It’s been a few days since we had a post about Matt Garza and since we’re rebranding as the Matt Garza Blog we figured it was time for an update. Jon Heyman says that there is no leader in the trade talks.
There is “no real favorite” in the five-team Matt Garza sweepstakes, according to someone familiar with the talks.
The teams involved the derby for the 28-year-old Cubs righthander at this point are the Yankees, Blue Jays, Tigers, Red Sox and Marlins. With the Cubs seeking young pitchers, it would seem that the Yankees, Blue Jays and Tigers could hold an edge ultimately. The Yankees have Manny Banuelos and Dellin Betances, the Tigers Jacob Turner and the Blue Jays several well-regarded prospects at the lower levels. The Cubs are hoping to improve their young pitching stock, and Garza is the most marketable player they’re willing to deal.
With Jacob Turner available, I’m not sure this is really a tough decision on the Cubs part. Sure, they should try to get as much as possible, but a Turner for Garza straight up trade is more than beneficial to the Cubs. The Detroit News is suggesting it’s not just Turner in the deal.
The Tigers absolutely would be required to include more than Turner in any trade package for Garza. But it is believed multiple prospects, apart from Castellanos, are being offered as the Tigers talk with new Cubs general manager Theo Epstein.
Prior to the 2011 season, this is what Baseball America had to say about Turner (ranked 1 in the Tigers organization and 21st in baseball):
Scouting Report: Turner has the ideal frame for a power pitcher. He throws both two- and four-seam fastballs, sitting at 92-94 mph and peaking at 96. In addition to its easily above-average velocity, Turner’s fastball also has heavy sink. While Turner was polished for a prep pitcher, he was able to carve up high school lineups by simply blowing his heater by hitters, so entered pro ball with secondary pitches that needed refinement. He made strides with both his curveball and changeup in 2010. He throws a 12-6 curve that can get a little short but also shows glimpses of being an upper-70s hammer. His changeup should become at least a solid third pitch, with a chance to be better. Turner throws strikes but will need to sharpen his command within the strike zone as he climbs the ladder. Doing so shouldn’t be a problem because he’s a good athlete with a strong work ethic and relatively clean mechanics, though his delivery could use a little more fluidity. Turner shows terrific savvy and mound presence for his age, mixing his pitches well and rarely gets rattled. He has the swagger scouts want to see in a pitcher projected for the front of a major league rotation. He still has to add the strength to take the ball every fifth day and work deeper into games. He averaged fewer than five innings per start in 2010 and has never pitched in the 7th inning.
Turner earned a cup of coffee last season. I know some have been concerned about his strikeout rate (7.7 per 9), but keep in mind how young Turner is. He’s only 20 years old. He kind of reminds me of Madison Bumgarner. His K/9 in the minors was 8.0, but in the high minors in 2009 and 2010 it was about 6.1 per 9. He was also only 20 years old and the 14th ranked prospect in all of baseball. Bumgarner’s first full season in the big leagues was in 2011 at the age of 21. He struckout 8.4 per 9.
Bumgarner also had terrific control in the minors. He walked only 1.9 per 9 and it’s just over 2 in the big leagues so far. Like Bumgarner, Turner has had very good control, walking only 2.1 per 9 innings. I’m not at all concerned about Turner’s strikeout rate. As with all things minor leagues, age is the most important factor. If he was 24 years old I’d be concerned, but he can’t even legally drink yet.
If the Cubs acquired Turner he would be the top prospect in the Cubs organization. I’m very surprised the Tigers would consider trading him for Garza. If the Cubs really have the opportunity to acquire him they should.
Comments
Drew Smyly is another name to watch if Detroit gets Garza.
dylanjQuote Reply
From previous:
How much longer can ESPN employ Lee Corso? I used to think he was drunk during broadcasts, but now I’m starting to think he’s got Alzheimers or something. He can barely articulate anything. It’s sad more than anything. I know he’s annoying, but I can only see it building into a terrible, live, on-air downfall for him.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
I think the Cubs end up trading Garza to Detroit, Dempster to NYY, and Zambrano to Miami Marlins.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
I think Dempster stays until the deadline.
dylanjQuote Reply
If there’s no favorites and Detroit is offering that, what is everyone offering?
Garza for Yankee Stadium.
Title_BUQuote Reply
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate]From previous:
How much longer can ESPN employ Lee Corso? I used to think he was drunk during broadcasts, but now I’m starting to think he’s got Alzheimers or something. He can barely articulate anything. It’s sad more than anything. I know he’s annoying, but I can only see it building into a terrible, live, on-air downfall for him.[/quote]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Qw05kgF9M
GBTSQuote Reply
The Cubs will have a young rotation outside of Dempster and maybe Z. If Casher starts he really shouldnt go 200 IP. Probably the same with Wood
dylanjQuote Reply
If Cashner is given 200 innings I quit. I can’t imagine Sveum is dumb enough to do that. And if he is then he should be fired after Cashner throws inning 151. If that doesn’t happen then I’m done. Fuck it.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]I think Dempster stays until the deadline.[/quote]I’m on the fence with this one. I used to think this but with him being a FA after this year a team won’t get compensation of acquired at the deadline this decreasing his value. The cubs will get much more now vs at the deadline.
JManQuote Reply
and I’m really high on Cashner still. I really hope they dont stick him in the pen
dylanjQuote Reply
and if Turner is up you have to limit him as well. So they Cubs will def need some veteran arms to eat up innings as well as some depth in AAA for injuries. Andy Sonnanstine come on down!
dylanjQuote Reply
I think Rothschild is a part of why NYY would be a good fit for Dempster, although I may be overestimating that. He was a big part of Dempsters revival in the rotation, and the Yankees really need some rotation depth. Dempster has shown he’s good for a good 200 innings at as a number 3 type.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
Will Theo make Turner pass the bullpen test before we start him?
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]and I’m really high on Cashner still. I really hope they dont stick him in the pen[/quote]
I’m high on Cashner too. I think they need to try to get him about 120 innings this year either from the pen with multiple inning outings or from a few starts. That way he’ll be maybe able to start in 2013. That, or having he and Chris Carpenter as the back end of the bullpen after a trade of Marmol.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
I’ll be surprised if they put Cashner in the rotation. I think part of trading Marshall was that they had Cashner to take the 8th inning.
mb21Quote Reply
100-120 IP is fine for Cashner. He really shouldn’t be looking at 200 IP in 2013 either. The Cubs were so weird about flipping him around between SP and RP that his arm never really built up. His top IP was 100 and that was in 2009
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]The Cubs will have a young rotation outside of Dempster and maybe Z. If Casher starts he really shouldnt go 200 IP. Probably the same with Wood[/quote]
It does seem as though the superfriends are trying to build a rotation for the future. Turner, Wood, Cashner, and Wells make a nice starting core for a few years down the road. It might be rough, and you never know with pitching health (particularly Cashner), but the plan for sustained success is starting to become a little clearer.
How to fix the fucked-ness of the position players is a whole different picture. These guys are shitty….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXaqDcb51tI
26.2cubsfanQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]100-120 IP is fine for Cashner. He really shouldn’t be looking at 200 IP in 2013 either. The Cubs were so weird about flipping him around between SP and RP that his arm never really built up. His top IP was 100 and that was in 2009[/quote]
Agree, he should approach 180-200 until 2014, and he could also be the closer by that point too
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]100-120 IP is fine for Cashner. He really shouldn’t be looking at 200 IP in 2013 either. The Cubs were so weird about flipping him around between SP and RP that his arm never really built up. His top IP was 100 and that was in 2009[/quote]At least he got to throw out of the pen in that magical 2010 season where we were just trying to win ball games.
He also threw a chunk of innings in the AFL in 2009, IIRC.
GBTSQuote Reply
Cashner
2006: 24.2 IP
2007: ??? estimated 70 IP
2008: 74.1 IP
2009: 100.1 IP
2010: 111 IP
2011: 15.1 IP
IMO, the ship has sailed on Cashner being a starter. To work him up to 200 innings in an ethical manner, it’s going to take awhile. After throwing 116.1 innings the last two years, Cashner shouldn’t throw more than 125 innings next year. Anything over 140 would be crazy. Maybe 175 the following year and that’s pushing it. I have no idea what would indicate he’s capable of that kind of workload.
This doesn’t even address his good, but far from great numbers in the minor leagues. I think Cashner could be a really good reliever, but I also don’t think you could ever count on him to stay healthy.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]100-120 IP is fine for Cashner. He really shouldn’t be looking at 200 IP in 2013 either. The Cubs were so weird about flipping him around between SP and RP that his arm never really built up. His top IP was 100 and that was in 2009[/quote]They handled him perfectly until that retarded decision in 2010. Cashner was a closer in college and they worked him up the way they should have. The problem was once he was finally able to go 6 innings they moved him into the bullpen. During this increase, he also landed on the DL.
I don’t think Cashner has the health to remain in the rotation and I think putting him there would be a rather poor decision. That sucks, but I’d rather get whatever value they can out of him and that’s in the bullpen. Hopefully he has a really good year as the setup man and when they trade Marmol he could take over as the closer.
mb21Quote Reply
Cashner threw 19.2 innings in the AFL in 2009 so that’s a total of 120 innings that year.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Cashner threw 19.2 innings in the AFL in 2009 so that’s a total of 120 innings that year.[/quote]Well that changes a ton. (dying laughing)
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Well that changes a ton. (dying laughing)[/quote]Agreed. He should throw no less than 240 innings next year. 280 in 2013 and 355 in 2014.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Agreed. He should throw no less than 240 innings next year. 280 in 2013 and 355 in 2014.[/quote]If he gets to 355 he should accumulate twice as much value as Justin Verlander before his arm jumps out of it’s socket and mutinies. Great plan!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
You’re all crazy. Cashner should try to break Will White’s single-season record of 680 innings pitched.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]You’re all crazy. Cashner should try to break Will White’s single-season record of 680 innings pitched.[/quote]If he breaks that record people will claim he used steroids and there will always be an asterisk next to that record.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]You’re all crazy. Cashner should try to break Will White’s single-season record of 680 innings pitched.[/quote]He might have to learn to throw with his left hand after the right one falls off.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
They need to wring every last drop of value from Cashner while they still can. If his arm dies, it dies a hero.
ACTQuote Reply
Larry Fitzgerald is good at sports:
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I did not get the memo on this.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=ACT]You’re all crazy. Cashner should try to break Will White’s single-season record of 680 innings pitched.[/quote]This was in the 19th century when they still threw underhand and didn’t have curveballs, right?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]If he breaks that record people will claim he used steroids and there will always be an asterisk next to that record.[/quote]False. He’ll get in the Hall of Fame amid hilarious stories about how he cheated all along.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Other fun facts: Will White’s ERA that year was under 2.00. That was good for 1.0 WAR.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I did not get the memo on this.[/quote]False.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
404 runs allowed, 150 earned.
ACTQuote Reply
.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I did not get the memo on this.[/quote]You were kept out of the discussions.
mb21Quote Reply
Apparently, Theo asked the Yankees for Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances AND Manny Banuelos for Garza. I imagine Cashman must have responded, “Theo, you know you don’t work for the Red Sox anymore, right?”
For my part, I think the only reason the Cubs should trade Garza is if somebody significantly overpays. Fuck what he’s worth, deal him only if you get many times that.
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]Apparently, Theo asked the Yankees for Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances AND Manny Banuelos for Garza. I imagine Cashman must have responded, “Theo, you know you don’t work for the Red Sox anymore, right?”
For my part, I think the only reason the Cubs should trade Garza is if somebody significantly overpays. Fuck what he’s worth, deal him only if you get many times that.[/quote]
Yeah, I think a deal that doesn’t bring back one blue chip and a couple of other useful pieces isn’t worth doing. Otherwise, just looks like a straightforward dump to avoid paying the expensive arb years on a player you don’t plan to sign to a long-term deal.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]
For my part, I think the only reason the Cubs should trade Garza is if somebody significantly overpays. Fuck what he’s worth, deal him only if you get many times that.[/quote]
Would he bring back more in midseason when teams are maybe slightly more desperate? Of course by that point his arb salary had been set or he might have been signed to an extension, so maybe not.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Speaking of Breaking Bad, how does Bryan Cranston, Aaron Paul and Giancarlo Esposito all win an emmy this year? They gave, without a doubt, the three best performances on television this past year. Cranston wins Best Actor and maybe it should be a co-best supporting actor win for both the others.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Would he bring back more in midseason when teams are maybe slightly more desperate? Of course by that point his arb salary had been set or he might have been signed to an extension, so maybe not.[/quote]Probably not. He’d be providing less value over a year and a half and he would be paid more per win.
All I really care about is getting value back. Getting more would be great, but if you get an equal amount in return you did just fine.
mb21Quote Reply
Apparently Boras is looking for a 5-year deal for Edwin Jackson. Did something happen with Jackson and he apparently became a good pitcher or something?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Apparently Boras is looking for a 5-year deal for Edwin Jackson. Did something happen with Jackson and he apparently became a good pitcher or something?[/quote]He won a World Series.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Apparently Boras is looking for a 5-year deal for Edwin Jackson. Did something happen with Jackson and he apparently became a good pitcher or something?[/quote]He saw significant increases in PE (Playoff Experience), LSP (Leadership), and RH (Ring-Having). So he’s like, you know, totally awesome and stuff. Also, ninja.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Bleacher Nation rips on Phil Rogers:
http://www.bleachernation.com/2012/01/02/facts-narrative-and-a-nonreason-to-trade-matt-garza/
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Bleacher Nation rips on Phil Rogers:
http://www.bleachernation.com/2012/01/02/facts-narrative-and-a-nonreason-to-trade-matt-garza/%5B/quote%5DIt's nice to see the Tribune still hasn’t dropped the “dark-skinned guys are selfish showboats” meme.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
(dying laughing) What the fuck is it with the Cubs beat writers caring so much about Cubs pitchers and their hitting? It’s bizarre.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21](dying laughing) What the fuck is it with the Cubs beat writers caring so much about Cubs pitchers and their hitting? It’s bizarre.[/quote]Maybe they want the DH too.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21](dying laughing) What the fuck is it with the Cubs beat writers caring so much about Cubs pitchers and their hitting? It’s bizarre.[/quote]They don’t care about the hitting. They only care about whatever fills in the gaps in the reasoning towards the conclusion that all Latino players are hot-tempered, selfish showboats and all black players are angry, white-hating conspiracy theorists.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I always thought Garza looked like a white guy despite his surname.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I liked this article because it reminded me of the wife’s silly (and recently deceased) chocolab…
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/and-we-shall-call-him-swag/
He was a good dog.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I always thought “Garza” sounded more Italian than Spanish, but apparently it is Galician and the name of many Sephardic Jews as well as Catholics who settled in Mexico, per wiki.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]They don’t care about the hitting. They only care about whatever fills in the gaps in the reasoning towards the conclusion that all Latino players are hot-tempered, selfish showboats and all black players are angry, white-hating conspiracy theorists.[/quote]Yeah, but why would they even use hitting as an example? Everybody knows pitchers suck at hitting. It’s weird.
mb21Quote Reply
Is anyone watching college football today? MSU-Georgia looks like closest game right now
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]Apparently, Theo asked the Yankees for Jesus Montero, Dellin Betances AND Manny Banuelos for Garza. I imagine Cashman must have responded, “Theo, you know you don’t work for the Red Sox anymore, right?”
For my part, I think the only reason the Cubs should trade Garza is if somebody significantly overpays. Fuck what he’s worth, deal him only if you get many times that.[/quote]
where did you see that smokestack?
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
Prince Fielder wants to sign with the Cubs: http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/insider-albert-pujols-showed-he-s-human-1.3421208
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate]Is anyone watching college football today? MSU-Georgia looks like closest game right now[/quote]Correct.
Holy cow!
[quote name=mb21]Prince Fielder wants to sign with the Cubs: http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/insider-albert-pujols-showed-he-s-human-1.3421208%5B/quote%5DSeems like speculation to me. When did Fielder ever definitively say he wanted to go to Chicago?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate]where did you see that smokestack?[/quote]
http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/post/_/id/26066/dont-put-out-the-welcome-matt-for-garza-just-yet
Smokestack LightningQuote Reply
[quote name=Recalcitrant Blogger Nate]where did you see that smokestack?[/quote]Probably on MLBTR today
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/boras-seeks-five-years-for-edwin-jackson.html
[quote name=Captain Obvious]
For my part, I think the only reason the Cubs should trade Garza is if somebody significantly overpays. Fuck what he’s worth, deal him only if you get many times that.[/quote]I agree and obviously Theo does as well.
Acquiring a prospect like Turner is all fine and dandy and might be a good deal, but dealing Garza would put the Cubs “rotation” in a horrible shape.
As of now, there’s Dempster, Wells and the 2nd Wood. Z is a big question mark. The only other pitchers that could even be considered for a starting job are Cashner, Shark, Coleman. Together that’s 3,5 starters at max, with no fallback option whatsoever. Rebuild or not, that gives me the creeps. Except for Dempster, none of these pitchers could even be considered a number 3 starter. Probably I’m just too stupid to get it, but if the Cubs really trade away Garza, who on earth is supposed to pitch?
DamageControlFreakQuote Reply
[quote name=Smokestack Lightning]http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/yankees/post/_/id/26066/dont-put-out-the-welcome-matt-for-garza-just-yet[/quote]
The comments in that post remind me that most fans, not just Cubs, are really stupid.
RodrigoQuote Reply
[quote name=Rodrigo]The comments in that post remind me that most fans, not just Cubs, are really stupid.[/quote]
(dying laughing) Nice.
I tend to agree with some of the commenters that the Cubs are shooting for the moon here and I can understand why the Yankees wouldn’t want to give it to them.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Rose Bowl = Tournament of No-Defense
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Blake DeWitt, Jeff Baker, Darwin Barney, Koyie Hill. If the Cubs trade Garza it doesn’t matter who is starting. They’re not going to come close to 70 wins (probably won’t even with Garza). Trading Garza ensure you get the 1st or 2nd pick in next year’s draft.
mb21Quote Reply
Based on everything I’ve been reading I don’t think there’s any doubt that Fielder won’t end up signing with the Nationals.
mb21Quote Reply
If this TD is upheld Oregon and Wisconsin are on pace for a 56-56 game in regulation and infinite OTs.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
The Oregon Duck is going to die after all those pushups.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Based on everything I’ve been reading I don’t think there’s any doubt that Fielder won’t end up signing with the Nationals.[/quote]So then who do you think he’ll sign with?
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]So then who don’t you think he’ll not end up not signing with?[/quote].
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]So then who do you think he’ll sign with?[/quote]I wrote that comment at one point and then came back 30 minutes later and edited it. I meant he will sign with the Nats. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/whats_next_for_blue_jays/9088006?new_post=true
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I wrote that comment at one point and then came back 30 minutes later and edited it. I meant he will sign with the Nats. (dying laughing)[/quote]
||
||
||
V
[quote name=26.2cubsfan]fucked-ness [/quote].
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Pretty inexcusable for Wisconsin to not have a predetermined play there.
GBTSQuote Reply
Ouch.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Fiesta Bowl is a really good game so far.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
Couple drunk rambling thoughts:
1. Congrats to my Gamecocks. 11-2 Great year.
2. Really hope alshon is a bear next year.
3. Anyone have any thoughts on Y2J coming back
4. This is one of the most intelligent boards i have been apart of. Becuase of that I think that sometimes we UNDERVALUE our own prospects/players becuase that is what the numbers tell us they are worth. I look at it this way
s. Matt Garza is an awesome pitcher. He was significantly better than ever before. This is after he has already done well in the AL. That means something. This is a guy that we have for 2 more years AND could be an ace of a contending Cubs team (granted he might cost some more)
1. Which means i think we hold the cards. If you dont want to give up your #1 prospect do not talk to us. If you dont want to give up your #1 then unless you got #2 and #3 get to stepping.
2. I only want to deal with Detroit (turner) Yanks (Montero OR Banuelos and Bettances) Toronto (Gose or Marasnick AND Mcguire) or Miami (Lomo AND Yellich)
Having said that i am probably the dumbest person here. But i jsut think we have an asset that cant be just measured in win shares per year over 2 years.
Go gamecocks Y2J
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
I think both the rose bowl and this fiesta bowl should shutup the anti-rematch people
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
All assets (players) can be measured with wins. Albert Pujols was measured by wins this offseason with his contract. Sometimes a team will overpay, but there’s a reason the Blue Jays and Yankees have backed out. There’s a reason the Red Sox will and the Tigers will too. Expecting to get that kind of return is essentially a decision to keep the player. That’s fine. I don’t really care one way or the other. I think trading Garza could help hurry the rebuild along, but it’s still going to be a very long time before this team contends. That’s true whether they trade Garza or not.
Matt Garza is not an ace. Garza’s true talent is not what he did last year. We know this. We can’t ignore it.
mb21Quote Reply
The market for Garza has already been set. Latos and Gonzalez have 4 years of club control remaining. The average of those 4 years is going to pay him about 50% of their market value. They essentially get 2 years of free production. They are also better than Garza who has 2 years of club control paying him about 70% of his market value. That’s a little more than half a season worth of production for free. Garza is worth nowhere near what was given up for either of Latos or Gonzalez.
That doesn’t mean there isn’t one team out there who won’t give them as much or even more. It just means that he’s not worth it and any team that would give up that much would be insane.
mb21Quote Reply
Overtime anyone?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Stanfurd kicker is going to get some words if they lose.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Wow @ OKSt
Rice CubeQuote Reply
MB,
I think you are correct in a sense. I am not smart enough to do this but can yall do an analysis on the trades Theo made with Boston and Jed made with San Diego to see if they acquired surplus value?
Think it might be interesting to see. If not thats cool as well…
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]I think both the rose bowl and this fiesta bowl should shutup the anti-rematch people[/quote]
defense= important sometimes. Oregon beats the brakes off Stanford AT stanford. LSU handles Oregon on a neutral field.
Mike Gundy’s kid is fat.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
If LSU or Bama plays any other team in the nation they are 14 point favorites at least.. They are that good. No defense was played in either the rose or fiesta bowl
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
All these OSU split title people better hold on and make sure LSU don’t go 14-0.
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
MD is forgetting a key point- Latos is gone. So if you are a team who wants to win now and needs a SP the Cubs have about the best one left. So Theo can use that as leverage
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]MD is forgetting a key point- Latos is gone. So if you are a team who wants to win now and needs a SP the Cubs have about the best one left. So Theo can use that as leverage[/quote]
Agreed.
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Blake DeWitt, Jeff Baker, Darwin Barney, Koyie Hill. If the Cubs trade Garza it doesn’t matter who is starting. They’re not going to come close to 70 wins (probably won’t even with Garza). Trading Garza ensure you get the 1st or 2nd pick in next year’s draft.[/quote]
But that’s exactly the kind of rebuilding I do not get.
Acquiring a prospect like Turner is fine, but he’s still some years away from becoming a MLB regular.
And in the meantime the Cubs have no rotation and sit around with their fingers up their ass, waiting for their one messiah prospect to pan out? Doesn’t make sense to me.
I’m not sure what else make sense though. Building around Garza, as Theo suggested might be a decent option. But since I agree he’s not really an ace, it probably still won’t be enough. But what then? Suffer thru 2012 and hoping to score a top pitcher next offseason? Or wait 3 or 4 or 5 years for some yet-to-be-acquired-talent to emerge? Hell, the outlook for ptiching seems even more frustating than for offense.
DamageControlFreakQuote Reply
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Ouch.[/quote](dying laughing)
Now we just need one more GM to complete the trifecta.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]MD is forgetting a key point- Latos is gone. So if you are a team who wants to win now and needs a SP the Cubs have about the best one left. So Theo can use that as leverage[/quote]But some teams wouldn’t even consider giving up that much for Latos or Gonzalez, dj. If they were to consider it, they’d have done so for the better pitcher. The Yankees wouldn’t give up Nunez and Montero for Cliff Lee.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]MB,
I think you are correct in a sense. I am not smart enough to do this but can yall do an analysis on the trades Theo made with Boston and Jed made with San Diego to see if they acquired surplus value?
Think it might be interesting to see. If not thats cool as well…[/quote]In the trades made between Jim Hendry and Theo Epstein, the Cubs came out ahead.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=DamageControlFreak]But that’s exactly the kind of rebuilding I do not get.
Acquiring a prospect like Turner is fine, but he’s still some years away from becoming a MLB regular.
And in the meantime the Cubs have no rotation and sit around with their fingers up their ass, waiting for their one messiah prospect to pan out? Doesn’t make sense to me.
I’m not sure what else make sense though. Building around Garza, as Theo suggested might be a decent option. But since I agree he’s not really an ace, it probably still won’t be enough. But what then? Suffer thru 2012 and hoping to score a top pitcher next offseason? Or wait 3 or 4 or 5 years for some yet-to-be-acquired-talent to emerge? Hell, the outlook for ptiching seems even more frustating than for offense.[/quote]I think signing Fielder would be a good idea and would hurry the rebuilding process but they don’t seem interested and that. They appear content to suck for several years.
Rebuilding like this makes sense to me though. The Cubs farm system is a joke and with the new CBA they’re not going to be able to improve it much through the draft or international free agency. Trading your star players at the MLB level is the quickest way to do so.
mb21Quote Reply
NFL draft fags: I would very much like for the Chicago Bears to acquire this Blackmon fellow. Where will he be drafted, and how can the Bears adjust their position accordingly?
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]NFL draft fags: I would very much like for the Chicago Bears to acquire this Blackmon fellow. Where will he be drafted, and how can the Bears adjust their position accordingly?[/quote]
I can’t see a scenario where he makes it out of the top 10. Assuming no trades, I think he goes to CLE at 4 or JAX at 5.
Moving from No. 16 to No. 4 would probably require a 2013 first rounder or a 2012 second and third.
Imo, Blackmon is the best of AJ Green and Julio Jones combined.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
ST, tell me you had some part in this:
http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/102812-Shaggy-to-Ticket-City-Bowl-%28UH-v.-Pedo-State%29-FEATURING-PEDO-BEAR-UPATE-It-s-on/page3?s=a0a952941fc76a98607e4f065482d1e9
GBTSQuote Reply
Jerry Angleo fired. Hopefully Ruskell isn’t the replacement.
ABQuote Reply
[quote name=AB]Jerry Angleo fired. Hopefully Ruskell isn’t the replacement.[/quote]Halle-fucking-lujah
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]ST, tell me you had some part in this:
http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/102812-Shaggy-to-Ticket-City-Bowl-%28UH-v.-Pedo-State%29-FEATURING-PEDO-BEAR-UPATE-It-s-on/page3?s=a0a952941fc76a98607e4f065482d1e9%5B/quote%5D
I wish. My involvement is limited to someone using my Mack clap gif in the thread.
That place is awesome, though.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]NFL draft fags: I would very much like for the Chicago Bears to acquire this Blackmon fellow. Where will he be drafted, and how can the Bears adjust their position accordingly?[/quote]He’s a top-5 pick, maybe top-3. Bears have no shot. BUt I want him on the team so damn bad.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]I can’t see a scenario where he makes it out of the top 10. Assuming no trades, I think he goes to CLE at 4 or JAX at 5.
Moving from No. 16 to No. 4 would probably require a 2013 first rounder or a 2012 second and third.
Imo, Blackmon is the best of AJ Green and Julio Jones combined.[/quote]Agreed. It’s a deal the Bears just won’t make.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Firing JA to promote Ruskell would be so Bears.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Alshon Jeffrey is bubbles choice
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
Considering he pitched 12+ innings for the Tigers this year I’d say he’s fairly close to being a regular. In fact should he end up on the Cubs he’d likely be in the rotation for 2012.
JManQuote Reply
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
GBTSQuote Reply
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/fielder-seeking-opt-out-clause.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MlbTradeRumors+%28MLB+Trade+Rumors%29
mb21Quote Reply
The Bears need to draft a OG or two, but this draft is supposed to be deep there, so they can wait until the 2nd and 3rd for that. The 16 pick has to be the best WR available. They must give Jay a competent WR corps to replace the old/dropsy/twitchy/fumbley group they have now.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]That’s awesome.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=JMan]Considering he pitched 12+ innings for the Tigers this year I’d say he’s fairly close to being a regular. In fact should he end up on the Cubs he’d likely be in the rotation for 2012.[/quote]Yeah, I think he’d start out in the Cubs rotation this year. It’s possible they’d send him to Iowa for a couple months, but I think he’s a big part of the rotation in 2012.
mb21Quote Reply
My current mock Top 10 is:
1. IND – Luck
2. STL – Kalil, OT, USC
3. MIN – Claiborne, CB, LSU
4. CLE – Blackmon
5. MIA (trade) – Griffin, QB, Baylor
6. TB – Reiff, OT, Iowa
7. WAS – Richardson, RB, Bama
8. JAX – Kirkpatrick, CB, Bama
9. CAR – Still, DT, PSU
10. BUF – Coples, DE/DT, UNC
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]
I’m so proud to be associated with that site.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
Then why is every major writer talking about the Cubs getting a major package back? Either the teams are insane or you aren’t valuing Garza properly. You said Turner wouldn’t be in the package and he is, you said it would be straight up and the hometown paper is saying its Turner +.
This isn’t a knock on you I’m just saying there seems to be a disconnect with the tools you are using to value Garza and how teams value him.
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]My current mock Top 10 is:
1. IND – Luck
2. STL – Kalil, OT, USC
3. MIN – Claiborne, CB, LSU
4. CLE – Blackmon
5. MIA (trade) – Griffin, QB, Baylor
6. TB – Reiff, OT, Iowa
7. WAS – Richardson, RB, Bama
8. JAX – Kirkpatrick, CB, Bama
9. CAR – Still, DT, PSU
10. BUF – Coples, DE/DT, UNC[/quote]Has Barkley not declared yet? Because anyone that drafts RG3 before him at QB is fucking insane. I love RG3, but Barkley is the goods. I think he could end up being better than Luck.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Has Barkley not declared yet? Because anyone that drafts RG3 before him at QB is fucking insane. I love RG3, but Barkley is the goods. I think he could end up being better than Luck.[/quote]Barkley is going back to school
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]The Bears need to draft a OG or two, but this draft is supposed to be deep there, so they can wait until the 2nd and 3rd for that. The 16 pick has to be the best WR available. They must give Jay a competent WR corps to replace the old/dropsy/twitchy/fumbley group they have now.[/quote]Do you ignore the defense for now? They are getting older and less reliable. They might have one more solid year left in them before they are just plain ordinary and possibly quite bad, depending on injuries.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]Then why is every major writer talking about the Cubs getting a major package back? Either the teams are insane or you aren’t valuing Garza properly. You said Turner wouldn’t be in the package and he is, you said it would be straight up and the hometown paper is saying its Turner +.
This isn’t a knock on you I’m just saying there seems to be a disconnect with the tools you are using to value Garza and how teams value him.[/quote]Most major writers know very little. It’s pure speculation based upon what information they are being given. If the trade is ever completed we can then break it down and determine if the tools being used to determine Garza’s value are correct.
JManQuote Reply
[quote name=bubblesdachimp]Barkley is going back to school[/quote]Ah.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]Then why is every major writer talking about the Cubs getting a major package back? Either the teams are insane or you aren’t valuing Garza properly. You said Turner wouldn’t be in the package and he is, you said it would be straight up and the hometown paper is saying its Turner +.
This isn’t a knock on you I’m just saying there seems to be a disconnect with the tools you are using to value Garza and how teams value him.[/quote]
In the Marshall trade someone thought the Cubs would be getting a top 100 prospect. They didn’t. If I had to guess I’d say it’s the Cubs leaking information about teams willing to part with their best prospects. It’s what they should do in the hopes of getting some other team to offer up just as much. The Cubs demands are apparently quite high and they should be for now. It’s also why teams are dropping out of the race to acquire him. Hopefully a team is dumb enough, but I think with all trades Cubs fans are going to end up being pissed off about what they got in return.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]Then why is every major writer talking about the Cubs getting a major package back? Either the teams are insane or you aren’t valuing Garza properly. You said Turner wouldn’t be in the package and he is, you said it would be straight up and the hometown paper is saying its Turner +.
This isn’t a knock on you I’m just saying there seems to be a disconnect with the tools you are using to value Garza and how teams value him.[/quote]
The teams do seem to be scrambling, which is raising the price above what you would expect. But so much of what we hear is conjecture, so we don’t really know what is actually being discussed.
Maybe the Tigers have seen something in Turner they don’t like so they are trying to sell high while he is still a blue chip prospect. Maybe he has never been discussed, but the Tigers want other teams to think they have so if they don’t get him, it drives up the price for their competitors.
There are so many moving parts, all we can do is apply logic to the value of the players as we know them. Anything else is based on information we don’t have and subject to massive error.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Has Barkley not declared yet? Because anyone that drafts RG3 before him at QB is fucking insane. I love RG3, but Barkley is the goods. I think he could end up being better than Luck.[/quote]
Barkley made the right choice. I think this is the first time I’ve ever said this, but this year’s draft crop looks way better than next year’s. I think Barkley’s probably the fifth-best player overall in this draft, but easily No. 1 next.
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Do you ignore the defense for now? They are getting older and less reliable. They might have one more solid year left in them before they are just plain ordinary and possibly quite bad, depending on injuries.[/quote]The DL is actually quite young and deep (Peppers is old, but otherwise, pretty young and very deep). If they somehow had a shot at a premium DB, then maybe, but you’ve got Grimes, Finnegan and Carlos Rogers all as FA this year, so maybe you go FA at CB. They need to look at LB at some point in the draft, for sure. BUt here’s my take: you have a for-real franchise QB. You MUST surround him with the pieces he needs to succeed. That means you have to draft at OL and WR, because that’s where the most glaring weakness on this team is. If I had to rank the problem areas for the Bears, it’d go like so:
1a. OL
1b. WR corps
2. SS & FS
3. Aging LB corps
4. CB
5. Offensive Coordinator
6. Lovie’s play not-to-lose strategy
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=JMan]Most major writers know very little. It’s pure speculation based upon what information they are being given. If the trade is ever completed we can then break it down and determine if the tools being used to determine Garza’s value are correct.[/quote]The tools used to evaluate his value are correct. The issue is that it only takes one team to give up more than his value. It’s the same thing with free agency. If a player is worth 3 years and $24 million and there happens to be one team willing to pay $36 million it doesn’t mean the methods used to calculate his value were wrong. Over hundreds of trades the projected value going one way will equal the projected value the other way.
I hope I’m wrong, but I think people are latching onto every single name they hear and they’re thinking the Cubs are going to get the single best return for a starting pitcher ever. I hope they do and I suppose it’s even possible, but it’s not likely. You’ll need one team bidding against itself. This is where the Cubs come in. They say the Tigers are willing to part with Jacob Turner even tough it makes no sense and have been unwilling to do so in the past. This gets other teams thinking they have to top that offer if they want him.
mb21Quote Reply
there’s just too many assumptions in your logic
1. You assume that BA’s top 100 is the top 100 for the Cubs front office. They have their own valuation.
2. You use WAR to determine the worth of Latos & predict the value of Garza. Teams have their own metrics
3. I still think you underestimate the fact that there are a handful of teams who have window to win right now and a smaller handful of teams with + SP available. Latos and Gonzalez are gone but Det, NYY and BOS still need to add to get their trophy. They are still going to make a nice offer to try and do that. The Cubs are on the right side of supply & demand on this one and will probably get more than we think.
dylanjQuote Reply
It’s important to point out that traded players perform worse than expected. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that teams who trade players or let their free agents walk know something other teams don’t. It’s especially evident after the first couple of years. The traded players or free agents who switch teams age much differently than the players who aren’t traded or re-sign with the same team.
mb21Quote Reply
If Bairs don’t get Cutty a wideout I riot
bubblesdachimpQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]The DL is actually quite young and deep (Peppers is old, but otherwise, pretty young and very deep). If they somehow had a shot at a premium DB, then maybe, but you’ve got Grimes, Finnegan and Carlos Rogers all as FA this year, so maybe you go FA at CB. They need to look at LB at some point in the draft, for sure. BUt here’s my take: you have a for-real franchise QB. You MUST surround him with the pieces he needs to succeed. That means you have to draft at OL and WR, because that’s where the most glaring weakness on this team is. If I had to rank the problem areas for the Bears, it’d go like so:
1a. OL
1b. WR corps
2. SS & FS
3. Aging LB corps
4. CB
5. Offensive Coordinator
6. Lovie’s play not-to-lose strategy[/quote]
Yeah their DL is probably the best part of the team going forward. The playmakers are all old though. Briggs and Urlacher are getting by more on experience than plain athletic edge now. Tillman has his moments, but is getting worse as time goes by.
I agree that the OL and WR need desperate help, but the defense feels like a house of cards to me, so it may be too late to save this incarnation of the team and we’ll have wasted the best years of the only franchise QB this team has had in my lifetime. I loved McMahon when he was healthy, but Jay is so much better when he’s not running for his life.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]BUt here’s my take: you have a for-real franchise QB. You MUST surround him with the pieces he needs to succeed. [/quote]I approve this message.
GBTSQuote Reply
and its totally possible that I’m way off base and we get peanuts for Garza but I think we end up with Turner + Oliver + scraps
dylanjQuote Reply
What would you like me to do? Write a post later today about how teams are interested in Garza. Then I say, “he’s worth something, but we have literally no fucking clue what some teams would pay to get Garza so just start guessing.”
That’s informative.
I don’t buy teams overpay because they have a window. Teams don’t overpay on the free agent market when they have a window. It’s been researched and they don’t. Why would they give up more in a trade? It’s wishful thinking. I’m hoping along with you that they get way more than he’s worth, but there’s a reason it’s called “way more than he’s worth.”
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]and its totally possible that I’m way off base and we get peanuts for Garza but I think we end up with Turner + Oliver + scraps[/quote]I don’t know if you’ll end up being way off base. Some team may overpay. I have no idea. There are 29 teams and it only takes one. The Cubs have to find that one team willing to overpay. They probably exist, but you’re arguing the Cubs get more for Garza than was given up for Latos and Gonzalez. That makes no sense to me whatsoever.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Yeah their DL is probably the best part of the team going forward. The playmakers are all old though. Briggs and Urlacher are getting by more on experience than plain athletic edge now. Tillman has his moments, but is getting worse as time goes by.
I agree that the OL and WR need desperate help, but the defense feels like a house of cards to me, so it may be too late to save this incarnation of the team and we’ll have wasted the best years of the only franchise QB this team has had in my lifetime. I loved McMahon when he was healthy, but Jay is so much better when he’s not running for his life.[/quote]Yeah, there’s a calculated risk here, but the Ravens have made it work with an old-ish defense. I think Cutler is miles better than Flacco, but Cutler isn’t working with as good and OL or as good a WR corps. The best thing you can do for an aging defense is limit their snaps and a competent offense does just that. But this 10-15 three-and-outs per game shit kills a defense faster than any opposing run game. The best thing the Bears can do for aging skill players on their defense is make sure they have an offense that can A.) sustain drives and win the field position battle and B.) if needed, can win a game all on its own.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Firing JA to promote Ruskell would be so Bears.[/quote]
I remember reading the George McCaskey brought in a bunch of outside experts for drafting and scouting after he took over last year, I’m hoping if he knows how bad the Bears drafting and development had been, he knows how bad Ruskell was in Seattle.
ABQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, there’s a calculated risk here, but the Ravens have made it work with an old-ish defense. I think Cutler is miles better than Flacco, but Cutler isn’t working with as good and OL or as good a WR corps. The best thing you can do for an aging defense is limit their snaps and a competent offense does just that. But this 10-15 three-and-outs per game shit kills a defense faster than any opposing run game. The best thing the Bears can do for aging skill players on their defense is make sure they have an offense that can A.) sustain drives and win the field position battle and B.) if needed, can win a game all on its own.[/quote]Yeah, but I’m keeping my expectations low since I figure the offense will become useful just in time for the defense being unable to stop anybody, and the offense won’t be good enough to win shootouts just yet.
Just my worry, but the O-line HAS to be revamped. I could live with the current WRs if Jay had some fucking time to throw. That would be #1 priority, and then improve the WR corp. The Johnny Knox experiment is over. Roy Williams gone. Hester is a 5th receiver at best. Just return kicks, son.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=AB]I remember reading the George McCaskey brought in a bunch of outside experts for drafting and scouting after he took over last year, I’m hoping if he knows how bad the Bears drafting and development had been, he knows how bad Ruskell was in Seattle.[/quote]Yeah the rumors are that George is a very analytical guy, so it’ll be interesting to see how the process of replacing the GM goes.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=AB]I remember reading the George McCaskey brought in a bunch of outside experts for drafting and scouting after he took over last year, I’m hoping if he knows how bad the Bears drafting and development had been, he knows how bad Ruskell was in Seattle.[/quote]
What is George’s relation to the family? Why wasn’t he put in charge way back when? Too young?
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]What is George’s relation to the family? Why wasn’t he put in charge way back when? Too young?[/quote]He’s the younger brother of the previous chairman and formerly director of the ticket office. He was only moved up when Michael stepped down (or as rumor has it, was told by Virginia that it was time to go).
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]
Rebuilding like this makes sense to me though. The Cubs farm system is a joke and with the new CBA they’re not going to be able to improve it much through the draft or international free agency. Trading your star players at the MLB level is the quickest way to do so.[/quote]
I agree that the Cubs farm system is horrible and that it needs to be restocked heavily. But I don’t feel that shutting down major league operations is the right way to do that.
They will suck for some time now no matter what, but they should try to retain some minimum level of quality, otherwise I don’t see how any prospect or rookie is supposed to learn the ropes when the whole team is just one big clusterfuck.
I think that’s part of the idea why they signed DeJesus and RJ. They’re both cheap, can improve the team, and gives them a lot of flexibility to mix and match the available players (and prospects like Jackson) till they find some winning combination.
DamageControlFreakQuote Reply
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/03/three-more-hall-voters-accuse-jeff-bagwell-of-being-a-juicer/
Paul Sullivan has a HOF vote?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
2012 Reed Johnson :: 1999 Gary Gaetti
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/03/three-more-hall-voters-accuse-jeff-bagwell-of-being-a-juicer/
Paul Sullivan has a HOF vote?[/quote]Sullivan is a serial miscreant. What a worthless shitstain.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Agreed, but I think the question with Garza is about whether or not he improves the team by being a Cub or by being traded. There are arguments for and against. Garza is still relatively young so even signing him to an extension isn’t a bad idea, but you better be contending in a couple years if you do that. That’s where signing Fielder comes in.
It just doesn’t appear the Cubs have any interest in that.
mb21Quote Reply
BAM. Someone should staple that to Sullivan’s ever-burgeoning forehead.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]2012 Reed Johnson :: 1999 Gary Gaetti[/quote]No, Gaetti was a starter. Johnson is just a back-up. Gaetti was expected to produce a lot of offense. Johnson is expected to fill in from time to time. There’s a big difference between these two.
mb21Quote Reply
Sounds like he read this: http://baseballevolution.com/asher/bagwellconspiracy.html
ACTQuote Reply
In other news, I am all for relocating the HOF to Chicago so I don’t have to use a divining rod to get there (dying laughing):
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/03/the-hall-of-fames-attendance-is-in-decline/
Rice CubeQuote Reply
The Cubs were also thinking Gaetti would help the ’99 Cubs contend. I don’t think the Cubs have any dreams about contending in 2012.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]2012 Reed Johnson :: 1999 Gary Gaetti[/quote]Reed isn’t being given a starting job like Gaetti was, but its pretty close.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Reed isn’t being given a starting job like Gaetti was, but its pretty close.[/quote]
I didn’t read every word before commenting. Now that we are allowed to eat dinner, what is the punishment?
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]No, Gaetti was a starter. Johnson is just a back-up. Gaetti was expected to produce a lot of offense. Johnson is expected to fill in from time to time. There’s a big difference between these two.[/quote]I just mean in terms of the dropoff from one year to the next. Anyone expecting Reed to produce anything remotely close to the same ballpark on the same continent in the neighboring galaxy in the same epoch as he did last year should be hit in the head with a tack hammer.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Sounds like he read this: http://baseballevolution.com/asher/bagwellconspiracy.html%5B/quote%5DLisa's rock keeps away tigers.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]The Cubs were also thinking Gaetti would help the ’99 Cubs contend. I don’t think the Cubs have any dreams about contending in 2012.[/quote]How fucking dire was that ’99 Cubs IF: Gaetti, Blauser, Morandini, Grace, around the horn. Four drunken, mediocre white guys.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
You guys should probably invest in a shredder.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]
You guys should probably invest in a shredder.[/quote]You falsely assume I would toss a treasure trove like that in garbage.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Sullivan is a serial miscreant. What a worthless shitstain.[/quote]And Philip Hersh is a flatulent pain in the ass, and a bitch’s bastard’s whore.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]And Philip Hersh is a flatulent pain in the ass, and a bitch’s bastard’s whore.[/quote]My favorite insult in this vein, from John Adams, aimed at Thomas Paine:
“I am willing you should call this the Age of Frivolity as you do, and would not object if you had named it the Age of Folly, Vice, Frenzy, Brutality, Daemons, Buonaparte, Tom Paine, or the Age of the Burning Brand from Bottomless Pit, or anything but the Age of Reason. I know not whether any man in the world has had more influence on its inhabitants or affairs for the last thirty years than Tom Paine. There can be no severer satyr on the age. For such a mongrel between pig and puppy, begotten by a wild boar on a bitch wolf, never before in any age of the world was suffered by the poltroonery of mankind, to run through such a career of mischief. Call it then the Age of Paine.“
I can only aspire to that combination of vitriol and eloquence.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]
I can only aspire to that combination of vitriol and eloquence.[/quote]Suck it.
Aisle424Quote Reply
that shaggy bevo thread about the pedo bear is gold
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Suck it.[/quote]Don’t tell me what to do.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Suck it.[/quote]MO is such a John Adams-wannabe.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Speak of the devil:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/matt-garzas-trade-value/
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]MO is such a John Adams-wannabe.[/quote]The Jeffersonian agrarianism around here was wearing thin. Someone had to do something.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Speak of the devil:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/matt-garzas-trade-value/%5B/quote%5DRealistic, but damn what a funsucker.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I just mean in terms of the dropoff from one year to the next. Anyone expecting Reed to produce anything remotely close to the same ballpark on the same continent in the neighboring galaxy in the same epoch as he did last year should be hit in the head with a tack hammer.[/quote]I don’t think anybody is. He was paid a million bucks and if he produced like last season as a starter he’d be worth about $12 million. Probably a 3-year, $27 million deal is what he’d get if he was expected to produce like last year. He’d also be the best Cubs outfielder by a mile.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Speak of the devil:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/matt-garzas-trade-value/%5B/quote%5DHe wrote a lot to reach the same exact conclusion I did a few weeks ago.
mb21Quote Reply
Reed has always hit LHP. If you use him right and his back doesn’t explode he will do just fine
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]He wrote a lot to reach the same exact conclusion I did a few weeks ago.[/quote]Correct.
At this point I’m wondering if the Cubs will just sign Garza to an extension. Or if they’ll just do a straight Turner-for-Garza swap, damn the fans.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Cameron makes an excellent point that I had ignored. The valuation of the prospects I’ve been using are actually higher due to inflation. Cameron is right that a hitting prospects ranked 11-25 would be fair value for Garza. Pitchers have a little less value so maybe one ranked in the 8-22 range.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Correct.
At this point I’m wondering if the Cubs will just sign Garza to an extension. Or if they’ll just do a straight Turner-for-Garza swap, damn the fans.[/quote]I said the other day in the comments that I think they keep Garza at this point. They’re not going to get what they reportedly are seeking. I hope they do, but they’re asking for more than what Halladay and Lee cost in a trade. They’re asking for more than what Latos and Gonzalez were worth this offseason.
I think we’ll see Garza extended sometime in February or March. Something like 5/62.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I said the other day in the comments that I think they keep Garza at this point. They’re not going to get what they reportedly are seeking. I hope they do, but they’re asking for more than what Halladay and Lee cost in a trade. They’re asking for more than what Latos and Gonzalez were worth this offseason.
I think we’ll see Garza extended sometime in February or March. Something like 5/62.[/quote]I’d be okay with that. Seems that making the trade for the sake of doing it doesn’t make complete sense if they’re only getting Jacob Turner and maybe some scraps and nothing else, plus if they keep Garza the fans will stop freaking out so much. Reasonable extension figure.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Basically it seems the likely outcomes (if Theo and Jed are as smart as we think they are) are:
1. They rape the Tigers in a trade to get Turner, Andy Oliver, and prospects #8-20 on the depth chart (last part a bit facetious)
2. They keep Garza and sign to a reasonable extension.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]Reed has always hit LHP. If you use him right and his back doesn’t explode he will do just fine[/quote]Barring injury that forces him into regular PT, I see him being DFA’d before the trade deadline, as he’ll be injured or hitting .204. Or both.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I’d be okay with that. Seems that making the trade for the sake of doing it doesn’t make complete sense if they’re only getting Jacob Turner and maybe some scraps and nothing else, plus if they keep Garza the fans will stop freaking out so much. Reasonable extension figure.[/quote]If the Cubs can get Jacob Turner for Garza you have to pull the trigger on that deal. Turner is still a bit of an unknown, but it’s possible he’d be better than Garza in a year or two. I think a lot of scouts would say he would be. And he’s cheaper.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Cameron makes an excellent point that I had ignored. The valuation of the prospects I’ve been using are actually higher due to inflation. Cameron is right that a hitting prospects ranked 11-25 would be fair value for Garza. Pitchers have a little less value so maybe one ranked in the 8-22 range.[/quote]Turner definitely sits in the 8-22 range. Turner straight up is worth the trade; getting anything more is cherry.
JManQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]If the Cubs can get Jacob Turner for Garza you have to pull the trigger on that deal. Turner is still a bit of an unknown, but it’s possible he’d be better than Garza in a year or two. I think a lot of scouts would say he would be. And he’s cheaper.[/quote]That seems reasonable to me as well but I’m pretty sure most fans would totally flip shit because prospects beer chicken.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
I don’t really care about Oliver. He has serious command issues. his minor league numbers have been mediocre and he’s more than likely a reliever.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=JMan]Turner definitely sits in the 8-22 range. Turner straight up is worth the trade; getting anything more is cherry.[/quote]I think Turner is probably overpaying because he’s MLB ready right now. If I was in charge of the Tigers there’s no way I’d trade Turner for Garza.
mb21Quote Reply
If this hypothetical trade happens…
Rotation:
Dempster
Travis Wood
Zambrano (?)
Turner
Wells
Bullpen:
Sonnanstine (swing man?)
Corpas
Cashner
Samardzija
Russell
Marmol
Random crap
I probably forgot somebody.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]If this hypothetical trade happens…
Rotation:
Dempster
Travis Wood
Zambrano (?)
Turner
Wells
Bullpen:
Sonnanstine (swing man?)
Corpas
Cashner
Samardzija
Russell
Marmol
Random crap
I probably forgot somebody.[/quote]
Don’t know if you are putting those starters in order, but based on Z’s performance in Venezuela, I think I’d put them:
Dempster
T. Wood
Wells
Turner
Zambrano
You did forget Kerry Wood, assuming he signs again. Did he already?
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Don’t know if you are putting those starters in order, but based on Z’s performance in Venezuela, I think I’d put them:
Dempster
T. Wood
Wells
Turner
Zambrano
You did forget Kerry Wood, assuming he signs again. Did he already?[/quote]I don’t think Wood signed yet. He kind of disappeared off the radar for a while.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Bruce Levine chat]Jonathon (Anaheim Ca)
With all the transactions made by Theo, mainly the dumping of salary and the banishment of two of the Cubs top prospects, what direction is he taking the team in?
Bruce Levine (1:15 PM)
Younger, more athletuc, more left-handed and better defensively. All priorities for Epstein and Hoyer.[/quote]
I’m 99% sure he was talking about Colvin and LeMahieu. In which case, (dying laughing) + facepalm
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I’m 99% sure he was talking about Colvin and LeMahieu. In which case, (dying laughing) + facepalm[/quote]
He probably meant Koyie Hill and John Grabow.
Aisle424Quote Reply
There are still people in this world with far too much money, and they are apparently really stupid.
http://jezebel.com/5871715/cruise-recreating-the-titanics-disastrous-voyage-is-a-terrible-idea
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]There are still people in this world with far too much money, and they are apparently really stupid.
http://jezebel.com/5871715/cruise-recreating-the-titanics-disastrous-voyage-is-a-terrible-idea%5B/quote%5DThat's the great thing about global warming: far fewer icebergs.
AndCountingQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Sullivan is a serial miscreant. What a worthless shitstain.[/quote]
He’s more. I think he’s like the BBWAA President for the Chicago Chapter.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]He probably meant Koyie Hill and John Grabow.[/quote]It’s tearing me apart.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Don’t know if you are putting those starters in order, but based on Z’s performance in Venezuela, I think I’d put them:
Dempster
T. Wood
Wells
Turner
Zambrano
You did forget Kerry Wood, assuming he signs again. Did he already?[/quote]Just looked at Z’s numbers in the VWL. Not good. 15 strikeouts to 10 walks in 17 innings of work in a league that is comparable to AA. Certainly not a large sample, but not at all good.
mb21Quote Reply
Carlos Silva ————-> Red Sox
Are the Cubs still paying his salary?
mb21Quote Reply
Martz —–> Resigned
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Carlos Silva ————-> Red Sox
Are the Cubs still paying his salary?[/quote]Yes, except the money they were going to use on Silva is now going to DeJesus, so actually they are paying Carlos Silva $18M this season.
/Sullivan’d
GBTSQuote Reply
Brad Fucking Snyder ———–> Fucking Rangers
Aisle424Quote Reply
http://joeposnanski.si.com/2012/01/03/the-future-and-past-of-the-hall-of-fame/
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Brad Fucking Snyder ———–> Fucking Rangers[/quote]
He’s fucking Rangers?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Brad Fucking Snyder ———–> Fucking Rangers[/quote]Nevermind. Wrong Fucking Snyder.
Aisle424Quote Reply
Can someone tell me what Norv Turner has to do to get fired?
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Can someone tell me what Norv Turner has to do to get fired?[/quote]
Volunteer with Second Mile.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Volunteer with Second Mile.[/quote]I meant now, not in 20 years.
GBTSQuote Reply
that article on the titanic claims the cruise operators have recreated the conditions on the ship. That sucks for the hundreds of Irishmen forced to shovel coal
dylanjQuote Reply
New Unobstructed View for this wonderful, wonderful day in the Bears world.
http://obstructedview.net/unobstructed-views/general/jerry-angelo-fired-mike-martz-resigns-cookie-monster-gets-giant-cookie.html
Aisle424Quote Reply
.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]that article on the titanic claims the cruise operators have recreated the conditions on the ship. That sucks for the hundreds of Irishmen forced to shovel coal[/quote]BEIDH AR LA LINN
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
SHOVEL ON MORE DOGS, WON’T YOU?
GBTSQuote Reply
Those CBS sports writers have a serious man-crush on Jack Morris.
ACTQuote Reply
The argument goes something like this: ERA is just a number. Look at all his wins!
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]The argument goes something like this: ERA is just a number. Look at all his wins![/quote]Only the numbers that help their case will be considered. You’ve been warned.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]SHOVEL ON MORE DOGS, WON’T YOU?[/quote]
such poetry
dylanjQuote Reply
Brad was referenced in this article re: the VWL:
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/1/3/2679279/venezuelan-league-stats-carlos-zambrano-bryan-lahair
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]such poetry[/quote]Poetry? You wouldn’t know Frank O’Hara from MC Hammer. Go talk to Brainy Smurf.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Those CBS sports writers have a serious man-crush on Jack Morris.[/quote]
What’s the issue with Jack Morris? He was a very good pitcher. 18 year career and an ERA under 4 in the AL is nothing to sneeze at.
PinetarQuote Reply
[quote name=Pinetar]What’s the issue with Jack Morris? He was a very good pitcher. 18 year career and an ERA under 4 in the AL is nothing to sneeze at.[/quote]Yeah but I heard he did steroids.
/howitstarts
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Pinetar]What’s the issue with Jack Morris? He was a very good pitcher. 18 year career and an ERA under 4 in the AL is nothing to sneeze at.[/quote]Well, if it were the Hall of Very Good, I don’t think there would be a controversy.
ACTQuote Reply
Morris’ ERA would be the highest of any HOF inductee, and he wasn’t exactly pitching in a pitcher’s era. His ERA+ is 105.
ACTQuote Reply
Frankly, though, I wouldn’t mind if people were making coherent arguments for Morris’ induction. It’s just that we mostly just see “You had to be there”-type arguments, and anecdotes about how he pitched well in a few important games.
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Frankly, though, I wouldn’t mind if people were making coherent arguments for Morris’ induction. It’s just that we mostly just see “You had to be there”-type arguments, and anecdotes about how he pitched well in a few important games.[/quote]I think the general consensus is that now that Bert Blyleven is in, there’s no reason to keep Morris out. At least that’s what I’ve read, which is why I expect his vote total to take a significant jump.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
If Tim Raines got the groundswell of support Blyleven and Morris got/is getting, he’d be in.
And I’ve yet to hear a coherent argument as to why Molitor’s cocaine use matters so much less than Raines’.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]If Tim Raines got the groundswell of support Blyleven and Morris got/is getting, he’d be in.
And I’ve yet to hear a coherent argument as to why Molitor’s cocaine use matters so much less than Raines’.[/quote]Color. Duh.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Has anyone got an update on Matt Garza?
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]Has anyone got an update on Matt Garza?[/quote]He’s on the Cubs.
GBTSQuote Reply
Coco Crisp———-> A’s (still)
Recalcitrant Blogger NateQuote Reply
Reedz —> 1 year, $1.15MM
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Pinetar]What’s the issue with Jack Morris? He was a very good pitcher. 18 year career and an ERA under 4 in the AL is nothing to sneeze at.[/quote]
Jack Morris gets a little love in the last verse of this:
http://youtu.be/gcehTEH86VA
UrkQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Reedz —> 1 year, $1.15MM[/quote]Hopefully he finally uses his money to buy a fucking razor.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Hopefully he finally uses his money to buy a fucking razor.[/quote]I hope he just grows a big fucking beard.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I hope he just grows a big fucking beard.[/quote]One of the two. But this Guy Fieri douchebeard he grows has to go.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
If Morris pitched better after the age of 33 I’d be in favor of him getting into the HOF. He didn’t. He was very good through his age 32 season, but pretty bad after that. He was so good prior to 33 that he belongs in. He dropped off the face of the planet after age 32. He had a 3.55 ERA before that and 4.5 after.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]One of the two. But this Guy Fieri douchebeard he grows has to go.[/quote]Perhaps the moderation of beard length is the source of his intangible powers.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]One of the two. But this Guy Fieri douchebeard he grows has to go.[/quote]Reed’s “beard” is similar to the Cubs plan since 2009. They weren’t going to win now. They weren’t trying to win later. Reed doesn’t have a beard now. He’s not going to have a beard later. Perfect match.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Perhaps the moderation of beard length is the source of his intangible powers.[/quote]I think if he had a huge beard he’d be the best player in baseball. It’s all about the beard. The bigger the beard, the better the player.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I think if he had a huge beard he’d be the best player in baseball. It’s all about the beard. The bigger the beard, the better the player.[/quote]We should write him a letter telling him to out-Brian Wilson Brian Wilson.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I think if he had a huge beard he’d be the best player in baseball. It’s all about the beard. The bigger the beard, the better the player.[/quote]In that case, I’m currently a better player than Reed Johnson.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]In that case, I’m currently a better player than Reed Johnson.[/quote]How are you at diving into brick walls?
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]In that case, I’m currently a better player than Reed Johnson.[/quote](dying laughing) me too
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]Has anyone got an update on Matt Garza?[/quote]http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/matt-garza-rumors-tuesday.html
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/matt-garza-rumors-tuesday.html[/quote]So the Cubs have essentially set the price for Garza so high that a trade won’t get done. That makes sense if you think you can sign him to an extension at a decent price.
mb21Quote Reply
http://www.suntimes.com/9725535-417/charlie-trotter-to-close-his-world-renowned-chicago-eatery.html
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]http://www.suntimes.com/9725535-417/charlie-trotter-to-close-his-world-renowned-chicago-eatery.html[/quote]Good for him!
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Good for him![/quote]Yep. It’s also a reason for me to go to Chicago sometime in the next 8 months. The Cubs don’t qualify as a reason to visit Chicago these days. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
So you say Garza isn’t a true ACE? Then what’s your definition of a true ACE? And if he’s not an ACE, is he a #1? What’s your definition of a #1? Is a #1 an ACE? Who really is an ACE?
/Al Yellon’d
MuckerQuote Reply
[quote name=Mac]So you say Garza isn’t a true ACE? Then what’s your definition of a true ACE? And if he’s not an ACE, is he a #1? What’s your definition of a #1? Is a #1 an ACE? Who really is an ACE?
/Al Yellon’d[/quote]
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yep. It’s also a reason for me to go to Chicago sometime in the next 8 months. The Cubs don’t qualify as a reason to visit Chicago these days. (dying laughing)[/quote]You better call quick, that place is gonna book solid with a quickness.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]You better call quick, that place is gonna book solid with a quickness.[/quote]I have a friend who worked with him for a long time who has gotten me in before, but since he’s only open 4 days a week now that may not be possible. I may have to actually plan something. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
That would’ve been a better post had the picture of Snoopy flying his doghouse actually worked. Fail.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I have a friend who worked with him for a long time who has gotten me in before, but since he’s only open 4 days a week now that may not be possible. I may have to actually plan something. (dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing), indeed. If you want some recs for other places while you’re in town, let me know.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mac]So you say Garza isn’t a true ACE? Then what’s your definition of a true ACE? And if he’s not an ACE, is he a #1? What’s your definition of a #1? Is a #1 an ACE? Who really is an ACE?
/Al Yellon’d[/quote]
Okay, now I feel better.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Bulls are good at basketball.
GBTSQuote Reply
How does one calculate the run contribution of each player in a single game? I had this little bet going on that the Cubs could score more than 76 runs in April (or a bit more than 3.3 runs per game) even with a shitastic lineup.
That’s based on the 76 points scored by the Bulls in tonight’s victory BTW. Atlanta FAIL.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]How does one calculate the run contribution of each player in a single game?[/quote]Linear weights?
ACTQuote Reply
[quote name=ACT]Linear weights?[/quote]I don’t really know. Not an expert (dying laughing)
When doing game previews last season berselius used to have projected runs scored by each team and I didn’t really know how those were calculated. I guess you can’t really do a detailed calculation until you know what the starting lineup is and who the pitchers are. For my purposes I think maybe it’s best to figure out the projected number of runs scored over the season and then divide by 162.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I have a friend who worked with him for a long time who has gotten me in before, but since he’s only open 4 days a week now that may not be possible. I may have to actually plan something. (dying laughing)[/quote]How did you like your first time around?
When I went there in 2008, I was pretty disappointed. The whole concept of showcasing the full flavor of certain qualitiy, locally produced items sounds great, but I felt he really overdid it to the point where single flavors where too bold and the whole menu seemed kinda unbalanced.
DamageControlFreakQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]I don’t really know. Not an expert (dying laughing)
When doing game previews last season berselius used to have projected runs scored by each team and I didn’t really know how those were calculated. I guess you can’t really do a detailed calculation until you know what the starting lineup is and who the pitchers are. For my purposes I think maybe it’s best to figure out the projected number of runs scored over the season and then divide by 162.[/quote]I set up the game previews and I used wRC+ to estimate runs scored. Using Base Runs would be better, but a bit more complicated. After the Cubs projections are all in I can send that spreadsheet along to you.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=DamageControlFreak]How did you like your first time around?
When I went there in 2008, I was pretty disappointed. The whole concept of showcasing the full flavor of certain qualitiy, locally produced items sounds great, but I felt he really overdid it to the point where single flavors where too bold and the whole menu seemed kinda unbalanced.[/quote]I first went back in 1993 and loved it. Absolutely loved it. The next time I went (a few years later) I still loved it. I didn’t get back there until 2000 and it wasn’t as good as it was early on. It was still awesome though. I went in 2000, 2001 and 2002. I’d go there each time I went to Chicago to see the Cubs and haven’t been to Wrigley since 2002. Alinea is probably the best place in Chicago these days, right? If I come up to Chicago to go to Trotter’s I’m going to check that place out too.
I have a soft spot for Trottter because he was the inspiration for me when I started cooking. At that time he was the best around. He’s been passed now, but I’m pretty sure I’ll enjoy it.
BTW, if not Alinea (being the best), which one is?
mb21Quote Reply
Offseason ———————————> boring
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]Offseason ———————————> boring[/quote]That’s what happens when the best player your team has acquired is David DeJesus.
mb21Quote Reply
Also
[quote name=mb21]That’s what happens when baseball games haven’t been played for the last two months.[/quote]
(All due respect to the Carribbean leagues and HP)
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Yeah, I couldn’t care less about the winter league games either. I’m actually surprised college baseball doesn’t do better considering the interest some people have in inferior baseball.
mb21Quote Reply
Well, college baseball overlaps ST and the regular season.
I could see getting into lesser leagues in the winter if they were available to watch easily and the teams had the same players more or less year to year, to provide a sense of character for the teams and league.
I really like the WBC, so maybe more of a tournament format for winter baseball would grab my attention.
But yeah, it’s never quite the same as MLB.
Suburban kidQuote Reply
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
Why did the guy tackle his own teammate?
Suburban kidQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I set up the game previews and I used wRC+ to estimate runs scored. Using Base Runs would be better, but a bit more complicated. After the Cubs projections are all in I can send that spreadsheet along to you.[/quote]That was supposed to be a positive faget point but the buttons are small and close together on the mobile app and I have no depth perception.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]Why did the guy tackle his own teammate?[/quote]
He just wouldn’t listen…
Dr. Aneus TaintQuote Reply
[quote name=Suburban kid]Why did the guy tackle his own teammate?[/quote]Would you ask Tom Petty that question?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I first went back in 1993 and loved it. Absolutely loved it. The next time I went (a few years later) I still loved it. I didn’t get back there until 2000 and it wasn’t as good as it was early on. It was still awesome though. I went in 2000, 2001 and 2002. I’d go there each time I went to Chicago to see the Cubs and haven’t been to Wrigley since 2002. Alinea is probably the best place in Chicago these days, right? If I come up to Chicago to go to Trotter’s I’m going to check that place out too.
I have a soft spot for Trottter because he was the inspiration for me when I started cooking. At that time he was the best around. He’s been passed now, but I’m pretty sure I’ll enjoy it.
BTW, if not Alinea (being the best), which one is?[/quote]It’s probably Alinea. They pulled 3 MIchelin stars and Achatz is a fucking badass in the kitchen. With that said, I can give you some more off-the-beaten path type recs if you want to try some other stuff while you’re there.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The 40-man roster is full. That’s just odd.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]The 40-man roster is full. That’s just odd.[/quote]How long has it been since that was the case. Almost 2 years now, yes?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It’s probably Alinea. They pulled 3 MIchelin stars and Achatz is a fucking badass in the kitchen. With that said, I can give you some more off-the-beaten path type recs if you want to try some other stuff while you’re there.[/quote]I’ll probably only come up for 3 or 4 days. Trotter’s and Alinea are musts. I haven’t eaten at Alinea since I haven’t been to Chicago while it’s been open. What one restaurant must I eat at while I’m there other than those two?
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]How long has it been since that was the case. Almost 2 years now, yes?[/quote]They were full when the season began each of the last two years, but never this early. I really don’t understand it. I’m less than impressed with the guys they chose to protect over Ryan Flaherty. There are at least 6 or 7 guys on the 40-man roster that I feel Flaherty should have been protected before they were. I’d actually rather have Flaherty on the 40-man than Soriano.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]What one restaurant must I eat at while I’m there other than those two?[/quote]There’s a Subway under the El on Van Buren that I like.
GBTSQuote Reply
7 outfielders on the 40-man.
Marlon Byrd
Tony Campana
David DeJesus
Reed Johnson
Dave Sappelt
Alfonso Soriano
Matthew Szczur
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ll probably only come up for 3 or 4 days. Trotter’s and Alinea are musts. I haven’t eaten at Alinea since I haven’t been to Chicago while it’s been open. What one restaurant must I eat at while I’m there other than those two?[/quote]Damn. Good question. I’ll give you the three I would choose between, and you can look them up and make your choice: Topolobampo, The Publican, and Bistro Campagne.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
The funny thing is that the best outfielder in the Cubs organization isn’t even among those 7, which is fine. No reason to burn his service time just yet, but that makes me laugh. I’m not sure the Cubs can justify leaving spring training without Brett Jackson, but I’m sure they’ll find their excuses like other teams do.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]7 outfielders on the 40-man.
Marlon Byrd
Tony Campana
David DeJesus
Reed Johnson
Dave Sappelt
Alfonso Soriano
Matthew Szczur[/quote]WTF? No BJax, but Szczczczczczczczczczczczur makes it?
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21] BTW, if not Alinea (being the best), which one is?[/quote]I definitely liked Alinea A LOT more than Trotters. I always felt like I should try Trotter again, since the menu changes alot quickly, but I never felt like ponying up $500 again for a place i didn’t really like.
IMO, Alineas only competitor for best restaurant in the city would be Next. Never been there myself, but if I still lived in Chicago (and managed to score tickets) it would be my very first choice. I feel it’s it among the most exciting concepts in the culinary world and given the rave reviews it seems to be able to live up to the hype.
DamageControlFreakQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]They were full when the season began each of the last two years, but never this early. I really don’t understand it. I’m less than impressed with the guys they chose to protect over Ryan Flaherty. There are at least 6 or 7 guys on the 40-man roster that I feel Flaherty should have been protected before they were. I’d actually rather have Flaherty on the 40-man than Soriano.[/quote]Ryan Flaherty is the new Marquez Smith. (dying laughing)
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Damn. Good question. I’ll give you the three I would choose between, and you can look them up and make your choice: Topolobampo, The Publican, and Bistro Campagne.[/quote]That wins just because the name is awesome.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]WTF? No BJax, but Szczczczczczczczczczczczur makes it?[/quote]Szczur had to be protected and Jackson doesn’t. I’m fine with that. I’d prefer the Cubs not call Jackson up until sometime in June. I just think it’s funny their best outfielder isn’t among the 7 on the 40-man roster.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=DamageControlFreak]I definitely liked Alinea A LOT more than Trotters. I always felt like I should try Trotter again, since the menu changes alot quickly, but I never felt like ponying up $500 again for a place i didn’t really like.
IMO, Alineas only competitor for best restaurant in the city would be Next. Never been there myself, but if I still lived in Chicago (and managed to score tickets) it would be my very first choice. I feel it’s it among the most exciting concepts in the culinary world and given the rave reviews it seems to be able to live up to the hype.[/quote]I hadn’t heard of Next. Sounds intriguing. I’ve read the same thing about Alinea.
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]WTF? No BJax, but Szczczczczczczczczczczczur makes it?[/quote]I think they had to protect Szczur from the Rule 5 because of some goofball snafu when setting up his signing bonus. Brett Jackson isn’t Rule 5 eligible yet.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]
[/quote]I assume the tackler was under strict orders to not let the tacklee do anything stupid, like try to run the ball out when the cover team was already on the 5-yard line.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]That wins just because the name is awesome.[/quote](dying laughing), that’s the upscale side of Bayless’ Frontera Grill. The tasting menus he puts together are really wonderful. BUt check out the other two, as well.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder](dying laughing), that’s the upscale side of Bayless’ Frontera Grill. The tasting menus he puts together are really wonderful. BUt check out the other two, as well.[/quote]This guy?
(dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]This guy?
(dying laughing)[/quote]No, (dying laughing), his brother, Rick:
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
At Skip Bayless’ restaurant, every time you order something the server complains how disappointing of a choice that was.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]At Skip Bayless’ restaurant, every time you order something the server complains how disappointing of a choice that was.[/quote]And then points out that if you had just wanted it more, your meal would have been perfect.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Yeah, I know, MO. It’s just whenever I see the name Bayless I immediately think of the lesser brother. (dying laughing)
mb21Quote Reply
[quote name=mb21]Yeah, I know, MO. It’s just whenever I see the name Bayless I immediately think of the lesser brother. (dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing), I wonder how often that is the case. Speaking of Bayless, if you plan to go in the spring, this is a fun thing to do: http://www.shoresgardenconsulting.com/tours.html
His garden is amazing. But get on the list now, it fills up quick.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
If you want, MB, I go to that Subway on my lunch break a lot, I know one of the two workers pretty well. I could probably get you cookies when you go, depending which one is at the register.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]If you want, MB, I go to that Subway on my lunch break a lot, I know one of the two workers pretty well. I could probably get you cookies when you go, depending which one is at the register.[/quote]I think they prefer to be called “sandwich artists,” thank you very much.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Huh. A common-sense front office guy.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/the-astros-follow-bill-simmons-advice/
Rice CubeQuote Reply
[quote name=Rice Cube]Huh. A common-sense front office guy.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/04/the-astros-follow-bill-simmons-advice/%5B/quote%5DThey're also going to force a Shawshank reference into every single acquisition too.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]They’re also going to force a Shawshank reference into every single acquisition too.[/quote]You get busy running, or you get busy TOOTBLANing.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Fuck Bill Simmons.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]God damn cats crawling up trees, five times five is twenty five. FUCK Bill Simmons. FUCK HIM.[/quote].
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Fuck Bill Simmons.[/quote]Use protection!
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Zihuatanejo…
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Don’t recall if anyone saw this, but apparently PedoBear showed up for the Penn State bowl game:
No, I don’t read every post.
Rice CubeQuote Reply
Elway to Tebow: “Kill yourself”
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2011/story/_/id/7422969/2012-nfl-playoffs-denver-broncos-john-elway-says-tim-tebow-needs-pull-trigger
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=GBTS]Elway to Tebow: “Kill yourself”
http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2011/story/_/id/7422969/2012-nfl-playoffs-denver-broncos-john-elway-says-tim-tebow-needs-pull-trigger%5B/quote%5DI really hope Elway doesn’t think he’s fooling the Steelers with this shaggy dog bullshit.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It’s probably Alinea. They pulled 3 MIchelin stars and Achatz is a fucking badass in the kitchen. With that said, I can give you some more off-the-beaten path type recs if you want to try some other stuff while you’re there.[/quote]
Alinea remains the best meal I’ve ever had. I’ve been to Next twice, and it’s nearly as good (rotating concept, different menu quarterly). Other supremely awesome places to check out are Schwa (seasonal, tiny, hard to get into), Topolopampo (covered above), Publican (belgian beers and all things pork), Longman and Eagle (better for brunch, excellent drinks), Great Lake (named best pizza on Earth by GQ), ING (the only place I know of that has miracle berries), Blackbird (good, but overrated in my opinion), Kuma’s Corner (finest burgers on the planet, good beer selection, insanely loud death metal at all times), Hot Doug’s (gourmet hot dogs served by the friendliest man in town), Belly Shack (Korean/Puerto Rican fusion fast food). I’m probably forgetting a lot.
WenningtonsGorillaCockQuote Reply
[quote name=mb21]I’ll probably only come up for 3 or 4 days. Trotter’s and Alinea are musts. I haven’t eaten at Alinea since I haven’t been to Chicago while it’s been open. What one restaurant must I eat at while I’m there other than those two?[/quote]
You have to check out Moto- Homar Cantu is one the leading food innovators in the world right now.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
[quote name=WenningtonsGorillaCock]Alinea remains the best meal I’ve ever had. I’ve been to Next twice, and it’s nearly as good (rotating concept, different menu quarterly). Other supremely awesome places to check out are Schwa (seasonal, tiny, hard to get into), Topolopampo (covered above), Publican (belgian beers and all things pork), Longman and Eagle (better for brunch, excellent drinks), Great Lake (named best pizza on Earth by GQ), ING (the only place I know of that has miracle berries), Blackbird (good, but overrated in my opinion), Kuma’s Corner (finest burgers on the planet, good beer selection, insanely loud death metal at all times), Hot Doug’s (gourmet hot dogs served by the friendliest man in town), Belly Shack (Korean/Puerto Rican fusion fast food). I’m probably forgetting a lot.[/quote]
I would add Moto and Ria. But you did a good job covering most of the great ones.
Rodrigo RamirezQuote Reply
Ya gotta go to Giordano’s while you’re here. Dey’re da best. Dey got cheese all over da place.
Aisle424Quote Reply
But yeah, Hot Doug’s is phenomenal.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]But yeah, Hot Doug’s is phenomenal.[/quote]
i always figured you for a Hot Carl kind of guy
dylanjQuote Reply
[quote name=dylanj]i always figured you for a Hot Carl kind of guy[/quote]Washed down with a Flaming Moe.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
New shit: http://obstructedview.net/chicago-cubs/articles/forget-lunch-kap-is-interviewing-theo-at-noon-today.html
Aisle424Quote Reply
boeing just closed its entire plant in Wichita. 2,000 jobs gone in the next year
dylanjQuote Reply