From MLBTR: The Cubs have acquired first baseman Anthony Rizzo and right-hander Zach Cates from the Padres for right-hander Andrew Cashner and outfielder Kyung-Min Na, the teams announced. The move provides the Cubs with a potential long-term first baseman and clears up first base in San Diego.
Here’s my quick take on the trade. I don’t think as highly of Rizzo as a lot of people do and I didn’t think as highly of Cashner as some did. I know little about the prospects as I begin writing this. An every day first baseman for a guy who might be a starter with injury troubles seems like a pretty good deal. When you factor in Cashner’s workload over the last 6 years, the injury he’s coming back from, it may even be likely that he’s a future reliever. Cashner didn’t have great numbers at the minor league, but was pretty good. Let’s look at the numbers now.
CAIRO is not a fan of Rizzo. It projects just over 400 PA and has him hitting .213/.289/.363, which is good for a .289 wOBA and 0.1 WAR. Oliver projects a .254/.325/.461 line over 562 PA. That’s good for a .339 wOBA and 0.8 WAR. Bill James projects a .318 wOBA. The average here is about .5 WAR.
CAIRO projects .2 WAR for Cashner while Oliver projects 1.1 WAR for Cashner and Bill James projects a ridiculous 3.36 FIP. That’s getting thrown out because it’s nowhere near a reasonable projection. Cashner had a 4.45 average projection a year ago so it’s ridiculous that one could come back at 3.36 this year. Between the other two, it’s an average .7 WAR.
Oliver has Cashner being worth 5 WAR over the 5 remaining years he’s under club control. It has Rizzo being worth 5.9 WAR. The Cubs and Padres swapped league minimum players with similar service time who are projected to be worth nearly the same amount of the next 5 years. Let’s just call this a wash. Maybe a slight edge to the Cubs given that Rizzo can play every day.
Kyung-Min Na reached AA at the age of 19, but so far in his career the outfielder has hit just .244/.335/.284. Cates doesn’t appear to be a lot better than that either. Neither prospect has much value going forward so the deal is basically this:
Cashner and his potential upside as a starting pitcher for Rizzo and his potential upside as an every day 1st baseman. Rizzo had the better minor league career and he’s younger. Despite that, this is a trade I neither like nor dislike. I’m not convinced that Bryan LaHair wouldn’t be more valuable over the next 5 years than Rizzo will be. In fact, Oliver has LaHair being worth 5.2 WAR over the next 5 years so just barely worse than Rizzo.
I like it.
On it’s face, this is a great deal, IMO.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker&utm_campaign=Linker&id=cates-002zac
118 IP, control issues, lots of K’s, age 22 season coming up. Seems okay to me compared to what was given up.
4BB/9, 8.5K/9, 2.09K/BB
Rizzo was horrific in a short trial with SD last year…and still posted a OPS+ higher than Koyie Hill’s. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Snyds01]4BB/9, 8.5K/9, 2.09K/BB[/quote]Yeah, I was looking at the wrong column. Mea culpa, mea culpa.
[quote name=dylanj]I never liked Rizzo that much[/quote]
Don’t worry. I have a feeling he’ll get his…
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Rizzo was horrific in a short trial with SD last year…and still posted a OPS+ higher than Koyie Hill’s. (dying laughing)[/quote]Dude’s 22. Between him and Vogelbach, the Cubs could potentially have 1B on lockdown for several years.
Anyone else notice how the two moves that have taken place in the last week have been absolutely stealthy? there was no sniff of either until it was done or physicals pending. I like that the FO can keep a secret, but this does not bode well for rampant rumor mongers…
[quote name=GBTS]Dude’s 22. Between him and Vogelbach, the Cubs could potentially have 1B on lockdown for several years.[/quote]Yeah, I like the deal. I just found it hilarious that even in a terrible stint in the majors, he managed a (very slightly) higher OPS+ than Koyie.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, I was looking at the wrong column. Mea culpa, mea culpa.[/quote]
You can have dinner, but no dessert.
Pretty convenient that on the day that Castro has this thing take off, the Cubs decided it is a good day to trade for a “future star 1B”
good point Snyds. Gives the masses something else to talk about
So, I wonder if this means the the Padres want to try Cashner as a starter.
My guess is that Lahair is still opening day 1st baseman
[quote name=8volumesthick]My guess is that Lahair is still opening day 1st baseman[/quote]
nothing left for Rizzo to prove in AAA. Has to be hard to hear the GM say your the guy and 2 days later trade for a 22 yr old star prospect
Sort of like how he talked about how Z would have to earn his way back to the team right before trading him to Miami.
though there is always the chance that Lahair plays LF. As terrible as that would be it couldn’t be worse than Soriano
if Theo talks about you in the media you’re a goner
Is Rizzo the guy who had cancer?
[quote name=dylanj]if Theo talks about you in the media you’re a goner[/quote]Kiss of Death.
[quote name=GBTS]Is Rizzo the guy who had cancer?[/quote]Pretty sure, y eah.
http://www.fox5sandiego.com/sports/kswb-go-anthony-rizzo-2-14-11,0,788704.story
[quote name=GBTS]Is Rizzo the guy who had cancer?[/quote]
So basically if the Red Sox draft you, you’re going to get cancer.
Anyway, I’m sure Cashner looks forward to pitching in Petco, just as Rizzo looks forward to hitting in Wrigley.
[quote name=AndCounting]Pretty sure, y eah.[/quote]No wonder they had to trade Z before bringing in Rizzo.
[quote name=dylanj]nothing left for Rizzo to prove in AAA. Has to be hard to hear the GM say your the guy and 2 days later trade for a 22 yr old star prospect[/quote]
seems strange that they would treat him any differently than Brett Jackson but…
Regardless this deal is really good. Potential everyday first baseman for a probably reliever.
[quote name=MLBTR commenters]Scott Wisniewski
NO NO NO. I am sure Rizzo can be good. But why trade Cashner?? Come on man….the guy HAS AN ARM…….I thought he had the best potential, better the Jeff Samardzija!!! Clearly you do NOT want Fielder!!!! Cashner could be a very good starter. Now he can be for someone else. I dislike this trade!
Why not trade Garza and Soriano to a team like the Orioles or Red Sox??? Surprise me even more, Theo!
(Edited by author 15 minutes ago)
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17 minutes ago 1 Like
Thomas Wilson
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Welcome to alone[/quote]
Welcome to alone (dying laughing)
(dying laughing) @ 7 comments after new shit.
Pace of news —-> fast
Ye gods. Don’t trade Cashner, he has an arm, but get rid of Chopped LIver Garza over there, the bum. (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing) Oh, BCB, never change.
Rizzo is not the one with cancer
Soo… what’s the logical next piece of news to drop today? I vote Soriano announces he’ll retire one year early but only if the Cubs don’t trade him.
So the Padres trade Matt Latos and Rizzo
They get back Younder Alonso and Cashner as the centerpieces.
They must really like the secondary prospects because thats a step back on both fronts
[quote name=fang2415]Soo… what’s the logical next piece of news to drop today? I vote Soriano announces he’ll retire one year early but only if the Cubs don’t trade him.[/quote]Whatever it is, I’m betting the next big news is that either Soriano or Garza has been dealt.
[quote name=fang2415]Soo… what’s the logical next piece of news to drop today? I vote Soriano announces he’ll retire one year early but only if the Cubs don’t trade him.[/quote]I think that would make my day.
rizzo will be arrested for murder within a month
[quote name=8volumesthick]seems strange that they would treat him any differently than Brett Jackson but…
Regardless this deal is really good. Potential everyday first baseman for a probably reliever.[/quote]
Theo yesterday (or 2 days ago) on the interview with Kaplan was talking about how he doesn’t believe in AAAA guys. He said if you can hit at every level you’re bound to figure it out at the ML level. Rizzo was a monster as a 21yo in AAA, he’s going to get a full season to prove he can hit at the ML level. Especially because the Cubs are going to suck in 2012, there’s no reason NOT to let the kid scrap if he has to.
This is an awesome deal. A pitcher with rotator cuff issues who hasn’t been stretched out in several years and is likely a bull-pen guy for the foreseeable future for a hitter who ranks in the top 20 as a prospect AND fills a glaring hole for this off-season.
SD must be POSITIVE $ner is healthy and ready to be stretched out. That, or they made a boneheaded deal.
[quote name=dylanj]So the Padres trade Matt Latos and Rizzo
They get back Younder Alonso and Cashner as the centerpieces.
They must really like the secondary prospects because thats a step back on both fronts[/quote]Yeah. Odd moves on paper.
[quote name=dylanj]rizzo will be arrested for murder within a month[/quote](dying laughing)
That would fit the bill.
[quote name=dylanj]So the Padres trade Matt Latos and Rizzo
They get back Younder Alonso and Cashner as the centerpieces.
They must really like the secondary prospects because thats a step back on both fronts[/quote]
In a way this reminds me of the Matt Capps/Wilson Ramos deal (Mauer at catcher? hehe). The Padres significantly devalued Rizzo by trading for Alonso and basically had to move one of Blanks, Rizzo, Guzman.
[quote name=dylanj]rizzo will be arrested for murder within a month[/quote]The person he’ll murder will be Theo.
[quote name=fang2415]The person he’ll murder will be Theo.[/quote]And the Cubs will then send Rizzo to the Red Sox as compensation.
[quote name=fang2415]The person he’ll murder will be Theo.[/quote]And Ricketts will replace Theo with FPM Steve Stone
[quote name=fang2415]The person he’ll murder will be Theo.[/quote]funsucker
[quote name=dylanj]rizzo will be arrested for murder within a month[/quote]
I bet a prison guard kills him.
I’m guessing payroll is no longer going to be 135M unless there is some unexpected big payroll move coming up that i missed.
Padres announce Cashner to pitch as a RP.
Wow. They must have really not liked what they saw from Rizzo vs major league pitching. As much as I like Cashner you don’t trade Rizzo for a RP.
TheCCO ChicagoCubsOnline
(@BNightengale) Cashner will pitch in relief for #Padres according to GM Josh Byrnes #mlb
Bizarre deal…
I updated this thread
[quote name=dylanj]Padres announce Cashner to pitch as a RP.
Wow. They must have really not liked what they saw from Rizzo vs major league pitching. As much as I like Cashner you don’t trade Rizzo for a RP.[/quote]
Except “they” is current Cubs GM Jed Hoyer…..
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]
[/quote]Somehow I feel this is appropriate for today’s news
If Cashner remains a reliever, I like this trade, though it leaves the Cubs’ bullpen in a bad way.
[quote name=ACT]If Cashner remains a reliever, I like this trade, though it leaves the Cubs’ bullpen in a bad way.[/quote]S’alright, they won’t have many leads to protect anyway.
[quote name=GW]I like it.[/quote]It’s one of those former top prospect for former top prospect deals that rarely happens. In that sense it’s interesting. I’m not excited. I don’t like it or dislike it.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]TheCCO ChicagoCubsOnline
(@BNightengale) Cashner will pitch in relief for #Padres according to GM Josh Byrnes #mlb
Bizarre deal…[/quote]Well, to be fair, Cashner was more than likely a reliever anyway. I mentioned it recently, but i think any team would be nuts to use him as a starter at this point. You’ve got at least 2 years of working him up to an acceptable number of innings at which point he’s past his prime. It’s a waste.
[quote name=mb21]Well, to be fair, Cashner was more than likely a reliever anyway. I mentioned it recently, but i think any team would be nuts to use him as a starter at this point. You’ve got at least 2 years of working him up to an acceptable number of innings at which point he’s past his prime. It’s a waste.[/quote]
I jsut think Rizzo has more value than Cashner. Much more. I am sure you have numbers saying I am dumb though
The Shire is reporting that Rizzo will start in AAA.
[quote name=dylanj]So the Padres trade Matt Latos and Rizzo
They get back Younder Alonso and Cashner as the centerpieces.
They must really like the secondary prospects because thats a step back on both fronts[/quote]They also got Yasmani Grandal and Edinson Volquez. Volquez isn’t much, but Grandal has been impressive. .888 minor league OPS through age 22 and he’s a catcher. Soto had a .787 career minor league OPS and was rated 47th in baseball entering the 2008 season (monster year in 2007, but that was in the PCL).
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I jsut think Rizzo has more value than Cashner. Much more. I am sure you have numbers saying I am dumb though[/quote]He does. 5.9 WAR projected over 5 years to Cashner’s 5.
BruceMiles2112 Bruce Miles
Hoyer says Cubs saw Cashner as a reliever and that they liked idea of trading for an everyday player. #Cubs
BruceMiles2112 Bruce Miles
#Cubs Hoyer says he sees LaHair opening at first base and Rizzo at AAA Iowa; said he did Rizzo no favors with call-up in 2011
Tim, when is the WTF ready to listen to? I didn’t get a chance to listen to it live, but am curious about what you guys have say today.
[quote name=mb21]He does. 5.9 WAR projected over 5 years to Cashner’s 5.[/quote]
I bet when we look at that projection in a few years we will find it bizarre.. I mean this kid has killed the ball at every level while being young. I am estatic.
[quote name=JMan]I’m guessing payroll is no longer going to be 135M unless there is some unexpected big payroll move coming up that i missed.[/quote]They’re going to pay Koyie HIll $35 million to return.
So you get Rizzo and let your 28 year old “prospect” start.
Best case: LaHair hits the shit out of the ball, but given his age is still not likely to be a part of any contending team in 3-4 years, so they trade him for a younger, not quite ready for MLB prospect to a team that needs a bat and Rizzo takes over.
Worst case: LaHair sucks and he gets sent down or cut. He never had any trade value as a 28-year old unproven “prospect” anyway, so no big loss and Rizzo takes over.
[quote name=mb21]Tim, when is the WTF ready to listen to? I didn’t get a chance to listen to it live, but am curious about what you guys have say today.[/quote]http://www.blogtalkradio.com/wrigley-talk-friday/2012/01/06/wrigley-talk-friday
Should be ready now.
[quote name=mb21]Tim, when is the WTF ready to listen to? I didn’t get a chance to listen to it live, but am curious about what you guys have say today.[/quote]It’s mostly Julie going on in legalese and me and Adam doing fart noises in the background.
[quote name=mb21]He does. 5.9 WAR projected over 5 years to Cashner’s 5.[/quote]
I dunno. I think projections on Rizzo are tough to take seriously at this juncture. He’s twenty-fucking-two. I think the upside here has to be much, much higher.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I bet when we look at that projection in a few years we will find it bizarre.. I mean this kid has killed the ball at every level while being young. I am estatic.[/quote]I wouldn’t say he killed it. Basically an .830 OPS prior to his call-up and ridiculously ridiculous season in AAA: http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=rizzo-001ant
He was very young for his level, which is a good sign, but he’ll have to hit a lot better than he did prior to 2011 to be of much value at 1st base at the big league level.
[quote name=Aisle424]So you get Rizzo and let your 28 year old “prospect” start.
Best case: LaHair hits the shit out of the ball, but given his age is still not likely to be a part of any contending team in 3-4 years, so they trade him for a younger, not quite ready for MLB prospect to a team that needs a bat and Rizzo takes over.
Worst case: LaHair sucks and he gets sent down or cut. He never had any trade value as a 28-year old unproven “prospect” anyway, so no big loss and Rizzo takes over.[/quote]Hopefully the Cubs can buy an extra year of service time for when it matters. I don’t much care who starts at 1st base next year to be honest. If they want to put Garza there on days he doesn’t start, go for it.
From another message board
“Very interesting question on fangraphs today: Should the rules be changed so that batting order is set the first time through, rather than being announced prior to the game? There would be a lot more strategy involved if that rule change was put in place.”
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]I dunno. I think projections on Rizzo are tough to take seriously at this juncture. He’s twenty-fucking-two. I think the upside here has to be much, much higher.[/quote]All long-term projections need to be taken with a grain of salt.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]From another message board
“Very interesting question on fangraphs today: Should the rules be changed so that batting order is set the first time through, rather than being announced prior to the game? There would be a lot more strategy involved if that rule change was put in place.”[/quote]I love that idea though I don’t think we’d see a significantly different structure to the order by the season’s end.
[quote name=Aisle424]It’s mostly Julie going on in legalese and me and Adam doing fart noises in the background.[/quote]I’m most looking forward to the fart noises. (dying laughing)
Thanks for the link, AC.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]From another message board
“Very interesting question on fangraphs today: Should the rules be changed so that batting order is set the first time through, rather than being announced prior to the game? There would be a lot more strategy involved if that rule change was put in place.”[/quote]Is that saying that a team can only have one batting order throughout the entire season? That doesn’t sound very fair to me.
TheCCO ChicagoCubsOnline
(@PWSullivan) Jed says they are willing to go through an “adjustment period” w/ a young team cuz when you pass it “it can really explode.”
I could also see us keeping Garza if we dont get what we want. But i could also see us rebuilding through him now.
A top four of Baez, Jackson. Rizzo and whoever we get for Garza is pretty awesome
[quote name=Rice Cube]Is that saying that a team can only have one batting order throughout the entire season? That doesn’t sound very fair to me.[/quote]
No what i think it means is that If the first two guys got on you could choose whoever you wanted to bat next.
[quote name=mb21]Hopefully the Cubs can buy an extra year of service time for when it matters. I don’t much care who starts at 1st base next year to be honest. If they want to put Garza there on days he doesn’t start, go for it.[/quote]
yeah, keeping him down for a while seems like the right play
[quote name=mb21]All long-term projections need to be taken with a grain of salt.[/quote]
Of course, of course. Just sayin…I think when considering the upside, there is much to like about this deal and almost silly to look at Rizzo projections at the ML level right now unless he wins the job out of ST.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]No what i think it means is that If the first two guys got on you could choose whoever you wanted to bat next.[/quote]Ooooh, so the first time through the order you just set the lineup however you want and then it’s set for the rest of the game. I like that now.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=rizzo-001ant
Something I’ve been wondering for a while. What is the league average split between BA and OBP? I always thought the shorthand was 60pts, but that was several years ago. Rizzo’s split is 70 pts consistently through the minors, and oddly jumped to 140 in the Majors. Sample size, right?
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]Of course, of course. Just sayin…I think when considering the upside, there is much to like about this deal and almost silly to look at Rizzo projections at the ML level right now unless he wins the job out of ST.[/quote]I don’t disagree, but I had to do something. (dying laughing)
ChiTribRogers Phil Rogers
Hoyer says Bryan LaHair and Rizzo were two best hitters in minors last season. But unlikely both can syay in same organization long.
[quote name=26.2cubsfan]http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=rizzo-001ant
Something I’ve been wondering for a while. What is the league average split between BA and OBP? I always thought the shorthand was 60pts, but that was several years ago. Rizzo’s split is 70 pts consistently through the minors, and oddly jumped to 140 in the Majors. Sample size, right?[/quote]I’m not sure what it is in the minors. Probably 60 points. Yeah, it’s a sample size issue. Or maybe he just got better.
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]I bet a prison guard kills him.[/quote]I thought they already did?
Was Na a highly rated prospect?
[quote name=Mac]Was Na a highly rated prospect?[/quote]Nah
[quote name=mb21]I’m not sure what it is in the minors. Probably 60 points. Yeah, it’s a sample size issue. Or maybe he just got better.[/quote]
Found it, 65 points last year. I forgot the internet has these kinds of answers
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting
(dying laughing) @ Adam in WTF. Julie talking about the report and how she read it as Castro drugging the girl and Adam breaks in with the news of the trade. (dying laughing)
Which means theya re in no way allowing a manager to play LaHair in Left Field…
I wonder if that question was asked in interview proces.. How do you feel about putting slow first basemen in LF?
http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/josh-byrnes-padres-general-manager-joined-mlb
Byrnes discussing the trade.
[quote name=Aisle424]http://siriusxmsports.posterous.com/josh-byrnes-padres-general-manager-joined-mlb
Byrnes discussing the trade.[/quote]
The host gets a little Archie Bunker when he tries to pronounce Na’s name.
[quote name=mb21]Or maybe he just got better.[/quote]
I give….
[quote name=John Sickels]1) Anthony Rizzo, 1B, Grade B+: Nobody should panic about 128 at-bats. Although he’s not going to hit .300 in the majors, Rizzo should provide plenty of power and walks and I think he’ll make the needed adjustments. Maximum outcome: Ryan Howard. Worst-case: Chris Davis.
[/quote]
pretty decent rating from sickels
Chris Davis is at least entertaining….
From BA
.
You know its very possible we just got a top 20 prospect for Cashner…
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]You know its very possible we just got a top 20 prospect for Cashner…[/quote]Cates must be really good then.
I bet fizzy is in ba s top 20
AC, 424, I enjoyed the podcast. Good work.
[quote name=mb21] Julie talking about the report and how she read it as Castro drugging the girl[/quote]
(drops piece of expensive glassware) um… come again?
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I bet fizzy is in ba s top 20[/quote]He was rated 75h last year, bubbles. He hit the crap out of the ball in AAA, but posted a 51 OPS+ at the big league level. He might be in the top 60 range, but I’d be surprised if he’s in the top 50. No way is he a top 20.
Comment from Gaslight Ball on Rizzo deal:
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
[quote name=gaius marius](drops piece of expensive glassware) um… come again?[/quote]I think she was misinterpreting what she read or trying to read too much into it. All we know is that the woman was supposedly blacked out and woke up with Castro on top of her or something. With so little information we have to reserve judgment. At the same time some people need to wake the fuck up about athletes. It’s really odd, gm. It seems every day i hear or read somewhere about wealthy and powerful people getting away with shit. Then an athlete is accused of something and they jump to their defense. I hope I can jump to Castro’s defense. I really do, but I’m not optimistic.
if he drugged her you would think the cops would find traces of that when she went into the hospital
(dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21]He was rated 75h last year, bubbles. He hit the crap out of the ball in AAA, but posted a 51 OPS+ at the big league level. He might be in the top 60 range, but I’d be surprised if he’s in the top 50. No way is he a top 20.[/quote]I would be shocked if he is not top 30 and is he best first base prospect on minors?
[quote name=mb21]Cates must be really good then.[/quote]So good…
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]Comment from Gaslight Ball on Rizzo deal:
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]
I almost posted that. Amazing.
you know MD that Cates kid had a 3.24 FIP and only allowed 4 HR’s in 120 + IP. He isnt a write off
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I would be shocked if he is not top 30 and is he best first base prospect on minors?[/quote]Scout .com had him at #48.
The only other first baseman ahead of him on their list is Jonathan Singleton (#39) who is only in A ball for Houston.
Brett Jackson is #34 and Hak Ju Lee is #20, BTW
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I would be shocked if he is not top 30 and is he best first base prospect on minors?[/quote]Geovany Soto hit nearly the exact same as Rizzo did last year when Soto was at Iowa in 2007. Soto also excelled with the big league club late in the season. He was a catcher, which is significantly more valuable than 1st base. Soto was ranked 47th entering 2008. Rizzo, playing the least valuable position on the diamond, hit very well in the same PCL and like shit at the MLB level. There is no way he should be in the top 50.
[quote name=mb21]AC, 424, I enjoyed the podcast. Good work.[/quote]Thanks. I’ve been working on my fart sounds over the holidays.
Bubbles might be wrong. Callis had bjax 28 rizzo 42
[quote name=dylanj]you know MD that Cates kid had a 3.24 FIP and only allowed 4 HR’s in 120 + IP. He isnt a write off[/quote]I wouldn’t write him off, but he’s got a lot of work to do and is in all likelihood a reliever. Terrible command for someone at that age and at that level. Good strikeout rate, but both K/9 and BB/9 get worse as players move up the system. So does H/9. Move him to the bullpen and he’ll improve and probably could be OK, but as a starter at this point I don’t think there’s much there.
Wasn’t soto like three years older than rizzo?
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Bubbles might be wrong. Callis had bjax 28 rizzo 42[/quote]And that’s all kinds of messed up. A CF who has hit better than Rizzo being ranked only that much higher? I know Rizzo is young, but come on. The defensive adjustment by itself favors Jackson by 1.75 WAR per 700 PA. Do you realize how much of a better hitter Rizzo has to be to be as valuable as Jackson in CF? It’s why 1st baseman who hit league average are terrible.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Wasn’t soto like three years older than rizzo?[/quote]yes, but catchers age more slowly than any other position because it’s so demanding. 1st base requires little defensive attention.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Bubbles might be wrong. Callis had bjax 28 rizzo 42[/quote]
That’s still two Cubs in the top 50. Not bad.
FWIW (not much) Castro was in Chicago in mid-November: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/8946373-573/carlos-zambrano-hit-in-face-by-line-drive.html
Doesn’t mean anything other than the WBBM report had an error.
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]That’s still two Cubs in the top 50. Not bad.[/quote]Was that last year or this year? i don’t think they’ve posted their top 100s yet.
[quote]BruceMiles2112 Bruce Miles
#Cubs Hoyer says he sees LaHair opening at first base and Rizzo at AAA Iowa; said he did Rizzo no favors with call-up in 2011[/quote
Actually, he did. An inordinate amount of value has been placed on that short stint methinks. If Rizzo stays in AAA all of 2011 he’s probably not a Cub today. At least, not for just Cashner.
Callis just responded to me he has Alonso 41 to rizzo 42.
I don’t see it. Goldstein likes rizzo more
[quote name=mb21]I think she was misinterpreting what she read or trying to read too much into it. All we know is that the woman was supposedly blacked out and woke up with Castro on top of her or something. With so little information we have to reserve judgment. At the same time some people need to wake the fuck up about athletes. It’s really odd, gm. It seems every day i hear or read somewhere about wealthy and powerful people getting away with shit. Then an athlete is accused of something and they jump to their defense. I hope I can jump to Castro’s defense. I really do, but I’m not optimistic.[/quote]
you’d be nuts to be optimistic, though reserved is certainly defensible. in my experience, if it gets this far, it’s worse than you think. as dicaro said, almost no one goes to the police with this as a fabrication. and if the police are still investigating months later, it’s probably not an insubstantial accusation.
why people jump to defend their favorite athletes when they know nothing about them except how they hit a ball is totally beyond me. sports teams are like cults, i guess.
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]If Rizzo stays in AAA all of 2011 he’s probably not a Cub today. At least, not for just Cashner.[/quote]
agreed
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]
Agreed
Anyone want to bet keithblaw doesn’t have bjax in his top 100?
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
my prediction for Mr Castro- he settles in civil court
[quote name=gaius marius]you’d be nuts to be optimistic, though reserved is certainly defensible. in my experience, if it gets this far, it’s worse than you think. as dicaro said, almost no one goes to the police with this as a fabrication. and if the police are still investigating months later, it’s probably not an insubstantial accusation.
why people jump to defend their favorite athletes when they know nothing about them except how they hit a ball is totally beyond me. sports teams are like cults, i guess.[/quote]
I think immediately thinking the worst is not fair either
this is going to be mean but based on the fact that our golden boy is now an accused rapist Anthony Rizzo is going to get cancer again. This franchise actually is snakebit
[quote name=mb21]Was that last year or this year? i don’t think they’ve posted their top 100s yet.[/quote]
Pre-2011 Baseball America had Rizzo at #75 according to bRef.
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]
Great point, SL.
I don’t believe people are jumping to defend as much as we aren’t jumping to conclusions. I’m not gonna burn the man at the stake yet until the facts are revealed.
[quote name=GW]agreed[/quote]
[quote name=dylanj]Agreed[/quote]
No one can argue with me today.
(Except mb. Whose lack of enthusiasm for the deal is ruining mine. Thanks a lot.)
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/cubs-acquire-anthony-rizzo-from-padres/
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]Pre-2011 Baseball America had Rizzo at #75 according to bRef.[/quote]
And then Rizzo OPSed over 1000 in AAA in 2011 as a 21yo. Not sure how much that advances him on the list, but I’d guess it’s worth a few spots…
[quote name=gaius marius]you’d be nuts to be optimistic, though reserved is certainly defensible. in my experience, if it gets this far, it’s worse than you think. as dicaro said, almost no one goes to the police with this as a fabrication. and if the police are still investigating months later, it’s probably not an insubstantial accusation.
why people jump to defend their favorite athletes when they know nothing about them except how they hit a ball is totally beyond me. sports teams are like cults, i guess.[/quote]I think part of the reason people jump to defend their favorite players and blame the victim is because we have a face for the player and no face for the victim. Imagine if Heidi Klum was the known accuser in this case. It changes things.
This doesn’t justify it of course. It’s kind of like why I think people are more critical of baseball players using steroids than football players. In baseball we know what these guys look like. In football we often have no clue because they wear helmets and these huge pads, which distort their figure. We’re more trusting of people when we can see their face. If Heidi Klum was the accuser many fewer people would be calling the victim a lying bitch like I’m sure many have today.
Scout.com has Yonder Alonso at #98. That’s quite a dip.
[quote name=Mac]I don’t believe people are jumping to defend as much as we aren’t jumping to conclusions. I’m not gonna burn the man at the stake yet until the facts are revealed.[/quote]Yeah, I won’t either, but I’ll also recognize that since it’s gone this far and the investigation is still ongoing that it’s quite likely not bullshit. In other words, it’s more probable than not that he’s guilty. That suck, but I don’t find it to be the least bit surprising. Then again, I have a much lower opinion of athletes than most sports fans.
AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
[quote name=Aisle424]Scout.com has Yonder Alonso at #98. That’s quite a dip.[/quote]Alonso hit very well at the big league level while Rizzo didn’t. I think Alonso has the better career ahead of him FWIW. He was the guy I wanted the Cubs to get for Garza. I wouldn’t have traded Garza for Rizzo. it will be interesting to see what happens. Methinks Byrnes job security may depend greatly on these two players.
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, I won’t either, but I’ll also recognize that since it’s gone this far and the investigation is still ongoing that it’s quite likely not bullshit. In other words, it’s more probable than not that he’s guilty. That suck, but I don’t find it to be the least bit surprising. Then again, I have a much lower opinion of athletes than most sports fans.[/quote]Agreed. And I’m not defending him. I’m just hoping it’s not true.
[quote name=26.2cubsfan]And then Rizzo OPSed over 1000 in AAA in 2011 as a 21yo. Not sure how much that advances him on the list, but I’d guess it’s worth a few spots…[/quote]He also OPS+’d 51 at the big league level.
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]No one can argue with me today.
(Except mb. Whose lack of enthusiasm for the deal is ruining mine. Thanks a lot.)[/quote]I probably like the deal overall. Any time you can turn a pitcher into a position player of similar potential you should do so. I really like the potential. The Cubs got better today. They greatly improved their farm system with this acquisition.
[Callis has Baez ranked higher than rizzo too. Means 3 top 50 hitters
[quote name=dylanj]this is going to be mean but based on the fact that our golden boy is now an accused rapist Anthony Rizzo is going to get cancer again while Brett Jackson suffers a stroke and Trey McNutt continues to get blisters. This franchise actually is snakebit[/quote].
[quote name=bubblesdachimp][Callis has Baez ranked higher than rizzo too. Means 3 top 50 hitters[/quote]Baez is about a decade away from the big leagues. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]
Great point.
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]
Of all the shit said today on this site, this was the best point made.
[quote name=mb21]Baez is about a decade away from the big leagues. (dying laughing)[/quote]My thoughts exactly
(dying laughing) (dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21]Of all the shit said today on this site, this was the best point made.[/quote]Yep. It also speaks to the fact that even though front offices have access to an vastly greater array of information than we do, they are still prone to rash decisions based on small samples.
Some choice bits from the fangraphs piece:
Cue conspiracy theories about Hoyer planning this all along. (dying laughing)
So, what the hell do the Cubs give up for Theo compensation? And do they owe Whale’s Vagina compensation too for Hoyer?
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yep. It also speaks to the fact that even though front offices have access to an vastly greater array of information than we do, they are still just people, flawed like the rest of us..[/quote].
[quote name=bubblesdachimp][Callis has Baez ranked higher than rizzo too. Means 3 top 50 hitters[/quote]
This makes me happy.
[quote name=mb21]Baez is about a decade away from the big leagues. (dying laughing)[/quote]
The Cubs are a decade away from contending. (dying laughing)
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I think immediately thinking the worst is not fair either[/quote]
true. allow me to speculate: something happened, and she didn’t want it to happen or want it to happen the way it happened. but these are drunk kids and there’s room for confusion.
maybe he let lust get the better of him. maybe he’s a predator. or maybe he was just really confused about what she wanted. none of us will ever know. and then there’s what can be proven. which is probably not much. and then there’s what’s legal — you guys have already been quoting statute.
about the only thing you know for certain is that it is something of a dumb risk for any person to get into a one-night stand — the more you have to lose, the more true that is. (not that it stops everyone.) starlin’s about to learn some very precious lessons along those lines.
[quote name=mb21]Of all the shit said today on this site, this was the best point made.[/quote]
[quote name=mb21]I think part of the reason people jump to defend their favorite players and blame the victim is because we have a face for the player and no face for the victim.[/quote]
really good point.
just to show how people see things different- i am on the opposite side of tea leaf reading than GM-
If the police had a good case they would have got the kid in November. If he drugged her that would be found in the hospital
[quote name=Mish].[/quote]Exactly.
[quote name=gaius marius]true. allow me to speculate: something happened, and she didn’t want it to happen or want it to happen the way it happened. but these are drunk kids and there’s room for confusion.
maybe he let lust get the better of him. maybe he’s a predator. or maybe he was just really confused about what she wanted. none of us will ever know. and then there’s what can be proven. which is probably not much. and then there’s what’s legal — you guys have already been quoting statute.
about the only thing you know for certain is that it is something of a dumb risk for any person to get into a one-night stand — the more you have to lose, the more true that is. (not that it stops everyone.) starlin’s about to learn some very precious lessons along those lines.[/quote]
I think a lot of this is true. Kids make dumb decisions when drunk. I am not putting this past him since I don’t know him. But at the same time I just find this so bizarre. I mean starlin was here in November.
yeah, dj, i’m totally speculating. you might be dead right.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Exactly.[/quote]I’ve posted many “.” in this thread, to which do you refer? (dying laughing)
You know it is a big fucking news day when both ccd AND gm come around.
[quote name=dylanj]just to show how people see things different- i am on the opposite side of tea leaf reading than GM-
If the police had a good case they would have got the kid in November. If he drugged her that would be found in the hospital[/quote]
Yea I think this is true. Also let’s say she was drugged. I wonder how you prove starlin did it. Like I always watch my gfs drinks when we go out.
[quote name=Mish]I’ve posted many “.” in this thread, to which do you refer? (dying laughing)[/quote]Yes.
[quote name=Aisle424]You know it is a big fucking news day when both ccd AND gm come around.[/quote]
and/or a really slow post-holiday friday that is moving with mind-numbing slowness. :^)
[quote name=Aisle424]You know it is a big fucking news day when both ccd AND gm come around.[/quote]It sucked that I had to travel earlier today. I missed an hour and a half of baseless rape speculation and overanalysis of a trade that may end up containing non-entities.*
*I really like Rizzo but if I have to bet Player X will succeed or fail, I’d probably take fail 999/1000.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yes.[/quote]Correct.
Balder thinks rizzo and Alonso are pretty similar.
I just don’t get it. I think that is an insane over reaction to a few big league at bats at 21
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Balder thinks rizzo and Alonso are pretty similar.
I just don’t get it. I think that is an insane over reaction to a few big league at bats at 21[/quote]
To me, the concern is over some of the mechanics of his swing, which glancing thru the scouting reports, seems to be a common theme. I think he’ll be fine but who knows. Vitters supposedly had one of the purest swings and look where that’s got him.
[quote name=Mish]It sucked that I had to travel earlier today. I missed an hour and a half of baseless rape speculation and overanalysis of a trade that may end up containing non-entities.[/quote]
that hole in your soul will never be filled, man. i pity you.
I think he takes walks though. I don’t know. What he did at aaa last year was lahairish but 6 years younger and his first time. Borderline unheard of
Hopefully that’s the only lesson he has to learn because I’m pretty sure the guys in prison will teach him an entirely different one.
[quote name=gaius marius]that hole in your soul will never be filled, man. i pity you.[/quote]Well maybe I can have Starlin fill another one of my holes, then.
/terrible rape joke’d
[quote name=Mish]I’ve posted many “.” in this thread, to which do you refer? (dying laughing)[/quote]
Technically speaking, ” . ” is a pretty good point.
Forget all that. Every player on the team is bitten by poisonous snakes after a reptile infestation is discovered in Wrigley.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]From another message board
“Very interesting question on fangraphs today: Should the rules be changed so that batting order is set the first time through, rather than being announced prior to the game? There would be a lot more strategy involved if that rule change was put in place.”[/quote]Who wants more strategy involved? I don’t watch a game and think, “this would be a lot more interesting if the manager had more decisions to make.” I like knowing who is coming up to bat and when, and I’m sure the players do, too.
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Yea I think this is true. Also let’s say she was drugged. I wonder how you prove starlin did it. Like I always watch my gfs drinks when we go out.[/quote]
and, as bobby v can testify, castro would never be able to focus long enough to notice something like that
[quote name=ACT]Who wants more strategy involved? I don’t watch a game and think, “this would be a lot more interesting if the manager had more decisions to make.” I like knowing who is coming up to bat and when, and I’m sure the players do, too.[/quote]I know Millar does.
[quote name=Mac]I know Millar does.[/quote]Idiot.
I do think it is hilarious that we all saw the Starlin news and thought “well, there’s what Mish was talking about a couple months ago…” and every journalist in the city was shocked out of their heads. Cracks me up.
This made me chuckle at BTF:
[quote name=Berselius]Forget all that. Every player on the team is bitten by poisonous snakes after a reptile infestation is discovered in Wrigley.[/quote]
Snakes While They’re Playin’?
[quote name=Aisle424]I do think it is hilarious that we all saw the Starlin news and thought “well, there’s what Mish was talking about a couple months ago…” and every journalist in the city was shocked out of their heads. Cracks me up.[/quote]If only I had the lack of integrity/ethics to start loudly repeating an unsubstantiated rumor all over the interwebs when I first heard the news…
[quote name=Mish]If only I had the lack of integrity/ethics to start loudly repeating an unsubstantiated rumor all over the interwebs when I first heard the news…[/quote]When was that? I’ve been trying to find the post.
[quote name=Aisle424]When was that? I’ve been trying to find the post.[/quote]That was like October or November.
[quote name=Aisle424]When was that? I’ve been trying to find the post.[/quote]I found out on October 3 around 11:20 AM. I’m sure I posted itsoon after that (and I only posted it here).
[quote name=Aisle424]I do think it is hilarious that we all saw the Starlin news and thought “well, there’s what Mish was talking about a couple months ago…” and every journalist in the city was shocked out of their heads. Cracks me up.[/quote]Well, those stumblebums can’t even keep up with the team’s transactions, let alone the police blotter.
[quote name=Mish]I found out on October 3 around 11:20 AM. I’m sure I posted itsoon after that (and I only posted it here).[/quote]Holy crap that’s a good memory (dying laughing)
[quote name=Rice Cube]Holy crap that’s a good memory (dying laughing)[/quote]Email timestamps ftw. (dying laughing)
here’s a question for GM since he seems to understand the debt service stuff
Our payroll is going down in the near future- everyone we have traded for is cost controlled and we aren’t making any big FA moves. So money will be saved there
We now have limits on the draft so money will be saved there
If the Cubs are saving good money for the next few years would they be able to use it to service & pay debt down so in 3-4 years when these guys are getting extended or in arbitration we can raise payroll & go after FA to contend and still handle the debt load?
What is our bullpen at this point?
Marmol
Wood
Shark
Russell
Gaub
Dolls
Mateo?
Did we resign rodrigo Lopez?
Found it, Aisley.
http://www.obstructedview.net/articles/major-league-baseball/series-preview-st-louis-cardinals-90-72-vs-philadelphia-phillies-102-60.html#comment-54801
From that thread:
[quote name="[quote name=cdw]I’m just glad he raped someone soon enough that the Cubs can sign a SS in the offseason.[/quote]Mish”]Ok guys, this is just an email I got from a co-worker just now….[/quote][quote name=GBTS]Everyone remember that even if no charges are brought against Starlin Castro, that doesn’t mean that Mish’s source wasn’t contemplating charges at the time this e-mail was sent.[/quote][quote name=Berselius]Another thirdhand report re castro
https://mobile.twitter.com/#!/Mwhobear/status/120922985409413120/quotequote name=GBTS]This “breaking news” comes from “Ross Reichart,” who has tweeted a whole four times on non-baseball issues in the past two months.[/quote][quote name=GBTS]I would imagine that if nothing officially happens today this will pretty much be forgotten. But yeah, fuck that Mwhobear guy. “Breaking news” of a rape on Twitter, attributed to his buddy.[/quote]
I also see some posts by me in reaction to a Rangers/Rays game that the Rays lost, so yeah, that was a bad thread. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Mish]Found it, Aisley.
http://www.obstructedview.net/articles/major-league-baseball/series-preview-st-louis-cardinals-90-72-vs-philadelphia-phillies-102-60.html#comment-54801/quoteThis is all your fault.
[quote name=GBTS]This is all your fault.[/quote]Mish sold Roofies to Castro?
[quote name=Mish]Found it, Aisley.
http://www.obstructedview.net/articles/major-league-baseball/series-preview-st-louis-cardinals-90-72-vs-philadelphia-phillies-102-60.html#comment-54801/quote
That whole thread is pure win.
(Except for Mish ending up being right about the rape and stuff)
Since this was in that thread, and will forever need to be reposted:
We should have redundant posts again.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]We should have redundant posts again.[/quote].
Melissa hopes we all get dick cancer for posting redundant posts.
Non-baseball, but I’m already getting sick of the daily “Who’s the better team in the East: the Bulls or Heat” since everyone is going to (rightly) answer the Heat every day.
[quote name=Mish].[/quote].
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder].[/quote]Redundant post is redundant.
I would think Rizzo’s walk rate would a be lot higher since his strike zone must be a bitch to find.
Convo at BTF talking about whether some of the lack of interest in Fielder may make Milwaukee a player for him at their original offer (not sure how the Aramis contract complicates that). If that ends up happening, the Brewers would emerge as a clear best team in the division, 50 Braun-less games and all.
Rizzo’s twitter handle, for those interested:
https://twitter.com/#!/TheRizzMan27
[quote name=Mish]Rizzo’s twitter handle, for those interested:
https://twitter.com/#!/TheRizzMan27/quoteJosh doesn’t think he’s very hot.
Sickels
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/1/6/2687814/prospects-in-the-andrew-cashner-anthony-rizzo-trade
[quote name=mb21] If Heidi Klum was the accuser many fewer people would be calling the victim a lying bitch like I’m sure many have today.[/quote]Glad you used fewer instead of less this time, but “many fewer” is very awkward.
Local NBC 5 just ran a story about Castro. Couple interesting points:
1) Repeated the claim that Castro has not been back in the states since the alleged assault. Attorneys said his departure was planned days earlier
2) Showed a statement from the accuser’s attorney which said there is physical evidence that indicates non-consensual sexual activity.
Summarized here: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Castro-Attorneys-Can-Assault-Allegations-Baseless-136806763.html
[quote name=Aisle424]Josh doesn’t think he’s very hot.[/quote]
but he is fully on board with his taste in music:
He also enjoys…Florida!
Huh.
I’m also a little upset that Starlin was at Crescendo. That place fucking blows.
*sigh*
[quote name=GBTS]Local NBC 5 just ran a story about Castro. Couple interesting points:
1) Repeated the claim that Castro has not been back in the states since the alleged assault. Attorneys said his departure was planned days earlier
2) Showed a statement from the accuser’s attorney which said there is physical evidence that indicates non-consensual sexual activity.
Summarized here: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Castro-Attorneys-Can-Assault-Allegations-Baseless-136806763.html/quoteI'm beginning to think Starlin Castro is in deep shit.
[quote name=GBTS]*sigh*[/quote]Someone should invite him to come over their place at 3 a.m.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Someone should invite him to come over their place at 3 a.m.[/quote]Oh my god, its a woman.
What the fuck is wrong with people?
[quote name=GBTS]Oh my god, its a woman.
What the fuck is wrong with people?[/quote]I…got nothin’
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I’m beginning to think Starlin Castro is in deep shit.[/quote]Without knowing how the process goes it seems a bit suspect that he hasn’t been charged yet. But that might be because he hasn’t returned from the DR.
What a shitty situation.
actually mo when you read that entire article the end part seems favorable to Castro.
[quote name=GBTS]Oh my god, its a woman.
What the fuck is wrong with people?[/quote]I don’t know, but where were the girls like that when I was single?
Sources close to the investigation pointed to the fact that no one has attempted to even speak with Castro during the three months which have elapsed since the initial allegation was made.
You would think if the police had something they would have requested this by now
Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Castro-Attorneys-Can-Assault-Allegations-Baseless-136806763.html#ixzz1ij4ZttQa
[quote name=dylanj]actually mo when you read that entire article the end part seems favorable to Castro.[/quote]If there’s physical evidence of rape, he’s in deep shit.
Julie pointed out today that it’s not uncommon for the police to take this long. If charges are filed I fully expect Castro to be traded.
Never seen the list that long before, especially at this time of day/week.
/Blog statfag’d
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]If there’s physical evidence of rape, he’s in deep shit.[/quote]The woman’s attorney says that while Castro’s says the claims are baseless. I don’t know what to think. That article didn’t really bring us any additional information except that one side is claiming there is physical evidence. If that is true, Castro is fucked. And that’s a good thing.
[quote name=dylanj]Sources close to the investigation pointed to the fact that no one has attempted to even speak with Castro during the three months which have elapsed since the initial allegation was made.
You would think if the police had something they would have requested this by now
Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Castro-Attorneys-Can-Assault-Allegations-Baseless-136806763.html#ixzz1ij4ZttQa/quoteEvery investigation is different. There are a hundred explanations for why they have not contacted Castro. And it’s not like he’ll be hard to find in a month or so. Plus there’s an extradition treaty in place with DR, so there’s no need for them to rush anything.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Every investigation is different. There are a hundred explanations for why they have not contacted Castro. And it’s not like he’ll be hard to find in a month or so. Plus there’s an extradition treaty in place with DR, so there’s no need for them to rush anything.[/quote]Julie pointed out that if the police did want to charge him at this point they’d have to have the governor contact the DR. Why not just wait until he’s back in town?
At the time of the draft in 2010:
.
[quote name=mb21]Julie pointed out that if the police did want to charge him at this point they’d have to have the governor contact the DR. Why not just wait until he’s back in town?[/quote]Yeah there’s just so much we don’t know right now, it’s almost pointless to speculate about motives and what any particular action might mean. There was an incident, and the police have been investigating that incident for 3 months. That’s all we know.
if the police had physical evidence they would have asked Castro to interview. They haven’t. I am a huge fanboy for Castro so I really really dont want this to be true but honestly at this point I don’t see anything to make me believe this is serious (the alleged crime is of course)
[quote name=dylanj]Sources close to the investigation pointed to the fact that no one has attempted to even speak with Castro during the three months which have elapsed since the initial allegation was made.
You would think if the police had something they would have requested this by now
Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Castro-Attorneys-Can-Assault-Allegations-Baseless-136806763.html#ixzz1ij4ZttQa/quoteYou would think, but they may have just typed up their report on an invisible typewriter.
[quote name=dylanj]if the police had physical evidence they would have asked Castro to interview. They haven’t. I am a huge fanboy for Castro so I really really dont want this to be true but honestly at this point I don’t see anything to make me believe this is serious (the alleged crime is of course)[/quote]There’s no way you can draw the inference. The police can take as long as they need before questioning him. Hell, just because there is physical evidence doesn’t mean that physical evidence has even been processed. The Cook County crime lab is notoriously backlogged. So the police may not even know what the physical evidence says or they may have just found out what the physical evidence says, ot maybe the physical evidence points to someone who was staying at Castro’s place…there’s just so much we don’t know that any inference made from some isolated action (or failure to act) is going to be illicit.
^^^^(dying laughing)(dying laughing)(dying laughing)(dying laughing)(dying laughing)^^^
(dying laughing) at the gif, not slow police response to rape.
[quote name=GBTS](dying laughing) at the gif, not slow police response to rape.[/quote]Amusing, but wrong.
[quote name=GBTS](dying laughing) at the gif, not slow police response to rape.[/quote]It may not be slow response. Could very well be problems at the crime lab. I have friends in CPD and they’ve told me that cut-and-dry cases can take months and sometimes more to come to trial because it takes so long for physical evidence to get processed. And that’s for simple shit like prints and drug tests. A rape kit is a whole different story.
And the huge backlog at the crime lab? Rape kits: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/02/18/state-police-vow-to-eliminate-rape-kit-backlog/
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]There’s no way you can draw the inference. The police can take as long as they need before questioning him. Hell, just because there is physical evidence doesn’t mean that physical evidence has even been processed. The Cook County crime lab is notoriously backlogged. So the police may not even know what the physical evidence says or they may have just found out what the physical evidence says, ot maybe the physical evidence points to someone who was staying at Castro’s place…there’s just so much we don’t know that any inference made from some isolated action (or failure to act) is going to be illicit.[/quote]
Or maybe they have the physical evidence, wanted to interview him, but the governor declined to contact the DR since Castro will be back in town. We don’t know. I agree. the police not doing anything to this point doesn’t mean anything.
Julie talked about this on WTF. In Chicago a husband or boyfriend can beat their GF or wife half to death and an arrest warrant won’t be issued. If he’s picked up for something else he will be charged.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It may not be slow response. Could very well be problems at the crime lab. I have friends in CPD and they’ve told me that cut-and-dry cases can take months and sometimes more to come to trial because it takes so long for physical evidence to get processed. And that’s for simple shit like prints and drug tests. A rape kit is a whole different story.[/quote]Anybody who has ever watched any of the various crime shows on tv sees how long it can often take to build a case to the point where it’s important to interview the suspect and then arrest him or her. 3 months is nothing.
Especially for someone out of the country.
Yea, MO I just saw a lawyer on Tribune Live say there is an incredible amount of rape back-logs.
In Cook County, that is.
[quote name=Rodrigo]Yea, MO I just saw a lawyer on Tribune Live say there is an incredible amount of rape back-logs.[/quote]Yeah, it’s been that way for years. The story is only just now being reported.
The Cubs are going to trade for Brian Roberts?
Where does this hack come up with this shit.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-could-soriano-be-next-cub-to-go-20120106,0,2160126.story
[quote name=mb21]Anybody who has ever watched any of the various crime shows on tv sees how long it can often take to build a case to the point where it’s important to interview the suspect and then arrest him or her. 3 months is nothing.[/quote]
False. On CSI, that shit is over with in about 40 minutes.
[quote name=Rodrigo]The Cubs are going to trade for Brian Roberts?
Where does this hack come up with this shit.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-could-soriano-be-next-cub-to-go-20120106,0,2160126.story/quoteConsidering that whatever his source is once told him Paul Byrd was a power hitter…
[quote name=26.2cubsfan]False. On CSI, that shit is over with in about 40 minutes.
[quote name=26.2cubsfan]False. On CSI, that shit is over with in about 40 minutes.
It’s going to be hard for her to reenter the pageant….without a face
Oh god, I just read a few comments on the Starlin article on ESPN.com, and I think they represent a new low, even for that site.
Turns out, there are a few misogynists on the internet.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Considering that whatever his source is once told him Paul Byrd was a power hitter…[/quote]
I totally forgot he said that. Makes me laugh every time I see it.
Wow. This seems like a fantastic deal. We’re trading a pitcher that can’t stay healthy for one of the best 1B prospects in baseball.
Better yet, we have a management in place that won’t move him to the bullpen this year.
[quote name=mb21]It’s one of those former top prospect for former top prospect deals that rarely happens. In that sense it’s interesting. I’m not excited. I don’t like it or dislike it.[/quote]
I think it’s a stretch to call Rizzo a former prospect. He’s still 22, and raked in AAA just last year.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Wow. This seems like a fantastic deal. We’re trading a pitcher that can’t stay healthy for one of the best 1B prospects in baseball.
Better yet, we have a management in place that won’t move him to the bullpen this year.[/quote]
Catchers are the only position players that get converted to relievers, and that’s usually only the Latinos…
/old Cubs org’d
[quote name=gaius marius]why people jump to defend their favorite athletes when they know nothing about them except how they hit a ball is totally beyond me. sports teams are like cults, i guess.[/quote]
If the recent actions of the Penn State fan base didn’t teach us that, nothing will.
[quote name=26.2cubsfan]Catchers are the only position players that get converted to relievers, and that’s usually only the Latinos…
/old Cubs org’d[/quote]
Yeah that was a half-assed attempt at mocking the old org for turning Cashner from a starter into a reliever into a starter into a reliever . . .
[quote name=GBTS]Local NBC 5 just ran a story about Castro. Couple interesting points:
1) Repeated the claim that Castro has not been back in the states since the alleged assault. Attorneys said his departure was planned days earlier
2) Showed a statement from the accuser’s attorney which said there is physical evidence that indicates non-consensual sexual activity.
Summarized here: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/Castro-Attorneys-Can-Assault-Allegations-Baseless-136806763.html/quote
The facebook comments under that story are horrifying.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]The facebook comments under that story are horrifying.[/quote]Those show up on their FB feed, right? It’s remarkable what people will say even using their real name. It’s unbelievable. I remember talking about that here about PSU fans. It’s crazy.
From ESPN rumor mill:
It appeared inevitable, but Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that the Chicago Cubs and right-hander Kerry Wood are close to agreement on a one-year contract.
Wood likely serves in the same role he did a year ago — setting up closer Carlos Marmol — though he could get some save chances if Marmol becomes another player the new regime ships out as they rebuild their organization.
Wood made it clear long ago that he wanted to remain with the Cubs and showed no interest, at least we heard or read, in testing the free agent market.
[quote name=mb21]Those show up on their FB feed, right? It’s remarkable what people will say even using their real name. It’s unbelievable. I remember talking about that here about PSU fans. It’s crazy.[/quote]
Yeah only morons post things on the internet using their real name. (dying laughing)
This is from a woman. I don’t know about the rest of you, but when I was younger I had women come over at 3 am and didn’t have sex with them. It happened more frequently than I would have liked.
[quote name=Rodrigo]From ESPN rumor mill:
It appeared inevitable, but Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that the Chicago Cubs and right-hander Kerry Wood are close to agreement on a one-year contract.
Wood likely serves in the same role he did a year ago — setting up closer Carlos Marmol — though he could get some save chances if Marmol becomes another player the new regime ships out as they rebuild their organization.
Wood made it clear long ago that he wanted to remain with the Cubs and showed no interest, at least we heard or read, in testing the free agent market.[/quote]
Signing Wood to a 1-year deal and trading Marmol would represent a masterstroke. If Wood racked up saves and brought them something at the trade deadline, all the better.
[quote name=Rodrigo]From ESPN rumor mill:
It appeared inevitable, but Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe reports that the Chicago Cubs and right-hander Kerry Wood are close to agreement on a one-year contract.
Wood likely serves in the same role he did a year ago — setting up closer Carlos Marmol — though he could get some save chances if Marmol becomes another player the new regime ships out as they rebuild their organization.
Wood made it clear long ago that he wanted to remain with the Cubs and showed no interest, at least we heard or read, in testing the free agent market.[/quote]They have to drop someone from the 40-man before they sign him though.
[quote name=mb21]They have to drop someone from the 40-man before they sign him though.[/quote]
Cashner? Or is Rizzo on the 40-man now?
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Signing Wood to a 1-year deal and trading Marmol would represent a masterstroke. If Wood racked up saves and brought them something at the trade deadline, all the better.[/quote]Marmol doesn’t have much or any trade value FWIW. If the Cubs kicked in some money they could get something decent.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Signing Wood to a 1-year deal and trading Marmol would represent a masterstroke. If Wood racked up saves and brought them something at the trade deadline, all the better.[/quote]I don’t think they can trade Wood…I doubt he wants to be anything but a Cub at this point and would probably retire first. But I’ve been wrong before.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Cashner? Or is Rizzo on the 40-man now?[/quote]Rizzo made his MLB debut last year so he’s on the 40-man. Dropping him would require him being placed on waivers.
This is updated as of a couple days ago: http://www.obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/2012-chicago-cubs-payroll.html
Cross off Cashner and add Rizzo. There are a few guys who could easily be dropped.
They have 3 lefty relievers in Gaub, Beliveau and Maine. I’d guess Maine would be the first to go.
They have 7 outfielders on the 40-man roster and that doesn’t include Brett Jackson. Gotta think a trade is coming at some point. Byrd or Soriano.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Yeah that was a half-assed attempt at mocking the old org for turning Cashner from a starter into a reliever into a starter into a reliever . . .[/quote]
Or the time they sent Zambrano to the bullpen? Or when they tried to turn Dempster into a closer?
Wait, that last one had modest success, mostly because it made him a better starter AFTER the failed experiment…
[quote name=mb21]This is from a woman. I don’t know about the rest of you, but when I was younger I had women come over at 3 am and didn’t have sex with them. It happened more frequently than I would have liked.[/quote]
uh yeah, this. Hell, I’m 27 and still wind up with woman at my house at 3 AM and don’t seal the deal…some of the time (dying laughing)
[quote name=mb21]Marmol doesn’t have much or any trade value FWIW.[/quote]
Maybe not to you. But I would think there are still GM’s out there that would overpay for a “proven closer.”
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Maybe not to you. But I would think there are still GM’s out there that would overpay for a “proven closer.”[/quote]
Especially near the deadline for potential playoff teams without better options.
[quote name=Mish]uh yeah, this. Hell, I’m 27 and still wind up with woman at my house at 3 AM and don’t seal the deal…some of the time (dying laughing)[/quote]
It’s not like it’s uncommon either.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Maybe not to you. But I would think there are still GM’s out there that would overpay for a “proven closer.”[/quote]But if you look at what Heath Bell was paid this offseason, it’s almost exactly what Carlos Marmol is being paid the next two years. Bell is better. I looked at those two a few times over the last two or three years. If teams were willing to overpay for someone, wouldn’t they just throw a couple million extra at Bell and save the prospects. There wasn’t much of a bidding war for his services IIRC.
[quote name=Rodrigo]Especially near the deadline for potential playoff teams without better options.[/quote]If Marmol gets off to a great start like he’s more than capable of then he could be quite valuable at the deadline.
[quote name=mb21]If Marmol gets off to a great start like he’s more than capable of then he could be quite valuable at the deadline.[/quote]
May the great god of small samples judge him favorably to start the year.
[quote name=Rodrigo]Yea, MO I just saw a lawyer on Tribune Live say there is an incredible amount of rape back-logs.[/quote]You don’t know when to keep quiet, do you, Saxy boy?
[quote name=shawndgoldman]May the great god of small samples judge him favorably to start the year.[/quote]
Speaking of, Ronnie Brewer has been outstanding for the Bulls so far this season.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Speaking of, Ronnie Brewer has been outstanding for the Bulls so far this season.[/quote]
He’s really improved his jump shot.
Also inevitable that a writer in Boston would be the one reporting this.
(dying laughing) I don’t know, Jeff. Why do you hesitate to call him a great player? (dying laughing)
FWIW, I don’t necessarily think Deng is a “great player.” I just think it’s a hilarious quote.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]FWIW, I don’t necessarily think Deng is a “great player.” I just think it’s a hilarious quote.[/quote]I think he was right in pimping Deng as extremely unheralded but he didn’t know where to stop.
[quote name=Mish]I think he was right in pimping Deng as extremely unheralded but he didn’t know where to stop.[/quote]
Yeah. And color commentary is not easy. If you talk unscripted for 3 hours straight, you’re bound to say something stupid. All he was really trying to do was be accurate. Still, it’s pretty funny.
[quote name=shawndgoldman](dying laughing) I don’t know, Jeff. Why do you hesitate to call him a great player? (dying laughing)[/quote]
I prefer the local broadcast. Can’t get enough of Stacey King.
[quote name=Rodrigo]I prefer the local broadcast. Can’t get enough of Stacey King.[/quote]
I prefer the broadcast I can get for free on ESPN3 (aka “the Truce.”)
[quote name=Rodrigo]I prefer the local broadcast. Can’t get enough of Stacey King.[/quote]I do too but I don’t mind seeking some Van Gundy here and there. Possibly the only NBA guy on ESPN I like.
The Heat are the better team but this Bulls team is great to watch, especially defensively.
[quote name=shawndgoldman]Speaking of, Ronnie Brewer has been outstanding for the Bulls so far this season.[/quote]
That’s Ronnie Brewer out of Arkansas? I used to watch his dad play when the Razorbacks first put a half-decent basketball team together. Didn’t know he was playing for the Bulls. glad to hear he’s doing well.
/goes back to ignoring pro basketball.
FWIW, Mayo on MLB.com has Rizzo at #18 overall.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2011/
He also has BJax at #29.
Cubs seem to be a Matt Garza haul away from potentially having 4 prospects in the top 50, maybe even top 30.
how the hell do you have a 1B that much higher than a CF who hits like Jackson?
Morning friends! What a weird day yesterday!
I assume we see Soriano and Garza gone before ST.
[quote name=dylanj]how the hell do you have a 1B that much higher than a CF who hits like Jackson?[/quote]My thought exactly. I ran the numbers last night and found that Jackson could have a .335 wOBA and Rizzo would need a .365 wOBA just to be as good as Jackson. It’s of course possible Rizzo ends up better than Jackson, but right now there is no way one could expect him to be better.
Deal with Wood is far from done and Wood is talking to multiple teams: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/cubs-kerry-wood-progressing-toward-one-year-deal.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29
I really don’t see any reason to re-sign him.
Yea I dont see any reason either. We arent going to trade him so who gives a shit
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Yea I dont see any reason either. We arent going to trade him so who gives a shit[/quote]I’m hoping Theo and Hoyer are publicly stating they want him back just to appease the fans. I’m starting to think that may be it because if they really wanted Wood to return I can’t help but think he’d already be back.
I think they realyl do want him back but they also know he doesnt want to leave Chicago. So they are waiting on him to accept their price.
I would welcome Kerry back as marmol insurance and for veteran leadership. I mean he is a good example of playing in Chicago when young and not being on State street every night… I think that is a good guy to have around.
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/1/6/2688854/chicago-cubs-top-20-prospects-for-2012
[quote name=Mish]http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/1/6/2688854/chicago-cubs-top-20-prospects-for-2012[/quote]
System doesnt look too bad minus the pitching. I am interested in Dae Eun Rhee this year
Also IMO no way we arent huge in on Cespedes and Soler right now. I would be shocked if we dont get one. This is a perfect chance for Thoyer to blow a wad on prospects before their money gets stolen from them
Also shockingly Hayden Simpson did not appear on any list. By any person. Ever. Ugh
Reading the Padres Chat on BA.. MB can i post a few things?
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Reading the Padres Chat on BA.. MB can i post a few things?[/quote]
Make an Unobstructed View. mb doesn’t own you. (dying laughing)
Its not important enough for an Unobstructed View…
Jsut a questino and answer…
But one time I posted copyrighted shit and he got madz