Aisle 424 suggested we have a Hall of Fame survey that includes all 37 players on the ballot. We figured it might be fun so we've set one up. We're using the same rules: pick no more than 10, 75% required to enter.
Here is a helpful link from B-Ref that brings together all of the HOF candidates' stats on one page for easy reference.
The survey includes yes, no and no answer options, but you only need to select "yes" for those you think should be in the Hall of Fame. You do not need to click "No" (we're trying to save you some time).
We're keeping the voting open until 2 weeks from Sunday (December 9th). We'd like to get as much participation as possible so we're asking you to tweet this or post it on facebook. We'll be doing the same on occasion too.
When the voting closes we'll reveal who gets into our Hall of Fame and we'll each discuss our ballots and the reasoning for why we voted for certain players. We'll also do a community round-up.
It shouldn't take you too long so please take some when you ge ta chance. Click the link below to vote and feel free to share your ballot in the comments.
I filled out thusly…
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Lofton
Edgar
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa
I really wanted more spots so I could also vote for Trammell and Larry Walker.
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Raffy
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa
Trammell
rattier wrote:
thanks, now i have something to do at work tomorrow.
Mine was mostly the same as you.
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
McGwire
Palmeiro
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa
Also really really wanted to vote for Trammell. Just have to blame that on the BBWAA.
For me it came down to Trammell, Bagwell and McGwire and I could take 2 of them. I went with Bagwell and then almost went with Trammell over McGwire, but left him off in the end.
I did :
Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Lofton
McGwire
Palmeiro
Raines
Trammel
Walker
Only nine. I was going to add Sosa but I old-timered it and left him off as “not good enough to get in as first-year eligible” (dying laughing). Biggio and Schilling are in the same boat , I guess.
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Clemens
Raines
Trammel
Walker
Sosa
Schilling
Piazza
While Kenny Lofton might be underrated and flew under the radar I still hope he gets more than 5% of the vote to stay on the ballot. I doubt he’ll ever get in though.
Any chance you can give slash stats and career war on the ballot? It would make my decisions easier…
mb21 wrote:
Bagwell was a no-brainer. He’s #35 on Rally’s all time WAR list for position players, better than everyone on this list except Bonds.
I’m still waffly on Sosa and Piazza. They’re borderline cases for me.
need a quick answer: i am making a bet with a friend next year on the cubs season. i need a fair number for an over/under. i have to take the under.
i’m initially thinking 60 just because this team looks as bad (or much, much worse) than last year but it sure is tough to lose 100+ two years in a row, i don’t care how fucking bad your team is.
65?
@ Berselius:
Same on Sosa and Piazza; I was a little iffy on Walker because of Coors, but his numbers were gawdy and I don’t necessarily think Being a Rockie should disqualify you. (dying laughing)
If I had one more vote it’d go to Lofton. If I had to drop one I chose, it’d be Sosa.
@ EnricoPallazzo:
67? That’s if a fair amount of things break their way. Losing 100 games is tough so 60 is way lw.
@ 26.2cubfan:
I can add it tomorrow morning.
Piazza was pretty easy for me. I picked him after Bonds, Clemens, Biggio, Schilling and Raines.
I’d go 68 as an over/under.
bagwell
the beeg
bonds
clemens
donnie baseball
palmiero
piazza
smith
sosa
trammell
in retrospect i definitely should have voted for schilling instead of mattingly.
I updated the post with a link to a handy B-Ref page with all the candidates’ stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_2013.shtml
@ Mish:
@ mb21:
67.5 it is. gracias.
Bags
Barry
Rog’
Ken
Edgar
Piazza
Rock
Schill
Tram
Lar’
Sorry, folks, I loved watching Sosa growing up, but he ain’t first-ballot material. (He’s a borderline HOF and many are more deserving. I couldn’t even find room for Biggio or Palmeiro on my ballot, and they had better careers than Sam.)
Lofton I’m a little iffy on. It’s either him, Palmeiro or Biggio for my 10th pick.
@ Rizzo the Rat:
i actually made a point of not going back to look at sosa’s numbers because i didn’t want the moral dilemma of him vs. larry walker.
@ EnricoPallazzo:
Heh. Walker’s OPS+: 141. Sosa’s: 128. And, of course, Walker was a frequent Gold Glove winner.
You know, if I didn’t know any better, I’d get the impression that this blog was biased toward the Cubs.
The new (or not so new?) PED… Viagra
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/11/29/nfl-viagra-brandon-marshall-performance-drugs_n_2214825.html
@ Rizzo the Rat:
nah, they fuckin suck.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/justin-ruggiano-disputes-fox-ken-rosenthal-marlins-cf-190349699–mlb.html;_ylt=AqxlpOYFXun2ZN0pSKlcAcnsYcp_;_ylu=X3oDMTE5aG9hOGFnBG1pdANCbG9ncyBJbmRleARwb3MDMjQEc2VjA01lZGlhQmxvZ0luZGV4;_ylg=X3oDMTFpMm9iMzh1BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDBHBzdGNhdANibG9nBHB0A3NlY3Rpb25z;_ylv=3
Ruggiano almost shut Ken Rosenthal right up.
@ Berselius:
Piazza was an easy one for me. He’s easily one of the best catchers ever (I think you have to give catchers a break do to the difficulty of having a long career at the position.) I also wish Edgar Martinez were getting more love. I don’t care about the DH thing; his bat made him worth more than 60 WAR.
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@ EnricoPallazzo:
Download | Convert YouTube to MP3
On a cool story bro’d note, I saw a guy who had a nice Cubs jersey on once, except he wrote on it to say “Fuk’n Cubs Suck”. Seemed like a lot of money invested to make a statement, but more power to that guy.
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
http://hectorsalamanca.com/
Bagwell
Biggio
Bonds
Martinez
Morris
Piazza
Schilling
Raines
Trammel
L. Walker
@ Rizzo the Rat:
My issue with Piazza is mostly how shitty he was defensively. That said, holy shit, I had no idea that he slugged .600 three times in his career. I’m biased because I only remember his years with the Mets.
@ Berselius:
Yeah, he had a good run with the Marlins.
GBTS wrote:
Is this necessary?
No, it is not.
T. Walker
White
Clayton
Klesko
Mesa
Sexson
Beckert
Rodman
Poehler
Romney
@ Suburban kid:
No Swanson/Offerman? GTFO.
@ Mish:
I think we can all agree it’s time Affirmative Action was brought to the HOF process.
I voted 10 times for Rondell White
Who was the player Al said should require every other black player to be kicked out until said player was allowed in?
@ Mish:
Buck O’neil I believe.
Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Lofton
Martinez
McGwire
Murphy
Piazza
Raines
Schilling
Sosa
I know there are 11 people here. I simply can’t remember whether I unclicked Murphy or Lofton. Murphy probably doesn’t measure up, but from my baseball past he sticks out more than others.
Xoomwaffle wrote:
That’s a better reason than Phil Hersh’s.
@ WenningtonsGorillaCock:
@ Mish:
Yeah, that’s important and all, but I am most disgusted with the lack of
womengender balance in the HOF.@ WaLi:
Freedom costs a Buck O’Neil.
I also feel like the transgendered community is not well represented in the Hall of Fame. Or, hockey players.
GBTS, I’ve always wondered how you were working your way through law school.
http://www.livingsocial.com/cities/68/deals/544200-video-call-from-santa-claus
You know what IS well represented in the HOF (or at least was last time I was there, which was about 10 years ago)? A video showing Skydome’s roof opening and closing in real time. It’s about 40 minutes long if you watch the whole thing. Which I did (dying laughing)
@ WenningtonsGorillaCock:
Is the Skydome the one in Toronto? If so, I watched it open in person from high above on that tower next to it. Then watched Lou bitch to the umpires about the shadows when they closed it again in the middle of the game.
Suburban kid wrote:
Correct. I believe it’s now called the Rogers Center. Or, “Centre” because it’s all fancy and shit.
@ WenningtonsGorillaCock:
You need to humoUr them. They spell things properly.
Er ma gerd Derek Jeter is FAT:
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/exclusive_photo_captain_munch_QNmVyqVl7eIPeKPH0sR53H?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost
A sign of the Apocalypse.
@ Rice Cube:
He looks fat and skinny at the same time. It’s weird. He has a white trash body (dying laughing)
I waffled more on Sosa than Bagwell. In the end, I left Sosa off…
Yeah, I guess I didn’t look at closely at Piazza as I should have. I’d put him in no doubt. In retrospect, IDK why I didn’t include Edgar. I would put him in before Sosa. Damnit.
Rodrigo Ramirez wrote:
Jeter’s pregnant? That makes him a lock for MY Hall of Fame.
@ Mish:
Piazza is the best hitting catcher of all time and it’s not even close. Among HOF catchers Piazza’s 143 OPS+ as a catcher would be the best by 14 points (Mickey Cochrane). Gary Carter’s was 115 and Fisk’s was 117. Johnny Bench’s was 126. There’s just no comparison between Piazza and any other catcher when it comes to batting. He was, by far, the best hitting catcher of all time. He’s the only one to slug over .500 (Campanella slugged exactly .500).
There was an article in some book (I’m thinking it was one of The Hardball Times annuals and I seem to remember Craig Wright writing it) that talked about Piazza’s defense. I came away convinced he was much much better defensively than given credit for (seem to also remember he used a WOWY approach like Tango often uses).
I don’t know if Piazza is the best catcher overall in the history of the game, but if I had to list the best catchers in history, Piazza would be atop my list. If he isn’t the best, he’s pretty fucking close and considering the position he’s as much a no-brainer pick for the HOF for me as Bonds and Clemens are.
I’m fine with being biased toward Sosa. Especially if it means it keeps Edgar out. I’m a huge fan of the DH and want it to come to the NL, but I wouldn’t be voting for someone who can’t play the field. I wouldn’t do it for much the same reason I wouldn’t vote for any other reliever than Mariano Rivera. If you’re a reliever, you aren’t good enough to start and that says it all. If you’re a DH, you aren’t even good enough to play the field and we know teams have no problem running guys out there who are -15 runs defensively.
GBTS, nice Team America reference.
McGriff is borderline for me. He was one of my favorite players when I was a kid so I’m a bit biased.
Yeah not sure why I waffled on Piazza. If I had only waited for Aisley to put up the easy link to B-Ref (dying laughing).
Now I’m thinking about waffles and pizzas.
@ Mish:
I don’t care if people don’t vote based on stats. I’d prefer they don’t. We can go to Bref or Fangraphs to get a list of the most valuable players if that’s what we wanted, but this isn’t meant to accomplish that in my opinion.
My complaint with the Hall of Fame isn’t that voters don’t vote based on stats, it’s the arbitrary method with which they vote. This kind of cheating is OK. This kind isn’t. They’ve turned it into their hall of fame when it’s baseball’s hall of fame. It’s a Hall of Fame for us as fans and not them as writers.
mb21 wrote:
This
@ mb21:
Right the arbitrariness is the worst. Still, I approach it statistically and kinda blew off the whole looking at stats thing. My dinner was getting cold but I wanted to make my votes last night. (dying laughing)
mb21 wrote:
Well said MB.
I wouldn’t vote for any reliever outside of Rivera, but ultimately I just go by total value. I can understand the not voting in the DH thing, but I just don’t believe in that.
Edgar’s numbers aren’t even that much better than Piazza’s and one of them played the most difficult position on the field while the other only had 2 seasons in which he played full time as a fielder.
@ mb21:
I think this leads to votes like mine, which I don’t know would be fundamentally “correct.” I think my age and knowledge about baseball at the time each player was playing affects my ability to vote. I had to vote for Sosa and McGwire because they are the reason I watch baseball. That is fame to me. Dale Murphy and Edgar Martinez are people that I would go out of my way to at least look up a box score about, and most of the time try to catch their highlights on SportsCenter.
I looked at the word “Fame” and I had to think about what made players famous to me as much as how they stacked up in stats. But then I question whether I am getting into too much of a semantic argument, like so many people do with the word “Valuable” with the MVP.
@ Mish:
I’d vote for a DH like I would a reliever (Mariano), but I haven’t seen a DH yet that I’d vote for. If Pujols began his career as a DH, he’d get my vote easily. For me, the bar is just higher than Edgar. Great player and maybe in a weak year for HOF ballots I’d vote for him, but not the one this year.
@ Xoomwaffle:
To me, there’s no correct way to pick players as long as the person is consistent. It doesn’t have to be about stats and I’d prefer it not be, but I just want the BBWAA to be consistent and they aren’t.
I didn’t look at any of the player stats before I voted. I knew Bonds was the best and Clemens the best pitcher. Other than that all I had was a vague idea of their numbers.
To me, the HOF should promote the great players of baseball’s past. If you are a Top 10 player at your position, then you should be a no brainer. Considering the amount of players this league has produced, being one of the best at your position should qualify for induction. Considering how much the sport has changed since they’ve been inducting players, it seems very stupid to continue to use the same type of voting standards for today’s players. It seems like voters compare players to players already in and they should be comparing them to their contemporaries. They should really look into changing the voting process. Stop using writers and use a panel of former/ current players, fron office members, etc. There has to be a better way than scorned sports writers.
mb, so do you think when Joe Mauer is done he should be in the HOF because of how great of a hitting catcher he was?
I dunno where this comes from but posted without comment.
http://www.draysbay.com/2012/11/30/3705872/rays-winter-trade-target-alfonso-soriano
@ JonKneeV:
It depends on how much he catches going forward and, well, how good he is. I think he’s on pace to reach the Hall of Fame. If he becomes more of a full-time DH then he’s going to have to hit better in my opinion.
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/11/30/3698082/winter-meetings-cubs-theo-epstein-rotation-scott-baker-feldman
Per the Twitters, it looks like there’s an ATL/LAA trade sending Hanson and Walden opposite directions. Not sure if that is the totality of the deal.
Forgive my ignorance, but Hanson for Walden? Does that seem like a stupid trade by the Braves? He would have looked good in a Cubs uniform.
@ Mucker:
yes, that would be awful
@ Mucker:
I think there are serious concerns about Hanson’s long term health. At first blush it might seem like a win for the Angels, but I am not so sure. Appeal to authority, but people whose baseball opinions I respect seem to indicate that Hanson’s stuff has been trending downwards while he’s getting more expensive.
The Braves have a killer set of bullpen arms at the moment. I’d bet one of them gets moved at some point.
Fat Derek Jeter meme.
http://t.co/6wN9GQYN
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Download | Convert YouTube to MP3
Words. There are none.
Aisle 424 ——–> Aisle 409
At least for this season.
@ mb21:
His career hitting numbers are way better than Piazza’s. He had more career WAR than Piazza (using either site) despite the large defensive difference. I mean, I’d pick Piazza over him (due to Piazza’s being one of the best in his position and the difficulty of staying healthy and productive there), but I don’t see Sosa belonging ahead of Edgar despite the former’s defensive value.
The reliever analogy is a bad one. Relievers are generally not that valuable. Edgar was very valuable. And saying he was not “good enough” to play the field is ridiculous. He was one of the best hitters of his generation, and If it hadn’t been for the DH, he would have played the field (probably 1B). I don’t think it makes sense to support the existence of a DH and simultaneously set a ridiculously high bar for them. i.e., if it hadn’t been for the DH rule, we’d probably be talking about Edgar as a DH candidate at 1B (even if he’d be below average defensively).
I just hate the idea of implementing a DH rule, moving HOF-worthy first basemen to the DH spot, and then moving the bar much, much higher for them to get inducted. 1B is just a little bit better than a glorified DH as it is, and DH’s can be very valuable with their
glovesbats alone.Rizzo the Rat wrote:
I would love to see this.
/dick
Aisle424 wrote:
I’d make a joke about changing your deep name, but Mish is a lazy fuck who hasn’t read those books I recommended to him yet so no one would get it.
Just saw a BBRAA voter dismiss Bagwell as “just a guy who swung hard” (dying laughing).
Drug test figures from Calcaterra. Very interesting stuff.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/11/30/the-annual-report-about-baseballs-drug-program-is-out/
@ Aisle424:
You have a high tolerance for pain.
FWIW KLaw said the inside of Hanson’s shoulder looks like “hamburger meat.”
@ mb21:
I know. He’s much closer to Alvin now.
Berselius wrote:
Hey…fuck you. (dying laughing)
Suburban kid wrote:
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
new shit: http://www.obstructedview.net/projections/an-early-look-at-the-2013-rotation.html