Ever
since Jim Hendry was fired last summer, most of us assumed that Mike Quade was fired as well, he just didn’t know it yet. Perhaps Ricketts gave Quade’s pink slip to a spare Molina brother to deliver, so he should get the news sometime this month. A few names have been floated as possible new managers, but it hadn’t crossed my mind that we could see a few changes at the other major coaching positions as well. Here’s a look at the current coaches and their chances.
Manager
Incumbent: Mike Quade
If Cuey wants to stick around, he’s going to need to distance himself from The Hendry Way of doing things pretty quickly and make it clear to Epstein and the new Cubs brass that he’s open to their new way of business. Our main complaints about Cuey last year were his in-game tactical decision making and his dumb nicknames. As MB has repeatedly pointed out, all managers make dumb mistakes, leave pitchers in too long, etc. etc. so it’s tough to judge how bad he really is relative to other managers. One nice thing about the new regime is that they can actually break down his ~200 or so games managing the Cubs and make an informed decision about that (I can’t believe I just wrote that sentence). Two things working in Cuey’s favor are that he does a decent job of dealing with the Cubs media (in particular how he handled the Silva situation last ST, and Z’s first incident. He didn’t do a great job with the second, larger Z incident but that kind of took everyone by surprise. Quade also knows the young players in the Cubs org fairly well having coached them previously. Going into 2011 that was regarded as a plus, especially for the young pitchers who were intimidated by Lou’s treatment of them. On the flip side, there were a lot of rumblings that Quade did not get along well with the veterans in the clubhouse. The Superfriends will take a look at the whole Quade situation but it’s a pretty good bet that he won’t be able to escape the shadow of Jim Hendry and will get the axe.
Candidate: Ryne Sandberg
This is certianly the fan favorite to take the job. Even more importantly, reading the tea leaves last year it was also Tom Ricketts’s preferred choice as well. Like Quade he spent plenty of time in the Cubs org so he knows many of the young players, and his stature should help him with the media. Two things are often mentioned with regards to Sandberg and I don’t think either of them matter very much. One common complaint is that Sandberg is inexperienced, as he’s never managed or so much as coached on the big league level. I don’t think this is that big of a deal. If Bob Brenly can win a World Series, that tells you how much experience really matters (laughing). One common thing mentioned in Sandberg’s favor is that the Red Sox tried to hire him for their AAA manager job after he lost out on the Cubs job. That doesn’t tell me much either – it was just a minor league gig. If they wanted him to come in as a bench coach or something I think that would have said more. The only thing that could hold Sandberg back is how willing he is to work with the new front office. It remains to see how much of his whole Let’s Play The Game The Right Way HOF speech was fluff and how much of it set forth his managing agenda.
Candidate: Terry Francona
In the aftermath of the Francona resignation and Epstein coming to Chicago there was a lot of wishcasting that Theo’s successful manager could come along too. Francona’s firing played a role in Epstein choosing to leave the Red Sox, though that probably has more to do with management than Francona himself. If anything the example of Francona could be a good one for Quade. Francona was regarded as a relatively poor manager before coming to Boston, and became a much better one while learning on the job. I think Francona stays out of the dugout for the year while looking for the cure to seventeen stab wounds in the back, courtesy of the Boston front office. Hopefully he lands a color gig somewhere, as he was great replacing McCarver this postseason.
Candidate: Bud Black
Someone (Phil Rogers?) was floating this idea around a few days ago, but I don’t think it was anything more than wishcasting. As far as I know, no source from the front office has said anything about Black.
Pitching coach
Incumbent: Mark Riggins
It says a lot about Riggins that I keep typing his name as John Riggins. Must be a result of growing up in the DC area. He’s a pretty forgettable guy, and Ricketts has shown with the hiring of Jaramillo that he doesn’t have a problem paying for big name coaches. If Quade goes, so does Riggins.
Candidate: Dave Duncan
Now that La Russa is retired I was thinking that Dave Duncan might be a target for the Cubs until Rice Cube pointed out that his family situation should keep him in St. Louis. I wouldn’t be surprised if he retires to spend more time with his wife. I wish them all the best.
Candidate: Greg Maddux
Since retiring Maddux has hung around as a Special Assistant to the GM and Executive Vice President of Hitting the Golf Courses. I’ve always had the vibe that the pitching coach job is there if he ever wants it, and I’m sure they’ve already offered it to him once or twice. I don’t know if hiring Sandberg would make any difference for him, as I never got the vibe that the two of them were friends though anyone who followed the team back then is welcome to correct me. If Maddux does join the team he would be filling the dual roles of pitching coach and Kevin Millar Memorial President of Fart Jokes.
Candidate: Mike Maddux
His name was floating around a few days ago, possibly for the full managerial position, but he’s always been a pitching coach. Supposedly he’s on Boston’s list in their managerial search, along with Dale Sveum (dying laughing). It would be quite entertaining if he became the manager and Greg was the pitching coach. He’s currently employed by the Rangers, though I can’t find any info about how long his contract runs. Maybe the Cubs can hire him as President of Pitching Operations to try to convince the Rangers that it’s a promotion.
Hitting coach
Incumbent: Rudy Jaramillo
This front has been much more quiet – it only crossed my mind because I was thinking about pitching coaches. But I wonder if his job could be in danger. He was a high profile signing in the pre-2010 offseason as the Ricketts family was taking over the team, and since then the team has continued to hack, hack, hack. Given the new front office directive to encourage players to work more counts, it’s possible he may be let go. He is on the third year of a 3/2.4 deal. I don’t know enough about hitting coaches to know who might replace him. Given his salary and stature he’s definitely the most likely member of the staff to stick around, but I would be surprised if the Cubs don’t go another way when his contract is up. Zonk will also be happy to see him go, as he always has a horrible time pronouncing his name (laughing).
As far as the other coaches go (bench, bullpen, etc), those guys are pretty much just picked by whoever the manager is so they’ll all likely leave with Quade.
[quote name=fang2415]Srs, I assume there’s no way to see those games on the web? That would be some cool shit to see.[/quote]
If anyone would know, it would be Harry Pavlidis. He seems to watch 3-4 games a day during the offseason.
[quote name=Berselius]If anyone would know, it would be Harry Pavlidis. He seems to watch 3-4 games a day during the offseason.[/quote]I always assumed he received those telepathically.
Rudy Har….Har…..Harmillio has been working with the front office to try to get….folks, he’s a good coach, I’m saying.
President of Pitching Operations (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
Hey Chicago Cubs kids, I did not watch much of the WS but I followed the threads here. There seemed to be much ridicule of Ron Washington’s bullpen management.
I just wanted to point out that the one game I did manage to watch (game 7), Rick Sutcliffe on the MLB International broadcast proclaimed that Mike Maddux ran the bullpen (and pitching changes) in Texas pretty much single-handedly, without much or any interference from Washington.
He may have been full of shit, but I just point this out since Maddux has been cited as a potential Cub coach/manager…
By the way, that’s the saddest picture of Mike Quade I’ve ever seen.
If Quade is let go, I would guess that Theo and Hoyer will allow the new manager to pick two of the three main coaching jobs (bench, pitching and catching). It’s also possible Thoyer looks at how awful the Cubs have been at running the bases so getting someone like Dave Roberts to coach 1st base wouldn’t be too surprising. I have no idea what Roberts is doing, but if it’s the same thing, just make him the Executive Chairman of 1st Base.
What do we think the odds are that Quade is gone? I’d probably put them at 90%. Quade did work in the A’s organization for a year or two (like Francona before his gig in Boston) so I could see that being a point in his favor.
[quote name=GBTS]By the way, that’s the saddest picture of Mike Quade I’ve ever seen.[/quote]Ryan Dempster just told him to go fuck himself.
[quote name=Suburban kid 23]Hey Chicago Cubs kids, I did not watch much of the WS but I followed the threads here. There seemed to be much ridicule of Ron Washington’s bullpen management.
I just wanted to point out that the one game I did manage to watch (game 7), Rick Sutcliffe on the MLB International broadcast proclaimed that Mike Maddux ran the bullpen (and pitching changes) in Texas pretty much single-handedly, without much or any interference from Washington.
He may have been full of shit, but I just point this out since Maddux has been cited as a potential Cub coach/manager…[/quote]
He did do a great job with Milwaukee’s staff, FWIW
[quote name=mb21]Thoyer [/quote]
(dying laughing)
Was the ridicule here more so for bullpen management or not using pinch hitters and letting relievers hit?
(dying laughing)
I remember a game that Sandberg had off and Maddux was in the dugout. I remember Steve Stone was trying to figure out what was going between the two because they were sitting at opposite ends of the dugout laughing and pointing at one another. Both were known for pulling pranks so it wouldn’t surprise me if the two were friends.
Turns out Dave Roberts was Special Assistant to the GM (Hoyer) in 2010 and then was hired as the 1st base coach after the 2010 season. I know Roberts was praising Thoyer recently. Not sure what his contract status is.
[quote name=WaLi]Was the ridicule here more so for bullpen management or not using pinch hitters and letting relievers hit?[/quote]This.
That may be true, but I think in order to know how bad someone is at that we have to know how bad the rest of them are. We complain about every manager or coach when it comes to managing the bullpen. To be honest, I completely dismiss the complaints anymore. Mike Quade mismanaged the bullpen? I can’t think of any who didn’t.
[quote name=mb21]If Quade is let go, I would guess that Theo and Hoyer will allow the new manager to pick two of the three main coaching jobs (bench, pitching and catching). It’s also possible Thoyer looks at how awful the Cubs have been at running the bases so getting someone like Dave Roberts to coach 1st base wouldn’t be too surprising. I have no idea what Roberts is doing, but if it’s the same thing, just make him the Executive Chairman of 1st Base.
What do we think the odds are that Quade is gone? I’d probably put them at 90%. Quade did work in the A’s organization for a year or two (like Francona before his gig in Boston) so I could see that being a point in his favor.[/quote]It’s really hard to say. Theo doesn’t seem reactionary, though there are people on both sides who want him to be. Quade wasn’t the worst manager I’ve ever seen. He seemed to at least know when to bunt and when to pinch hit etc. Of course, I thought Texas still had a chance in game 7, so what do I know?
[quote name=mb21]
What do we think the odds are that Quade is gone? I’d probably put them at 90%. Quade did work in the A’s organization for a year or two (like Francona before his gig in Boston) so I could see that being a point in his favor.[/quote]
That’s a good point, though I don’t think I’ve ever seen any specifics or quotes etc. from Cuey regarding his experiences in the A’s org.
FWIW, 19 relief pitchers batted in 2011 for the Cubs. I don’t know how that compares to other teams.
Someone brought up Sizemore in the last thread and I think he might be a good fit for the Cubs only because they can spell him with Marlon Byrd, who is looking more and more like a 4th OF.
Derek Lowe ————-> CLE
[quote name=Berselius]That’s a good point, though I don’t think I’ve ever seen any specifics or quotes etc. from Cuey regarding his experiences in the A’s org.[/quote]I remember some right after he was named the 3rd base coach.
The Brewers let their relievers bat 5 times. I’d probably not compare the two since the Brewers were in contention and the Cubs were not.
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Someone brought up Sizemore in the last thread and I think he might be a good fit for the Cubs only because they can spell him with Marlon Byrd, who is looking more and more like a 4th OF.[/quote]I could see several teams willing to take a chance on his injuries if he could produce half what he did 3-4 years ago, however realistic they determine that to be.
The 2010 Nationals were in a similar situation to the Cubs all year. They let their relievers bat a lot more than the Cubs did this past season.
Thed Hoystein or Jeo Epyer
Speaking of wishcasting, the day after Theo was announced I read somewhere (no idea where) that a dream scenario for “Cub Fans” would be Ryno at the helm, G. Maddux as pitching coach and Grace as hitting coach. Does Grace have any business being on a bench? Im not too sure if he has ever even done that, or if it would even be a remotely good idea other than keeping with the theme of “Getting the Band Back Together.”
[quote name=josh]I could see several teams willing to take a chance on his injuries if he could produce half what he did 3-4 years ago, however realistic they determine that to be.[/quote]
If we’re talking broken-down CFs, I’d rather the Cubs sign Carlos Beltran.
[quote name=Snyds01]Speaking of wishcasting, the day after Theo was announced I read somewhere (no idea where) that a dream scenario for “Cub Fans” would be Ryno at the helm, G. Maddux as pitching coach and Grace as hitting coach. Does Grace have any business being on a bench? Im not too sure if he has ever even done that, or if it would even be a remotely good idea other than keeping with the theme of “Getting the Band Back Together.”[/quote]Graces strikes me as an anti-coach.
[quote name=Snyds01]Speaking of wishcasting, the day after Theo was announced I read somewhere (no idea where) that a dream scenario for “Cub Fans” would be Ryno at the helm, G. Maddux as pitching coach and Grace as hitting coach. Does Grace have any business being on a bench? Im not too sure if he has ever even done that, or if it would even be a remotely good idea other than keeping with the theme of “Getting the Band Back Together.”[/quote]
I don’t think Grace has any business in the same dugout as Sandberg (dying laughing)
[quote name=Berselius]If we’re talking broken-down CFs, I’d rather the Cubs sign Carlos Beltran.[/quote]True enough. The Cubs don’t really have a RF worth talking about at the moment. Platoon Beltran/Byrd and call up Jackson. Does it makes sense to platoon a switch hitter?
[quote name=josh]I could see several teams willing to take a chance on his injuries if he could produce half what he did 3-4 years ago, however realistic they determine that to be.[/quote]
I’d rather see somebody cheaper, Crisp or DeJesus. Those guys might take one year deals, Sizemore might be holding out for multiple years.
[quote name=josh]True enough. The Cubs don’t really have a RF worth talking about at the moment. Platoon Beltran/Byrd and call up Jackson. Does it makes sense to platoon a switch hitter?[/quote]
Put him at 1b, if they strike out on Fielder (or don’t pursue him).
[quote name=Berselius]Put him at 1b, if they strike out on Fielder (or don’t pursue him).[/quote]Nice.
[quote name=8volumesthick]I’d rather see somebody cheaper, Crisp or DeJesus. Those guys might take one year deals, Sizemore might be holding out for multiple years.[/quote]MLBTR thinks Crisp will seek a multiyear deal.
I wouldn’t say Marlon Byrd is a 4th outfielder. He was worth 1.7 rWAR and 2.0 fWAR. Considering he missed a month after being hit in the face, that’s slightly better than league average production. Over the last 2 seasons he’s been worth 4.2 rWAR and 6.4 fWAR. He’s a solid fielder (maybe even above average), an above average baserunner, and close to average at the plate. The difference between 2010 and 2011 is that he flat out sucked against lefties this past year. That’s not going to continue.
Crisp is basically the only FA that could actually play center. He’s like Rami, not great, but the best available.
[quote name=Berselius]I don’t think Grace has any business in the same dugout as Sandberg (dying laughing)[/quote]Yeah, that’s just not going to happen. Better chance I’m the hitting coach.
I could be wrong about what I perceived as beaucoup bitching about TEX bullpen usage, but I think leaving a RP in to hit still falls under that category.
I wasn’t judging Mike Maddux, as I don’t think 7 game sample sizes are relevant, and I agree that managers and pitching coaches all make dumbass decisions so it’s all relative.
I still don’t understand how Mike Maddux is now a manager candidate. Has his potential ascension to President of Dugout Operations for some team been expected for awhile?
I can’t remember who it was that mentioned Beltran at 1st, but I really like that idea.
[quote name=Suburban kid 23]I could be wrong about what I perceived as beaucoup bitching about TEX bullpen usage, but I think leaving a RP in to hit still falls under that category.
I wasn’t judging Mike Maddux, as I don’t think 7 game sample sizes are relevant, and I agree that managers and pitching coaches all make dumbass decisions so it’s all relative.
I still don’t understand how Mike Maddux is now a manager candidate. Has his potential ascension to President of Dugout Operations for some team been expected for awhile?[/quote]I don’t think he’s a legitimate managerial candidate. My guess is that Sutcliffe is full of shit. Washington’s job depends on doing as well as he possibly can. I don’t see him putting important decisions that he can easily made in the hands of someone else.
[quote name=mb21]I can’t remember who it was that mentioned Beltran at 1st, but I really like that idea.[/quote]He’s a righty in the field, but so was Grace…
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, that’s just not going to happen. Better chance I’m the hitting coach.[/quote]Did you have the most hits of the 1990s? Didn’t think so.
I stick with Byrd. He’s worth more than he’s being paid so that’s exactly the kind of player a team like the Cubs need right now. If Jackson is ready, move Byrd to LF or RF.
[quote name=josh]He’s a righty in the field, but so was Grace…[/quote]So was D Lee, for that matter.
[quote name=mb21]The 2010 Nationals were in a similar situation to the Cubs all year. They let their relievers bat a lot more than the Cubs did this past season.[/quote]
(dying laughing) I was talking about Washington letting his relievers hit in the WS (in re: to him being criticized for use of relievers/Maddux, etc.. Guess I should have used a quote in my reply)
[quote name=GBTS]Did you have the most hits of the 1990s? Didn’t think so.[/quote]No, but I banged the most chicks in the 90s. Grace ain’t got shit on me. (dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21]I stick with Byrd. He’s worth more than he’s being paid so that’s exactly the kind of player a team like the Cubs need right now. If Jackson is ready, move Byrd to LF or RF.[/quote]Seems to me that 1B and RF are bigger holes than Center.
[quote name=Suburban kid 23]
I still don’t understand how Mike Maddux is now a manager candidate. Has his potential ascension to President of Dugout Operations for some team been expected for awhile?[/quote]
I don’t really get it either, but supposedly the Red Sox are interviewing him. They’re also interviewing Dale Sveum, who used to be their 3b coach and has the same rep as Wendell Kim does around here (dying laughing).
[quote name=josh]So was D Lee, for that matter.[/quote]Does handedness really matter at 1B? I guess it might help a guy turn a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 double play…
The only way Mark Grace should be employed by the Cubs to teach lessons on hitting is bringing him to spring training and showing him off as an example of how not to weight train.
[quote name=WaLi](dying laughing) I was talking about Washington letting his relievers hit in the WS (in re: to him being criticized for use of relievers/Maddux, etc.. Guess I should have used a quote in my reply)[/quote]Letting the reliever hit in the WS was beyond stupid. It’s more than enough reason to fire someone.
[quote name=josh]Seems to me that 1B and RF and 2b and 3b are bigger holes than Center.[/quote]
.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Does handedness really matter at 1B? I guess it might help a guy turn a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 double play…[/quote]
That doesn’t matter that much. Jeff Bagwell played 1b for several years without being able to so much as throw as far as the pitcher’s mound.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Does handedness really matter at 1B? I guess it might help a guy turn a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 double play…[/quote]I think if you take two equally talented players and one is lefty and the other righty, you’re better off going with the lefty. Maybe it’s worth a run, but you don’t sign someone to play 1st just because he’s a lefty.
[quote name=Rice Cube]Does handedness really matter at 1B? I guess it might help a guy turn a 3-6-3 or 3-6-1 double play…[/quote]Traditionally, you prefer a lefty at 1B because the plays will mostly be to his right. It’s probably not that big of a deal, though, as Lee demonstrated.
[quote name=josh]It’s probably not that big of a deal, though, as Lee demonstrated.[/quote]But Bob Brenly sez Carlos Pena saved 118 Starlin Castro errors this season, and he was lefty.
Fielder is a lefty and he can’t field worth a shit. It doesn’t matter, just one of those things I always heard I guess.
The more interesting question to me is this: how good would a left-handed fielder have to be to be an improvement over Aramis Ramirez at 3rd base? If you had a left-handed Scott Rolen playing LF, could you move him to 3rd base and be better off than Ramirez defensively?
The other not so interesting question is this: could James Russell be better than Koyie Hill at the catcher’s position? I’m going with maybe.
[quote name=GBTS]But Bob Brenly sez Carlos Pena saved 118 Starlin Castro errors this season, and he was lefty.[/quote]Proof positive that it doesn’t mean shit.
I don’t see why Mike Maddux wouldn’t be qualified to manage. Mike Quade was deemed qualified. Didn’t the White Sox just hire Robin Ventura away from a high school?
I just find it curious how this stuff works. Do you “let it be known” that you want to manage someday, and then spend a few years working on your broader leadership skills while still working away as a pitching coach or minor league coach?
So I have had
twomultiple Cardinalfanssources mention Cardinals and Sandberg. Are they just doing that to rile me up or is there really talk about Cards/Sandberg?Pujols is probably the best defensive 1B of the past few years and he’s a righty. Being left-handed confers such a small advantage, I suspect it’s almost irrelevant.
[quote name=Suburban kid 23]I don’t see why Mike Maddux wouldn’t be qualified to manage. Mike Quade was deemed qualified. Didn’t the White Sox just hire Robin Ventura away from a high school?
I just find it curious how this stuff works. Do you “let it be known” that you want to manage someday, and then spend a few years working on your broader leadership skills while still working away as a pitching coach or minor league coach?[/quote]I’m sure Maddux is as qualified as anyone else to manager. I just think you get the most value from him as a pitching coach.
Z———–> Pepsi commercial in Venezuela with Ozzie and Abreu
No dinner.
[quote name=mb21]I stick with Byrd. He’s worth more than he’s being paid so that’s exactly the kind of player a team like the Cubs need right now. If Jackson is ready, move Byrd to LF or RF.[/quote]I think he’s traded for an almost ready arm…like Mike Minor or something. Just some innings eater that is a bit over-valued at this point.
Although from a trade stand-point it’s a completely new ballgame with a new GM. I feel like an abused person who is finally out of the situation and is in therapy. I know I should feel safe but I don’t yet.
[quote name=mb21]The more interesting question to me is this: how good would a left-handed fielder have to be to be an improvement over Aramis Ramirez at 3rd base? If you had a left-handed Scott Rolen playing LF, could you move him to 3rd base and be better off than Ramirez defensively?
The other not so interesting question is this: could James Russell be better than Koyie Hill at the catcher’s position? I’m going with maybe.[/quote]I’d love to see a solid guy at every position regardless of handedness, but in the infield and at catcher, traditionally they’ve always used righties except at first base so it’d be tough to find a MLB-caliber lefty defender at those positions.
[quote name=mb21]The more interesting question to me is this: how good would a left-handed fielder have to be to be an improvement over Aramis Ramirez at 3rd base? If you had a left-handed Scott Rolen playing LF, could you move him to 3rd base and be better off than Ramirez defensively?
The other not so interesting question is this: could James Russell be better than Koyie Hill at the catcher’s position? I’m going with maybe.[/quote]I’d put money on Marmol outcatching Hill, Maybe Koyie should take up relief pitching. His specialty pitch would be the three-finger splitter, and the three finger fastball, and the three finger knuckler, etc.
[quote name=WaLi]So I have had
twomultiple Cardinalfanssources mention Cardinals and Sandberg. Are they just doing that to rile me up or is there really talk about Cards/Sandberg?[/quote]Haven’t heard anything about StL, but he is on Boston’s list.
[quote name=josh]He’s a righty in the field, but so was Grace…[/quote]Grace was a lefty…
[quote name=ACT]Pujols is probably the best defensive 1B of the past few years and he’s a righty. Being left-handed confers such a small advantage, I suspect it’s almost irrelevant.[/quote]
Teix is up there too. Isn’t he LH?
Tex throws with his right hand.
[quote name=josh]I’d put money on Marmol outcatching Hill, Maybe Koyie should take up relief pitching. His specialty pitch would be the three-finger splitter, and the three finger fastball, and the three finger knuckler, etc.[/quote]
Marmol at least has some experience as catcher (dying laughing). Wasn’t he the emergency catcher at some point?
Randy Wells was also a catcher, but hit offensive numbers were atrocious.
[quote name=Rice Cube]I’d love to see a solid guy at every position regardless of handedness, but in the infield and at catcher, traditionally they’ve always used righties except at first base so it’d be tough to find a MLB-caliber lefty defender at those positions.[/quote]Yeah, you’re definitely going to find a better right handed fielding 3rd baseman than a left-handed one for obvious reasons. I was just wondering how good the lefty would have to be to be as good or better than some poor fielder like Ramirez. How good would the fielder have to be to make up for the obvious situations in which he’d be completely fucking screwed? I don’t know the answer. Maybe it’s not even possible.
[quote name=Berselius]Marmol at least has some experience as catcher (dying laughing). Wasn’t he the emergency catcher at some point?[/quote]He’d probably keep throwing the ball into center field and bounce throwbacks into the mound like that catcher from Major League 2.
Yeah, somehow I don’t think Theo’s priority is to have a coaching staff that includes Sandberg, Maddux, Grace, DeJesus, and Dernier.
[quote name=josh]Fielder is a lefty and he can’t field worth a shit. It doesn’t matter, just one of those things I always heard I guess.[/quote]And Fielder is a righty (dying laughing)
[quote name=Berselius]Marmol at least has some experience as catcher (dying laughing). Wasn’t he the emergency catcher at some point?[/quote](dying laughing) you guys are making my question less fun. Let me rephrase it: how good a hitter would a lefty catcher have to be in order to be more valuable than Koyie Hill?
I think there were left handed catchers as recently as the 1960s.
[quote name=Suburban kid 23]Yeah, somehow I don’t think Theo’s priority is to have a coaching staff that includes Sandberg, Maddux, Grace, DeJesus, and Dernier.[/quote]Agreed. I could see Sandberg and maybe Maddux, but I think the band getting back together stops there.
[quote name=Suburban kid 23]I think there were left handed catchers as recently as the 1960s.[/quote](dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21](dying laughing) you guys are making my question less fun. Let me rephrase it: how good a hitter would a lefty catcher have to be in order to be more valuable than Koyie Hill?[/quote]If we’re ignoring fielding, then I’d say put Tony Campana behind the plate. He’d be great at chasing after wild pitches (dying laughing)
[quote name=Rice Cube]If we’re ignoring fielding, then I’d say put Tony Campana behind the plate. He’d be great at chasing after wild pitches (dying laughing)[/quote]On stolen base attempts he should run and tag the guy instead of throwing.
Actually, he should do that from center field too.
[quote name=srbutch5]Grace was a lefty…[/quote]Oh for two. Doesn’t Prince hit left handed? In my mind, he’s standing on the left side of the plate from the pitcher’s perspective.
Have we confirmed that Ryno is alive, by the way? What are the odds we never see him again?
[quote name=josh]Oh for two. Doesn’t Prince hit left handed? In my mind, he’s standing on the left side of the plate from the pitcher’s perspective.[/quote]He throws righty. He knows something you do not know.
[quote name=mb21](dying laughing) you guys are making my question less fun. Let me rephrase it: how good a hitter would a lefty catcher have to be in order to be more valuable than Koyie Hill?[/quote]Over .200?
According to The Encyclopedia of Baseball Catchers (dying laughing)
[quote name=Rice Cube]He throws righty. He knows something you do not know.[/quote]Learn to bat left-handed? Actually, when I was a kid, I did teach myself to bat left handed. Unfortunately, I was just as horrible from the left side as from the right.
[quote name=srbutch5]And Fielder is a righty (dying laughing)[/quote]My fact checker took the day off. I’ll go ahead and blame sleep deprivation. You still get to claim that with a 1-year old right? I hope so, because that’s my one good excuse.
[quote name=josh]My fact checker took the day off. I’ll go ahead and blame sleep deprivation. You still get to claim that with a 1-year old right? I hope so, because that’s my one good excuse.[/quote]
Your fact-checker is 1 year old?
[quote name=Berselius]Your fact-checker is 1 year old?[/quote]Your child works for the Sun-Times?
[quote name=GBTS]Your child works for the Sun-Times?[/quote]ZING
so if the reports are true and Thoyer believe the Cubs can compete by 2013 why wouldn’t they try to get Fielder or Pujols? I’m not necessarily advocating for either but if it’s just one-year away then signing one does make some sense but really depends on contract length. I really doubt the Cubs give either player an offer of longer than 6 years.
[quote name=josh]Learn to bat left-handed? Actually, when I was a kid, I did teach myself to bat left handed. Unfortunately, I was just as horrible from the left side as from the right.[/quote]
I just thought, maybe that is why Koyie Hill considers himself a switch hitter. He can’t really hit period, so what’s the difference (dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21]No, but I banged the most Pizza Hut MILFs in the 90s. Grace ain’t got shit on me. (dying laughing)[/quote].
[quote name=Berselius]Your fact-checker is 1 year old?[/quote]It works for George Will.
[quote name=Berselius]Your fact-checker is 1 year old?[/quote]My sequence of sentences was mostly unrelated. So, yes, apparently.
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/10/31/play-win-game/?sct=hp_wr_a5&eref=sihp
I think Pos would be on board with my 6-8-10 plan. Yes We Can!
I bet they at least explore trading Byrd, although I guess it also depends on if they can move Soriano. I can imagine Byrd adding value in RF or LF because of defense. I think that’s the area where the new FO thinks they can make the biggest improvement for the buck, is on defense. I tend to agree (dying laughing).
Also it was me who suggested Beltran for 1B. And I want all the credit dammit. (dying laughing)
[quote name=work sucks]I bet they at least explore trading Byrd, although I guess it also depends on if they can move Soriano. I can imagine Byrd adding value in RF or LF because of defense. I think that’s the area where the new FO thinks they can make the biggest improvement for the buck, is on defense. I tend to agree (dying laughing).
Also it was me who suggested Beltran for 1B. And I want all the credit dammit. (dying laughing)[/quote]work sucks = Crane Kenney. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]work sucks = Crane Kenney. (dying laughing)[/quote]
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
got me. I also have a greek orthodox priest on my speed dial if you need a miracle or a quasi greek orthodox priest outfit for halloween
[quote name=GBTS]Your child works for the Sun-Times?[/quote]You’re assuming the Sun-Times employs fact-checkers. Or knows that there are such things as facts.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]You’re assuming the Sun-Times employs fact-checkers. Or knows that there are such things as facts.[/quote]They could learn a lot from the Tribune.
“Hey Sal, Sullivan wants to run a story about a guy in a purple shirt who thinks he saw Theo at Starbucks.”
“What do you want me to do?”
“Do you know if guys in purple shirts sometimes go to Starbucks?”
“Yeah, sometimes.”
“Cool, thanks. Story checks out.”
Elias rankings came out. Apparently this Albert Pujols fella is a Type A. He’s also right handed.
[quote name=GBTS]They could learn a lot from the Tribune.
“Hey Sal, Sullivan wants to run a story about a guy in a purple shirt who thinks he saw Theo at Starbucks.”
“What do you want me to do?”
“Do you know if guys in purple shirts sometimes go to Starbucks?”
“Yeah, sometimes.”
“Cool, thanks. Story checks out.”[/quote]
At least Baltimore only had one Scott Templeton. Chicago has about 7.
[quote name=josh]Elias rankings came out. Apparently this Albert Pujols fella is a Type A. He’s also right handed.[/quote]All you do is come here to argue. You’ve been warned.
The Cubs haven’t mentioned a thing about firing Quade or any of the rest of the coaching staff, have they? This is all just rumor, and this whole discussion needs to stop. Honestly, do any of you have a source?
[quote name=AndCounting]The Cubs haven’t mentioned a thing about firing Quade or any of the rest of the coaching staff, have they? This is all just rumor, and this whole discussion needs to stop. Honestly, do any of you have a source?[/quote]I’m wearing a purple shirt right now!
[quote name=josh]I’m wearing a purple shirt right now![/quote]Nice snark.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]All you do is come here to argue. You’ve been warned.[/quote]I’m sorry. I apologize to everyone here. It was a one time occurrence. I let emotions get the better of me. You all know how I feel about that kind of language. I don’t know what happened.
I haven’t been to BCB since next June. Is Al still banning people?
[quote name=josh]He’s a righty in the field, but so was Grace…[/quote]
False.
[quote name=mambochicken]False.[/quote]WE COVERED THIS!
[quote name=josh]WE COVERED THIS![/quote]
Serves me right for not reading every word. No dinner for me tonight.
[quote name=ACT]
[/quote]
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
[quote name=mambochicken]Serves me right for not reading every word. No dinner for me tonight.[/quote]I’m the worst.
[quote name=ACT]
[/quote]
Cheap ass.
[quote name=WaLi]Cheap ass.[/quote]At least Pi + 1 would have been 15%.
Superfriends wisely decline F7 option, but intend to re-sign at (hopefully much) lower salary…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-to-decline-samardzija-option-resign-at-lower-salary-20111031,0,534385.story
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/rick-jones-tragic-experiment-gone-awry/
(dying laughing)
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]Superfriends wisely decline F7 option, but intend to re-sign at (hopefully much) lower salary…
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-cubs-to-decline-samardzija-option-resign-at-lower-salary-20111031,0,534385.story/quoteThat contract has to be one of most baffling things the Cubs did B.E.
More on F7, via Miles on FB:
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/rick-jones-tragic-experiment-gone-awry/
(dying laughing)[/quote]I don’t get it
[quote name=WaLi]I don’t get it[/quote]I’m in this boat as well.
[quote name=WaLi]I don’t get it[/quote]I don’t either. The extreme weirdness had me (dying laughing)
One thing I don’t understand: why would Samardzija agree to a club option that was to go into effect a year before he was arbitration eligible? Why would the team ever exercise that option if they still had him under club control and could just work out a lesser deal? I mean . . . I guess it’s not a big deal, I’m just trying and failing to imagine a scenario in which that works out to the player’s advantage.
[quote name=WaLi]I don’t get it[/quote]Since it’s a notgraphs piece, I assume you have to be familiar with some little known Neutral Milk Hotel or Bon Iver song to understand.
[quote name=AndCounting]One thing I don’t understand: why would Samardzija agree to a club option that was to go into effect a year before he was arbitration eligible? Why would the team ever exercise that option if they still had him under club control and could just work out a lesser deal? I mean . . . I guess it’s not a big deal, I’m just trying and failing to imagine a scenario in which that works out to the player’s advantage.[/quote]F7 might have given in on that in exchange for more $ up front or something else to his benefit
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]F7 might have given in on that in exchange for more $ up front or something else to his benefit[/quote]Such as $2.5 million signing bonus and 5 years/ $10 mil for almost no production (dying laughing)
[quote name=WaLi]I don’t get it[/quote]
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]I don’t either. The extreme weirdness had me (dying laughing)[/quote]I did enjoy the line where the Mariners fans clapped politely b/c they didn’t understand baseball yet.
In case anyone wondered how AC spends most Saturdays:
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]In case anyone wondered how AC spends most
Saturdays:(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
[quote name=AndCounting]Fixed.
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing)
TLR, Triple-A infielder (1971):
I wish I could find a pic of him in uniform from his brief stint with the Cubs.
And by “brief” I mean he came in as a pinch-runner once.
[quote name=ACT]And by “brief” I mean a picture of him in his underwear.[/quote].
[quote name=AndCounting]One thing I don’t understand: why would Samardzija agree to a club option that was to go into effect a year before he was arbitration eligible? Why would the team ever exercise that option if they still had him under club control and could just work out a lesser deal? I mean . . . I guess it’s not a big deal, I’m just trying and failing to imagine a scenario in which that works out to the player’s advantage.[/quote]Too lazy to see if anybody has answered this already, but it’s about service time. Samardzija signed for 5 years. There was no way on earth he could be eligible for free agency before that contract ended as you need 6 years of service time to be eligible for free agency. On top of that, some of those 5 years were spent in the minor leagues.
Options come at a price. A team option will cost the team a bit more in the previous years whereas a player option will cost the player a bit. So the club option that was agreed to essentially paid Samardzija a bit more money in the preceding years. The Cubs could have turned it around and made it a player option and the years before this would have cost less, but as we can see now, the years going forward would have cost more.
I disagree with MO about this being a bad deal for the Cubs. Any time you draft and sign a player there is great risk. Signing a guy who had a 98 mph fastball to a 5-year contract for only $10 million is nothing. More than likely the prospect fails, but on the off chance he succeeds you’ve got yourself one hell of a deal. The reason we so liked this last draft is the same reason we liked that pick. Drafting players and signing them above slot is risky. Considering the low cost, it’s well worth the risk.
I know the Cubs need pitching, but I wouldn’t offer Samardzija a contract for next season. I guess $2.4 million isn’t that big of a deal, but I wouldn’t spend that money on him. The team just saved $2 million. I’d prefer it if they didn’t immediately waste it.
[quote name=mb21]Too lazy to see if anybody has answered this already, but it’s about service time. Samardzija signed for 5 years. There was no way on earth he could be eligible for free agency before that contract ended as you need 6 years of service time to be eligible for free agency. On top of that, some of those 5 years were spent in the minor leagues.
Options come at a price. A team option will cost the team a bit more in the previous years whereas a player option will cost the player a bit. So the club option that was agreed to essentially paid Samardzija a bit more money in the preceding years. The Cubs could have turned it around and made it a player option and the years before this would have cost less, but as we can see now, the years going forward would have cost more.
I disagree with MO about this being a bad deal for the Cubs. Any time you draft and sign a player there is great risk. Signing a guy who had a 98 mph fastball to a 5-year contract for only $10 million is nothing. More than likely the prospect fails, but on the off chance he succeeds you’ve got yourself one hell of a deal. The reason we so liked this last draft is the same reason we liked that pick. Drafting players and signing them above slot is risky. Considering the low cost, it’s well worth the risk.[/quote]I didn’t say it was a bad deal. I said it was a baffling deal. I get the upside, but the Cubs were really the only team beating down F7′s door (largely because of Hendry’s ND connections) to play baseball, and they were kind of bidding against themselves and still managed to sign him to a strange deal. Even if it had worked out, it still be an odd deal considering the market for F7 going into the draft. Not a bad deal, per se, at the time, just strange.
[quote name=mb21]I know the Cubs need pitching, but I wouldn’t offer Samardzija a contract for next season. I guess $2.4 million isn’t that big of a deal, but I wouldn’t spend that money on him. The team just saved $2 million. I’d prefer it if they didn’t immediately waste it.[/quote]Yeah. Miles says the Cubs can cut his salary up to 20%, but that means you’re still paying him around $1.6 mil. That’s a lot for a middle reliever with his numbers.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah. Miles says the Cubs can cut his salary up to 20%, but that means you’re still paying him around $1.6 mil. That’s a lot for a middle reliever with his numbers.[/quote]
Unless they decide to try him as closer (shakes in terror as he types)
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah. Miles says the Cubs can cut his salary up to 20%, but that means you’re still paying him around $1.6 mil. That’s a lot for a middle reliever with his numbers.[/quote]
Cots had his salary at 3.3 in ’11 meaning he would make 2.64 mil in 2012 at minimum if true.
[quote name=ACT]And by “brief” I mean he came in as a pinch-runner for Ron Santo once and scored the winning run in extra innings on Opening Day.[/quote].
[quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]Unless they decide to try him as closer (shakes in terror as he types)[/quote]Well, his career BB/9 is still (slightly) lower than Marmol’s. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Snyds01]Cots had his salary at 3.3 in ’11 meaning he would make 2.64 mil in 2012 at minimum if true.[/quote]Ah. For some reason I though his option was for $2 mil. $2.64 mil? Not a chance in hell I pay him that money.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I didn’t say it was a bad deal. I said it was a baffling deal. I get the upside, but the Cubs were really the only team beating down F7′s door (largely because of Hendry’s ND connections) to play baseball, and they were kind of bidding against themselves and still managed to sign him to a strange deal. Even if it had worked out, it still be an odd deal considering the market for F7 going into the draft. Not a bad deal, per se, at the time, just strange.[/quote]Teams stayed away from Samardzija BECAUSE it was going to take so much to sign him. It has nothing to do with ND. Samardzija was a top draft prospect (ranked in the top 30 on draft day). Many teams were interested, but like we see each year, teams stay away from guys who demand high dollars. Dillon Maples (Cubs 12th or 14th round pick this past year) was a top 50 draft prospect. Teams passed and passed and passed because it was going to cost too much to sign him. The same thing happened with Samardzija. They all liked him, but few teams could invest that much money and those who dd weren’t willing to deal with the chance that he’d quit and play football.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah. Miles says the Cubs can cut his salary up to 20%, but that means you’re still paying him around $1.6 mil. That’s a lot for a middle reliever with his numbers.[/quote]The only thing I can think of is that the Cubs believe he can fetch something in a trade. Or they believe they can help him continue to pitch well or even improve.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah. Miles says the Cubs can cut his salary up to 20%, but that means you’re still paying him around $1.6 mil. That’s a lot for a middle reliever with his numbers.[/quote]
The difference between that and league minimum is peanuts for a team with a payroll the size of the Cubs. By all means find better relief pitchers, but an extra $800k isn’t much to get worked up over.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Ah. For some reason I though his option was for $2 mil. $2.64 mil? Not a chance in hell I pay him that money.[/quote]Didn’t he made $3 million last year? That’s where we begin (20% less than that).
[quote name=Snyds01]Cots had his salary at 3.3 in ’11 meaning he would make 2.64 mil in 2012 at minimum if true.[/quote]
Does Cot’s roll the signing bonus into the salary? That might be affecting some of these numbers too
[quote name=Berselius]The difference between that and league minimum is peanuts for a team with a payroll the size of the Cubs. By all means find better relief pitchers, but an extra $800k isn’t much to get worked up over.[/quote]$1.8 million. I was happy to see the Cubs save $2 million today, but signing him is a waste unless there’s something there they think they can do to help him improve.
[quote name=mb21]Teams stayed away from Samardzija BECAUSE it was going to take so much to sign him. It has nothing to do with ND. Samardzija was a top draft prospect (ranked in the top 30 on draft day). Many teams were interested, but like we see each year, teams stay away from guys who demand high dollars. Dillon Maples (Cubs 12th or 14th round pick this past year) was a top 50 draft prospect. Teams passed and passed and passed because it was going to cost too much to sign him. The same thing happened with Samardzija. They all liked him, but few teams could invest that much money and those who dd weren’t willing to deal with the chance that he’d quit and play football.[/quote]I don’t think that contradicts anything in my comment. The Cubs bid against themselves, and still authored a deal with all kinds of strangeness in it. It’s not bad, it’s just odd. In retrospect, I think if there was one thing the Cubs were consistently bad at, FO-wise, under Hendry, it was structuring deals. NTC clauses given out like candy, several complicated options packages, etc. It’s like they wanted to make players as untradeable as possible. (dying laughing)
I have F7s contract paying him $2.8 million last year.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I don’t think that contradicts anything in my comment. The Cubs bid against themselves, and still authored a deal with all kinds of strangeness in it. It’s not bad, it’s just odd. In retrospect, I think if there was one thing the Cubs were consistently bad at, FO-wise, under Hendry, it was structuring deals. NTC clauses given out like candy, several complicated options packages, etc. It’s like they wanted to make players as untradeable as possible. (dying laughing)[/quote]Every team is bidding against themselves after they draft a player.
[quote name=mb21]$1.8 million. I was happy to see the Cubs save $2 million today, but signing him is a waste unless there’s something there they think they can do to help him improve.[/quote]Even then, I’d only sign him if that improvement was able to get him in the rotation. The Cubs gave him that rookie deal with the expectation he’d be a SP, not an RP. And as you know, I’m done paying RP’s. (dying laughing)
[quote name=ACT]I wish I could find a pic of him in uniform from his brief stint with the Cubs.[/quote]
[quote name=mb21]Every team is bidding against themselves after they draft a player.[/quote]True, but you know what I mean.
In order for the Cubs to sign F7, they had to beat what he was going to get early in his NFL career. That’s what they were negotiating against. Unlike most draft prospects, F7 actually had far more leverage than most of them.
I’m fine with NTC, options and that stuff. They come at a cost. Teams don’t just throw options and NTC in. If a player wants one, he get paid less. it’s not like the Cubs and the player work out a contract and then they throw in the NTC to be nice. It’s part of the negotiation. I’m also unconvinced the Cubs have had troubles trading players.
Zambrano, Dempster and Ramirez had NTC at this point because they were 10 and 5 players. Fukudome had one and the Cubs were still able to move him for good value. Lee also had the NTC because of 10 and 5 status. Soriano now has 10 and 5 status.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]True,
but you know what I mean.amirite?[/quote].(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Glad you’re alive.
[quote name=GBTS](dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Glad you’re alive.[/quote]
I have work to do.
and…
Pos’n ML Srv Agent Length / Total Value 2011 2012
Samardzija, Jeff rhp 1.028 Mark Rodgers 5 yr/$10M (07-11)+12 & 13 cl opts $3,300,000 opt
I don’t even mind the opt out clause they’ve had in both Ramirez’s contracts. Again, it came at a small cost to Ramirez and it’s something that we see fairly often now (Sabathia, JD Drew and I’m sure several others).
If someone can tell me the Cubs are just handing these things out, like they’re getting ready to sign the deal and when they’re handing the player a pen it comes with options and NTC, then I’d be pissed.
The Reds just slapped Brandon Philips in the face.
That is, they picked up his option, which he said would be a slap in the face.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]True, but you know what I mean.[/quote]The question for the Cubs at that time was this: how much do we have to give Samardzija to keep him from playing football and is it worth it? Looking back the answer is no, it has not yet been worth it, but $10 million for a power righty? I’d take that in the draft.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Even then, I’d only sign him if that improvement was able to get him in the rotation. The Cubs gave him that rookie deal with the expectation he’d be a SP, not an RP. And as you know, I’m done paying RP’s. (dying laughing)[/quote]I agree with you here, but I don’t want F7 in the rotation so just let him walk. (dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21]In order for the Cubs to sign F7, they had to beat what he was going to get early in his NFL career. That’s what they were negotiating against. Unlike most draft prospects, F7 actually had far more leverage than most of them.
I’m fine with NTC, options and that stuff. They come at a cost. Teams don’t just throw options and NTC in. If a player wants one, he get paid less. it’s not like the Cubs and the player work out a contract and then they throw in the NTC to be nice. It’s part of the negotiation. I’m also unconvinced the Cubs have had troubles trading players.
Zambrano, Dempster and Ramirez had NTC at this point because they were 10 and 5 players. Fukudome had one and the Cubs were still able to move him for good value. Lee also had the NTC because of 10 and 5 status. Soriano now has 10 and 5 status.[/quote]
That’s fine. Once again, I don’t think it was a abd deal, just oddly structured. And they also gave him a NTC! Strasburg didn’t even get a NTC. No NFL rookie would ever get a NTC, hell, wouldn’t even get a guaranteed contract. F7 was probably a mid-late 1st round pick, so the money the Cubs gave him was right on, as compared to the guaranteed money he’d have had in an NFL deal. But a 5th-year option and a NTC are just odd.
As for the other deals, there’s a bit of goalpost shifting going on here. All I’m trying to say is Hendry built some odd deals. A large part of Hendry’s talent as a GM was having good enough relationships around he league that he was never hamstrung in his deals by the odd contracts he wrote. Just because many of those contracts never came back to bite him in the ass doesn’t mean they were well built. What is you’re fond of saying “you have to judge a deal when it’s signed?” I think that applies here. It’s one thing to say it was strange to give a rookie a NTC or to give Fukudome a NTC; it’s another thing completely to judge whether or not that NTC later became an issue or not.
James Shields had his option picked up as well.
[quote name=mb21]The question for the Cubs at that time was this: how much do we have to give Samardzija to keep him from playing football and is it worth it? Looking back the answer is no, it has not yet been worth it, but $10 million for a power righty? I’d take that in the draft.[/quote]Yeah, Hendry got the money spot-on, IMO. F7 was looking at somewhere around 8-10 mil in guaranteed money in any NFL deal, so they definitely got the money right.
[quote name=mb21]I agree with you here, but I don’t want F7 in the rotation so just let him walk. (dying laughing)[/quote]Yeah. Plus, with Carpenter, Jackson, Cashner, et. al, the Cubs aren’t hurting for guys that throw 90-plus with no control in the bullpen. (dying laughing)
http://baseballplayersalaries.com/players/659_Jeff_Samardzija
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
I don’t think the 5th year option is odd. I think that’s rather common for these types of deals. It was a Major League contract. The addition of the NTC is what is frustrating, I agree. But that was the cost to keep him from playing football. Let me ask you this, has there been any point in the last 5 years that you think any team would have traded for Samardzija? This past year was about the first time he did anything and even then it came with a walk rate over 5.
I know what you’re saying. I’m just trying to point out that $10 million and NTC was the least valuable contract that F7 would agree to in which he also agreed to give up football.
The contract I’m more pissed about is the one Bud voided. It paid him $7.5 million, no NTC, no agreement to not play football, but if he did play football, the entire contract was voided. That was the original contract the two sides signed. Then Bud got involved.
[quote name=mb21]I don’t even mind the opt out clause they’ve had in both Ramirez’s contracts. Again, it came at a small cost to Ramirez and it’s something that we see fairly often now (Sabathia, JD Drew and I’m sure several others).
If someone can tell me the Cubs are just handing these things out, like they’re getting ready to sign the deal and when they’re handing the player a pen it comes with options and NTC, then I’d be pissed.[/quote]
I think we’ll start seeing more and more of those opt-out clauses, especially on big deals. The MLBPA has to love them, the agents love them, and the owners probably love them, too, because it gives them a possible out on a big-money year or two at the end of a deal. It’s basically a way of backdooring in a diminished skills clause (I still can’t believe the White Sox got Thomas to sign that.).
[quote name=mb21]I don’t think the 5th year option is odd. I think that’s rather common for these types of deals. It was a Major League contract. The addition of the NTC is what is frustrating, I agree. But that was the cost to keep him from playing football. Let me ask you this, has there been any point in the last 5 years that you think any team would have traded for Samardzija? This past year was about the first time he did anything and even then it came with a walk rate over 5.
I know what you’re saying. I’m just trying to point out that $10 million and NTC was the least valuable contract that F7 would agree to in which he also agreed to give up football.
The contract I’m more pissed about is the one Bud voided. It paid him $7.5 million, no NTC, no agreement to not play football, but if he did play football, the entire contract was voided. That was the original contract the two sides signed. Then Bud got involved.[/quote]Agreed. That’s why I say it was odd, but not a bad deal.
I hadn’t heard that Bud was in this, but that deal would have been great. Fucking Selig.
Oh yeah, that $7.5 million, that was the signing bonus. After that, the Cubs were on the hook for him just as they are any other drafted player. That was a great contract. Bud gets involved and all of a sudden it’s a 5-year, $10 million contract with a no-trade clause. Since MLB contracts can’t be voided, F7 had to agree to not quit to play football until the contract was over.
Thanks a lot, Bud.
[quote name=mb21]The contract I’m more pissed about is the one Bud voided. It paid him $7.5 million, no NTC, no agreement to not play football, but if he did play football, the entire contract was voided. That was the original contract the two sides signed. Then Bud got involved.[/quote]Why was it voided?
[quote name=mb21]Oh yeah, that $7.5 million, that was the signing bonus. After that, the Cubs were on the hook for him just as they are any other drafted player. That was a great contract. Bud gets involved and all of a sudden it’s a 5-year, $10 million contract with a no-trade clause. Since MLB contracts can’t be voided, F7 had to agree to not quit to play football until the contract was over.
Thanks a lot, Bud.[/quote]
So the Cubs basically gave him an NFL deal and Bud voided it. (dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21]Oh yeah, that $7.5 million, that was the signing bonus. After that, the Cubs were on the hook for him just as they are any other drafted player. That was a great contract. Bud gets involved and all of a sudden it’s a 5-year, $10 million contract with a no-trade clause. Since MLB contracts can’t be voided, F7 had to agree to not quit to play football until the contract was over.
Thanks a lot, Bud.[/quote]So basically, because Bud demanded Jeff agree not to play football, in the contract?
[quote name=josh]Why was it voided?[/quote]I can’t remember exactly, but notice that the contract he signed was in 2007. He was drafted n 2006 and actually played ball. He can’t play until after he signs a contract. MLB ripped that original contract up.
I think it may have had to do with it being a contract that could be voided and MLB did not want that. I don’t have a problem with it as it gave Samardzija an out to go play football if baseball wasn’t working out. That’s an out I thought he deserved.
[quote name=josh]Why was it voided?[/quote]I’m guessing because of all that bonus money up front. No way an owner friendly commish like Bud is going to let that precedent get set.
Either that or MLBPA made a beef about the deal being voidable and they didn’t want that precedent set.
[quote name=josh]So basically, because Bud demanded Jeff agree not to play football, in the contract?[/quote]Yeah, and the more I think about this, I believe it was a $5 million signing bonus with $2.5 million more if he played baseball for a certain period of time.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m guessing because of all that bonus money up front. No way an owner friendly commish like Bud is going to let that precedent get set.[/quote]That could be, but that a friendly contract to the Cubs. More than likely F7 is done with baseball at this point and maybe playing in the NFL.
[quote name=mb21]That could be, but that a friendly contract to the Cubs. More than likely F7 is done with baseball at this point and maybe playing in the NFL.[/quote]It’s friendly in that it’s voidable, but not friendly in that it goes way overslot and fucks up the slotting for the next draft.
Probably trying to force F7 to choose, for whatever reason. Maybe because it’s bad publicity if a player leaves baseball to go play football.
[quote name=josh]Probably trying to force F7 to choose, for whatever reason. Maybe because it’s bad publicity if a player leaves baseball to go play football.[/quote]Nah. Elway did it. So did Ced Benson. I’m sure there have been several others.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Nah. Elway did it. So did Ced Benson. I’m sure there have been several others.[/quote]I didn’t know that.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]
[/quote]That shit is bananas!
http://www.thecubreporter.com/2011/06/15/preparing-2012-apocalypse
Nice to have someone else do the work for us.
This purports to be a complete list of NFL’ers drafted by MLB teams. Now not all of them played (I know that Benson and Elway did, not sure about the others):
There’s even more in the thread here: http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?49602-NFL-Players-drafted-by-MLB
Maybe the difference is just that it was a big league contract, whereas those guys had minor league contracts? I’m grasping straws here.
[quote name=josh]Maybe the difference is just that it was a big league contract, whereas those guys had minor league contracts? I’m grasping straws here.[/quote]Yeah, that could be it. I’m not sure how often big league deals are given to guys just to keep them away from football.
Was it just me or did F7 show a lot of improvement this year?
Yeah, he still sucked.
It may have had something to do with the team being sold too.
Smardzija had a good K-rate, but his control was horrendous, and his HR rate was probably lucky.
[quote name=josh]Was it just me or did F7 show a lot of improvement this year?[/quote]Good K numbers, but his FIP was almost 2 runs worse than his ERA and he’s still walking guys at a troubling rate.
I was way off. The deal was initially thought to be worth $7.25 million by Baseball America, but the Cubs actually signed Samardzija for $250,000 signing bonus (that’s it): http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2006-06-25/sports/0606250354_1_general-manager-jim-hendry-cubs-jeff-samardzija
I know there were rumors for a long time about Selig’s involvement with this and I don’t have any idea what happened after the 2006 season, but something obviously did to throw that kind of money at Samardzija.
[quote name=ACT]Smardzija had a good K-rate, but his control was horrendous, and his HR rate was probably lucky.[/quote]No kidding. His HR/FB was cut in half from 2010 and was almost a third of what it was in 2009. I’d be very reticent to bring him back. His 2012 could be downright ugly.
He also had a relatively low BABIP though he’s had that before.
[quote name=josh]Was it just me or did F7 show a lot of improvement this year?[/quote][quote name=josh]Yeah, he still sucked.[/quote](dying laughing)
[quote name=ACT]Smardzija had a good K-rate, but his control was horrendous, and his HR rate was probably lucky.[/quote]I guess I got fixated on his HR rate, but you’re probably right.
I don’t know what happened, but I remain convinced Selig got involved. Here’s the report after the Cubs signed him to the most recent contract: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2736354
Kyle Farnsworth got reupped for $3.3m by TB
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]Kyle Farnsworth got reupped for $3.3m by TB[/quote]WTF
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]WTF[/quote]Kelly Shoppach ——> walking papers. TB looking for “more offense from behind the plate in 2012.”
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]Kelly Shoppach ——> walking papers. TB looking for “more offense from behind the plate in 2012.”[/quote]Soto for Fuld?
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]This purports to be a complete list of NFL’ers drafted by MLB teams. Now not all of them played (I know that Benson and Elway did, not sure about the others):
[/quote]
Josh Booty did. Not that it matters all that much, but I did want to type the words ‘Josh Booty’ today. Thanks for making it happen!
[quote name=GBTS]Soto for Fuld?[/quote]Soto for Farnsworth. Farnsworth vs. F7 exhibition wrestling matches. Women swoon. $$$
new shit: http://www.obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/aramis-ramirez-declines-option-cubs-decline-option-on-jeff-samardzija.html
[quote name=mb21]Too lazy to see if anybody has answered this already, but it’s about service time. Samardzija signed for 5 years. There was no way on earth he could be eligible for free agency before that contract ended as you need 6 years of service time to be eligible for free agency. On top of that, some of those 5 years were spent in the minor leagues.
Options come at a price. A team option will cost the team a bit more in the previous years whereas a player option will cost the player a bit. So the club option that was agreed to essentially paid Samardzija a bit more money in the preceding years. The Cubs could have turned it around and made it a player option and the years before this would have cost less, but as we can see now, the years going forward would have cost more.
I disagree with MO about this being a bad deal for the Cubs. Any time you draft and sign a player there is great risk. Signing a guy who had a 98 mph fastball to a 5-year contract for only $10 million is nothing. More than likely the prospect fails, but on the off chance he succeeds you’ve got yourself one hell of a deal. The reason we so liked this last draft is the same reason we liked that pick. Drafting players and signing them above slot is risky. Considering the low cost, it’s well worth the risk.[/quote]Exactly. I mean, Shark could still easily earn this contract. Literally being worth 2WAR next year would accomplish that. Or at least come outrageously close.