Rotation battle news
Chris Volstad followed up Jeff Samardzija's strong outing with three solid innings of his own yesterday. Volstad struck out three, walked none, and allowed one hit. Spring training stats don't mean much (especially just three innings for each guy), but as far as we can tell things are very up in the air for the last two rotation spots, and Sveum seems very impressed with Shark. Carrie Muskat pointed out in yesterday's mailbag that Randy Wells still has one option left. I still like Wells much more than the rest of the options. I think he was rushed back from his injury way too soon (and who wouldn't do it with Doug Davis and Ramon Ortiz getting starts?) and it took him quite a while to get his feet under him.
Kerry Wood followed him up with a scoreless inning, but not so much for Carlos Marmol in the fifth. Marmol recorded two strikeouts in between hitting a batter, giving up three line drives, and watching a Dustin Ackley home run. He was pulled before the end of the inning. Sveum mentioned after the game that Marmol was just focusing on locating his fastball yesterday, and would have spun much more sliders if it was a for-real game.
Soriano homered in his first at-bat, prompting cries of watchering from Hobbitton. As Josh pointed out, it would have been a 2-R homer if he hustled out of the box.
Single game tickets on sale today
Get them while they're lukewarm!
Season preview from Brewers fans perspective
Brewers blog Disciples of Uecker did a preview of the 2012 Cubs. They're not too worried about the Cubs this year, but having Thoyer come in is certainly making other NL central fans nervous for the long run,
Ted Lilly trade ephemera
Kyle Smit, who was part of the package the Cubs recieved for Ted Lilly and taking Dance Fever, was released yesterday. Smit showed a little promise in A-ball but struggled when moved up the ladder last year. Even if the stars had aligned for him it looked like he would have been a replacement level relief pitcher.
Tweet I recently enjoyed
Pat Robertson comes out in favor of legalizing pot on the same day Taco Bell releases a Doritos shell taco? Kudos to marijuana's PR firm.
— Tim Siedell (@badbanana) March 8, 2012
Confidential to person who found OV with the search engine phrase "does Anthony Rizzo have what it takes to be a great major league pitcher"
No.
An actual baseball-related tangent in the comments yesterday on broadcasters and statistics
There was lots of discussion yesterday about how much (and what flavor of) statistics we like the broadcast team to include during a game, stemming from comments about Len Kasper. I don't really mind when Len brings up fangraphs. I know he mention BABIP at least once, but from what I remember most of the relatively rare mentions he makes about fangraphs are usually about the pfx data they have on their pitcher pages. I don't think it's that awkward, nor is he a particular evangelist. It's not like Len trotting out the HOF WAR arguments threads that have been beaten to death over the years, or even particularly advocating for fangraphs stats he mentioned. I'm fine with a program showing a slash line, or even just putting up as OPS as many outlets do. It's not *that* far off, value-wise, from wOBA, and it's much easier to grasp for the casual fan who doesn't care about non-integer weights. The actual calculation of, say, SLG looks ugly because of all the terms but they're all integers and it's easy to translate in your head (total bases per AB).
Is there Wrigley Talk Friday today?
Indeed. Will Carroll will be a special guest.
Is there a Cubs game today?
Ideed. They play the White Sox at 2 PM today. It's even televised……by Hawk and Former Playgirl Model Steve Stone. Len Kasper and the AA Tennessee Smokies announcer, who makes Keith Moreland look good by comparison, also have the call on gameday audio.
The Cubs posted today's lineup yesterday. Kevin Millar would approve.
DH Soriano
2B Barney
RF Baker
1B LaHair
CF Byrd
LF Mather
C Clevenger
SS Lake
3B Gonzalez
Travis Wood pitching
Is Bruce Weber the coach of the Illini?
No. At least Illinois fans are inured to late season collapses at this point.
Bunt tournament news
Five players remain. Casey Coleman, Paul Maholm, and Welington Castillo have already reached the Final Four, Either Starlin Castro or David DeJesus will join them. No word yet on whether the Cubs organization will investigate a possible point-shaving scheme involving Tony Campana.
I liked the item about Anthony Rizzo being a pitcher.
The Brewers fan post was a nice read, thank you for that.
josh wrote:
I don’t see what’s hard about it. It’s batting average, but a double is worth twice as much, a triple 3 times as much, and a homer 4 times. How is ISO easier?
Glad Weber was fired. I’m the only Illini on this undiscredited blog, right?
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/looking-into-the-crystal-ball-mlb-social-media-future/
If MLB would ease their blackout rules on MLB.tv I think they’d be in pretty good shape. I do understand trying to keep certain things copyrighted, but the nice thing is that for blogs you can at least embed the MLB.com highlight videos. What would be nicer is if they give you an option to download a video, as certain videos start getting trashed off their servers when they get too old. It’d be a shame to lose Lou Piniella’s “Marshall in LF” video highlight.
@ Mish:
I have friends who are Illini, but they’re graduate students. They might care though.
I don’t buy the idea of OPS being easier to calculate. Sure, if they already know OBP and SLG it is, but the formula for OPS is a fucking mess.
If ACT is right and that the average fan can calculate SLG in his head then he can absolutely calculate wOBA in his head using the simple method: (.7*BB+.9*1B+1.3*(2b+3B)+2*HR)/PA
For those intersted, The Wire tournament on Grantland.com has come down to Omar vs. Avon and McNulty vs. Stringer in the Final Four.
@ mb21:
Don’t they change the multipliers every now and then?
mb21 wrote:
I’m confused. Are you actually saying OPS is easier than SLG? I don’t see how than can be the case.
mb21 wrote:
What does showing them a number they don’t understand accomplish? Most people would either accept it by faith or (more likely) ignore it. There’s a misconception that sabermetrics is just about replacing the old metrics with new ones (as opposed to objectively looking for answers). This would reinforce that perception.
mb21 wrote:
I want to see the batting average because I want to see how often he gets a hit. There’s more to stats than evaluation; I want to know what kind of hitter I’m watching.
In our co-ed softball league I put together advanced stats. It was easy to do OBP and SLG and OPS. Isn’t SLG just Total Bases / At Bats? I had a 1.250 OPS while being forced to bat lefty. Suck it Pujols.
Although my AVG and OBP were both .417. I hated taking a walk in softball (dying laughing)
/cool story bro
@ Mucker:
There was really no point in doing this if you include Omar.
I hope McNulty advances because Avon and String should go down together.
@ mb21:
Every rate stat is a pain in the ass to calculate. You need a calculator to calculate batting average, the other ones just happen to have extra terms. The ones for wOBA are harder to remember but that’s not really the point. The point is that you can sum up the main stats in a single sentence and relate them to things that happen. If more people presented wOBA like BP does EqBA or whatever the fuck they’re calling it now I think it would be less of a problem. But it seems like every time someone tries to introduce wOBA they go on and on about linear weights and win values and rescaling etc etc. OPS just says “I take these two things where I know what they do, and add them”. Most people need a calculator for that too (dying laughing).
Obviously I prefer wOBA but if people find OPS more accessible, more power to them. If I want to make projections or anything where I care about accuracy, I’ll use wOBA.
So it does seem that the multipliers do change from season to season based on how runs are valued that season. Did I understand that correctly?
@ Rice Cube:
It’s scaled to OBP, so the average wOBA is always equal to the average OBP for the season.
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
http://m.gawker.com/5891938/
@ ACT:
Is there a reason for doing that?
I think the reason why OPS+ makes me happier is that I know that 100 is always the average and higher is good and lower is bad. If they could do the same with wOBA it’d be easier to understand.
I definitely feel like OPS+ would be easier to explain. You don’t get into the nitty-gritty of it, just say “There’s a stat called OPS+ that measures offensive ability, where 100 is average, and anything over 100 is good but below 100 is bad” and that’s it. 10 seconds, max, and the listener learns a new stat. For the most part I don’t think it’s necessary to know exactly how to calculate a stat, but at least know why it’s important/better and how to use it in context.
If a league average wOBA last year was .330 (I made that up, not sure where to look it up), then just make that a wOBA+ of 100 and scale to that. Would that be inappropriate?
Rice Cube wrote:
It’s just the definition of wOBA. Like Tav, it’s set to a scale that most are familiar with. It also means the coefficients revolve around 1: a home run is twice the value of an average “on base” event; a walk is about 70%, etc.
@ Rice Cube:
Fangraphs already does that. It’s called wRC+.
ACT wrote:
Yes and no. To most fans, OPS=OBP+SLG. It’s the addition of two numbers that somebody else already calculates. The average fan doesn’t think of OPS as anything other than that. The actual formula for OBP and SLG and the addition of the two is far more difficult than wOBA.
@ ACT:
Aha! I have learned something new. +1!
I think for the most part a fan would get the most benefit from knowing what “average” is, and scaling it to 100 makes the most sense to me. If they were going to introduce statistics, they should tell people what the average MLB player has put up and then compare the player currently at-bat to the average so the fan can know what to expect. At least that makes sense to me.
mb21 wrote:
I feel like this is the case. Those who care go to fangraphs or find discredited blogs already. Others just watch baseball for the bunts and sac flies and the grittiness. The triple slash gives some advanced stats while still dumbing it down for the average fan.
All I want from a stat is that someone explains what it means in relation to things I already comprehend. In most fans’ cases, they understand what batting average means. If someone can occasionally reference how wOBA is a handier tool to gauge a hitter’s performance than batting average, I won’t mind it shoeing up in broadcasts. WHIP is a fairly new stat that wasn’t around when Harry and Jack were calling games, but people have accepted it enough to the point where you don’t need to clarify what you mean by WHIP every time you reference it.
I think any stat can reach that level. But the broadcasters still treat these stats like they are fancy, so most fans disregard them because they just want their “reg’lar” stats. It doesn’t help when there are more broadcasters like Morgan who openly dismiss them, than use them regularly.
@ ACT:
I get it now, I think, it’s just harder to see what information it’s trying to convey when you first come into it. Not that I had any idea what the formula for ISO was at first, but I just felt like I understood what it wast trying to tell me better. It doesn’t really matter anymore. I grew up with AVG/HR/RBI and that’s it. I used to just feel a vague sense of annoyance when they flashed anything else, because I didn’t get it. That’s how I used to feel. Now, I hate that the analysis is always the same four talking points repeated ad nauseam.
@ WaLi:
I wouldn’t call OBP and SLG “advanced”. I think the slash line is fine because it gives you an idea of what kind of hitter a guy is. I actually prefer triple slash to something like wOBA while watching a game on tv/in person with unfamiliar players because of that.
@ Mucker:
How is McNulty so close with String? I’m a fan of McNulty and wanted him to get this far, but Stringer should be blowing him away. Omar is indeed blowing Avon away. I was looking forward to the Omar/Stringer rematch. It would end with the same result.
@ Aisle424:
Yeah, the broadcaster’s job should be to make that stuff sound less daunting, not by explaining the mathematics, but by illustrating to people its use with a single player and how you can use it to compare two players. The formulae are irrelevant if people don’t get the story the number tells, in a sense. That’s what I was trying to get at. Saying “SLG tells you on average how many bases he gets per at-bat” is a million times more useful for understanding it than “the formula to calculate SLG is…”
@ Rice Cube:
I’m sure he did all those on the first try.
@ mb21:
I don’t get all the McNulty love either. Still can’t believe he beat The Bunk.
Aisle424 wrote:
Yeah, exactly. Maybe fans right now don’t know what the hell wOBA is, but they soon will. I’m not the least bit concerned about that like ACT is. I’m less concerned because fans are using incorrect measures to value a player. Let them be the ones who have to search for the batting average. My guess is those who think average is all that would be too lazy to do just that and they’d figure wOBA out.
Berselius wrote:
Any time I see a triple rate stat on tv I’m converting it to wOBA in my head (1.7*OBP+SLG)/3.
McNutt, Ha, Carillo, Mota ——-> minor league camp
@ Berselius:
I voted for him over Bunk. Bunk was a great character, but McNulty’s character evolved throughout the show. He went from being a piece of shit drunk who was a good cop with good intentions. He became a piece of shit drunk who was a bad cop with bad intentions. He was sober at one point, he pushed the division to actually go after these people, and called everyone out on their shit (except himself of course).
@ josh:
Or telling the fans that OBP’s formula.
@ Berselius:
Yeah, I guess they aren’t advanced but you can decipher all you need from them.
Berselius wrote:
Agreed.
josh wrote:
This.
The only problem with showing average is if/when the broadcasters are using it do drive the commentary (i.e. AVG w/ RISP, while wind is blowing in, on a Saturday afternoon when the pigeons are eating trash in the outfield).
@ mb21:
Yeah McNulty’s story arc was one of the most dynamic in the show. I love that being a cop is both the best and worst thing for him. That beat cop stuff was agonizing, because you knew they were setting him up for the biggest fall of all.
mb21 wrote:
That sounds a lot easier than all the multiplier crap (dying laughing)
RBIs and Homeruns are very easy to visualize, as is BA.
@ josh:
BA is cool if you like action, because walks are kind of meh (unless there’s a wild pitch on ball four). But I think if you know that a guy who bats .300 gets a hit 30% of the time he has an official at-bat, you should also be able to comprehend that a guy who has a .385 OBP doesn’t make an out 38.5% of the time.
@ Rice Cube:
I agree. OBP isn’t hard to visualize either. It’s become a common stat, I think, too. BA might say that 25% of the time, the dude gets a hit, so if you’re watching him bat, you figure he has a 1/4 chance of getting a hit. RBIs and HRs are more accomplishments, like trophies, but people figure the larger each number is, the more likely that guy is good at that skill of getting a HR or RBI, and so you should expect him to do it again. The actual relationship to reality is fuzzy, but you can describe various types of RBI and times when HR really mattered. There’s a built-in narrative. I’m just talking out of my ass right now. This is based on my experience. It took me quite a while to learn what these other statistics were telling me, and that’s probably due in large part to just never hearing them until a few years ago.
From a teaching perspective, I think all but the dumbest fans could easily learn the stats, if they were presented in the right way, and that could enrich their experience with the game.
@ Mish:
I’m not an Illini, but I live near them. I sometimes throw rocks at them.
ACT wrote:
How often he gets a hit when you take away walks, hit by pitches and sacrifices. That’s just not something I need to see. Take Ryan Theriot’s 2008 when he hit over .300 and I can’t think of any situation in which I’d prefer him batting over Adam Dunn who probably hit 100 points worse. I don’t remember the last time I wanted to see a guy’s batting average. Batting average tells me nothing that two other stats they’re showing doesn’t already tell us. Showing me the batting average along with OBP and SLG is as useful to me as also showing the OPS.
I don’t run any tv stations and even if I did I doubt MLB would allow me to relegate batting average to obscurity even if I begged them. So nothing will change and that doesn’t bother me. I’ll continue to overlook the average and rbi when they show that. The last time I followed someone’s RBI was in 2001 when Sammy was driving a runner in per game and driving in nearly 100 more than any other Cub.
I guess when I think about it I don’t really care how often a player gets a base hit. I don’t think I’d thought about that until this discussion, but I don’t. I care about how frequently he makes outs instead.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/looking-good-little-league-padres-vast-uniform-history-163710154.html
A community service act I recently enjoyed.
WaLi wrote:
I disagree. The commentary on batting average is almost always about how good a hitter someone is. Not just with men in scoring position or other situations. That’s why I don’t care if people understand wOBA. They may understand how to calculate batting average, but they have no idea how to use it and no idea what it tells them. ACT is right that batting average tells us how frequently someone gets a hit, but only after you exclude positive events like taking walks, getting hit by a pitch, reaching on error and subtracting negative events like sac hits and sac flies (scores a run, but personally it’s a negative event). The average person doesn’t think about it that much. Instead, he’ll say this guy is hitting .300 so 3 out of 10 trips to the plate. It’s not true.
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mb21 wrote:
Download | Convert YouTube to MP3
/blatant attempt to Star Wars-ify a thread
(since it hasn’t happened in a while)
josh wrote:
Agreed. I think some people discount McNulty because some of his stories were flawed, but he had twice as many as any other character. Maybe even more than that.
@ Rice Cube:
For on the fly it’s super simple. I suppose berselius is right that full integers are easier for people to work with so I suppose the average person won’t fuck around with even the simple version. I’d also guess most of those people also wouldn’t fuck around with something like SLG. It’s clear to me that people are too dumb to think about that stuff because OPS is so widely used. OPS is actually fairly good at what it does, but it’s only fairly good because you add two already calculated numbers together. If someone was calculating these numbers for many players on a spreadsheet they would rather use wOBA. It’s just easier.
/last comment on this issue
@ mb21:
+1
Aisley and AC around? You guys should ask Will Carroll what color code you are on the injury scale. I will sadly miss WTF but I’d like to know what he says (dying laughing)
Hey, a stats fight! Those are always worth checking in for.
One of the reasons wOBA is my “favorite” stat is that it is so easy to understand what it means: it is (almost) the average number of runs you expect every time the guy comes to the plate, compared to somebody who makes an out every time.
That “almost” comes from the fact that it’s multiplied by roughly 1.15 so that the scale (and the average) are almost identical to OBA (that is, OBP). I’d actually prefer that tango had left out the scaling factor and kept the meaning clearer, but meh. It’s still an awfully good stat.
Wait, you guys were serious about Will Carroll?
@ GBTS:
LOHO posted about it and I don’t think Julie jokes around. At least not often.
@ GBTS:
Paul Sullivan will be on next week.
@ fang2415:
See if you can kick the shit out of him over the phone.
fang2415 wrote:
I think you were joking, but I want to make it clear that I’m not saying “it must be this way.” Like I’ve said, I don’t particularly care. If ACT, berselius and others prefer seeing batting average and the triple rate stats, so be it. Clearly they don’t have the same issue with the stats shown on tv or in ballparks that I do. No big deal. I don’t know if I’m right. It’s just what I’d prefer.
@ mb21:
You are right, it is almost always about how good a hitter is. I was just poorly using an example of how stupid it is.
For the record, I don’t care much for AVG except for the fact that I grew up with it. I tend to gloss over it and look at OBP and SLG.
Yeah, batting average is worthless. I only like it in the triple slash as you can see it as a baseline for the other two.
Apparently the ticket windows at Wrigley were/are empty today. Seats are still available for opening day and the Red Sox series.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/09/jeff-moorad-withdraws-his-application-to-take-over-the-padres/
Would this have any effect on the Cubs’ compensation dealings with the Padres for taking Hoyer and McLeod?
Fangraphs: The Cubs have one of the top 22 farm systems in the MLB. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/ranking-the-30-minor-league-systems/
@ ACT:
The Brewers have sure fallen off a cliff, haven’t they?
mb21 wrote:
@ ACT:
(replace 2011 with 2018)
How can one possibly rank Baez higher than Jackson and Rizzo? As for catching being a weakness, they have a relatively young and productive starter in Geovany Soto under control for 2 more years. They have 2 guys who are least quality backups in Castillo and Clevenger under control for 6.
mb21 wrote:
I missed the first 90% of the debate, so I just assumed you all had been saying whatever my reply was relevant to. (dying laughing)
@ Berselius:
Forgot about those two trades. They’re kind of screwed. I know they’re spending more money, but they’ve got to be close to their limit.
@ mb21:
I’m pretty sure they had to defer and backload a lot of Aramis’ contract because of their budget constraints.
I also don’t remember exactly how it happened, but K-Rod accepted arbitration and that probably threw a wrench into their plans.
BB fans:
http://www.avclub.com/articles/bryan-cranston-says-that-breaking-bad-will-return,70657/
@ mb21:
Yeah, it seems like they were being lazy with a bunch of teams and rated their 2011 draft pick as top prospect.
@ WaLi:
Yeah and that’s when I begin to pay little attention to that person when it comes to prospects.
@ Mish:
I don’t know why Bob Brenly fans would be particularly excited by that news, Mish.
@ mb21:
(dying laughing), he also has Yonder Alonso as the top prospect in a stacked SD system. WTF?
Sori loves leading off.
@ ACT:
It was a double, I see. I’m sure it should have been at least a triple.
That’s the only joke I have, so I’m just going to keep cranking it out, btw.
He’s only hitting .667. If he were hustling, he’d be over .800.
@ ACT:
High batting average for a player you don’t like is actually the only time it’s okay to denigrate batting average as a statistic on national television. Little known fact.
I wish sveum would throw us a bone and play bjax and vitters during the wgn games.
Very aggressive, methinks.
@ GW:
I’m stuck at work, so it don’t mean shit to me. I would like to see those guys play, though.
josh wrote:
.
@ GW:
There’s a couple more this weekend so you may yet get your wish.
Glad to see the Cubs hired Saruman to coach first.
@ GW:
Is that a reference to the fine citizens of Arizona? No, that’s probably accurate.
http://firealyellon.wordpress.com/2009/02/19/al-likes-em-crispy/
@ GW:
Good stuff!
@ GW:
http://www.cafepress.com/pollyellon.294669720
(dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
@ GW:
A modern spring training classic.
@ Aisle424:
Soriano uses a 36 or heavier bat, right? I bet all those hundred dollar bills could weigh about as much.
GW wrote:
Awww… back in the days when DJ and Bad Kermit were friends. Good times.
That’s Wanda on the right.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/2009/2/26/772536/cubs-2009-spring-training#12536285
@ GW:
I still maintain that’s the funniest thing Yellon has ever said.
Byrd —> Wyrd
@ GBTS:
Truly, indeed
That Brian LaHair fella strikes out a lot.
Sounds like BJax in CF now. Who’s got a TV?
@ Rice Cube:
A Twhatnow?
Len is actually doing pretty good on the MLB.com audio describing where the fielders are, at least on the overshift against Dunn.
@ josh:
A television. It teleports images from there to your general area via a magic screen.
BJax was in RF, not CF. Guess they figure Campana should be CF.
@ Rice Cube:
DEVILMAGIC!!
Smart campaigning, josh.
http://gawker.com/5892045/
@ Rice Cube:
I noticed that his play-by-play on the radio was improved over last spring. He probably reads this blog and decided to up his game.
@ Rice Cube:
If Dunn performs anything like he did last year, the fielders might as well take their gloves off and sit down while he’s batting.
@ Mish:
In life I’ve learned: compliment the dick.
Mish wrote:
I’m an Illini
@ WenningtonsGorillaCock:
You’re a Gorilla Cock, dude.
I thought this was a Hawkeye/Gamecock blog.
Seriously, how can you give out a URL in your radio ad for your product, but give the wrong address? There’s no fucking such thing as a backslash in a damn URL Cubs!
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@ josh:
Download | Convert YouTube to MP3
(apologies for the quality, full episode available on Southparkstudios.com or Netflix)
@ Suburban kid:
The old ladies listening don’t know the difference, and the people who know how to type in a URL know which slash to use. That said, it is kind of annoying.
Harry Wendelstedt —————————————-> dead
Milt Pappas —————————————————> still pissed
(dying laughing)
Did anyone even mention tickets going on sale today, let alone that they bought some?
My how times have changed.
josh wrote:
False.
@ Suburban kid:
Present company excluded, of course.
@ Suburban kid:
You didn’t read every word.
Rhee bounced back from his lousy previous outing by striking out the side
@ Berselius:
I can’t argue with you today.
Kosuke —————-> WAG
@ Suburban kid:
Does this have something to do with facefucking again?
Upper deck outfield box seats still available in groups of six for Opening Day.
@ josh:
Weak Ass Groundout
@ Suburban kid:
I smell a caper!
@ Suburban kid:
That makes more sense than what Urban Dictionary was telling me.
Avon ——> Omar’s bitch
I posted that image of Z in the Marlins uniform that RC posted in the last thread on twitter last night. I check my replies and some dude tells me Z is a sack of shit. What is wrong with these people?
@ mb21:
Everything, mb. Everything.
@ mb21:
People are idiots.
Z did struggle in his Marlins debut but also recorded a bunch of strikeouts, so that’s always good, right? I do hope he does well. Some people just derive pleasure from putting down other people, even people who are more successful. It’s just one of those things.
Sack of shit – n – wealthy athlete who has adopted a neglected child from Venezuela, started his own foundation to help children and families in Chicago, and who has otherwise given more money to charity and his poor country than most of us will see between ours and our kids lifetimes.
I’d add something about being one of the best Cubs pitchers of all time, probably the best one who most of us seen have his peak years in Chicago, and a pillar of 3 playoff teams, including the best Cubs team I’ve ever seen. But that’s not really relevant.
Mish wrote:
Are you sure you’re not talking about some white guy?
/snark
Anyway, here are my final thoughts on batting average.
I have to admit that I find it odd that someone would say he doesn’t care how often a batter gets a hit. What makes hitters interesting is not merely how good they are, but how they are good. Ichiro and Dunn were both good hitters, but in completely unique ways. Simply comparing their wOBAs hides what makes them unique. It also helps to know what kind of hitter it is to see how valuable he is in that situation (with bases empty, a hitter with power is more desirable, with a runner on third–especially with 2 outs–high batting average is more valuable). Batting average is just another rate stat, like K%, BB%, FB%, etc. Players are good in unique ways and their skills are useful in certain situations more than others. I also don’t think batting average would be improved by changing the denominator from AB’s to PA’s. Doing so would “punish” hitters who walk a lot. For instance, Wade Boggs would look a lot worse than he was. Think of it as a hit-to-out ratio.
Finally getting around to watching today’s game and one early observation is the size of Darwin Barney. Dude got his swol on this offseason.
ACT wrote:
There are other ways to compare the two players without looking at batting average. I can look at their BB%, K%, the power and so on. I don’t need batting average to highlight the difference between hitters. In fact, I’d much rather not even have it when comparing hitters and I can safely say that I have not used it to compare hitters for at least 5 years. And doing so, I’ve not had a problem highlighting the differences between hitters. I really don’t know why we’re having a discussion on the merits of batting average. If you like to look at it, fine, but there are far better stats.
Pitcher wins tells us something too, but they’re equally useless.
You honestly think that how often a player walks or strikes out tells you more than how often he gets a hit? Hits are far more important than walks or strikeouts. How do you describe someone the success of someone like Tony Gwynn without observing that he got a ton of hits? I have no idea why you think someone’s BB or strikeout rate or flyball rate is worth noting, but not his hit rate. It seems like you’re overcompensating for BA being overrated. I’d put BA in the same category as BB%, K%, FB%, BABIP, etc., though I think it’s the most informative member of that category.
new shit: http://www.obstructedview.net/projections/projecting-the-2012-cubs-left-field.html