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  • Cubs Trade Marmol to California Angels of Disneyland for Dan Haren?

    There are multiple reports that the Cubs and Angels have traded Carlos Marmol for Dan Haren.The Angels seemed reluctant to keep Haren on a $15.5m option year. Per Robothal, the Angels might kick in the $3.5m that they would have had to pay for Haren's buyout. Bruce Levine has confimed the deal, however there are conflicting reports that another team may still be involved in negotiations with the Angels. 

    As much slagging of Haren as there seems to be going around the twittersphere, Haren posted 2.1 tWAR, 1.8 fWAR last year. On the other hand, the more ERA-based bWAR had him as a sub-replacement level pitcher. Haren's fastball velocity slipped to 88.5 last year, about a 1-2 mph drop from his career average. However, Haren's not a guy who is really blowing a fastball past batters anyway. Haren throws a ton of cutters and splitters, and velocity doesn't matter quite so much with those. Last season didn't look great, he's 31, and there are some injury concerns with his back, but he's only one year removed from a 6 fWAR season (4 bWAR). Gut reaction-wise, I'm more than happy to take that for a volatile reliever who will be paid close to $10m next year that has walked roughly 6.25 batters per nine innings over the past three seasons. 

    Let's take a look at the projections for each of these guys anyway. As far as I know, there aren't any projections out yet that use 2012 season data, so I'll stick with the Oliver long term forecasts from The Hardball Times. I know that Oliver updates rest of season stats weekly, but I'm not sure if it also updates the multi-year forecast (reading between the lines on that projection, I think the answer is yes). Here are Haren and Marmol's 2012 predictions with their hopefully old teams

      IP K BB HR ERA WAR
    Haren 209 172 39 27 3.96 1.4
    Marmol 57 76 38 4 3.96 0.4

    Of course, this doesn't take into account the change in leagues, as well as (maybe) last year's stats. Marmol is only going to look worse with a shift to the better hitting league, while Haren is only going to look better. From what I remember, the usual shift between leagues is 0.5 WAR. Thus, based on this projection Haren would be worth 1.9 WAR and Marmol -0.1, a clear win for the Cubs.

    But what about the money? Marmol is due $9.8m next year, and Haren will be due $15.5m. I'll assume that the Cubs take on the full amount, though if the Angels kick in some more, even better. Last year the $WAR was about $5m per win, according to fangraphs (though if you go by Indians GM Mark Shapiro, it's closer to $9m). Anyway, I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume there will be a lot more inflation than usual due to the new CBA, and guesstimate $WAR at $7m per win. In that case, Marmol has a net value of $-10.5m to the Angels, while Haren has a net value of $-2.2m to the Cubs. Obviously, you can adjust these factors as you see fit ($WAR, or Haren's projection due to his struggles last year), but it's hard to adjust them enough to conclude that this isn't a huge win for the Cubs. 

    I seem to be on an island with this one, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Cubs renoegotiate the deal and sign Haren to a reasonable extension. There's still some upside there (6 fWAR in 2011), and from a negotiation standpoint his value has never been lower. He might not be the ace that he was before, but I think he can still be a quality pitcher in the NL. Plus, it's not like players like Jason Berken, Casey Coleman, Chris Rusin, and Brooks Raley are going to be knocking the door down to edge him out of the rotation. 

    UPDATE:

    Per Robothal, it seems like all we know for sure has happened is that the Cubs have asked Marmol to waive his NTC. No deal has been agreed to.

    UPDATE 2:

    UPDATE 3:

    Multiple sources are now saying that the deal is not happening. Blech.

    UPDATE 4:

    Apparently it was the CUBS that axed the deal. Fuck the heck?

    Berselius
    He's got a two day head start on you, which is more than he needs. He's got friends in every town and village from here to the Sudan, he speaks a dozen languages, knows every local custom, he'll blend in, disappear, you'll never see him again. With any luck, he's got the grail already.
    Berselius

    49 Responses to “Cubs Trade Marmol to California Angels of Disneyland for Dan Haren?”

    1. Berselius 1 Berselius says:

      Post already updated twice (dying laughing)

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    2. Rice Cube 2 Rice Cube says:

      Carlos Marmol rhp
      3 years/$20M (2011-13)

      3 years/$20M (2011-13)
      signed extension with Chicago Cubs 2/14/11 (avoided arbitration, $5.65M-$4.1M)
      11:$3.2M, 12:$7M, 13:$9.8M
      1 year/$2.125M (2010)
      re-signed by Cubs 2/4/10 (avoided arbitration, $2.5M-$1.75M)
      performance bonuses: $50,000 each for 55, 60 games finished
      1 year/$0.575M (2009)
      re-signed by Cubs 2/25/09
      award bonuses
      1 year/$0.43M (2008)
      1 year (2007)
      re-signed by Cubs 3/07
      1 year (2006)
      contract purchased 11/05
      signed 1999 as amateur free agent from the Dominican Republic
      agent: Barry Praver
      ML service: 5.084

      Where the hell is the NTC?! I guess I should find the original press release for his extension…

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    3. Rizzo the Rat 3 Rizzo the Rat says:

      deleted

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    4. Rice Cube 4 Rice Cube says:

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/02/cubs-marmol-agree-to-three-year-deal.html

      I am not seeing this no-trade clause. I feel like this is something I should remember.

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    5. Berselius 5 Berselius says:

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    6. SVB 6 SVB says:

      Josh–the Kevin Smith youtube you posted in the last thread was hilarious. Best laugh I’ve had in a week. Thanks

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    7. Rice Cube 7 Rice Cube says:

      http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=6120813

      Marmol, whose arbitration hearing was scheduled for Tuesday, is scheduled to earn $3.2 million in 2011, $7 million in 2012 and $9.8 million in 2013. The deal also includes a limited no-trade clause, and $1 million of the $3.2 million owed to Marmol for the 2011 season will be paid as a bonus before the season, according to a source.

      Well poop.

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    8. 8 Srbutch5 says:

      I love this trade. Numbers aside, I still love this trade.

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    9. Aisle424 9 Aisle424 says:

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    10. 10 akabari says:

      So…Marmol was blindsided, I assume?

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    11. Aisle424 11 Aisle424 says:

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    12. Berselius 12 Berselius says:

      Gordo says that Mamol has signed off on the deal, moments later Muskat says the deal is “not happening”

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    13. Aisle424 13 Aisle424 says:

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    14. Berselius 14 Berselius says:

      More people saying the deal is off. FFS.

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    15. mikeakaleroy 15 mikeakaleroy says:

      So now we must kill Marmol to rid ourselves of him.

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    16. josh 17 josh says:

      @ SVB:
      I had the same reaction.

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    17. Berselius 18 Berselius says:

      Maybe they didn’t like Haren’s medicals

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    18. mikeakaleroy 19 mikeakaleroy says:

      @ Berselius:
      He better be missing a fucking arm.

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    19. Berselius 20 Berselius says:

      @ Aisle424:

      Would not be surprised to see the Trib run that headline tomorrow (dying laughing)

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    20. Rice Cube 21 Rice Cube says:

      @ Berselius:
      That could be. Would be interesting to have been a fly on that wall.

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    21. Berselius 22 Berselius says:

      /Consoles self with freshly seasoned and grilled beer brat and a New Belgium tallboy.

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    22. mikeakaleroy 23 mikeakaleroy says:

      @ Rice Cube:
      I’m sure Dempster was listening in. Just ask him.

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    23. Berselius 24 Berselius says:

      @ mikeakaleroy:

      No way, he was blindsided

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    24. Berselius 25 Berselius says:

      The Angels have ~1.5 hours to trade Haren, or make a decision on his option

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    25. Berselius 26 Berselius says:

      Now people are complaining on twitter that this is a pattern with the Cubs. Never mind that it was the Braves and Marmol who spilled the beans, not the FO.

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    26. Rizzo the Rat 27 Rizzo the Rat says:

      Carlos Marmol side by side Jose Veras, a reliever so valuable MIL just outrighted him to AAA.Gotta love saves. fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?p…— David Cameron (@DCameronFG) November 3, 2012

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    27. SVB 28 SVB says:

      @ Berselius:
      I reiterate what I said during the Dempster business. Twitter is never a reliable source. Too many people want to “scoop” and tweet before doing due diligence, or thinking.

      Twitter is the tool of the fucking Hope Monster. Look what he did to you all today.

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    28. josh 29 josh says:

      @ SVB:
      For shame!

      FOR SHAAAAAMEE!!

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    29. Rice Cube 30 Rice Cube says:

      SVB wrote:

      Twitter is the tool of the fucking Hope Monster.

      GLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR LARBUDDY LARBUDDY

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    30. Rizzo the Rat 31 Rizzo the Rat says:

      Wikipedia still says Haren is a Cub. I choose to believe that and disregard the Twitter rumors that the trade was called off. Twitter is unreliable, after all.

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    31. GBTS 32 GBTS says:

      Whether it can be reconstructed is unknown, but like a typical Marmol outing, it’s never over until it’s over.

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    32. josh 33 josh says:

      @ Rizzo the Rat:
      Totally. Wikipedia has never let me down.

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    33. Rice Cube 34 Rice Cube says:

      @ GBTS:
      We have 19 minutes. And that’s just creepy (dying laughing)

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    34. Rice Cube 35 Rice Cube says:

      The other rather slim possibility is that the Cubs wanted to see if the Angels would flinch (it’s now 11 PM Central) so since the option at this point was either exercised or bought out, now the Cubs can give Haren whatever $ they want to allocate and keep Marmol…

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    35. josh 36 josh says:

      It sounds like the Cubs killed the deal. I’m all right if they killed it, because it means there was something wrong either with the money LA wanted, or with Haren.

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    36. josh 37 josh says:

      @ Rice Cube:
      Yeah, I’m thinking they must have called LA’s bluff, now that he’s been declined. It’ll be interesting to see if they pick him up now.

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    37. Suburban kid 38 Suburban kid says:

      @ SVB:
      Twitter already ruined Spring Training. It was only a matter of time before it killed the hot stove.

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    38. mb21 39 mb21 says:

      @ Rice Cube:
      We can sign him as a free agent and keep Marmol. And Vitters!

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    39. WaLi 40 WaLi says:

      What the fuck. Last I saw we traded Marmol for Haren and this morning I check Facebook and see Tim’s fucking “Dewey defeats Truman” photo and knew something was off.

      Fucking Cubs. Not saying it’s the Cubs fault but shit just always happens to be in orbit around wrigley field.

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    40. JonKneeV 41 jtsunami says:

      WaLi wrote:

      What the fuck. Last I saw we traded Marmol for Haren and this morning I check Facebook and see Tim’s fucking “Dewey defeats Truman” photo and knew something was off.

      Fucking Cubs. Not saying it’s the Cubs fault but shit just always happens to be in orbit around wrigley field.

      Don’t be mad. The only reason I can think of why the Cubs would make the deal and then back out is because of Haren’s medicals.

      They can still sign him and not lose a draft pick. And if the medicals are that bad he will be cheap.

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    41. Rizzo the Rat 42 Rizzo the Rat says:

      Wow, I had the weirdest dream last night. Everyone was all excited about how the Cubs traded Marmol for Haren.

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    42. 43 Perkins says:

      Haren made comments that he and his wife had gotten themselves excited that Chicago would be a good place for a year. Maybe Thoyer wanted to sign him to an extension and he had no interest in that.

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    43. Rizzo the Rat 44 Rizzo the Rat says:

      Colin’s Transaction Analysis of a trade that didn’t happen: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=18829#126684

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    44. Rizzo the Rat 45 Rizzo the Rat says:

      Watching Carlos Marmol try to close out a game is a lot like watching an execution by firing squad where the riflemen have been given the blindfolds instead of the condemned man.

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    45. Rizzo the Rat 46 Rizzo the Rat says:

      Chicago’s pitching staff in 2012 was a reenactment of the Charge of the Light Brigade—a bunch of young conscripts, totally unprepared, were sent out against a much better prepared force and took heavy losses as a result with little to show for it. A diminished Haren still shows good odds of improving on that.

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    46. GBTS 47 GBTS says:

      @ Rizzo the Rat:
      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)
      (dying laughing)

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    47. Hi there, I enjoy reading all of your article post.

      I like to write a little comment to support you.

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