Hoyer and McLeod press conference

3 pm central

‘Tis Central time, m’lord.

[quote name=work sucks]I’m assuming by 3pm, you mean 3pm Central, so really 4pm, right? (dying laughing)[/quote]
I demand you list all times as GMT and refuse to acknowledge DST, just to confuse everyone

They found the Freese HR call from BBC radio or something and overlaid it on the MLB.com video. It was actually a very good call.

Video of an airplane landing in Poland without landing gear:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15543209

Fire away.

[quote name=GBTS]Video of an airplane landing in Poland without landing gear:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15543209

Fire away.[/quote]Unbelievable that that thing held together that well.

[quote name=GBTS]That’s actually a standard landing in Warsaw. Polish engineers design their planes to jettison their landing gear after take off. Makes the planes lighter.[/quote]I had to read this three times and I still don’t know if serious.

[quote name=Berselius]I demand you list all times as GMT and refuse to acknowledge DST, just to confuse everyone[/quote]IMO Chicago is -5 hours to GMT

[quote name=WaLi]IMO Chicago is -5 hours to GMT[/quote]
That’s just your opinion.

[quote name=Aisle424]It would be awesome if the pilot was the same dude that landed on the Hudson a couple years ago.[/quote]Sulski?

[quote name=ACT]I’m enjoying the test pattern so far. I bet the press conference will be even better.[/quote]
They decided the test pattern was so good that they cut the press conference short

[quote name=GBTS]Sulski?[/quote]Sullenberger, I think.

this crowd may appreciate this

[quote name=Rice Cube]Does it strike anyone as funny that even the Cubs press conference room has obstructed views?[/quote]This should have been an Unobstructed View.

[quote name=Rice Cube]Nice snark. I’m watching you.[/quote]STOP WITH THE SNARK TALK, OR I WILL SNARK-FUCK THE EVERLOVING SHIT OUT OF YOU.

Jed Hoyer —> Played in movie by Guy Pierce

Is Theo chewing gum?

[quote name=work sucks]

this crowd may appreciate this[/quote]That is awesome. (dying laughing)

Jed Hoyer: Just happy to be here, will do everything Theo tells me to do.

Nuveen Investments is loving this offseason.

[quote name=fang2415]Nuveen Investments is loving this offseason.[/quote]I was thinking the same thing. (dying laughing)

Players who do things the right way. Ryne Sandberg will be the new manager.

[quote name=ACT]Jed impresses by naming the towns of the Cubs’ minor league affiliates.[/quote]I was very surprised he did that already. Very nice on his part.

Everyone loves Theo.

Someone get those cameras out of there so these guys can make out.

Loooooooooooooove is in the air

Methinks I like what this McLeod fellow is saying.

“I love the people here and respect everybody in this organization tremendously. Also, Quade is fired.”

[quote name=AndCounting]Here’s the outline:

I love you guys.
World Series.
I love you guys so, so, so much.
We’re good at our jobs.
Everyone at the Cubs is pretty cool.[/quote]I can’t argue with you today.

[quote name=Berselius]All of this is still hard to believe. I keep waiting for Theo to shout “Psych!” and put on a Red Sox hat[/quote]This was the Cubs long, drawn out version of The Decision.

[quote name=AndCounting]Question 1: After hearing you guys praise each other for 15 minutes, I’d like to know if you’re glad to be working together again?[/quote]Finally a relevant question.

[quote name=Rice Cube]He’s young enough to have honed his skills playing “Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego?” so I was not surprised.[/quote]Carmen was last seen watching Josh Vitters play a home game. Carmen is in ____.

Oh shit. He danced around the question, but with conviction.

Follow up question: Who owns the Cubs?

[quote name=AndCounting]Follow up question: Who owns the Cubs?[/quote]Someone should ask another question about their roles. What does General Manager mean?

DISSENT

Good question by Rozner over who will run the draft.

McLeod and Hoyer are gonna lose those San Diego tans this winter

These guys all have a smirk on their face like the Cubs media has no clue how easy it is to run a baseball team.

Bleacher nation is “live-blogging”. My POS computer at work doesn’t have sound. I’m watching mouths move.

Question about Zambrano

“I can take that.”

Theo wins.

Zambrano!

[quote name=Rice Cube]The Zambrano question![/quote][quote name=mb21]Question about Zambrano[/quote][quote name=Berselius]Theo takes the Z question (dying laughing)[/quote]Is that like a question about Carlos Zambrano?

[quote name=work sucks]Is McLeod way bigger than the other 2?[/quote]Yeah, he’d easily kick their ass at the same time. Neither of them are going to fuck with McLeod.

“He had a terrific career while he was here”

Aramis gone

Thank you Theo Epstein. All Aramis Ramirez haters can go suck a nut.

[quote name=mb21]You should quit until you get audio.[/quote]
I quit my job because the computer didn’t have audio which would allow me to listen to press conferences when I’m supposed to be working. Now I make meth with a former client and drive a bicycle. I am the 99%

No more Aramis.

[quote name=AndCounting]No more Aramis.[/quote]
I’m surprised we got such a straightforward answer about that.

[quote name=work sucks]I quit my job because the computer didn’t have audio which would allow me to listen to press conferences when I’m supposed to be working. Now I make meth with a former client and drive a bicycle. I am the 99%[/quote]At least you put a lot of thought into it and made an intelligent decision.

[quote name=mb21]defense[/quote]
See also: old.

So what did you guys think about the Zambrano answer?

One last thing: it appears a major Cubs player and frequent media cheap-shot recipient is on the way out and is being treated with dignity and class by the organization. WTF is that about?

[quote name=mb21]So what did you guys think about the Zambrano answer?[/quote]I think they’re on the fence about trying to keep him and derive as much value as they can with him in uniform. Or they’re being purposefully ambiguous so as not to hurt trade value. It could go either way.

I think Yellon got an invite

So…who replaces Aramis?

Do the Cubs look for a short-term FA , or do they swing a trade for somebody like a Chase Headley (assuming the rumors are correct and he is available)? Surely, Thoyer won’t trot out a DJ Baker platoon next year, right?

Z pitched today

3 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 2 BB, 2 K. 40 pitches, 26 strikes

I missed it. I was too busy being violently ill.

[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]So…who replaces Aramis?

Do the Cubs look for a short-term FA , or do they swing a trade for somebody like a Chase Headley (assuming the rumors are correct and he is available)? Surely, Thoyer won’t trot out a DJ Baker platoon next year, right?[/quote]The last front office would have signed Fielder and converted him to a 3rd baseman. Then they’d have signed CJ Wilson and moved him to 1st.

I don’t know what the Cubs do, but I’m pretty sure it’s not that.

[quote name=GBTS]Is it at all possible Castro moves to 3rd?[/quote]winning-the-lottery-possible

[quote name=mb21]The last front office would have signed Fielder and converted him to a 3rd baseman. Then they’d have signed CJ Wilson and moved him to 1st.

I don’t know what the Cubs do, but I’m pretty sure it’s not that.[/quote]
You never know, MB. That’s the beauty of short hops.

[quote name=mb21]True. I think they should sign whoever is cheapest and hope for the best.[/quote]Are there any good 3B on the free agent market? Looks like the ranked free agents are more 2B/SS than 3B (except for Ramirez). If the 3B heap is crap, unless they are going to bump Castro to 2B or 3B, they might as well just have an in-house platoon.

3B market from MLBTR:

Third basemen
Wilson Betemit (30) – Type B
Casey Blake (38)
Jorge Cantu (30)
Eric Chavez (34)
Craig Counsell (41)
Mark DeRosa (37)
Greg Dobbs (33)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Kevin Kouzmanoff (30)
Andy LaRoche (28)
Felipe Lopez (32)
Jose Lopez (28)
Nick Punto (34)
Aramis Ramirez (34) – Type B
Omar Vizquel (45)

Not exactly inspiring.

[quote name=Rice Cube]3B market from MLBTR:

Third basemen
Wilson Betemit (30) – Type B
Casey Blake (38)
Jorge Cantu (30)
Eric Chavez (34)
Craig Counsell (41)
Mark DeRosa (37)
Greg Dobbs (33)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Kevin Kouzmanoff (30)
Andy LaRoche (28)
Felipe Lopez (32)
Jose Lopez (28)
Nick Punto (34)
Aramis Ramirez (34) – Type B
Omar Vizquel (45)

Not exactly awe inspiring.[/quote]
.

Omar Visquel is just the kind of young talent this club can use.

[quote name=Rice Cube]3B market from MLBTR:

Third basemen
Wilson Betemit (30) – Type B
Casey Blake (38)
Jorge Cantu (30)
Eric Chavez (34)
Craig Counsell (41)
Mark DeRosa (37)
Greg Dobbs (33)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (36)
Kevin Kouzmanoff (30)
Andy LaRoche (28)
Felipe Lopez (32)
Jose Lopez (28)
Nick Punto (34)
Aramis Ramirez (34) – Type B
Omar Vizquel (45)

Not exactly inspiring.[/quote]
Counsell/Vizquel platoon.

[quote name=fang2415]Counsell/Vizquel platoon.[/quote]Either that or Lopez/Lopez.

[quote name=ACT]He could platoon with DeWitt.[/quote]Is he like the Koyie Hill of 3B? Why platoon a switch hitter? (dying laughing)

[quote name=ACT]Wait, nevermind. Betemit is good from left side, terrible from right side.[/quote]Oh…with DJ LeMahieu then?

Sign Pujols, move him to third, keep Pena.

Are any of the guys who happen to not be senior citizens on that list any good at fielding and throwing the ball?

None of them seem to look like guys that would appeal to the Super Friends.

Epstein has talked to Z’s agent but still wants to talk with Z

[quote name=Rice Cube]Are there any good 3B on the free agent market? Looks like the ranked free agents are more 2B/SS than 3B (except for Ramirez). If the 3B heap is crap, unless they are going to bump Castro to 2B or 3B, they might as well just have an in-house platoon.[/quote]
If Thoyer wants to improve the defense, a shift of one of the SS/2B guys to 3rd would make a lot of sense.

/defensive spectrum’d

I’ve suggested in the past that maybe Youk would be available, especially if the Red Sox bring back Ortiz. Although I’m not too sure he has shown he can play a healthy 3B for a full season.

[quote name=Rice Cube]This is interesting…

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/01/the-cubs-expect-to-make-a-decision-on-mike-dead-man-walking-quade-within-a-week/

Towards the end it seems Calcaterra is suggesting that the waiting game is to see if Quade will quit first. I don’t think that’s really the case, but food for thought.[/quote]I don’t think Quade quits.

[quote name=mb21]I don’t think Quade quits.[/quote]I don’t think so either. I just found it interesting that Calcaterra would suggest that.

Meanwhile… at the Hall of Justice Wrigley Field…

[quote name=GBTS]Yeah, then imagine the other 161 games. (dying laughing)[/quote]
(dying laughing)

[quote name=mb21]I don’t see the Red Sox bringing Ortiz back.[/quote][quote name=mb21]I don’t think Quade quits.[/quote][quote name=mb21]I don’t think that’s good enough. [/quote]Don’t you like anything?

[quote name=Aisle424]Gleek.[/quote]The Wonder Twins’ monkey? He’s actually sort of useful though.

[quote name=Aisle424]Gleek.[/quote]
Todd is a Glee fan?

[quote name=Berselius]Hoyer: Relying on external solutions to building a winning baseball team is a bad idea, and it’s something we need to get past

h/t Bruce Miles[/quote]In other words, get used to sucking for awhile, Cubs fans. I’m pretty sure most Cubs fans don’t understand that’s what it means and they’ll be calling for Thoyer’s head in 2 years.

[quote name=Aisle424]I actually forgot about him, but only because he’s pretty much the only guy who hasn’t been mentioned. I forgot Randy Bush too.[/quote]
You forgot Poland.

[quote name=Berselius]Hoyer: Relying on external solutions to building a winning baseball team is a bad idea, and it’s something we need to get past

h/t Bruce Miles[/quote]Wow, this. When he was talking about watching players who played the right way come up and success in the majors, I was thinking, “what, you mean not just hoping that they’ll be good by random chance?”

[quote name=The Daily Herald]IThe arrival of two key executives to work with new Cubs president Theo Epstein didn’t lead to any immediate resolutions on the futures of some key figures on the team last season — namely manager Mike Quade, pitcher Carlos Zambrano and free agent first baseman Aramis Ramirez.

The Cubs introduced Jed Hoyer as the team’s new vice president/general manager and Josh McLeod as their vice president/scouting and player development to the media Tuesday at Wrigley Field, but it was their old boss — Epstein — who fielded the toughest questions..[/quote]I wonder why this article wasn’t locked away behind the premium pay wall.

Didn’t that same article refer to Jed as Jud?

[quote name=Aisle424]Clockwise from the top left corner:

Hoyer, Laura Ricketts, Wilken, Kenney, Theo, Pete Ricketts, Mcleod, The Todd, Oneri Fleita, Tommy.[/quote]
Ornery Fleita was the one I didn’t recognize. Isn’t there another “stats” guy named Wasserschmasser or something that they have on hand to figure out who has the most RBIs on even-numbered Thursdays?

[quote name=mb21]In other words, get used to sucking for awhile, Cubs fans. I’m pretty sure most Cubs fans don’t understand that’s what it means and they’ll be calling for Thoyer’s head in 2 years.[/quote]
I’d be curious to hear or read the context in which that was said. Relying on external solutions to solve roster problems long term is dumb, but to utterly eschew it when there are players out there that can help form a core for the immediate and long-term future, especially when the money’s there, is equally as stupid.

Alvin has Yelloned Rob Neyer.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/11/1/2531144/jed-hoyer-cubs-general-manager

[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]I’d be curious to hear or read the context in which that was said. Relying on external solutions to solve roster problems long term is dumb, but to utterly eschew it when there are players out there that can help form a core for the immediate and long-term future, especially when the money’s there, is equally as stupid.[/quote]Combined with what Theo has said so far, I think it’s at least fair to assume the Cubs will spend little money on free agents in the next 2 to 3 years. The Cubs farm system sucks and all of them have said that you have to have a very good system in order to be competitive on an annual basis. Theo said the goal isn’t to get there for one year and disappear for four.

It sounds to me like the first part of the plan is to build the farm system and that’s going to take at least a couple drafts and international signing periods. I don’t expect the Cubs will be spending much on free agents in the near future.

[quote name=Aisle424]Alvin has Yelloned Rob Neyer.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/11/1/2531144/jed-hoyer-cubs-general-manager/quote(dying laughing) Neyer brings up the exact same thing I was thinking today. I’ve also wondered why on earth Hoyer would leave SD to take a job in Chicago where he’d have lesser power and if the team wins, the only person getting any congratulations will be Theo. Hoyer will be a very good GM for the Cubs. I just don’t think he’d be as good as Theo so I am disappointed to hear that Theo won’t be doing the same shit he’s been doing.

[quote name=mb21]It’s sad, but of those 78%, most of them are just complete idiots.[/quote]
Doesn’t help that they are coddled as the next superstar for the better part of their adolescence. What is more sad is the untold stories of the majority of guys who don’t make the league or never make a roster. Most never graduate from college or have meaningless degrees because they were at school to do one thing and that had nothing to do with learning or turning into a responsible adult.

From the Onion

(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)

[quote name=mb21]Alvin is nuts if he thinks Hoyer is getting credit for a WS Champion Cubs. Here’s the list of people who will get more credit than Hoyer:

Theo
Manager
Tom Ricketts
Pitching Coach
Hitting Coach
Bench Coach
Maybe the 1st base or 3rd base coach
all 25 guys on the team
Their grade school girlfriends
Hoyer[/quote]

It’s entirely possible Hoyer doesn’t give a shit if Theo et al get the lion’s share of the credit with the fans and the press so long as those in the biz understand his contribution. I mean, very few GMs in baseball period get a bright light on them in comparison to the rest of their organizations when things are going well. GMs are always among the last to get attention.

It’s also possible that this is Theo’s last press conference for awhile and that he intends to go more underground. If Hoyer is doing all the day to day stuff, then it’s his face and his words we’re going to be seeing, hearing, and reading the majority of the time going forward.

We don’t know the numbers, but I suspect there are a few million reasons why Hoyet and McLeod left SD. We say this all the time about players, the same should apply here.

The high profile of the job should help too. Hoyet isn’t going to get much credit from the fans if the Cubs succeed but should get Plenty of love from the insider crowd.

[quote name=Berselius]We don’t know the numbers, but I suspect there are a few million reasons why Hoyet and McLeod left SD. We say this all the time about players, the same should apply here.

The high profile of the job should help too. Hoyet isn’t going to get much credit from the fans if the Cubs succeed but should get Plenty of love from the insider crowd.[/quote]Good post. +1 Hoyet point.

/Permanently ruining curtain’d

Also if the Hall Of Juatice falls, the blame will also fall to Theo.

[quote name=Aisle424]Alvin has Yelloned Rob Neyer.

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/11/1/2531144/jed-hoyer-cubs-general-manager/quoteWait a minute, is that a serious article? I could swear I already read that as a parody of Alvin’s Ricketts interview, but with the names changed.

What about Crane Kenney? I thought he gets all the credit.

[quote name=Berselius]Also if the Hall Of Juatice falls, the blame will also fall to Theo.[/quote]yeah, but that was always the case. It was the same way with Don Baylor, Dusty Baker and Lou Piniella. If they win they’re heros, but if they lose, they’re going to get run out of town. The same will happen to Theo. If the team isn’t winning within 5 years, he’ll be gone. Take the hatred the media and fans have directed at Zambrano, Soriano and Ramirez and that combination is going to be half as much as will be directed at Theo.

My guess is that Theo just doesn’t want to deal with the day to day crap anymore. He’ll still have a big hand in this, but I just wish he was doing what Hoyer will be doing.

b’s autocorrect is a cunt.

[quote name=Berselius]Also if the Hall Of Juatice falls, the blame will also fall to Theo.[/quote]

[quote name=fang2415]Wait a minute, is that a serious article? I could swear I already read that as a parody of Alvin’s Ricketts interview, but with the names changed.[/quote]
Did they ever answer what portion of Carlos Silva’s contract the Cubs are to pay the next 15 years?

[quote name=bubblesdachimp]This is so absurd

http://www.amazon.com/when-theo-met-tom-ebook/dp/b00624exis/ref=sr_1_3?s=digital-text&ie=utf8&qid=1320184549&sr=1-3

(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]Meh, I don’t know if it’s that bad an idea. Package all the articles the Trib’s written about the GM search and sell for the price of one newspaper. If you haven’t been paying attention and want to catch up, that’s actually kind of a handy product. Except for all the articles being total shit, of course. (dying laughing)

Al: I admit, this is an unusual way of doing things. Theo is “President of Baseball Operations”. Jed is “Executive VP/GM”. Jed reports to Theo. Theo reports to Tom Ricketts.

Rob: Yes. I know what the org chart looks like.

(dying laughing)

It’s just weird.

I don’t think so.

Total control doesn’t mean as much for a small-market team where excellence can’t be sustained because they constantly have to sell it off for the unknown. Perhaps Hoyer likes the idea of less control, more resources, the chance to develop players he can keep long-term, and blame that gets spread around if things don’t go well right away.

[quote name=fang2415]Wow, I am a being a total dick here, but I love your phone keyboard. I read “Hall Of Juatice” and thought of the headquarters of a South American military junta.[/quote]At least it didn’t come up as hall of jaundice (dying laughing)

[quote name=Berselius]Different responsibilities. Kenney’s job was to control the purse strings and take care of finances, not to direct minor leaguers to take a walk.[/quote]Do you really think Theo is going to get involved in that stuff as president? I suspect he’ll read the cliff notes version that Hoyer passes him and that’s it. Remember, Theo did refer to Kenney as his partner on the business side. There were rumors early on that Theo would be taking a larger role on the business side.

Nobody looks at the Indians and thinks that Shapiro is running the show. Nobody looks at the Red Sox and thinks Lucchino is running the show. Nobody looks at the world champion Cardinals and thinks for even a split second that DeWitt III was running the show. Even for the Rangers, people look at Jon Daniels as the one who is primarily in charge of damn near everything regarding the roster.

Are Shapiro, Lucchino, DeWitt and Ryan involved? Yeah, obviously, but these aren’t the guys building the roster. That’s Antonetti, Theo (now Cherington), Mozeliak and Daniels.

I would be very surprised if Theo is not deeply involved in the majority of transactions. It’s entirely possible we’re in unmarked territory here and that there’s no precedent for how things are going to be run.

And I honestly don’t believe that Theo and Hoyer give much of a shit what their titles are. It wouldn’t surprise me if much of Theo being President has to do with getting him out of Boston. It could be that the Red Sox were going to force Theo to stay if the Cubs were only going to offer a lateral move (I still do not believe the Red Sox are all that happy about Theo leaving). So the Cubs adjusted and splintered the President title in two, making Theo Super GM and Crane Kenney Overlord of Bobbleheads and Foam Fingers. This also forced compensation to stay at an endurable level, as, with Selig stepping in now, there’s almost no chance the Red Sox get anything close to what they want. It also made it easier for the Cubs to get Hoyer as he is not technically taking a demotion, though in reality, he pretty much is (and he seems to be fine with that).

[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]I would be very surprised if Theo is not deeply involved in the majority of transactions. It’s entirely possible we’re in unmarked territory here and that there’s no precedent for how things are going to be run.

And I honestly don’t believe that Theo and Hoyer give much of a shit what their titles are. It wouldn’t surprise me if much of Theo being President has to do with getting him out of Boston. It could be that the Red Sox were going to force Theo to stay if the Cubs were only going to offer a lateral move (I still do not believe the Red Sox are all that happy about Theo leaving). So the Cubs adjusted and splintered the President title in two, making Theo Super GM and Crane Kenney Overlord of Bobbleheads and Foam Fingers. This also forced compensation to stay at an endurable level, as, with Selig stepping in now, there’s almost no chance the Red Sox get anything close to what they want. It also made it easier for the Cubs to get Hoyer as he is not technically taking a demotion, though in reality, he pretty much is (and he seems to be fine with that).[/quote]This. At the PC they banged on a lot about how every fucking thing would be decided by consensus after hours of all three of them making out in the boardroom.

Jed will be the one who makes the phone calls and pays attention to what time the GM on the other side of the deal gets back from lunch, but Theo’s going to have just as much input as he does into any serious major league deals (that is, anything not involving Scott Maine).

The Superfriends tag is a good one for that reason — they’re going to do this together. If one gets more credit than the others, meh, what do we care?

Maybe it’s just that the task at hand is much bigger than almost any other situation. Very big market. New owner with equal amounts of patience for the long haul and urgency to get things turned around as quickly as possible, at least to stem the tide of unsold tickets. And finally, the smallest front office in the game overseeing one of the worst farm systems out there.

Maybe this requires lots of smart guys, and not just one. Maybe they all love the scale of the challenge (and scope of potential rewards).

Tomorrow Tom Ricketts hires Mark Shapiro to be President of Presidential Operations. It’s a role that obviously is second in line to him and Theo now reports to the PoPO. He gives Theo $1 million per year to try to appease him.

Does Theo quit in a year? A month? A week? Less?

Hoyer wasn’t in any jeopardy of losing his job this year and probably not next year either unless shit went sideways in San Diego. People generally don’t accept a demotion, even if it comes with a raise, if they’re not in fear of losing their job in the very near future.

This doesn’t mean he wouldn’t, but would Theo stick around with a new PoPO and a raise? I don’t know for sure, but my guess is that he’d quit within two days of Shapiro being hired.

I just don’t see him taking a demotion when he already makes good money and presumably has a lot of it saved. The same is true for Hoyer. He’s not in need of a job. Maybe he just desperately wants to work for Theo and will get his coffee to make it happen. I have no idea. I don’t know these guys. All I know is that most people who are financially well off and not immediately in danger of losing their job don’t have a tendency to accept a demotion.

As I said, maybe that’s just who Hoyer is.

[quote name=Suburban kid 23]Maybe it’s just that the task at hand is much bigger than almost any other situation. Very big market. New owner with equal amounts of patience for the long haul and urgency to get things turned around as quickly as possible, at least to stem the tide of unsold tickets. And finally, the smallest front office in the game overseeing one of the worst farm systems out there.

Maybe this requires lots of smart guys, and not just one. Maybe they all love the scale of the challenge (and scope of potential rewards).[/quote]This also. Theo’s day-to-day job is going to be to build the Cubs Way (TM). Jed’s is going to be to keep an eye on the trade wire or rule 5s or whatever it is GMs do. McLeod’s is going to be to spend all day staring at Dominican pitch mechanics or whatever it is that those guys do. Any serious decisions on any of those fronts are going to involve Theo at least and possibly the whole supergroup.

[quote name=mb21]This whole “togetherness” thing sounds nice, but it’s the reality of all front offices. Jim Hendry never sat around and said, I want this guy regardless of what Randy Bush, Crane Kenney, the scouts or Tom Ricketts says. They all worked together to achieve the same goal just as the new front office will. But who was responsible for the Cubs roster? Was it the owner? The president? The scouts? The assistant GM? Jim Hendry?

Everybody’s input was considered in putting it together, but Jim Hendry made the final decision and from what I could tell today, Hoyer will make the final decision (assuming it’s not a massive contract that would need ownership approval).[/quote]My guess is that Theo will be more involved than an owner would but slightly less than a normal GM. I doubt many decisions get made without his input, but having a separate GM allows him to leave the operational details to Hoyer.

I’m not quite sure what to make of this analogy, but I’m now thinking of how Cheney exerted total control over the breathing patterns of the entire executive branch, but checked with Bush’s gut for any actual decision. (dying laughing)

I would have been thrilled if the Cubs only hired Hoyer. I’m beyond thrilled they also hired the others, but I’d rather Theo be doing the day to day shit (he was pretty damn good at that in Boston).

I can understand due to their pre-existing relationship why he would rather work for/with Theo than the SD owner.

Why didn’t he stay in Boston?

I’d also add that the fact the Cubs have 2 presidents indicates that it’s not a traditional structure. If Theo.wants to run business ops why would he take the job knowing Kenney is already doing that? I don’t see Theo having much involvement in non-baseball related matters. I don’t think he’ll have anything to do with the stadium renovation or the revenue side. Theo came here at least in part because he didn’t like having Lucchino between himself and ownership. Now he can run a baseball team without that interference.

[quote name=mb21]I’m guessing Theo spend about half his time on the business side of the game with Kenney. The other half will be overseeing the baseball operations, which will primarily be led by Jed Hoyer. Theo will work with Kenney and Ricketts to increase revenue and at some point soon to get Wrigley renovated. Hoyer will be the guy who negotiates with free agents and when a deal is near he and Theo will go over what Hoyer and others have already gone over and they’ll make a decision. I expect McLeod to focus entirely on the minor leagues. He’ll be working closely with Oneri Fleita as they implement new strategies and benchmarks for prospects. McLeod will work closely with Wilken and some other scouts in working the draft and international free agents. Fleita will work with minor league instructors to implement the whatever it is that McLeod wants implemented.

McLeod’s role I’m pretty confident in. I think I can see with some level of certainty what he’ll be doing.[/quote]
I’d say I agree with all of that except Theo being that involved on the business side, which I haven’t heard anything about except made-up stuff by the beat writers. Also, from what was said today I get the sense that Hoyer is going to be almost totally focussed on the big-league club rather than baseball ops as a whole.

I expect Hoyer will make most of the decisions regarding the roster with some input from Theo.

Theo will make sure all the shit is in place to be a successful organization. He’ll be evaluating Hoyer, Bush, other assistants, McLeod and others. Because of how time consuming that likely is, Hoyer will make most decisions regarding the roster.

You have to give Hoyer the freedom to make these decisions or you can never fire him. You can’t hold him responsible for his job unless you give him responsibilities other than “check with me first.”

That’s a good point, but I think that’s the trade-off you make when you go for an organic, consensus-based management structure. There are plenty of businesses that set up independent fiefdoms and have them compete, with each fief separated sharply so that you can evaluate them and hold them accountable. But I don’t get the sense that that’s the way Theo wants it at all. Seems to me that he wants an integrated, organic structure that succeeds or fails as a whole. If people get fired it’ll be because they aren’t buying into or contributing to the system, not because their independent decisions are coming up short.

Ricketts, OTOH, seems to want independent accountability, which is why I think he’ll keep business and baseball away from each other. He’ll fire Theo if the team keeps losing and fire Kenney if they stop making money, simple as. From his perspective, how they want to run their division is their business.

[quote name=mb21]Why didn’t he stay in Boston?[/quote]The Cubs are the Moby Dick of baseball. Being the #2 (or #1.5) when they win it all > being the #1 when San Diego does. Add to that that these guys clearly L. O. V. E. working together, that he’s getting more money, and that SD’s owner preferred another guy for GM anyway, and it makes perfect sense to me.

[quote name=fang2415]The Cubs are the Moby Dick of baseball. Being the #2 (or #1.5) when they win it all > being the #1 when San Diego does. Add to that that these guys clearly L. O. V. E. working together, that he’s getting more money, and that SD’s owner preferred another guy for GM anyway, and it makes perfect sense to me.[/quote]Ok, would Theo stick around with a million bucks more per year and Mark Shapiro as his boss? He might, but he probably wouldn’t even though he loves working with the other guys. Most people don’t accept demotions. Even fewer people leave their current job that they’re not at risk of losing any time soon to take a demotion.

That’s all I’m saying. It’s not common for someone in Hoyer’s position to seek a demotion. it doesn’t mean it never happens. I’m sure it does. It’s jut not common.

[quote name=mb21]My entire point is that we know Theo is good at the day to day stuff. I want Theo doing the day to day stuff. That he won’t be doing it is disappointing.[/quote]
I want Theo building an analytics team. I want him writing the player evaluation manual. I want him integrating qualitative scouting info with quantitative stats. I want him researching the benefit of extra medical facilities in the clubhouse, coming up with new ways to evaluate coaches, researching park effects in Wrigley, figuring out how much to budget for Dominican facilities vs coaching in Mesa, etc., etc. All of that is stuff that he’d have a lot less time to do if he was on the phone all day trying to figure out what trades were available and whether free agent X will forego 7.5% of his contract if they give him an extra year of no-trade rights.

If Theo was GM, he’d need an assistant as capable as Hoyer anyway. Because the Cubs are rich and only need to hire the last genius rather than finding the cheap next one, they just bumped the job titles up one and hired the GM supergroup.

[quote name=mb21]Ok, would Theo stick around with a million bucks more per year and Mark Shapiro as his boss? He might, but he probably wouldn’t even though he loves working with the other guys.[/quote]
If Mark Shapiro was the best exec in baseball, maybe. But clearly the bottom two members of today’s love triangle think Theo is the best exec in baseball, so that adds real value for them.

Most people don’t accept demotions. Even fewer people leave their current job that they’re not at risk of losing any time soon to take a demotion.

That’s all I’m saying. It’s not common for someone in Hoyer’s position to seek a demotion. it doesn’t mean it never happens. I’m sure it does. It’s jut not common.

I just don’t think it’s cut-and-dried to call it a demotion. Bob McNamara quit as CEO of Ford to become Secretary of Defense. He was #1 at Ford and #6 in the US government, but I doubt he considered it a step down.

I just don’t think it’s cut-and-dried to call it a demotion. Bob McNamara quit as CEO of Ford to become Secretary of Defense. He was #1 at Ford and #6 in the US government, but I doubt he considered it a step down.

#6 in the US government FAR, FAR, FAR more prestigious than #1 at Ford. Going from #1 at ford to #6 in the government is a huge promotion. You’re #6 int he US government.

[quote name=mb21]I’m done. It’s not worth spending this much time on.[/quote]We should consolidate the last 40 or so posts and sell it for the Kindle.

[quote name=josh]So I haven’t read all the posts. What does everyone think of Jed Hoyer being GM and not Theo?[/quote]Something something something dark side.

I’m not sure if this has been posted yet, but:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/7023/hoyer-excited-for-epstein-reunion

The 37-year-old Hoyer was on the job as San Diego’s GM when new Cubs president of baseball operations Theo Epstein called about the job Hoyer accepted today. Hoyer admitted he surrendered some autonomy to join “The Theo Trio,” along with VP of scouting and player development Jason McLeod.

“It’s probably fair to say that I’m giving up some autonomy,” Hoyer said. “But the big part of the reason I could make that decision is that I’ve worked with Theo so long. I know the kind of responsibility I’ll have. I know how much he trusts me, so would I have entered in this arrangement with someone else? No. But with our relationship and our past together, I’m incredibly confident in the responsibility that I’ll have.”

“The real joy I get out of this job is building a winner and a championship organization,” Hoyer said. “That is so much bigger than a one-person job. Yes I gave up a bit of autonomy. But knowing our relationship, I know I’ll have a significant impact. I am about building teams and not simply making decisions. I’m looking forward to that.”

It’s apparent that Epstein, Hoyer and McLeod really do believe it’s about team work — and they have a pair of world championships to show for it. Epstein pretty much admitted at the news conference that he wouldn’t have accepted his current role with the Cubs if he couldn’t bring in Hoyer and McLeod to hit the ground running this offseason.

He willingly surrendered autonomy for a pay raise and a chance at a winner (eventually). Plus he loves the other guys. That’s what I gathered from these quotes.

[quote name=GW]I’m guessing that’s all true to an extent, but omits the part where Jeff Moorad wanted Josh Byrnes to be the GM in San Diego.[/quote]Yeah, that wasn’t in the article, but pay raise + buddies + Chicago > butthurt

[quote name=melissa]I can understand Hoyer wanting the job if he would rather collaborate with Theo and win in Chicago than continue in his role in SD. He obviously must believe he has a greater chance to work the way he would like and achieve more here. I can understand due to their pre-existing relationship why he would rather work for/with Theo than the SD owner.[/quote]
This. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch that he’d rather work with people he knows, and where he has a good chance of success. I had a job on Brigade staff and had to politic my ass off to go back down to Battalion to deploy to Afghanistan. In theory, it’s less responsibility, but it was a chance to do something I felt I had to do (go to Afghanistan) and to work for my old boss again (he was my commander when I was a platoon leader). Sometimes, it’s not what you’re doing, but where and with whom you’re doing it.

[quote name=Rice Cube]Gold Gloves, in case anyone was wondering (you probably weren’t):

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20111101&content_id=25865014&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb/quoteKemp wins it because he’s the best hitter. I’m surprised Joey Bats didn’t win in the AL for the same reason. Probably because he split time between 2 positions.

Anyway, the only GG awards that seem fishy to me are Markakis, Kemp, and Ethier.

[quote name=Urk]Kudos to you for making that choice Perkins. I feel kind of silly making the comparison back to baseball now, but…yeah. “giving up some autonomy” can refer to very different practical realities depending on who you’re giving that autonomy to, and what the rewards are for doing so. And, he’s not losing any actual professional standing in terms of his formal title, right? And, he’s very unlikley (as I see it) to lose any informal professional standing on the basis of this decision.

that’s how it makes sense to me anyway.[/quote]
Well, I should note that at least part of the decision hinged on the whom I’d have had to work for in garrison (technically boss’s boss). Being in Afghanistan beats working for a guy I’m pretty sure is a psychopath. (dying laughing)

Also, no reason to feel silly, Urk. The Army’s a job, just like baseball is for the guys who play it. Whatever profession someone’s in, there’s definitely something to be said for a comfort zone and working with people you know will have your back and speak the same language.

Dodgers ————> up for sale

[quote name=Urk]Kudos to you for making that choice Perkins. I feel kind of silly making the comparison back to baseball now, but…yeah. “giving up some autonomy” can refer to very different practical realities depending on who you’re giving that autonomy to, and what the rewards are for doing so. And, he’s not losing any actual professional standing in terms of his formal title, right? And, he’s very unlikley (as I see it) to lose any informal professional standing on the basis of this decision.

that’s how it makes sense to me anyway.[/quote]It sounds as though he gave up only a little autonomy. In other words, he reported to the owner in San Diego and now reports to Theo Epstein. He’s still making the decisions. He’s just running some of the bigger deals past Theo and on occasion he may be overruled.

He didn’t get a demotion in the sense he went from GM to assistant GM. He’s doing the same thing other GMs do who report to team presidents. Basically, he took Theo’s job in Boston while Theo took Larry Lucchino’s job.

Also,

[quote name=mb21]I’m done. It’s not worth spending this much time on.[/quote]

(dying laughing)

Hoyer even said he expects it to be very much like the way they did things when he was Theo’s assistant in Boston.

[quote name=GBTS]We should consolidate the last 40 or so posts and sell it for the Kindle.[/quote](dying laughing)

[quote name=Suburban kid 23]Also,

(dying laughing)[/quote]I know. (dying laughing)

Regardless of what Luchino was involved in, that is who Theo reported to in Boston. For a long part of Jim Hendry’s tenure in Chicago, he reported to John McDonough and then later Crane Kenney before finally reporting to Ricketts. So basically, Theo took the job of McDonough/Kenney (when they were involved in baseball ops) and Hoyer took Jim Hendry’s job. It was McDonough and Kenney who gave Hendry the budget, They OK’d specific deals for large money and then McDonough got involved and added a year to Soriano’s contract to get it done (kind of like how the Yankees ownership got involved in the Rafael Soriano talks last year and gave him more money than Cashman wanted). They traveled to minor league facilities, spring training in Mesa and worked at getting new facilities and a Dominican academy. They worked to raise revenue where they could (Theo talked about how he’d have a hand in doing just that).

By the way, what is it with team presidents or owners getting involved with guys named Soriano and giving them more money than they’re worth?

[quote name=melissa]When asked who would deal with agents and other GMs, Hoyer just said both he and Theo would. He said it would probably depend on who had the better relationship with the specific GM or agent. It doesn’t sound like Theo is going to be hands off when it comes to trades or contracts.[/quote]This assumes that other team presidents or owners don’t get involved and we know they do. The bottom line is this: Theo isn’t running the day to day operations and that’s the only damn thing we know for certain he’s good at. The good news is that Hoyer is also very good at the day to day stuff so it doesn’t matter. Hoyer and McLeod are in the same positions they have already been successful at.

[quote name=fang2415]Remember also that Kenney and Hendry didn’t much like each other, whereas these guys hold hand on the bus on the way to work every day. I think “hivemind” is going to be a useful phrase to describe the inner core of the new Cubs FO.

One thing’s for sure though: that hivemind is doing all it can to make sure that Wilken and Flieta feel like they *are* getting demoted. (dying laughing)[/quote]

We are Cub. You will be assimilated. Resistance is infantile.

[quote name=fang2415]Remember also that Kenney and Hendry didn’t much like each other, whereas these guys hold hand on the bus on the way to work every day. I think “hivemind” is going to be a useful phrase to describe the inner core of the new Cubs FO.

One thing’s for sure though: that hivemind is doing all it can to make sure that Wilken and Flieta feel like they *are* getting demoted. (dying laughing)[/quote]Fleita has worked exclusively in the minor leagues while Wilken was the director of scouting amateur talent. This signing is a Director of professional scouting (someone who oversees the scouting of Major League teams).

[quote name=mb21]I wonder what Thoyer’s face looked like during the discussion with Quade when he got to about his 6th retarded nickname.[/quote]

[quote name=Berselius](dying laughing). Fsking phone keyboard[/quote]
You need to read the post about posting from your phone.