding it to standards of the written form.
That’s Kaplan the blowhard coming through in print. Dude never had to write an article until ChicagoNow.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Just imagine him reporting this on the radio instead of holding it to standards of the written form.
That’s Kaplan the blowhard coming through in print. Dude never had to write an article until ChicagoNow.[/quote]Correct.
[quote name=DamageControlFreak]So where’s the update about Matt Gaza the headline promises?
The most interesting part of a trade would obviosly be what the Cubs would get in return for Garza. Or maybe thea have some secret plan to trade Demp or Wells instead for some lesser prospects than Turner?[/quote]Starts with the first sentence:
David Kaplan is reporting that the Cubs and Tigers are “down the road” in trade discussions. Kaplan’s quote:
.
The Cubs anticipate bringing back Rodrigo Lopez — Gordo
[quote name=mb21].[/quote]https://twitter.com/thekapman/statuses/156546571692015617?_escaped_fragment_=/thekapman/status/156546571692015617#!/thekapman/status/156546571692015617
Maybe he was just drunk when he wrote the story.
[quote name=mb21]The Cubs anticipate bringing back Rodrigo Lopez — Gordo[/quote]Guess it’s a good thing they don’t have Flaherty clogging up the 40-man then.
And I guess the 9 starters thing wasn’t a joke. The Cubs are going to start the season with a queue of barely-competent pitchers stretching to the horizon.
Have any of you every had your balls waxed? My GOD does it hurt when you get it done, but the smoothness factor afterwards is EXCELLENT.
Levine is reporting that the Maholm deal is worth 4.25m with 6.5m club option for 2013
[quote name=David Kaplan]Have any of you every had your balls waxed? My GOD does it hurt when you get it done, but the smoothness factor afterwards is EXCELLENT.[/quote]I have. I agree about the smoothness but I didn’t think it hurt at all but then again I don’t have any feeling down there so………
[quote name=JMan]Levine is reporting that the Maholm deal is worth 4.25m with 6.5m club option for 2013[/quote]I like. I imagine he’ll be worth that if not more.
Any word on the corresponding roster move?
It’s gotta be one of the relievers, right?
[quote name=Mish]It’s gotta be one of the relievers, right?[/quote]I was going to say someone who sucked, so that probably includes one of the relievers.
I updated this thread
[quote name=mb21]I updated this thread[/quote]The part ABOUT my balls could have stayed IN the comments, MB.
[quote name=mb21]I updated this thread[/quote]Damn good stuff MB. I like the commenter that asked where’s the stat that measures gonads. You should have told him “I can’t argue with you today!!” Would have shut him right up.
[quote name=Mucker]Would have shut him right up.[/quote]CorRECT
I don’t know if any other teams do ticket pricing as such but it looks like the Twins are moving to a more dynamic model:
http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/136984988.html
[quote name=Mucker]Damn good stuff MB. I like the commenter that asked where’s the stat that measures gonads. You should have told him “I can’t argue with you today!!” Would have shut him right up.[/quote]Over at BN? I haven’t read the comments since last night. Most of them were really good comments.
[quote name=mb21]Over at BN? I haven’t read the comments since last night. Most of them were really good comments.[/quote]Yeah, there were a couple of asshole comments this morning. People just can’t help themselves for hating on something they have no capacity to understand.
[quote name=Mucker]Yeah, there were a couple of asshole comments this morning. People just can’t help themselves for hating on something they have no capacity to understand.[/quote]I’d assume they didn’t read the entire article or if they did they’re not willing to accept that what they think they know may be wrong.
paul sullivan in a twitter dustup with MLBtrade rumors.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/the-best-taco-related-crimes
[quote name=dylanj]paul sullivan in a twitter dustup with MLBtrade rumors.[/quote]
[quote name=dylanj]paul sullivan in a twitter dustup with MLBtrade rumors.[/quote]Is he telling them to start providing information to him or else?
I don’t follow either of them so I’m fortunate enough to not be able to follow along.
im not sure what he is mad about. maybe some media rule im not aware of. Muskat is on Team Paul.
I’m just wondering why you’d follow Paul Sullivan. The guy breaks zero stories. I break as many stories as he does. Paul Sullivan is a fucking blogger and he’s a terrible one at that.
That’s it?
so Sullivan is mad that MLBtrade rumors posted the details without crediting him? When Maholm broke the fucking story last night himself.
What a turd.
besides if any Cub beat writer should be pissed its Cardafo
[quote name=mb21]Any word on the corresponding roster move?[/quote]
[quote name=mb21]That’s it?[/quote]It would appear so.
[quote name=dylanj]besides if any Cub beat writer should be pissed its Cardafo[/quote]Dude has two jobs so he has to take some time off every once in awhile.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/10/look-up-in-the-sky-its-saber-boy/
kWood ———> all but gone
http://www.csnchicago.com/blog/cubs-talk/post/Kaplan-Woods-time-with-Cubs-appears-all-?blockID=628204&feedID=661
Methinks Kerry Wood doesn’t understand his market value these days. He ain’t Kid K anymore.
[quote name=mb21]Methinks Kerry Wood doesn’t understand his market value these days. He ain’t Kid K anymore.[/quote]If you leave it at 1K that’s about his market value these days (dying laughing)
Pride will keep him playing. I predict a soft landing playing for Dusty in Cincinnati. He’ll get to be in Chicago more often than with the Phillies or Angels.
there will be a market for a hard throwing RP who gets a K per IP. If the cubs are serious about have good influences for the young guys Wood would be worth some extra cash.
[quote name=Mish]If you leave it at 1K that’s about his market value these days (dying laughing)[/quote]
Apparently he does and so do the other teams trying to acquire him. I like what Thoyer have done so far but in the midst of this rebuild it would be nice to have one familiar face left. Someone who I’ve rooted for since I was a teenager.
What does Wood think is “fair market value”? Surely if he wants a contract like the one the Indians gave him a couple of seasons ago, then the Cubs have to say goodbye. Is he thinking he should be getting a multi-year deal at $5-$7 million per? Good for him if he can get that deal but the Cubs shouldn’t sign him for that.
I don’t really care if the Cubs sign Wood or not. He’s worth about $2 million on a one year deal and that’s it. If they want to add a Being Kerry Wood bonus to the contract, go for it. It shouldn’t exceed $4 million and it shouldn’t exceed 1 year.
[quote name=Mucker]What does Wood think is “fair market value”? Surely if he wants a contract like the one the Indians gave him a couple of seasons ago, then the Cubs have to say goodbye. Is he thinking he should be getting a multi-year deal at $5-$7 million per? Good for him if he can get that deal but the Cubs shouldn’t sign him for that.[/quote]From what I’ve read he’s looking for $4 million in 2012 and at least a second year. So he’s probably looking for something like 2 years and $7-8 million. No thanks.
Kerry Wood:
2005: .4 fWAR
2006: -.1
2007: .4
2008: 2.2
2009: .4
2010: .2
2011: .5
Even expecting .5 WAR is probably too much. $2 million, in my opinion, is a player friendly contract.
Last year he was paid $750,000 more than he ended up being worth. Add that to $1.75 million and give him a $2.5 million contract. The end.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/10/quote-of-the-day-jon-heyman-on-jack-morris/
I don’t think he was as good of a pitcher as everyone said he was, but I also don’t think there’s any denying that Jack Morris was famous. Would that be okay with most folks if Morris went into the HOF because he was famous and not necessarily one of the best pitchers in history?
It’s like I said last time Jack Morris came up. He was very, very good until he reached 31 or 32 and then worse than average. Had he been better from 32 to 36 than he was he’s probably a HOF.
[quote name=mb21]From what I’ve read he’s looking for $4 million in 2012 and at least a second year. So he’s probably looking for something like 2 years and $7-8 million. No thanks.[/quote]The Cubs are spending $4m on building a baseball diamond for a high school and are naming it after Kerry Wood. Kerry Wood the human probably thinks he’s worth more than Kerry Wood the high school baseball diamond.
Kerry Wood is delusional and so is any fan that thinks the Cubs should blank check him because of a bowling tournament, a game that happened 13 years ago, and some sort of ambiguous clubhouse effect.
I swear this chemistry shit is the fucking placebo effect of sports. Why should a team overpay for a sugar pill?
Doc: “Mr. Smith, you have an ulcer in your esophageal lining.”
Smith: “What can I do?”
Doc: “Well, I the best thing to take is Nexium, but that runs about $40/pill. But I usually just prescribe Clubhousechemistrium for you. It doesn’t heal the ulcer, but it makes you remember junior high and you get a nice saccharine buzz. But that’ll cost you $80/pill.”
Smith: “I’ll take the Clubhousechemistrium.”
This is what fucking sports fans do all the fucking time. You want memories? That’s what fucking youtube is for. Payroll is for players who can contribute.
Look, I love Kerry Wood. I own a Wood shirsey. still wear it. Still will. But even if he can still put up a K/IP, his HR/FB is not great, and there’s a pretty good chance he’s going to spend significant chunks of the season on the DL. I barely want to pay him what he’s worth. I definitely don’t want to pay him more than that.
I love Kerry Wood, but I don’t root for players, I root for laundry.
[quote name=mb21]Last year he was paid $750,000 more than he ended up being worth. Add that to $1.75 million and give him a $2.5 million contract. The end.[/quote]
I think the Cubs have to account for Marmol being bad and needing a replacement (Wood). I know it won’t matter much since the Cubs will suck and saves are kind of irrelevant, but winning 78 games is better than 72.
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez] winning 78 games is better than 72.[/quote]
I think that if they’re going to suck, I’d rather they do it right. Less wins = higher draft pick. Marginal wins = I don’t really give a shit.
MO, I agree the Cubs should absolutely not “blank check” him and I don’t give a shit about what happened thirteen years ago. But I do think he can help this team as more than a cheerleader. Even if at the end of the day the Cubs still suck.
That’s probably selfish on my part because I’m a huge Wood fan, but fuck it (dying laughing).
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]I think the Cubs have to account for Marmol being bad and needing a replacement (Wood). I know it won’t matter much since the Cubs will suck and saves are kind of irrelevant, but winning 78 games is better than 72.[/quote]Kerry Wood adds barely half a win. Not a chance in hell he can add 6!
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]MO, I agree the Cubs should absolutely not “blank check” him and I don’t give a shit about what happened thirteen years ago. But I do think he can help this team as more than a cheerleader. Even if at the end of the day the Cubs still suck.
That’s probably selfish on my part because I’m a huge Wood fan, but fuck it (dying laughing).[/quote]Despite the gaudy K numbers, he’s really not much better than F7 at this point. Or any other RP they have, for that matter. Now he wants real money. I think you gotta walk away now. Same shit Kerry pulled last time he left. Take a hometown discount, get the fans all bleary-eyed again, then try and leverage that into a bigger deal the following offseason. If it were anybody but Kerry Wood, most Cub fans would be hanging the guy in effigy for pulling this shit.
I don’t think the Cubs are going to touch 70 wins.
[quote name=mb21]I don’t think the Cubs are going to touch 70 wins.[/quote]Funsucker.
[quote name=mb21]I don’t think the Cubs are going to touch 70 wins.[/quote]Good. I don’t like bad-to-mediocre teams. I prefer fun bad, which is usually well below mediocre.
[quote name=mb21]It’s like I said last time Jack Morris came up. He was very, very good until he reached 31 or 32 and then worse than average. Had he been better from 32 to 36 than he was he’s probably a HOF.[/quote]
I’ve always felt that Morris’s HOF case rests entirely on game 7 of the 91 WS. Everything else is post hoc rationalization to cover this fact.
[quote name=Mish]Good. I don’t like bad-to-mediocre teams. I prefer fun bad, which is usually well below mediocre.[/quote]If this FO ships out all of the comically bad baserunners and defenders like they’ve been saying it won’t be quite as comical.
[quote name=mb21]I don’t think the Cubs are going to touch 70 wins.[/quote]Yeah, you figure right now the offense looks to be worse w/o Peña, Garza will likely regress a bit, Dempster is due some age regression, Soto is a total enigma…this could be a really bad team.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, you figure right now the offense looks to be worse w/o Peña, Garza will likely regress a bit, Dempster is due some age regression, Soto is a total enigma…this could be a really bad team.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure they’ll lose 100.
[quote name=Berselius]I’ve always felt that Morris’s HOF case rests entirely on game 7 of the 91 WS. Everything else is post hoc rationalization to cover this fact.[/quote]I know by some IP or “era” criteria (maybe not even) he would have the lowest ERA+ in the Hall.
Honestly I was looking at fWAR of Radke and Morris yesterday, and the only real advantage Morris has is the 1000+ IP more (which is a legit mark in his favor). But Morris’s ERA- and FIP- were near average (I believe 95 and 97 respectfully) while Radke was closer to 11% better than league average.
I would never vote in Morris because I tend to be one of those “small hall” guys, but I have little issue with people voting for him IF they include people I think should be deserving. But if you vote Morris and leave out Bagwell/Trammell/Raines, then GTFO.
MO out, fuckfaces.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, you figure right now the offense looks to be worse w/o Peña, Garza will likely regress a bit, Dempster is due some age regression, Soto is a total enigma…this could be a really bad team.[/quote]Count Ramirez in that too, but Soto should be all right since it’s an even-numbered year. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Berselius]I’ve always felt that Morris’s HOF case rests entirely on game 7 of the 91 WS. Everything else is post hoc rationalization to cover this fact.[/quote]I don’t know how the voters are voting or why, but to me it’s really as simple as replacing a couple of his down seasons at the end of his career with 4 WAR seasons and he’s in: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1009211&position=P
[quote name=Aisle424]I’m pretty sure they’ll lose 100.[/quote]If they trade Garza it’s a real possibility. If they trade Byrd and/or Dempster at the deadline it may even be likely. This is the worst Cubs team that will take the field on Opening Day in well over a decade. I was thinking about an article yesterday about how every game at Wrigley this year was a throwback game to the 90s.
Signing Maholm means Wells or Garza is gone.
I don’t understand the Morris love. That guy is borderline at best. Raines is probably Top 5 best leadoff hitter in history. How he continues to get shit on by the voters is outrageous. Career .810 OPS and .374 wOBA from a leadoff hitter? 808 steals at 85%? I don’t get it.
IDK, with improved baserunning and defense (which will surely help the pitching) I can see this team being competitive. Essentially meaning they can stay in a lot of games, but still probably losing. At least they can be in a position to win some they would have easily lost last year. I say over/under for wins is 72.
That over/under includes a full season of Garza and Dempster, btw. If one or both are gone- all bets are off.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15820
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]MO out, fuckfaces.[/quote]Shit, and I was waiting for you to turn up to ask you something.
[quote name=Mucker]I don’t understand the Morris love. That guy is borderline at best. Raines is probably Top 5 best leadoff hitter in history. How he continues to get shit on by the voters is outrageous. Career .810 OPS and .374 wOBA from a leadoff hitter? 808 steals at 85%? I don’t get it.[/quote]I haven’t done any research but in the past 30 years I gotta say he’s likely the 2nd best leadoff man behind Henderson.
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]IDK, with improved baserunning and defense (which will surely help the pitching) I can see this team being competitive. Essentially meaning they can stay in a lot of games, but still probably losing. At least they can be in a position to win some they would have easily lost last year. I say over/under for wins is 72.[/quote]I’ll take the under. If this is the Cubs team this year I’d say 68 wins. If they get rid of Garza that’s about 66 considering his replacement.
[quote name=Mish]I haven’t done any research but in the past 30 years I gotta say he’s likely the 2nd best leadoff man behind Henderson.[/quote]Definitely……I was thinking Cobb, Henderson, and probably Raines 3rd but said Top 5 just to be safe. It really is bullshit. I’m biased because I used to love Rock Raines when i was a kid.
[quote name=Mucker]Definitely……I was thinking Cobb, Theriot, Henderson, and probably Raines 4th but said Top 5 just to be safe. It really is bullshit. I’m biased because I used to love Rock Raines when i was a kid.[/quote].
Nerds in love:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/06/lego-marriage-proposal_n_1190623.html
[quote name=Mish]http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15820[/quote]Mish, I’ve been meaning to say for a long time that you are the king of posting links with no annotation whatsoever. You just expect us to fucking blindly click it every time. Maybe that’s your deal, and I can respect an attitude that says “I’m not going to fucking summarize shit for people”. And indeed, sometimes you can tell what it’s about by hovering the mouse over it. But then sometimes you can’t. Mish, I’m not going to fucking click it. Sorry.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Mish, I’ve been meaning to say for a long time that you are the king of posting links with no annotation whatsoever. You just expect us to fucking blindly click it every time. Maybe that’s your deal, and I can respect an attitude that says “I’m not going to fucking summarize shit for people”. And indeed, sometimes you can tell what it’s about by hovering the mouse over it. But then sometimes you can’t. Mish, I’m not going to fucking click it. Sorry.[/quote]
(dying laughing)
Solid gold.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Shit, and I was waiting for you to turn up to ask you something.[/quote]Ask away, I’ll answer when I get back to this computer later this afternoon.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Mish, I’ve been meaning to say for a long time that you are the king of posting links with no annotation whatsoever. You just expect us to fucking blindly click it every time. Maybe that’s your deal, and I can respect an attitude that says “I’m not going to fucking summarize shit for people”. And indeed, sometimes you can tell what it’s about by hovering the mouse over it. But then sometimes you can’t. Mish, I’m not going to fucking click it. Sorry.[/quote]Apology accepted.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Mish, I’ve been meaning to say for a long time that you are the king of posting links with no annotation whatsoever. You just expect us to fucking blindly click it every time. Maybe that’s your deal, and I can respect an attitude that says “I’m not going to fucking summarize shit for people”. And indeed, sometimes you can tell what it’s about by hovering the mouse over it. But then sometimes you can’t. Mish, I’m not going to fucking click it. Sorry.[/quote]http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2012/1/10/garzas-slider-key-to-strikeout-surge.html
[quote name=mb21]Signing Maholm means Wells or Garza is gone.[/quote]Or they want to keep Turner down until May.
I wonder if there is a correlation between winning and charity work. Why hasn’t fangraphs done this yet?
anybody see courtney upshaw accept the MVP award last night?
touch dat thang folk is now my favorite expression
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Ask away, I’ll answer when I get back to this computer later this afternoon.[/quote]You truly read every word.
Just wondering if you know some way to access a soft copy of this article via academic library channels or whatever.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2079699
Bruce Miles Twitter:
[quote name=mb21]Signing Maholm means Wells or Garza is gone.[/quote]Or Dempster.
So what have we go in the rotation as it stands now?
Garza
Dempster
Wells
Volstad
Maholm
You can start Wood in AAA if you have to wait to clear a spot out of the rotation. Could they put Wells back in AAA without exposing him to waivers? Plus they’ll have Sonnanstine and Rodrigo floating around as fill-ins and then the “prospects.”
[quote name=Mish]Apology accepted.[/quote](dying laughing)
[quote name=Mish]http://www.baseballanalytics.org/baseball-analytics-blog/2012/1/10/garzas-slider-key-to-strikeout-surge.html[/quote]+1 for descriptive URL.
http://twitter.com/#!/JonHeymanCBS
Does he think it’s a beauty contest?
[quote name=jtsunami]Or they want to keep Turner down until May.[/quote]Right now they have Garza, Dempster, Maholm, Wells, Volstad and Wood
We know they’re using Volstad and Wood in the rotation and it’s hard to believe this front office would take a serviceable starter like Wells and just move into the bullpen.
I expect if they acquire Turner he’ll begin the year in AAA like Rizzo will, but even if they trade Garza the rotation is full. One of Garza or Wells is gone.
[quote name=Mucker]Definitely……I was thinking Cobb, Henderson, and probably Raines 3rd but said Top 5 just to be safe. It really is bullshit. I’m biased because I used to love Rock Raines when i was a kid.[/quote]Cobb wasn’t a leadoff hitter; he was a middle-of the order slugger (I think he hit third most of his career). Sure, he didn’t hit a lot of home runs (though he led the league once), and he stole a ton of bases, but this is the deadball era.
[quote name=Aisle424]Or Dempster.
So what have we go in the rotation as it stands now?
Garza
Dempster
Wells
Volstad
Maholm
You can start Wood in AAA if you have to wait to clear a spot out of the rotation. Could they put Wells back in AAA without exposing him to waivers? Plus they’ll have Sonnanstine and Rodrigo floating around as fill-ins and then the “prospects.”[/quote]Wood does have one option remaining so that’s a possibility, but didn’t Theo or Hoyer say he’s going to be in the rotation?
Volstad has at least two options remaining, but they won’t be paying him $2.6 million so they can option him to the minor leagues.
I actually don’t think there’s much (if any) real value in looking at the best players for a lineup slot for HOF consideration. Should the best no. 8 hitter be in the HOF? Leadoff hitters tend not to be the best hitters on their teams.
[quote name=ACT]Cobb wasn’t a leadoff hitter; he was a middle-of the order slugger (I think he hit third most of his career). Sure, he didn’t hit a lot of home runs (though he led the league once), and he stole a ton of bases, but this is the deadball era.[/quote]Really? Damn, I thought he was a leadoff hitter. Fuck my ass. Well shit that moves Raines higher on the list.
[quote name=ACT]I actually don’t think there’s much (if any) real value in looking at the best players for a lineup slot for HOF consideration. Should the best no. 8 hitter be in the HOF? Leadoff hitters tend not to be the best hitters on their teams.[/quote]I agree but I was thinking more along the lines of the certain types of players that are usually lead off hitters. It’s usually faster, OBP guys that can get on base and get into scoring position quickly. That’s what I was basically referring to.
[quote name=Mucker]Fuck my ass.[/quote]
I’ll go ahead and flag this myself.
[quote name=ACT]I actually don’t think there’s much (if any) real value in looking at the best players for a lineup slot for HOF consideration. Should the best no. 8 hitter be in the HOF? Leadoff hitters tend not to be the best hitters on their teams.[/quote]
Except that leadoff hitters are far more valuable to their teams than no. 8 hitters.
b-ref only has splits going back to 1919, but still, even in the live-ball era, Cobb almost never led off: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cobbty01&year=Career&t=b#lineu
[quote name=ACT]b-ref only has splits going back to 1919, but still, even in the live-ball era, Cobb almost never led off: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=cobbty01&year=Career&t=b#lineu/quoteShit I always thought he was a leadoff hitter. I guess you learn something everyday.
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Except that leadoff hitters are far more valuable to their teams than no. 8 hitters.[/quote]Yes, but the 3 and 4 hitters are usually more valuable than the leadoff hitters, at least the way lineups are typically structured.
[quote name=Suburban kid]You truly read every word.
Just wondering if you know some way to access a soft copy of this article via academic library channels or whatever.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2079699/quote
Fire me an email SK (my username at gmail) and I can send it to you.
[quote name=Mucker]Shit I always thought he was a leadoff hitter. I guess you learn something everyday.[/quote]Even a century ago, there was a bias for managers to put their best hitters in the middle of the lineup (RBI’s are cooler than runs). I imagine Ty would have felt insulted if he were asked to lead off.
[quote name=Mucker] Fuck my ass[/quote]
Don’t tell me what to do.
[quote name=ACT]Yes, but the 3 and 4 hitters are usually more valuable than the leadoff hitters, at least the way lineups are typically structured.[/quote]
True. I just always thought there was value in being a great lead-off guy because it requires a special set of offensive and OBP skills. You can almost compare it to being really good at one defensive position.
I thought Cobb was a leadoff hitter too.
[quote name=ACT]Even a century ago, there was a bias for managers to put their best hitters in the middle of the lineup (RBI’s are cooler than runs). I imagine Ty would have felt insulted if he were asked to lead off.[/quote]It’s crazy because it seems he would have been an ideal lead off hitter based on his stats. But I guess those are easily skewed considering the era he played in.
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]True. I just always thought there was value in being a great lead-off guy because it requires a special set of offensive and OBP skills. You can almost compare it to being really good at one defensive position.[/quote]If managers used the leadoff spot this way (putting quality hitters there), I might be willing to give the argument more weight. But as it is, leadoff hitters mostly are just mediocre hitters who run well. Hardly an ideal talent pool to compare with for HOF consideration.
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7446618/chicago-cubs-offer-kerry-wood-substantial-raise
To paraphrase for SK: Cubs offered Wood substantial raise
[quote name=Mucker]It’s crazy because it seems he would have been an ideal lead off hitter based on his stats. But I guess those are easily skewed considering the era he played in.[/quote]He was also the top “slugger” of his day, regularly leading the league in SLG and OPS.
Jeff Samardzija ——–> rotation
And stolen bases were so common in the deadball era, that it was not uncommon for a “run producer” to steal a lot.
So that’s Garza, Dempster, Maholm, Wood, Volstad, Wells, Samardzija, Sonnanstine
They weren’t fucking around when they said they needed 8 to 9 starters.
[quote name=mb21]So that’s Garza, Dempster, Maholm, Wood, Volstad, Wells, Samardzija, Sonnanstine
They weren’t fucking around when they said they needed 8 to 9 starters.[/quote]So 9 man rotation would be what? About 15 starts apiece?
[quote name=Mucker]So 9 man rotation would be what? About 15 starts apiece?[/quote]18. Exactly.
[quote name=ACT]18. Exactly.[/quote]
New market inefficiency exploited. Cubs win.
[quote name=mb21]It’s like I said last time Jack Morris came up. He was very, very good until he reached 31 or 32 and then worse than average. Had he been better from 32 to 36 than he was he’s probably a HOF.[/quote]
I disagree with that. His age 36 & 37 years were pretty damn good. He had 4 what I would call bad years and 2 of them were on bad teams and the other 2 were his last 2 years in the league. Considering he averaged 250 innings a year from age 25 through age 37 minus a couple years with totals under that. The 1989 Tigers were pathetic they won 59 games which was his age 34 year.
[quote name=mb21]http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7446618/chicago-cubs-offer-kerry-wood-substantial-raise
To paraphrase for SK: Cubs offered Wood substantial raise[/quote]
When Jed says “substantial” it better not be much beyond the 2.1MM he was worth last year.
[quote name=mb21]Jeff Samardzija ——–> rotation[/quote]Wut. Really?
[quote name=Pinetar]I disagree with that. His age 36 & 37 years were pretty damn good. He had 4 what I would call bad years and 2 of them were on bad teams and the other 2 were his last 2 years in the league. Considering he averaged 250 innings a year from age 25 through age 37 minus a couple years with totals under that. The 1989 Tigers were pathetic they won 59 games which was his age 34 year.[/quote]From age 33 on he was 8% worse than league average: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morrija02.shtml#1988-1994-sum:pitching_standard
Call it bad teams or whatever you want, but a 4.50 ERA for the final 7 seasons of your career is going to put a huge dent in whatever HOF hopes you had.
Morris was a very good pitcher who had a very, very good start to his career, but he faded early. As Colin pointed out in his article today, those who did watch him weren’t even that impressed. Here are the Cy Young votes in the 80s:
Pitcher Points
Steve Carlton 2.333
Roger Clemens 1.943
Bret Saberhagen 1.893
Rick Sutcliffe 1.558
Fernando Valenzuela 1.558
Dan Quisenberry 1.486
Dwight Gooden 1.483
Mike Scott 1.433
Orel Hershiser 1.317
Frank Viola 1.036
Dave Stewart 0.914
Rollie Fingers 0.900
Mark Davis 0.892
John Denny 0.858
La Marr Hoyt 0.829
Steve Stone 0.714
Pete Vuckovich 0.679
Ron Guidry 0.679
Mike Norris 0.650
Willie Hernandez 0.629
Steve McCatty 0.600
Tom Seaver 0.558
Jack Morris 0.543
John Tudor 0.542
Mario Soto 0.533
Strong arguments can be made he was on his way to the HOF through age 32, but after that he faded.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Wut. Really?[/quote]According to Hoyer, yes.
[quote name=mb21]According to Hoyer, yes.[/quote]Well, let’s hope for the best then (dying laughing)
.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Well, let’s hope for the best then (dying laughing)[/quote]He’ll end up in the bullpen. Can’t imagine he pitches well enough to beat out anyone for a spot in the rotation. Not even sure he could beat out anyone for a spot in the bullpen in all honesty.
Ah…from Muskat’s Twitter:
So they’ll stretch him out and if he sucks he could still wind up in the bullpen.
Or what you just said.
[quote name=mb21]From age 33 on he was 8% worse than league average: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/morrija02.shtml#1988-1994-sum:pitching_standard
Call it bad teams or whatever you want, but a 4.50 ERA for the final 7 seasons of your career is going to put a huge dent in whatever HOF hopes you had.
Morris was a very good pitcher who had a very, very good start to his career, but he faded early. As Colin pointed out in his article today, those who did watch him weren’t even that impressed. Here are the Cy Young votes in the 80s:
Pitcher Points
Steve Carlton 2.333
Roger Clemens 1.943
Bret Saberhagen 1.893
Rick Sutcliffe 1.558
Fernando Valenzuela 1.558
Dan Quisenberry 1.486
Dwight Gooden 1.483
Mike Scott 1.433
Orel Hershiser 1.317
Frank Viola 1.036
Dave Stewart 0.914
Rollie Fingers 0.900
Mark Davis 0.892
John Denny 0.858
La Marr Hoyt 0.829
Steve Stone 0.714
Pete Vuckovich 0.679
Ron Guidry 0.679
Mike Norris 0.650
Willie Hernandez 0.629
Steve McCatty 0.600
Tom Seaver 0.558
Jack Morris 0.543
John Tudor 0.542
Mario Soto 0.533
Strong arguments can be made he was on his way to the HOF through age 32, but after that he faded.[/quote]
Take 4 seasons out of his career and his career numbers take a drastic turn. 89,90 & 93,94 and the 89 year was on one of the worst teams in history so I don’t even count it. I know they count career wise but he was what I call old school finished what he started and stats suffered because of it.
More Selig…
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/10/report-bud-selig-to-get-a-two-year-extension/
[quote name=Pinetar]Take 4 seasons out of his career and his career numbers take a drastic turn. 89,90 & 93,94 and the 89 year was on one of the worst teams in history so I don’t even count it. I know they count career wise but he was what I call old school finished what he started and stats suffered because of it.[/quote]If you take 4 seasons out of his career you have to take 4 seasons out of everybody’s career. I agree with you more than I disagree. I think he’s pretty damn close to being a HOF while a lot of others instantly dismiss it, but we can’t take his worst seasons away.
Morris isn’t even that close for me. 105 ERA+, 97 FIP-. He never had an ERA less than 3.00, and his career ERA is higher than any HOFer. I’d say Dave Stieb deserves more consideration, but he fell off on the first ballot.
[quote name=mb21]If you take 4 seasons out of his career you have to take 4 seasons out of everybody’s career. I agree with you more than I disagree. I think he’s pretty damn close to being a HOF while a lot of others instantly dismiss it, but we can’t take his worst seasons away.[/quote]
I agree with that but still the 89 Tigers were atrocious. I watched him pitch countless times in the early to late 80′s and during that time he was one of the best pitchers in the AL and when it came to big game pitchers was one of the best in the game.
[quote name=Pinetar]I agree with that but still the 89 Tigers were atrocious. I watched him pitch countless times in the early to late 80′s and during that time he was one of the best pitchers in the AL and when it came to big game pitchers was one of the best in the game.[/quote]I watched him a lot in the 80s as well. I enjoyed watching him. I agree with what Mish said. If we put Morris in we have to put others in that are more deserving. I don’t particularly care if it’s a small hall or a big one so it doesn’t much matter to me. As long as the voting is consistent.
[quote name=ACT]Morris isn’t even that close for me. 105 ERA+, 97 FIP-. He never had an ERA less than 3.00, and his career ERA is higher than any HOFer. I’d say Dave Stieb deserves more consideration, but he fell off on the first ballot.[/quote]
When you throw 250 innings a year and average 15 complete games for roughly 6-7 years ERA will suffer. Runs given up late in games when out of gas I could care less about. ERA+ 1 more stat that if not used with anything else doesn’t tell the entire story. Don’t sit and use 1 stat without looking at all of them.
[quote name=ACT]Morris isn’t even that close for me. 105 ERA+, 97 FIP-. He never had an ERA less than 3.00, and his career ERA is higher than any HOFer. I’d say Dave Stieb deserves more consideration, but he fell off on the first ballot.[/quote]
Steib doesn’t come anywhere close to Morris and Steib was good.
Morris’ numbers don’t vary that much by inning or score. Also, if you’re going to give him credit for pitching so many innings, you have to consider how effective those innings are.
[quote name=ACT]Morris isn’t even that close for me. [/quote]I’m with you.
Jack Morris: 3824 IP, 1815 R
Charlie Hough: 3801.1 IP, 1807 R
[quote name=ACT]Jack Morris: 3824 IP, 1815 R
Charlie Hough: 3801.1 IP, 1807 R[/quote]
Hough wasn’t a full time starter until age 34. Big difference other than IP near the same number. Hough pitched until he was 46 and was a knuckle baller.
I don’t really care about age or type of pitcher. All I care about is how much they pitched and how well. I also don’t care about Morris’ alleged ability to limp to the finish line in a blowout. That’s not a valuable skill; it’s a waste of a good arm.
@FloydMayweather Floyd Mayweather
Manny Pacquiao I’m calling you out let’s fight May 5th and give the world what they want to see.
How much does the “fame” part of the equation factor in to Jack Morris’ case though?
[quote name=Rice Cube]How much does the “fame” part of the equation factor in to Jack Morris’ case though?[/quote]
Is it any wonder they’ll reject him first?
[quote name=Rice Cube]How much does the “fame” part of the equation factor in to Jack Morris’ case though?[/quote]I don’t think it really should, at all. On that point, it’s like putting Tommy John in because he had a surgery named after him.
anybody else see that Russell Crowe was cast as Inspector Javert? PMayo must be proud
[quote name=dylanj]anybody else see that Russell Crowe was cast as Inspector Javert? PMayo must be proud[/quote]
I thought tyger was Javert?
[quote name=Mish]I don’t think it really should, at all. On that point, it’s like putting Tommy John in because he had a surgery named after him.[/quote]Lou Gehrig is in because he has a disease named after him.
[quote name=Berselius]I thought tyger was Javert?[/quote]
was he? my memory is fading.
[quote name=Aisle424]Lou Gehrig is in because he has a disease named after him.[/quote]
I see your points about the fame thing. I think, however, that’s the main reason why Morris gets so much support and guys like Trammell and Whitaker get shafted.
[quote name=Rice Cube]
I see your points about the fame thing. I think, however, that’s the main reason why Morris gets so much support and guys like Trammell and Whitaker get shafted.[/quote]
But I mean, how famous is Jack Morris? He’s not like Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb or Mickey Mantle. I doubt he’s much known at all outside of people who pay attention to baseball, and people who became fans after his career ended aren’t necessarily going to be talking much about him.
[quote name=Mish]But I mean, how famous is Jack Morris? He’s not like Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb or Mickey Mantle. I doubt he’s much known at all outside of people who pay attention to baseball, and people who became fans after his career ended aren’t necessarily going to be talking much about him.[/quote]I can see your point there…I guess that depends on how many people actually tuned in for the 1991 World Series.
[quote name=Aisle424]Lou Gehrig is in because he had a disease.[/quote]
Just like Magic Johnson is in the basketball HOF for AIDS.
[quote name=Rice Cube]I can see your point there…I guess that depends on how many people actually tuned in for the 1991 World Series.[/quote]
I didn’t really start watching baseball til 1993…I didn’t know much of Jack Morris (I knew he existed) until I started exploring stats and baseball history.
[quote name=Mish]I didn’t really start watching baseball til 1993…I didn’t know much of Jack Morris (I knew he existed) until I started exploring stats and baseball history.[/quote]I started following baseball in 1989 when the A’s won and then forgot about it until I visited my family in Toronto while the Blue Jays were on their little run. So I missed Jack Morris even when he went to the Blue Jays (I basically knew the Canadians won something and that was it).
/cool story bro
The decay of civilization continues:
[quote name=Mish]Just like Magic Johnson is in the basketball HOF for AIDS.[/quote]And Jose Bird Flu made it in the swimming HOF.
tyger : TheHawk :: Ins. Javert : Jean Valjean
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]tyger : TheHawk :: Ins. Javert : Jean Valjean[/quote]Correct. I was Brainy Smurf.
DPLEETED
And Ryno was TheHawk.
this blog has never recovered from losing TheHawk. Everything hit its peak with the animated recaps of the blog war
NM, I had your addy already.
[quote name=Aisle424]Lou Gehrig is in because he has a disease named after him.[/quote]He may not have even had that disease: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/aug/17/lou-gehrig-disease-baseball-death
[quote name=dylanj]this blog has never recovered from losing TheHawk. Everything hit its peak with the animated recaps of the blog war[/quote]You wouldn’t know a ’54 Château d’Yquem from a bottle of Boone’s Farm Orange Pineapple.
Email, SK.
Such Poetry. Quasi Papal Outfit. Orange Chicken.
those were the days when blogs were blogs and men were nerds
[quote name=dylanj]Such Poetry. Quasi Papal Outfit. Orange Chicken.
those were the days when blogs were blogs and men were nerds[/quote]Stop reading your ZORPDORK 2.0 manual and go get some fine Asian ass.
[quote name=dylanj]And Ryno was TheHawk.[/quote]
I wish.
[quote name=dylanj]this blog has never recovered from losing TheHawk. Everything hit its peak with the animated recaps of the blog war[/quote]
Agreed. He was the gift that kept on giving.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Stop reading your ZORPDORK 2.0 manual and go get some fine Asian ass.[/quote]
You stupid fucking faggot. You are now my most devoted reader.
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]You stupid fucking faggot. You are now my most devoted reader.[/quote]Maybe its phenomenology.
Did any of you predict the 2007 Rockies?
Dunno who else here watches Archer but Bryan Cranston is gonna make an appearance: http://www.avclub.com/articles/bryan-cranston-to-bring-a-little-cranston-to-arche,67453/
[quote name=dylanj]Did any of you predict the 2007 Rockies?[/quote]Livan Hernandez says no, they did not.
Thank you MO, and b. I got the email. Much obliged!
Shit, this is going to completely change who is going to fall into the bad person category:
http://www.metro.co.uk/film/886965-kim-novak-accuses-the-artist-of-rape-for-using-alfred-hitchcock-film-music
rape is the new nazi in the sense that everyone uses the word to show how bad something that isnt nearly as bad as rape or nazi’s are.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]You wouldn’t know a ’54 Château d’Yquem from a bottle of Boone’s Farm Orange Pineapple.[/quote]
Of course I wouldn’t, I only drink from cans.
[quote name=fang2415]Shit, this is going to completely change who is going to fall into the bad person category:
http://www.metro.co.uk/film/886965-kim-novak-accuses-the-artist-of-rape-for-using-alfred-hitchcock-film-music/quote
MishFang, I’ve been meaning to say for a long time that you are the king of posting links with no annotation whatsoever. You just expect us to fucking blindly click it every time. Maybe that’s your deal, and I can respect an attitude that says “I’m not going to fucking summarize shit for people”. And indeed, sometimes you can tell what it’s about by hovering the mouse over it. But then sometimes you can’t.MishFang, I’m not going to fucking click it. Sorry.[quote name=Mish]Dunno who else here watches Archer but Bryan Cranston is gonna make an appearance: http://www.avclub.com/articles/bryan-cranston-to-bring-a-little-cranston-to-arche,67453//quote
I’m still laughing at the thought of Archer’s reaction to Burt Reynolds playing himself and dating Archer’s mother.
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]
MishFang, I’ve been meaning to say for a long time that you are the king of posting links with no annotation whatsoever. You just expect us to fucking blindly click it every time. Maybe that’s your deal, and I can respect an attitude that says “I’m not going to fucking summarize shit for people”. And indeed, sometimes you can tell what it’s about by hovering the mouse over it. But then sometimes you can’t.MishFang, I’m not going to fucking click it. Sorry.[/quote]Apology accepted.BTW, I’m still going to post unannotated links. Haters gonna hate.
thats fucking awesome
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]
MishFang, I’ve been meaning to say for a long time that you are the king of posting links with no annotation whatsoever. You just expect us to fucking blindly click it every time. Maybe that’s your deal, and I can respect an attitude that says “I’m not going to fucking summarize shit for people”. And indeed, sometimes you can tell what it’s about by hovering the mouse over it. But then sometimes you can’t.MishFang, I’m not going to fucking click it. Sorry.[/quote]Sorry. The following is a link to an item at the Metro news website wherein the writer describes describes how Kim Novak accuses “The Artist” of rape for using Alfred Hitchcock film music. The further details of this matter may be amusing to some of you in the context of recent discussions on the subject of rape on the comments of this blog. You can read about these details by visiting the link using a web browser.http://www.metro.co.uk/film/886965-kim-novak-accuses-the-artist-of-rape-for-using-alfred-hitchcock-film-music
[quote name=Berselius]Of course I wouldn’t, I only drink from cans.[/quote]While listening to Slipknot and tipping cows.
(dying laughing), I hadn’t read every comment yet. I stand by my response though.
[quote name=dylanj]rape is the new nazi in the sense that everyone uses the word to show how bad something that isnt nearly as bad as rape or nazi’s are.[/quote]This is slightly different, but I strongly dislike it when rape is used casually to mean “win decisively” in sports or business deals or any sort of situation where someone gains big time and another loses.
[quote name=fang2415]Sorry. The following is a link to an item at the Metro news website wherein the writer describes describes how Kim Novak accuses “The Artist” of rape for using Alfred Hitchcock film music. The further details of this matter may be amusing to some of you in the context of recent discussions on the subject of rape on the comments of this blog. You can read about these details by visiting the link using a web browser.
http://www.metro.co.uk/film/886965-kim-novak-accuses-the-artist-of-rape-for-using-alfred-hitchcock-film-music/quoteI figured it was something like that from the URL.
Mish posts shit like http://www.baseballfagetry.com/1240.php and assumes you’ll want to read it.
[quote name=Suburban kid]This is slightly different, but I strongly dislike it when rape is used casually to mean “win decisively” in sports or business deals or any sort of situation where someone gains big time and another loses.[/quote]
[quote name=Mish]BTW, I’m still going to post unannotated links. Haters gonna hate.[/quote]Do what you gotta do man.
[quote name=dylanj]rape is the new nazi in the sense that everyone uses the word to show how bad something that isnt nearly as bad as rape or nazi’s are.[/quote]Maybe. Although when I heard the love theme from Vertigo on the soundtrack of The Artist, it was at least in the same league as the Holocaust.
i find Mo’s use of posters to articulate a viewpoint nazi-ish. I feel my eyes have been raped.
[quote name=Suburban kid]I figured it was something like that from the URL.
Mish posts shit like http://www.baseballfagetry.com/1240.php and assumes you’ll want to read it.[/quote]Everything at baseballfagetry.com is worth reading.
[quote name=dylanj]i find Mo’s use of posters to articulate a viewpoint nazi-ish. I feel my eyes have been raped.[/quote]I will rape this fascistic comment by flagging it myself.
[quote name=Suburban kid]I figured it was something like that from the URL.
Mish posts shit like http://www.baseballfagetry.com/1240.php and assumes you’ll want to read it.[/quote]
Don’t presume to tell me what I assume.
[quote name=Suburban kid]This is slightly different, but I strongly dislike it when rape is used casually to mean “win decisively” in sports or business deals or any sort of situation where someone gains big time and another loses.[/quote]That’s gay.
[quote name=Suburban kid]Do what you gotta do man.[/quote]Don’t presume to tell me what to do.
[quote name=dylanj]i find Mo’s use of posters to articulate a viewpoint nazi-ish. I feel my eyes have been raped.[/quote]
I wonder what number Maholm (pronounced Ma-HOL-um) will wear, since he wore 28 in Pittsburgh, which Jeff Baker has now.
/Al
[quote name=Suburban kid]I wonder what number Maholm (pronounced Ma-HOL-um) will wear, since he wore 28 in Pittsburgh, which Jeff Baker has now.
/Al[/quote]Link please
Holy. Shit.
Tim Tebow now has cheezy 80′s songs being remade in his honor.
[quote name=Suburban kid]I wonder what number Maholm (pronounced Ma-HOL-um) will wear, since he wore 28 in Pittsburgh, which Jeff Baker has now.
/Al[/quote]They’ll have a fart-lighting contest for it.
/Edelweiß
[quote name=Suburban kid]I wonder what number Maholm (pronounced Ma-HOL-um) will wear, since he wore 28 in Pittsburgh, which Jeff Baker has now.
/Al[/quote][quote name=fang2415]Link please[/quote]I like how SK is the anti-Mish in providing the content before providing the faget-y link.
[quote name=fang2415]Link please[/quote]
Be patient. He hasn’t written it yet.
[quote name=Rice Cube]I like how SK is the anti-Mish in providing the content before providing the faget-y link.[/quote]
http://www.wecompleteeachother.com
[quote name=Rice Cube]I like how SK is the anti-Mish in providing the content before providing the faget-y link.[/quote]I refuse to read descriptions.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]They’ll have a fart-lighting contest for it.
/Edelweiß[/quote]
My good friend Paul Sullivan will tell us who won at Kitty’s.
/BK
[quote name=Mish]www.wecompleteeachother.com[/quote]That’s not gay?
[quote name=Suburban kid]That’s not gay?[/quote]You raped me with that one.
[quote name=Mish]You raped me with that one.[/quote]PWPEDZIED
How long do you think it will take for Cubs beat writers to break the news that the Cubs signed Paul Maholm? I’m guessing his second start.
[quote name=jtsunami]How long do you think it will take for Cubs beat writers to break the news that the Cubs signed Paul Maholm? I’m guessing his second start.[/quote]Maholm broke the news, Dierkes got the figures, and Paul Sullivan, a man who practices self-plagiarization with regularity of a Greenwich Clock, had the temerity to get angry and accuse Dierkes of stealing.
Paul Sullivan is a bad person. A small, petty, bad person.
[quote name=fang2415]Sorry. The following is a link to an item at the Metro news website wherein the writer describes describes how Kim Novak accuses “The Artist” of rape for using Alfred Hitchcock film music. The further details of this matter may be amusing to some of you in the context of recent discussions on the subject of rape on the comments of this blog. You can read about these details by visiting the link using a web browser.
http://www.metro.co.uk/film/886965-kim-novak-accuses-the-artist-of-rape-for-using-alfred-hitchcock-film-music/quote
That should have been a fanshot.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Maholm broke the news, Dierkes got the figures, and Paul Sullivan, a man who practices self-plagiarization with regularity of a Greenwich Clock, had the temerity to get angry and accuse Dierkes of stealing.
Paul Sullivan is a bad person. A small, petty, bad person.[/quote]I actually thought Bruce Levine wrote the blog on ESPNChicago first for the Chicago guys but I almost never read Paul Sullivan’s stuff so I could be wrong.
[quote name=Mish]You raped me with that one.[/quote]
It’s beginning to look like the inability to hire and fire one’s own coach is going to cost the Bears any shot a real GM. Don’t be surprised if Ruskell is elevated within the next 2 weeks.
Paul Sullivan was the one who hunted you guys down at a bar one time right?
[quote name=jtsunami]Paul Sullivan was the one who hunted you guys down at a bar one time right?[/quote]He supposedly made some noise about us to the HJE guys. Who knows what was actually said. (A lot of Dutch courage flowing that night) or if it even happened, as HJE has been known to spoof these things before.
anybody from this blog going to be representing at the Cubs Con?
Koyie Hill ——> Cardinals
(dying laughing)
Reds supposedly looking at Kerry Wood as closer.
Cards signed Koyie Hill. He’s finally on the right side of the rivalry
[quote name=dylanj]Cards signed Koyie Hill. He’s finally on the right side of the rivalry[/quote]
Now that Theriot, Fontenot, and KPat have rings, the 4th horseman has to get his before the world ends later this year.
[quote name=Berselius]Now that Theriot, Fontenot, and KPat have rings, the 4th horseman has to get his before the world ends later this year.[/quote]Yeah, but what finger is he going to put it on?
[quote name=dylanj]anybody from this blog going to be representing at the Cubs Con?[/quote]I can’t remember if And Counting is going and I believe Aisle 424 is a game time decision. No idea what berselius is doing.
[quote name=mb21]I can’t remember if And Counting is going and I believe Aisle 424 is a game time decision. No idea what berselius is doing.[/quote]They said you can be reinstated if you live blog from the For Women Only session.
[quote name=dylanj]anybody from this blog going to be representing at the Cubs Con?[/quote]If any of us go, Paul Sullivan’s pocket knife will turn blue.
[quote name=Mucker]Yeah, but what finger is he going to put it on?[/quote]That’s what the finger tape is for.
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]That should have been a fanshot.[/quote]I almost wrote that. (dying laughing)
[quote name=fang2415]I almost wrote that. (dying laughing)[/quote]Paul Sullivan, Plagiarism Cop, is on the case!
[quote name=Jon Morosi]@redeyesportsguy Popular because #Cubs went 106-88 in his starts. Job of the backup catcher is not to hit .333.[/quote](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
[quote name=Aisle424](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]Clubhousechemestrium, stat! 50 cc’s!
[quote name=mb21]I can’t remember if And Counting is going and I believe Aisle 424 is a game time decision. No idea what berselius is doing.[/quote]Last I knew AC is going. I have been upgraded to Probable.
Someday, you’ll have to come in for a Cubs Con, MB. The people watching is just fantastic.
[quote name=Aisle424](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]For the record, that was Jon Morosi of FOXSports saying that. Jesus christ, why do people who are paid to know about baseball suck so bad at their job?
[quote name=Aisle424]Someday, you’ll have to come in for a Cubs Con, MB. The people watching is just fantastic.[/quote]But the benzoin tincture shower required afterwards sucks.
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]
[/quote]I like this. I must eat a dead animal now.
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]
[/quote]Impossible. You can add bacon to the standing rib roast to IMPROVE the rib roast. Bacon wins, and it’s not even close.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Impossible. You can add bacon to the standing rib roast to IMPROVE the rib roast. Bacon wins, and it’s not even close.[/quote]I can’t argue with you today. Alas, we have no bacon at home.
/sad story bro
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]But the benzoin tincture shower required afterwards sucks.[/quote]Alcohol usually does the job for me.
[quote name=Aisle424]Alcohol usually does the job for me.[/quote]The only place scuzzier than that ballroom are the bars around the hotel.
So the fact that Koyie Hill often caught Zambrano doesn’t matter at all to the winning percentage? If Koyie Hill is this God like figure to some of the fans, I can’t imagine what Zambrano is. Oh wait, he’s Mexican so fuck him.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Impossible. You can add bacon to the standing rib roast to IMPROVE the rib roast. Bacon wins, and it’s not even close.[/quote]Couldn’t you add a rib roast to bacon?
[quote name=mb21]So the fact that Koyie Hill often caught Zambrano doesn’t matter at all to the winning percentage? If Koyie Hill is this God like figure to some of the fans, I can’t imagine what Zambrano is. Oh wait, he’s Mexican so fuck him.[/quote]I think most fans dislike Koyie Hill. That was Jon Morosi trying to justify his use of the word “popular” as a descriptor for Koyie.
JonHeymanCBS Jon Heyman
according to #cubs person, likely they start year with soriano in left field. should be in AL, but big $ to work out
[quote name=GBTS]Couldn’t you add a rib roast to bacon?[/quote]
GBTS has just discovered the commutative property of meat addition.
/math
Little more on the potential Garza deal.
http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2012/01/latest-on-garza-deal-not-just-tigers-in-on-garza/#comments
Oh, and
.
[quote name=GBTS]Couldn’t you add a rib roast to bacon?[/quote]STANDING rib roasts lack the transitive property, and even if they did, the roast would only be a foil to the bacon, not an improvement to it, being as bacon is a Platonic Form.
[quote name=dylanj]Cards signed Koyie Hill. He’s finally on the right side of the rivalry[/quote]Theo wins.
Game, blouses.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Clubhousechemestrium, stat! 50 cc’s![/quote]When shit gets bad in the clubhouse, he doesn’t point fingers.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]STANDING rib roasts lack the transitive property, and even if they did, the roast would only be a foil to the bacon, not an improvement to it, being as bacon is a Platonic Form.[/quote]
[quote name=Rodrigo]Little more on the potential Garza deal.
http://www.chicagonow.com/cubs-den/2012/01/latest-on-garza-deal-not-just-tigers-in-on-garza/#comments/quoteI'm not confident the Cubs can land Turner for Garza straight up, but I wonder if that’s possible if they add Josh Vitters to the deal.
with the news of uncle bud signing i think this classic 1060w headline is only fitting!
http://1060west.blogspot.com/2008/01/selig-to-be-commisioner-forever.html
[quote name=mb21]I’m not confident the Cubs can land Turner for Garza straight up, but I wonder if that’s possible if they add Josh Vitters to the deal.[/quote]
I can’t believe we don’t have a new thread since the Cardinals just signed a retired carpenter who should be paying the Cardinals to play for them. Yay negative WAR.
[quote name=jtsunami]I can’t believe we don’t have a new thread since the Cardinals just signed a retired carpenter who should be paying the Cardinals to play for them. Yay negative WAR.[/quote]Hey, it works for the Broncos.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Hey, it works for the Broncos.[/quote]There’s no proof that Koyie is a good person, though. Unless the wooden chair he attempted to make was going to an orphanage.
[quote name=jtsunami]There’s no proof that Koyie is a good person, though. Unless the wooden chair he attempted to make was going to an orphanage.[/quote]No, even better: he was planning to donate the fingers to fingerless war orphans.
Based on nothing, I think Koyie Hill is a good person. Because if he isn’t, then I really have no idea how he’s in the Bigs.
[quote name=Mish]Based on nothing, I think Koyie Hill is a good person. Because if he isn’t, then I really have no idea how he’s in the Bigs.[/quote]Because he was employed by the Cubs. Doug Dascenzo and Men’s Fitness agree.
FWIW, I just watched Hot Stove on MLB and Gammons said that he’s been told that the Tigers told the Cubs they are not interested. What a fucking liar!!
[quote name=Mucker]FWIW, I just watched Hot Stove on MLB and Gammons said that he’s been told that the Tigers told the Cubs they are not interested. What a fucking liar!![/quote]I think his source is a different breed of Spaniel than Phil Rogers’ source.
[quote name=Mucker]FWIW, I just watched Hot Stove on MLB and Gammons said that he’s been told that the Tigers told the Cubs they are not interested. What a fucking liar!![/quote]I assume all reports at this point are just posturing. It’s clear the Tigers aren’t going to meet the Cubs demands (same for any other team). If the Cubs are unwilling to lower their demands as has been reported elsewhere then I’d assume all teams are out.
I have no doubt that it was the Cubs that leaked Turner’s name. I’m as confident of that as I am that it was Theo who provided information to the media about the mess the Red Sox clubhouse was.
[quote name=mb21]I assume all reports at this point are just posturing. It’s clear the Tigers aren’t going to meet the Cubs demands (same for any other team). If the Cubs are unwilling to lower their demands as has been reported elsewhere then I’d assume all teams are out.[/quote]I think there’s less of a market for Garza than there is for Fielder.
It’s very odd to me that after the MIA and LAAAAofLALALALALALALALA spending sprees, the FA and trade markets have totally dried up. If it hadn’t been for the Pujols, Reyes, and Wilson deals, one might suspect collusion had once again reared its ugly head…
[quote name=mb21]I assume all reports at this point are just posturing. It’s clear the Tigers aren’t going to meet the Cubs demands (same for any other team). If the Cubs are unwilling to lower their demands as has been reported elsewhere then I’d assume all teams are out.[/quote]Agreed.
I always had a feeling that was Luchino fwiw
[quote name=mb21]I have no doubt that it was the Cubs that leaked Turner’s name. I’m as confident of that as I am that it was Theo who provided information to the media about the mess the Red Sox clubhouse was.[/quote]Agreed. I hate that kind of shit, too.
[quote name=Rodrigo]I always had a feeling that was Luchino fwiw[/quote]That’s possible, but I’d bet a lot of money on it being Theo.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Agreed. I hate that kind of shit, too.[/quote]I don’t like it either. Theo is a more intelligent GM than most, but in other ways he’s just every other GM.
[quote name=mb21]I don’t like it either. Theo is a more intelligent GM than most, but in other ways he’s just every other GM.[/quote]Yeah. I really hate this negotiating through the media shit. Fucking MacPhail was the worst about that shit.
Cubs will get Turner. Done deal sealed
[quote name=dylanj]Cubs will get Turner. Done deal sealed[/quote]Paul Sullivan would like to protest your use of the word “deal” without properly crediting him.
Joe Poz —————> NSSA National Sportswriter of the Year
Paul Sullivan ———–> Saruman’s hobbit lackey
Didn’t Matheney almost cut off his hand with a hunting knife? Maybe he’s looking for solidarity?
Madson to the Reds
new shit: http://www.obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/taking-a-closer-look-at-the-cubs-supersized-rotation.html