Bruce Levine tweeted out the news that the Cubs were close to signing a pitcher! But it’s not Kerry Wood, it’s Paul Maholm. Ken Rosenthal has also now chimed in with a similar tweet, so I would imagine we will get to ask Paul Maholm if he’s excited to be a Cub at the Cubs Convention later this week.
On a scale of positivity, this news falls somewhere between the Cubs trading for a top prospect like Anthony Rizzo and our star shortstop allegedly sexually assaulting someone.
Meanwhile, Kerry Wood and the Cubs may need another lovable former Cub to die so they can get together at the funeral and come to a resolution. Wood reportedly wants $4 million for the year and I can understand why the Cubs wouldn’t want to pay that for a reliever that is likely going to have few leads to protect.
In a vacuum, paying Wood that kind of money doesn’t make sense. He is probably not anywhere close to being worth 1 WAR anymore and that is what he would have to do to earn that money on the baseball field.
But if Wood is sent packing to another team, that is going to rile the fan base who believe that Kerry should have been a lifelong Cub. In their minds, a great wrong was righted last year, and tearing Wood away now will piss them off something fierce. It isn’t rational, but it is there.
Do the Cubs have the luxury of turning off a good number of fans so much that they decide they don’t want Cubs tickets before they even start losing games? Nobody bought tickets to see Wood pitch anymore, but he was a part of their existence as Cubs fans. If you take that away, there really isn’t another player onto which they can cling as the modern Mr. Cub. They may just lose interest.
So I’m not advocating the Cubs sign Wood to the contract, but there is more going on here than just what Wood can provide on a baseball field. Theo knows he’s going to have to do some things that are unpopular and he needs to decide if this is a battle where he wants to stand his ground.
My gut says Wood will end up signing for something like $3.2 million right before the Cubs Convention.
That would kind of suck. We did notice a couple days ago that Ernie Banks was not officially part of the attendees list for the Cubs Convention.
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
Not a fan of Maholm, personally (steep dropoff in velocity, recent injury history, bad against RHB). Still, rotation depth = good.
I like Maholm. Not a great pitcher, but not at all bad either.
Bubbles, I just want to let you know that your fellating of Tebow in the last thread makes me want to punch babies.
(because it needed to be repeated).
Then these fans will complain endlessly when Wood is putting together a mediocre season on a bad team. It will then be a complete waste of money to them.
If he wants to sign for $2 million, sign him. If not, let him go. Tell the public that they worked as hard as possible to re-sign him and that it was Wood who refused to sign.
[quote name=mambochicken]Bubbles, I just want to let you know that your fellating of Tebow in the last thread makes me want to punch babies.
(because it needed to be repeated).[/quote]As long as you don’t rape them, rape women, or take steroids, you’re still not a bad person.
[quote name=mb21]Tell the public that they worked as hard as possible to re-sign him and that it was Wood who refused to sign.[/quote]I don’t think Theo needs to say anything more than what he already has. Certainly nothing that Cub fans could use against him.
(Couldn’t resist.)
Garza
Dempster
Wood
Volstad
Maholm
Wells
F7
Sonnanstine
Anyone else?
McNutt, Jay Jackson
I don’t care much if they sign Wood for more than he’s worth on the field. With all the salary coming off the books this year, what’s an extra $2 million? Also, positive clubhouse presence, fan favorite, etc., etc.
[quote name=mambochicken]Bubbles, I just want to let you know that your fellating of Tebow in the last thread makes me want to punch babies.
(because it needed to be repeated).[/quote]
Mahom has been worth just over 4 rWAR and 7 fWAR the last 3 years. He’s a solid addition to the rotation if he doesn’t cost a shitload.
[quote name=mb21]Then these fans will complain endlessly when Wood is putting together a mediocre season on a bad team. It will then be a complete waste of money to them.
If he wants to sign for $2 million, sign him. If not, let him go. Tell the public that they worked as hard as possible to re-sign him and that it was Wood who refused to sign.[/quote]Wood gets shielded from a lot of that when he doesn’t do well. I don’t know how he does it, but he’s always been coated with teflon.
[quote name=dylanj]Garza
Dempster
Wood
Volstad
Maholm
Wells
F7
Sonnanstine
Anyone else?[/quote]Theo can pitch a few innings in a pinch. He once kicked a 52-yard field goal.
Man, I keep seeing “Wood” in rotation discussions, doing a double-take, and then thinking, “Oh, yeah, Travis Wood.” This could take some getting used to.
[quote name=ACT]I don’t care much if they sign Wood for more than he’s worth on the field. With all the salary coming off the books this year, what’s an extra $2 million? Also, positive clubhouse presence, fan favorite, etc., etc.[/quote]I think $4MM is about the ceiling I would set. They have to still be reasonable about it especially since it’s basically a mascot fee.
Volstand & Wood have options I think. So if Wood sucks he can go hang out in Iowa but he probably has the best upside of anyone there outside of Garza
[quote name=mb21]Mahom has been worth just over 4 rWAR and 7 fWAR the last 3 years. He’s a solid addition to the rotation if he doesn’t cost a shitload.[/quote]His fb velocity and swinging strike percentage have taken a major dip in the last couple years. I worry.
I’m not going to care all that much if they give Wood $4 million, but I’d like the Cubs to not overpay anyone and especially not a reliever.
[quote name=dylanj]Volstand & Wood have options I think. So if Wood sucks he can go hang out in Iowa but he probably has the best upside of anyone there outside of Garza[/quote]I just looked at the service time in the minors and I don’t think either have any options left. Options are tricky and it’s not as simple as what I looked for, but I’d guess they have 1 at the most.
I’d rather the Cubs just sign Wood to a lucrative personal services contract and just make him a Cubs ambassador so Banks can stop doing all the heavy lifting.
[quote name=Aisle424]I’d rather the Cubs just sign Wood to a lucrative personal services contract and just make him a Cubs ambassador so Banks can stop doing all the heavy lifting.[/quote]I like this idea.
[quote name=mb21]I’m not going to care all that much if they give Wood $4 million, but I’d like the Cubs to not overpay anyone and especially not a reliever.[/quote]
They need to get rid of one of Kerry Wood or Travis Wood because this keeps confusing the fuck out of me (dying laughing). I was wondering why Travis fucking Wood would be worth anythign for a personal services contract.
[quote name=mb21]I like this idea.[/quote]
[quote name=Berselius]They need to get rid of one of Kerry Wood or Travis Wood because this keeps confusing the fuck out of me (dying laughing). I was wondering why Travis fucking Wood would be worth anythign for a personal services contract.[/quote](dying laughing) it hasn’t confused me because I haven’t even thought of Kerry Wood as a starting pitcher in more than half a decade. If Travis Wood was a reliever it would be confusing to me.
As this is officially the official active thread, I do want to say I agree with mb’s last thread. Minus the baseball specific stuff, I wonder if you could search/replace Castro with Tebow and see if the article still makes sense (other than the Starlin Tebow references (dying laughing))
[quote name=Aisle424]
[/quote]I am the most cynical man IN THE WORLD.
TWood and KWood, guys. Use it.
[quote name=Mish]TWood and KWood, guys. Use it.[/quote]Don’t tell us what to do.
I prefer tWood and kWood
[quote name=Mish]TWood and KWood, guys. Use it.[/quote]Of course this might be a ploy to keep from having to put the T. and the K. on their jerseys next season…but think of the merchandising!
Serious baseball talk here, but if the Cubs don’t resign Wood, then who’s the 8th inning guy…..Carpenter? F7? Tebow?
This is the 3rd time I’ve asked this question…..somebody answer so I don’t go join Bubbles on the Tebow Taint Tickling Train.
[quote name=Mish]As this is officially the official active thread, I do want to say I agree with mb’s last thread. Minus the baseball specific stuff, I wonder if you could search/replace Castro with Tebow and see if the article still makes sense (other than the Starlin Tebow references (dying laughing))[/quote]As long as Castro is a member of the Cubs I’m going to root like hell for him to be productive. It’s as simple as that for me. I have never understood rooting for someone on your favorite team to fail. I do not have to like a player as a person to root for him to do well on the field. If I did, I wouldn’t be a sports fan.
Worst haircuts in sports: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/the-25-worst-haircuts-in-sports-history
[quote name=Mish]Worst haircuts in sports: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/the-25-worst-haircuts-in-sports-history/quoteWTF?! Is he trying to be a Chia Pet?
[quote name=Aisle424]I prefer tWood and kWood[/quote]T-Woo, K-Woo
[quote name=mb21]As long as Castro is a member of the Cubs I’m going to root like hell for him to be productive. It’s as simple as that for me. I have never understood rooting for someone on your favorite team to fail. I do not have to like a player as a person to root for him to do well on the field. If I did, I wouldn’t be a sports fan.[/quote]Yeah this. I know me and you have been over this many times. I only concern myself with the on-field stuff, so I only care about things that affect the on-field stuff (or the ability to take the field in the first place). I said something once along the lines of “DeNiro could go on a genocidal rampage and he’d be my favorite actor still” (though that was from years ago and DeNiro has added enough dreck to his filmography for me to choose another actor).
nobody knows yet mucker. lets take a wait and see approach
[quote name=Mucker]Serious baseball talk here, but if the Cubs don’t resign Wood, then who’s the 8th inning guy…..Carpenter? F7? Tebow?
This is the 3rd time I’ve asked this question…..somebody answer so I don’t go join Bubbles on the Tebow Taint Tickling Train.[/quote]Shark its gotta be
[quote name=Mucker]Serious baseball talk here, but if the Cubs don’t resign Wood, then who’s the 8th inning guy…..Carpenter? F7? Tebow?
This is the 3rd time I’ve asked this question…..somebody answer so I don’t go join Bubbles on the Tebow Taint Tickling Train.[/quote]I don’t think Wood is an 8th inning guy anymore whether he is on the team or not. As much as it pains me to say it, I think Samardzija pretty much has to be the set-up guy until he fails at it. With Russell against lefties.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/09/would-you-believe-a-hall-of-fame-ballot-with-don-mattingly-and-no-one-else/
Also, false.
[quote name=dylanj]nobody knows yet mucker. lets take a wait and see approach[/quote]That’s my favorite approach.
Could Dempster be the one traded? Doesn’t he only have a year or so on his deal? Maybe he wants to contend again while he’s still a middle of the rotation SP. It would convert another short term asset into something more, possibly.
Dempster should be traded more than Garza imo. The return would be decent as he is a pretty good starter. Plus he has no role in our future where Garza might
but if it were up to me I would trade both
[quote name=dylanj]Dempster should be traded more than Garza imo. The return would be decent as he is a pretty good starter. Plus he has no role in our future where Garza might[/quote]
That’s what I was thinking.Correct.Ooh, rebuilding might just be addictive.
Pretty soon, we’ll be asking each other who’s left from the 2008 roster instead of 2003.
fuck the steelers. i couldn’t be more pleased that tebow et al burned them.
the 2008 team was fun but I’m looking forward to a young team. The last two years have been dead ass teams that were unbearable to watch
I don’t get the adoration for Wood. I mean, 20 K’s in a game? Awesome. Great. Loved it. But I don’t quite understand why people are so passionate about him. Am I missing something? I guess since he’s one of the rare born-and-bred Cubs, that instils some devotion.
Maybe I’m just bitter because homeboy gave up 7 runs in game 7 of 2003. SEVEN! I’ve heard him referred to as a “big-game pitcher” many times, but when you can’t hold a 5-3 lead at home to go to the World Series, you officially forfeit that title forever.
I know, I know…
He was balls in the clincher in Atlanta and you could see he was getting gassed in Game 3 of the NLCS.
He owned it too. He didn’t pass it off. he came right out and said he let everyone down after Game 7. I think that is where he gets a lot of loyalty.
Because he is a good person. He does charity work.
[quote name=Steve Swisher]I don’t get the adoration for Wood. I mean, 20 K’s in a game? Awesome. Great. Loved it. But I don’t quite understand why people are so passionate about him. Am I missing something? I guess since he’s one of the rare born-and-bred Cubs, that instils some devotion.[/quote]
Yeah, he’ll always be the Former Hope Of The Future. Being a Cub fan and watching him pitch is like being a Democrat and watching that SNL where Al Gore gave the State Of The Union Address. I still love watching Wood pitch even when he sucks for that reason.
[quote name=jtsunami]Because he is a good person. He does charity work.[/quote]Well this won the thread.
(dying laughing)
For the record, I love Kerry Wood. He was pretty much why I bought season tickets before 1998. He embodied what I thought the Cubs farm system was becoming.
I’ve never had more fun watching someone pitch. Zambrano was fun to watch PLAY, but Wood was just awesome when he was on. That fastball popped like nobody else’s and that curveball wasn’t fair. It never all came together like we hoped, but that was a glimpse of greatness.
But at this point, I’m happy with the memories and I don’t need to see him in middle relief on a shitty team to keep those memories fresh.
[quote name=GBTS]Well this won the thread.[/quote]
[quote name=jtsunami]Because he is a good person. He does charity work.[/quote]Yes, but that is only 1/3 of the Good Person Formula. Has he raped women or children?
[quote name=Aisle424]He was balls in the clincher in Atlanta and you could see he was getting gassed in Game 3 of the NLCS.
He owned it too. He didn’t pass it off. he came right out and said he let everyone down after Game 7. I think that is where he gets a lot of loyalty.[/quote]
That’s fine, but it reminds me of when Billy Koch blew save after save for the White Sox. The first few times, he totally owned it after the game. He’d put it on himself, say it was totally his fault, he let everyone down, etc. I thought, “Hey, that’s pretty cool.” But after the fourth or fifth time, I was like, “So you’re a stand-up guy. But you also suck as a closer.”
In other words, that’s great that Wood owned it and didn’t put his shitty game on his teammates. Bartman. The weather. Whatever. But seven runs is seven runs. (In less than six innings, btw.)
I’m not trying to hate on the guy. I don’t dislike him. But when I think of players who really capture… something for me, I don’t put him at the top. I’m likely in the minority here — seems most of Cubs Nation is ready to canonize him. I can live with that.
[quote name=Aisle424]For the record, I love Kerry Wood. He was pretty much why I bought season tickets before 1998. He embodied what I thought the Cubs farm system was becoming.
I’ve never had more fun watching someone pitch. Zambrano was fun to watch PLAY, but Wood was just awesome when he was on. That fastball popped like nobody else’s and that curveball wasn’t fair. It never all came together like we hoped, but that was a glimpse of greatness.
But at this point, I’m happy with the memories and I don’t need to see him in middle relief on a shitty team to keep those memories fresh.[/quote]
These are all good points. And I’m not trying to be a dick. I just don’t share that ardor. To me, unfortunately, he’s just associated with disappointment more than anything else. Then again, because of the Cubs’ history, you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who isn’t. (dying laughing)
[quote name=Steve Swisher]These are all good points. And I’m not trying to be a dick. I just don’t share that ardor. To me, unfortunately, he’s just associated with disappointment more than anything else. Then again, because of the Cubs’ history, you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone who isn’t. (dying laughing)[/quote]The thing is, when Wood was healthy, he was probably the most exciting thing about this team other than Sosa. Prior was fucking good, but there was something about his method and demeanor that lacked excitement.
I’m not trying to convince anyone since Wood’s career is overall quite mediocre, but his high points were pretty damn high.
He had 5 playoff starts and he was good in 2, great in 1, average in 1, and shitty in the last one. I’d take those numbers going forward from a pitcher in the postseason any time. He was certainly better than anything we saw from our starting pitchers in 2007 and 2008.
So if wood does not join the bullpen, regardless of price, who else do they attempt to use in the pen? According to Bill James Projections post, this is the Cubs pitching staff:
Sean MarshallAndrew CashnerCarlos Marmol Matt Garza Kerry Wood Ryan DempsterCarlos ZambranoRandy Wells Casey Coleman Jeff Samardzija James RussellI am not saying we need Wood, and I get that why spend on the bullpen if your are rebuilding, but you cant compile a bullpen of Aisley, MB, AC and B, there has to be at least two or three major leaguers….
If you are cutting payroll and saving money in other places what is the harm in bringing in a somewhat stable force both in the clubhouse and on the field for an extra mil. or two?
I heard MB has a 60-mph fastball and Aisley can almost get the ball to the plate, so they might not completely suck.
Wood could easily have become one of the greatest pitchers of all-time if he’d stayed healthy. I also loved watching him pitch and really like having him on the Cubs like 424. At the same time, I just want the Cubs to make a smart decision. If that’s to re-sign Wood @ $4 million to be a team leader, so be it.
I’m a huge Wood fan, so selfishly I want the team to sign him. I don’t really care if they have to spend an extra million or not. They can afford it and I think he means a lot to this team in more ways than just his pitching and dare I say, the *cough* fans.
[quote name=mb21]Wood could easily have become one of the greatest pitchers of all-time if he’d stayed healthy.[/quote]Eh, I doubt it. His command was never nearly as good as his stuff.
[quote name=ACT]Eh, I doubt it. His command was never nearly as good as his stuff.[/quote]Could be. However, only Vida Blue and Clayton Kershaw allowed fewer hits per 9 innings at the age of 21 than Wood has (qualified starters). Interestingly, Babe Ruth is 5th.
[quote name=mb21]Could be. However, only Vida Blue and Clayton Kershaw allowed fewer hits per 9 innings at the age of 21 than Wood has (qualified starters). Interestingly, Babe Ruth is 5th.[/quote]Babe Ruth was a damn good pitcher. I wonder how baseball history evolves if he never switched to being an everyday player.
In 2003, Mark Prior led the league in fWAR, rWAR, and PWARP. And the Cy Young went to a goddamned relief pitcher.
[quote name=ACT]In 2003, Mark Prior led the league in fWAR, rWAR, and PWARP. And the Cy Young went to a goddamned relief pitcher.[/quote]Who was on *gasp* steroids.
I’m kind of glad Prior didn’t win the Cy Young. It would make that even worse. Now I can just pretend like that season never happened and I had no reason to get all worked up over possibilities.
[quote name=Aisle424]I’m kind of glad Prior didn’t win the Cy Young. It would make that even worse. Now I can just pretend like that season never happened and I had no reason to get all worked up over possibilities.[/quote]
Exactly.
They’re making a case for Bernie Williams for HOF on the MLB Network right now. I don’t think he makes it (like, ever) but I wouldn’t be annoyed if he made it. I really liked those Yankees teams.
[quote name=Aisle424]I’m kind of glad Prior didn’t win the Cy Young. It would make that even worse. Now I can just pretend like that season never happened and I had no reason to get all worked up over possibilities.[/quote]
In retrospect I’m grateful we got that one great season out of him. Better than zero, and regardless of the outcome, that 2003 postseason is probably the best couple of weeks I ever had as a Cubs fan. Yeah they blew the 3-1, but to even get as far as they did…pretty remarkable. I haven’t been that excited about Cubs baseball since, not even when the 2008 team was steamrolling through the league.
Ok, Let us reword this question….
With Marmol, Russell, Corpas, Lendy Castillo*, Sonnanstine and F7 in bullpen, that leaves a spot for one or two pitchers, at least a second lefty and possibly another righty.
So who are they?
Looking at it that way, I suppose there is enough depth that in a rebuild there isnt the need for a big presence like I thought, but that is gonna be a rough bullpen.
*Rule 5 Pick Up
Larkin —-> HOF
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]In retrospect I’m grateful we got that one great season out of him. Better than zero, and regardless of the outcome, that 2003 postseason is probably the best couple of weeks I ever had as a Cubs fan. Yeah they blew the 3-1, but to even get as far as they did…pretty remarkable. I haven’t been that excited about Cubs baseball since, not even when the 2008 team was steamrolling through the league.[/quote]Yep, this. The whole 2003 run had a tragic quality to it, which applies to Wood, Prior, Sammy, Alou, Bartman (and by extension the fans)… It was thrilling to watch and I’ll remember it forever, even if the team wasn’t as good as others.
Which incidentally runs slightly counter to MB’s previous post. I think he’s a little unusual in not giving a shit about anything other than how good the team is, although he’s certainly right that other fans get carried away about players’ personal activities. You know, charity work, rape, that kind of thing.
[quote name=Aisle424]Who was on *gasp* steroids.[/quote]Gagne is obviously a bad person.
[quote name=Aisle424]The thing is, when Wood was healthy, he was probably the most exciting thing about this team other than Sosa. Prior was fucking good, but there was something about his method and demeanor that lacked excitement.
I’m not trying to convince anyone since Wood’s career is overall quite mediocre, but his high points were pretty damn high.
He had 5 playoff starts and he was good in 2, great in 1, average in 1, and shitty in the last one. I’d take those numbers going forward from a pitcher in the postseason any time. He was certainly better than anything we saw from our starting pitchers in 2007 and 2008.[/quote]
I guess it’s just that the shitty game came in a Game 7, so it sticks out in my mind. And he hit a fucking homer in that game! Then his curveball become nigh unhittable for a few innings. I actually thought, “Oh my god, they’re going to do it.” Then his curveball flattened out and they started clubbing it all over the place, and… well, you know the rest.
[quote name=Steve Swisher]I guess it’s just that the shitty game came in a Game 7, so it sticks out in my mind. And he hit a fucking homer in that game! Then his curveball become nigh unhittable for a few innings. I actually thought, “Oh my god, they’re going to do it.” Then his curveball flattened out and they started clubbing it all over the place, and… well, you know the rest.[/quote]
No. My VCR ate the tape. What happened? I just assumed they went on to the World Series.
I dunno, I have more good memories of that season than bad these days. Prior, Wood, Z just about anyday they took the mound was the best shit ever. Sosa could still electrify most days. Nabbing Lofton and Ramirez in July was something that seemed unprecedented for the Cubs, that is, getting actual good fucking players at the deadline. And the playoff run itself was fantastic until, ya know, it wasn’t.
One of my hopes is that Theo builds a young core that can generate as much excitement as the one Hendry (briefly) built. I’ll take a WS anyway I can get it, but there’s something exciting about a good team built primarily with guys that come up through the system that a team assembled mostly via free agency can’t hope to match.
The main thing that I remember about the 2003 season was that in a year where Prior, Wood, Z, and Clement were ripping through opposing offenses the two games I went to were started by Juan Cruz and Shawn Estes (dying laughing)
Raines up to 48.7% now. Vote creep probably puts him in eventually.
[quote name=Berselius]Raines up to 48.7% now. Vote creep probably puts him in eventually.[/quote]I think there will be stronger competition on future ballots, though.
New HOF shit: http://www.obstructedview.net/articles/major-league-baseball/barry-larkin-voted-into-hall-of-fame-bbwaa-tells-all-others-to-gtfo.html
[quote name=ACT]I think there will be stronger competition on future ballots, though.[/quote]Plus, he only has so many years left of eligibility (on the writers’ ballot. Not sure how veterans will treat him).
[quote name=Aisle424]No. My VCR ate the tape. What happened? I just assumed they went on to the World Series.[/quote]
They did. It was awesome.
Is there any chance the Cubs might trade Dempster? it would obviously be a better option trading letting go Garza.
I tried to look up yesterday why he mnight not be considered and I guess it’s because he has a full NTC and maybe made it clear he won’t waive it.
BTW I figured out F7 -> spell check ->Shark all by myself. I might very well be the smartest man on this blog. With this new established authority I hereby decree that all talk of fringe sports (i.e. this so called football) is strictly prohibited from now on. It’s just annoying.
[quote name=Snyds01]Ok, Let us reword this question….
With Marmol, Russell, Corpas, Lendy Castillo*, Sonnanstine and F7 in bullpen, that leaves a spot for one or two pitchers, at least a second lefty and possibly another righty.
So who are they?
Looking at it that way, I suppose there is enough depth that in a rebuild there isnt the need for a big presence like I thought, but that is gonna be a rough bullpen.
*Rule 5 Pick Up[/quote]Let me take a look at the roster and think about it for awhile. Doesn’t seem that difficult, but there are a lot of similarly valued players on the roster.