How much is Prince Fielder worth?

[quote name=ACT]Also, he’s fat. And he apparently doesn’t test well with the all-important latin-american demographic.[/quote]
That’s actually a benefit in Chicago where we don’t like the latinos because of their laziness. Black dudes are OK as long as they hit really long homeruns and don’t speak their mind too much.

I know these WARs come from the projections, but are they closer to fWAR or rWAR?

Now that I think of it, is the $5M/win for fWAR or rWAR?

Not sure if someone talked about this already, but regarding Ian Stewart:

Maybe Thoyer see something in him the way they did with Bill Mueller back in 03/04? I remember them saying they identified him as a player they believed would turn it around; had a good approach for the short fence in Boston; played good enough D, etc.

Am I reaching here?

[quote name=fang2415]I know these WARs come from the projections, but are they closer to fWAR or rWAR?

Now that I think of it, is the $5M/win for fWAR or rWAR?[/quote]CAIRO uses an average defensive projection and Oliver uses its own defensive projection. CAIRO uses wOBA. I’m sure Berselius could tell you what Oliver uses, but I don’t think it’s wOBA. Is it closer to fWAR or rWAR? I don’t think it should matter. Not much anyway.

[quote name=fang2415]Wrong, wrong, and wrong.

I’m not even going to say why. You should just know. (dying laughing)[/quote]Sad when people can’t accept statements of indisputable fact. (dying laughing)

[quote name=Aisle424]Albert Pujols:

(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)[/quote]He is a man of abiding faith.

MLBTR on the ramifications of the Pujols deal:

Rookie of the Year runner-up Mark Trumbo and the injured Kendrys Morales are now in limbo. There has been some talk of moving Trumbo to third, but the Angels may trade him instead. Morales, a borderline non-tender candidate with a projected salary in the $3MM range, might draw interest from teams such as the Rays, Pirates, Cubs, Brewers and Blue Jays if and when he and Trumbo become available.

If fWAR and rWAR disagreed like they do on Ricky Nolasco I’d think it’s more important to nail down the method.

[quote name=mb21]If fWAR and rWAR disagreed like they do on Ricky Nolasco I’d think it’s more important to nail down the method.[/quote]Yeah, fair enough. After looking at Fielder’s actual numbers I realized it didn’t make much difference in this case.

Only 2 more days to tender contracts to arbitration eligible players, right?

No. Hill is the backup plan in case LaHair doesn’t pan out at first base.

Also, he’s the team’s ninth starter.

It’s too bad he had those fingers re-attached. He cold have been the next Mordecai Brown.

NO WAI

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7338271/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-tests-positive-performance-enhancing-drug

[quote name=Rice Cube]NO WAI

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7338271/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-tests-positive-performance-enhancing-drug/quoteWwwwwwwwooooooowwwwww

[quote name=fang2415]Biochemistry nerds, report in.[/quote]
So epitestosterone apparently only differs at the carbon with the hydroxyl group…I’m not sure how it forms or which enzyme does it but the hydroxyl group basically just points the other way than testosterone. I think they’re just looking at that hydroxyl group for the most part to determine whether it’s natural or synthetic, because that moiety can be substituted for other side groups that could improve drug uptake or whatever.

Other nerds would probably know more than I.

[quote name=Rice Cube]So epitestosterone apparently only differs at the carbon with the hydroxyl group…I’m not sure how it forms or which enzyme does it but the hydroxyl group basically just points the other way than testosterone. I think they’re just looking at that hydroxyl group for the most part to determine whether it’s natural or synthetic, because that moiety can be substituted for other side groups that could improve drug uptake or whatever.

Other nerds would probably know more than I.[/quote]Got it. So… did he do it?

[quote name=Rice Cube]NO WAI

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7338271/ryan-braun-milwaukee-brewers-tests-positive-performance-enhancing-drug/quote
Before I even read the full link (partial view of link on mobile site) can I guess? Is it drugs?

Yep its drugs. Not a shock with braun, but isnt this aabout the eleventy billionth story outside the lines has done on ped?

And hey guys.

[quote name=fang2415](dying laughing) I was more looking for like, how reliable are these tests, are they meaningfully disputable, will repeat tests or independent analysis change anything, etc. But I also appreciate the info on hydroxyl groups. (dying laughing)[/quote]I actually am not sure how one tests for steroids…given how the steroid molecule is set up I assume they just drop the pee onto a TLC plate and see where stuff migrates (dying laughing)

I wouldn’t trust anything I say as I’m not an expert, but I did ace organic chemistry

[quote name=Rice Cube]If it’s just the epimer, the body does that on its own so Braun might just be a mutant.

If it’s truly synthetic, then the only defense he has is the “tainted vitamin” defense.[/quote]Apparently some ESPN reporter suggested the “tainted candy bar” theory (dying laughing)

[quote name=Rice Cube]I wouldn’t trust anything I say as I’m not an expert, but I did ace organic chemistry [/quote]Sounds good. Until another nerd pipes up, I’ll just assume that anything you say is Truth. (dying laughing)

[quote name=Rice Cube]If it’s just the epimer, the body does that on its own so Braun might just be a mutant.

If it’s truly synthetic, then the only defense he has is the “tainted vitamin” defense.[/quote]Is there a way to be sure about whether it’s synthetic or not? How likely would false positives be for this kind of thing?

[quote name=fang2415]Is there a way to be sure about whether it’s synthetic or not? How likely would false positives be for this kind of thing?[/quote]I’m not smart enough to answer those questions (dying laughing)

Let’s see what Google says.

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder][/quote]So this proves that he’s a mutant right?

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Uncle Leo thinks you’re an antisemite.[/quote]Go drink a beer from a can.

[quote name=FonteYES]Go drink a beer from a can.[/quote]Truly, you are the Inspector Javert to my Jean Valjean.

(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)

For some reason, having FY back made me remember “these beer-from-can sipping Slipknot disciples.”

Such poetry. (dying laughing)

[quote name=fang2415]Got it. So… did he do it?[/quote]I would think so. If it’s true it’s synthetic, that is.

What somebody needs to report is the probability of false positives showing up given the large number of tests being performed.

[quote name=ACT]What somebody needs to report is the probability of false positives showing up given the large number of tests being performed.[/quote]I read something about that awhile back and it’s not uncommon. I don’t believe it’s common either, but it happens more than people think, which is why I think it’s bullshit this comes out without the appeal having been heard.

[quote name=FonteYES]I dont think Jean Valjean hated Lance Berkman as much as you.[/quote]I don’t think anyone hates Berkman as much as me. (dying laughing)

Maybe the Brewers can sign Manny Ramirez. I hear he’s coming out of retirement…

http://steroidreport.com/2008/03/22/testosterone-epitestosterone-ratio-test-false-negatives-and-false-positives/

I also couldn’t care less that Braun tested positive. He’ll miss 50 games, but did the Brewers now fail to win the NL Central in 2011? No. They won the division and Braun was fucking awesome. I don’t care how it happened. All I know is that it happened.

[quote name=mb21]I also couldn’t care less that Braun tested positive. He’ll miss 50 games, but did the Brewers now fail to win the NL Central in 2011? No. They won the division and Braun was fucking awesome. I don’t care how it happened. All I know is that it happened.[/quote]I’m more interested in 2012 now, as it’s likely the Brewers will take a hit if Braun’s test holds up. Cubs don’t need to get better if everyone else is shittier!

Braun was informed of the positive result in late October, so he’s been appealing this for a while.

[quote name=mb21]Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I know the basic argument against this is that these players agree to have this info released. Well, do they have any choice? In other words, can an athlete play their sport and refuse to have this information released? If not, they did not agree to anything.[/quote]I’m pretty sure most league have penalties for teams that don’t release this kind of info about their players.

[quote name=fang2415]I don’t think there was an official announcement, was there? It sounds like it leaked. Still bad of course, but not too much you can really do about it.[/quote]Who leaked it? This is something that the MLBPA should care about. Whoever leaked it should lose whatever job they have.

[quote name=ACT]Braun was informed of the positive result in late October, so he’s been appealing this for a while.[/quote]I just don’t like that it has come out. If it turns out it was a false positive, people will ignore that result. The only thing that matters at this point is whether he misses 50 games or not. His credibility is damaged either way.

They won’t force him to vacate the MVP, right?

I mean, Matt Kemp deserved to win, but I’m just saying that he was voted as MVP and they can’t exactly rescind that…or can they?

The MVP is Braun’s for the keeping.

[quote name=mb21]I just don’t like that it has come out. If it turns out it was a false positive, people will ignore that result. The only thing that matters at this point is whether he misses 50 games or not. His credibility is damaged either way.[/quote]Meh, I don’t know. If he’s exonerated enough for the league, people will “keep an eye on him”, but I don’t think they’ll mind too much (Brewers fans certainly won’t). He’ll get a few heckles… but it’s nothing like what would happen if he were accused and then acquitted of raping a ten-year-old.

*ducks*

[quote name=fang2415]Meh, I don’t know. If he’s exonerated enough for the league, people will “keep an eye on him”, but I don’t think they’ll mind too much (Brewers fans certainly won’t). He’ll get a few heckles… but it’s nothing like what would happen if he were accused and then acquitted of raping a ten-year-old.

*ducks*[/quote]Most Brewers fans aren’t going to care either way. At least not once he comes back and starts hitting home runs. If the team gets off to a rough start he could take a beating.

I guess I’d just rather be safe in this situation because even a hint of doing a performance enhancing drug sticks with the player through his entire playing career and after if he’s a Hall of Fame caliber player.

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Perhaps. But figure this info is very damaging to the league, and Bud would have wanted it released at a time when the fewest amount of eyes are on baseball. Today is a pretty good day, if someone was planning a leak of info they didn’t want a lot made of…[/quote]Good point.

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Didn’t I post the same thing in this thread? Damn you, Heckler! (dying laughing)[/quote]You did, thought you’d appreciate that.

Did you guys know you are #1 on the Google search when one types in “discredited blog”?

I think that’s something to be proud of.

[quote name=Rice Cube]Did you guys know you are #1 on the Google search when one types in “discredited blog”?

I think that’s something to be proud of.[/quote]That cost Aisle 424 a lot of money.

You have to search without the quotes.

Now it’s not working for me, either, but it did the first couple times I tried it.

[quote name=ACT]Now it’s not working for me, either, but it did the first couple times I tried it.[/quote]RC ruins everything. Now we’re number 2 because of him.

[quote name=mb21]RC ruins everything. Now we’re number 2 because of him.[/quote]No dinner again…

I I could care less that mb could care less. No one should care what am ex-addict, republican, statfag hick has to say.

For gods sake, the man tips cows for a pastime.

Ron Santo tribute number 8,324,019,231,999

http://www.sendspace.com/file/1oswkx

Zero fucks given about Braun taking PEDs. My first thought was that it could open up the NLC for the Cubs if they sign Fielder. But the Reds would probably still have the upper hand.

[quote name=mb21]The sum total of fucks given about Braun by MO and Berselius is zero.[/quote]
Mish posted this to fb earlier, gave me my morning (dying laughing)

a) it may result in a suspension

Baseball is worse without Ryan Braun so that’s a good point.

b) it is against the rules

Also a good point.

and may give the user an advantage over non-rule breakers (i.e., non-cheaters)

Players have advantages over other players. Do we want a league where all the players are equal? Albert Pujols has an advantage over Bryan LaHair. Prince Fielder was born with the advantage of being a very big man while Ryan Theriot was not. The argument that it’s about unfair advantages does nothing for me. The game isn’t fair and I don’t think it needs to be.

I mean, people would (rightly) cry that it’s unfair if one team got to start with a 1-run advantage or the rules were different for different teams, or the umpires gave players/teams preferential treatment. Saying life/baseball is to confuse two types of unfairness: the inherent unfairness of the game and life, and genuine injustice.

[quote name=ACT]I mean, people would (rightly) cry that it’s unfair if one team got to start with a 1-run advantage or the rules were different for different teams, or the umpires gave players/teams preferential treatment. Saying life/baseball is to confuse two types of unfairness: the inherent unfairness of the game and life, and genuine injustice.[/quote]To suppose that steroids, PEDs, etc represent a “genuine injustice” flies in the face of the available evidence. There’s nothing to suggest that steroids do anything to significantly boost a player’s performance. Wyers, to my mind, has demonstrated this quite effectively with his BACON research.

It would be a genuine injustice to have a rule that says anyone who gets caught doing PED’s and let Braun off the hook (assuming he is found guilty). Like the rule or not, it has to be enforced for everyone.

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]To suppose that steroids, PEDs, etc represent a “genuine injustice” flies in the face of the available evidence. There’s nothing to suggest that steroids do anything to significantly boost a player’s performance. Wyers, to my mind, has demonstrated this quite effectively with his BACON research.[/quote]
I know there have been several studies that have attempted to show the effect of steroids/hgh/PEDs and have failed to find evidence of a benefit. I don’t quite buy it though – it’s not that I don’t believe in statistical analysis, I just don’t think these studies have measured or controlled in the right way.

The truth of the matter is that being stronger helps human beings hit baseballs harder or further. That’s why players lift weights. That’s why players today are way the hell better than players from the past (on average). If being stronger didn’t help, the best baseball players in the world, with the best advisers, nutritionists, strength coaches, and doctors money can buy would stop trying to increase their strength by lifting weights. The fact that steroids helps a player do this means they enhance performance. If there are rules that say you can’t gain an advantage in this way, then players who are side-stepping or ignoring those rules are gaining an unfair, unjust advantage.

[quote name=26.2cubfan]I know there have been several studies that have attempted to show the effect of steroids/hgh/PEDs and have failed to find evidence of a benefit. I don’t quite buy it though – it’s not that I don’t believe in statistical analysis, I just don’t think these studies have measured or controlled in the right way.

The truth of the matter is that being stronger helps human beings hit baseballs harder or further. That’s why players lift weights. That’s why players today are way the hell better than players from the past (on average). If being stronger didn’t help, the best baseball players in the world, with the best advisers, nutritionists, strength coaches, and doctors money can buy would stop trying to increase their strength by lifting weights. The fact that steroids helps a player do this means they enhance performance. If there are rules that say you can’t gain an advantage in this way, then players who are side-stepping or ignoring those rules are gaining an unfair, unjust advantage.[/quote]Offering tautologies doesn’t help the case. These aren’t magic beans. They are drugs that increase strength and increased strength only helps when combined exceptional ability. If there is a benefit, it’s likely minimal and only available to players who are already pretty fucking good.

Yeah, the only outrage I’m feeling now is for whoever leaked the story before the verdict was in. If he is guilty, I’d be disappointed but not angry.

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]To suppose that steroids, PEDs, etc represent a “genuine injustice” flies in the face of the available evidence. There’s nothing to suggest that steroids do anything to significantly boost a player’s performance. Wyers, to my mind, has demonstrated this quite effectively with his BACON research.[/quote]Tango did too when he looked at home run rates a few years back on THT. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/changes-in-home-run-rates-during-the-retrosheet-years/

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Agreed. If Manny went away for 50 games, the Braun should, too. I just think the giddiness and moral outrage over this issue is wholly misplaced.[/quote]I agree. I briefly started looking into how different PED use is viewed in baseball and football and then gave up. Nobody gives a shit when an NFL player is busted and its use if far more prevalent. Eventually it will be the same way in baseball, but we’re not there yet and I look forward to the day we are. I don’t know who the last NFL player to test positive was and don’t care, but do a google search for his name and Ryan Braun’s. I’d even bet that you can find more google hits for a minor leaguer who tested positive for PEDs than you would for that NFL player.

[quote name=ACT]Yeah, the only outrage I’m feeling now is for whoever leaked the story before the verdict was in. If he is guilty, I’d be disappointed but not angry.[/quote]I’m pissed at whoever leaked the story, but I won’t be disappointed or outraged if it’s true. As the great Dusty Baker always said, it is what it is. Players cheat and they’ll continue to cheat. They’ll continue to steal signs, throw at a batter’s head (that’s cheating to me) and take steroids. Not to mention, pitchers take the shit too so really, what kind of an unfair advantage is there?

Braun did not take a PED: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135405518.html

And in the end, I believe that’s what it’s all about. Baseball fans want to see an on-field product where there’s a level playing field. If a player is naturally more talented than another, he should perform better, not because he is artificially enhanced. – Al Yellon: http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/12/11/2628106/ryan-braun-positive-ped-test-real-fallout/in/2391077

I know ACT brought it up, but I really don’t understand the fascination baseball fans have with a level playing field. As adults I think we know that people cheat and steal to better themselves without regard for those they’re passing. We unfortunately accept this behavior most of the time, but when it comes to a baseball player doing it, we’re outraged. I don’t get it. Life isn’t fair. Life doesn’t have a level playing field. I don’t know why sports should.

[quote name=26.2cubfan]They’ve got a source![/quote]It’s not a rumor!

Players wouldn’t take them if they didn’t think they helped. And players wouldn’t think they helped if they didn’t have some very knowledgeable people trying to convince them to do so.

Moises Alou peed on his hands because he thought it made him grip the bat better. Players say prayers to the man in the sky. They wear necklaces for good luck thinking it makes them play better. They wear the same jock for 8 days in a row during a winning streak thinking it helps them win. Players are dumber than shit. They think all kinds of things help when in fact it doesn’t. I do believe players believe PEDs help. They may help a little and probably help a lot more than the necklaces and pointing the sky that these guys do. It helps more than jumping over the chalk so you’re not stepping on a line (a crack). However, if we say steroids help because the players think they do then we also have to accept that peeing on one’s hand gives an unfair advantage, wearing the same jock day after day without washing it does too and wearing necklaces, a certain bracelet, or whatever else these guys do that they think helps them is also an unfair advantage.

Personally, I don’t care what the players think. The fact they think wearing necklaces and wearing dirty clothes helps them win is enough for me to never ever consider what they say as anything more than entertainment.

[quote name=mb21]Moises Alou peed on his hands because he thought it made him grip the bat better. Players say prayers to the man in the sky. They wear necklaces for good luck thinking it makes them play better. They wear the same jock for 8 days in a row during a winning streak thinking it helps them win. Players are dumber than shit. They think all kinds of things help when in fact it doesn’t. I do believe players believe PEDs help. They may help a little and probably help a lot more than the necklaces and pointing the sky that these guys do. It helps more than jumping over the chalk so you’re not stepping on a line (a crack). However, if we say steroids help because the players think they do then we also have to accept that peeing on one’s hand gives an unfair advantage, wearing the same jock day after day without washing it does too and wearing necklaces, a certain bracelet, or whatever else these guys do that they think helps them is also an unfair advantage.

Personally, I don’t care what the players think. The fact they think wearing necklaces and wearing dirty clothes helps them win is enough for me to never ever consider what they say as anything more than entertainment.[/quote]THIS x ∞

You have to be among the greatest baseball players in the world to make the bigs. if you’re already one of those players, taking PEDs makes you a tiny bit better. On the margins of baseball talent, that tiny bit can be worth millions of dollars. Taking these substances is a financial choice for these players, and it involves a great deal of risk. if they get caught, it hurts their value. If they don’t, some of them seem to believe it’s worth the risk.

The fact it is a risk precisely why I don’t care. It’s a calculated risk. Player A has chosen that steroids will earn him more money despite it also potentially costing him money. Player B chooses to use steroids because he wants to be popular even though it may make him hated. What does piss me off is that Ryan Braun is forever going to be linked to the positive steroid test even if it’s proven false. I don’t care if a player takes a steroid because whatever positive that may come out of it, I’m confident the risk doesn’t outweight the reward. Steroids destroy a person’s body. How many of these steroid users missed playing time in the field because of it? How much money did that cost them? How much money did it cost them to have been associated with steroids? So if some player wants to go for the benefit then I think he’s an idiot. More than likely it’s only going to cost him these days.

[quote name=26.2cubfan]That, and I think there are just as many pitchers using as there are hitters. And the effect isn’t only on strength, it’s also on recovery. It’s a complex issue. But to say that using doesn’t give players an advantage over players who don’t is unrealistic.[/quote]I think it can give them an advantage, but gaining an advantage is what sports is about. We can talk about whether it should be entirely talent based, but my point is that I don’t care how those advantages are achieved.

That being said, it’s against the rules and if someone is caught he should be penalized. In fact, I’m for much harsher penalties. If I was MLB I would turn the positive test over the federal government and let them investigate and prosecute. It’s not just against the rules in baseball, it’s an illegal act. If someone beats someone half to death on the baseball field, the player doesn’t just get suspended. He did something illegal and law enforcement will get involved. This is and always has been, in my opinion, a law enforcement issue and not a baseball issue.

[quote name=26.2cubfan]Sure, but getting caught wearing dirty socks doesn’t get you suspended for 50 games and lose you 31% of your salary. When there’s a financial risk involved, players are more likely to act rationally.[/quote]But we can’t know what the financial risk really is. How many top young prospects took steroids hoping for not a big payday, but a huge one only to find themselves on the DL year after year because of it? How many of those top prospects never even made it to the big leagues? We don’t know that and until we do we can’t say the financial risk is even worth it. i don’t think it is. If we asked Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds if it was worth it I think they would say no (if they were being honest). I’d even bet A-Rod would say the same thing. These are 3 of the greatest players to have ever played the game. I don’t think one of them would consider their decisions to have been worth it.

[quote name=mb21]I know ACT brought it up, but I really don’t understand the fascination baseball fans have with a level playing field.[/quote]It’s the whole point of why most people watch sports. People want to see games played under a certain set of rules. Maybe there are some people who like seeing people win by avoiding the rules, but for the vast majority, it takes away from the game. People want their teams to win by being better at playing (legally) and luckier than their opponents.

[quote name=mb21]It’s been my belief for a long time this has been about records (the home run record). This isn’t true for all fans. 26.2 and ACT haven’t brought up records once, which makes it easy to discuss the topic with them. But for many fans and especially the sportswriters this is about the record book.[/quote]
Yeah, I could give a shit about the records. Stats are comparable in the same era, not across eras. I like the history of baseball, and I will admit I get nostalgic about a past I didn’t even experience. Going to Cooperstown isn’t about WAR or ISO. But the game is so different now than it was in the 20s or 50s that it doesn’t mean anything to look at players across different eras. Records don’t matter to me as a result.

I was looking at all-time WAR on BP today and was amused how many of them were in the 1800s. I guess replacement level was a little different then when only white factory guys in a few towns were playing….

[quote name=ACT]It’s the whole point of why most people watch sports. People want to see games played under a certain set of rules. Maybe there are some people who like seeing people win by avoiding the rules, but for the vast majority, it takes away from the game. People want their teams to win by being better at playing (legally) and luckier than their opponents.[/quote]I think we’d all like that, but actually expecting it is naive. I don’t watch sports because they’re fair. I watch baseball because I love the game (fair or not) and I watch college football because I love the Iowa Hawkeyes and as a result have a lot of interest in CFB as a whole.

[quote name=Urk]I realize that arguing with Al’s points is like shooting fish in a barrel, but this whole widespread idea about the game being about “natural” talent levels is just absurd. How “natural’ is it for major league pitchers to be running around with pieces of their knee tendons in their elbows?[/quote]Or shooting themselves so full of cortisone (a “steroid,” BTW, although not the anabolic variety) that they can play with an injury.

Cortisone is a PED. It enhances one’s performance by allowing a player to play when he has an injury that would normally sideline a “regular” player. It makes for an uneven playing field. And yet it’s part of the sports lingo, as common a term as at-bat or hit. And it’s a PED. Plain and simple.

[quote name=Urk]I realize that arguing with Al’s points is like shooting fish in a barrel, but this whole widespread idea about the game being about “natural” talent levels is just absurd. How “natural’ is it for major league pitchers to be running around with pieces of their knee tendons in their elbows?[/quote]Agreed. It’s an accepted practice today, but in the early part of last century would have been absurd. This is another reason why I don’t care about steroids. In 50 or 100 years steroids will be safer and more commonly used. If safe one would presume they would be banned in baseball. Taking a Tylenol can eliminate a headache, which is likely to affect the performance of a player. We don’t have issues with that and I don’t expect we’ll have issues with steroids in sports in 50 or 100 years.

Was it here that somebody posted this?

http://baseballresearcher.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html

That TE ratio is a jimdandy. (dying laughing)

[quote name=fang2415]Was it here that somebody posted this?

http://baseballresearcher.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html

That TE ratio is a jimdandy. (dying laughing)[/quote]I don’t think so here, but I know I posted this one on ACB several times: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5314753

I wonder what isn’t a PED but still elevates testosterone like that

[quote name=Berselius]

this could get more interesting[/quote]
Well, maybe not as interesting as I thought. I misread the headline I saw thinking it said it was a mlb-provided substance instead of mlb-prohibited. Reading fail (dying laughing)

[quote name=mb21]I’m fine with the rule. I’m glad baseball has one since steroids are not yet a safe drug. I believe it’s MLB’s responsibility to protect the health of their employees in the same ways other business are required to. I don’t have a problem with the rule. As I mentioned, my penalty for using would be even stricter than the current one, but I’d also extend that rule to cover all ways to cheat. Spitting on a baseball led to the deadball era. It makes the game far more unfair than taking some steroids. If this is about fairness then that should be punished more (not less) than steroids.[/quote]Well, the point is that steroids are more dangerous to players’ health than spitballs (not counting that guy who died from a HBP, since that ball had a lot more than spit on it, (dying laughing)).

But yeah, I basically agree with you. But I also kind of don’t see what the big deal is here. If Braun actually broke the rules to gain a competitive advantage, fair enough to think less of him, the same way I think less of Matt Holliday for running halfway into center field in order to put his spikes into the zillion-dollar legs of a 20-year-old who’s trying to stay out of the fishing business.

[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder][/quote]Well, it’s not like Braun was smoking enough weed to prevent him from holding his eyes really, really wide open.

And FWIW, I don’t think any less of Holliday after that slide just as I don’t think any less of Bonds, A-Rod and now Braun. The reason for this is relatively simple. I can’t hold them to standards I’m simply unwilling to hold Cubs players to. I might be disappointed if Marlon Byrd slid in the manner that Holliday did, but I’d forget about it in about 7 minutes. I’d tell people who bring it up to stop complaining. I’d more than likely argue it wasn’t a dirty slide.

I was a huge Sosa fan for a long time as many others were and there’s just no way that steroids or leaving the final day of the season is changing that opinion. I’ve been a huge Zambrano fan since 2003 and I’ve defended him and defended him. I’d not have done that if Zambrano was a Cardinal. I’d probably call him the same names that Cardinals and Brewers fans do. I won’t care if Castro tries to take a SS out even if it’s dirty because that’s but one play out of the hundreds I hope to enjoy.

I’m a big fan of Ryan Braun and will remain one. I’ve enjoyed watching him hit baseballs a long way since he came up. He makes many things look easy and I love that. Since I’m not willing to treat Cubs fans the same as I might a player on another team I do my best to say as little about other players as I can.

(dying laughing) are you sure that’s not from The Onion?

[quote name=mb21]If someone is instead arguing about it from the perspective of what the player accomplished then I don’t.
…
We think the game is more pure than it is. We think it should be more pure. What we don’t consider is what the players want, or in fact what they did not want until recently.[/quote]
Yeah. I do think it’s okay to want sports to be “fair” in the sense that whatever rules are agreed upon should apply equally. But I think the best point for your “this is bullshit” argument is that what people care about is neither competitive fairness nor health, but Roger Maris’s time-honored record. And that is bullshit.

He should not be anymore despised than an alcoholic is. These are young people and they make mistakes.

Not sure if I buy that, because nobody’s getting mloaded for a competitive advantage. Nobody (except possibly Piniella) gave a shit when Soto got caught smoking some weed, because if anything it made him worse at baseball. It might have been a problem for Soto, but it wasn’t helping him at the expense of anybody else.

Agree that people make mistakes though. IMO even if the facts show that Braun knowingly used, he should serve his suspension and that’s that.

(dying laughing) at this Tebow picture on the front page of the Trib

[quote name=mb21]And FWIW, I don’t think any less of Holliday after that slide just as I don’t think any less of Bonds, A-Rod and now Braun. The reason for this is relatively simple. I can’t hold them to standards I’m simply unwilling to hold Cubs players to. I might be disappointed if Marlon Byrd slid in the manner that Holliday did, but I’d forget about it in about 7 minutes. I’d tell people who bring it up to stop complaining. I’d more than likely argue it wasn’t a dirty slide.

I was a huge Sosa fan for a long time as many others were and there’s just no way that steroids or leaving the final day of the season is changing that opinion. I’ve been a huge Zambrano fan since 2003 and I’ve defended him and defended him. I’d not have done that if Zambrano was a Cardinal. I’d probably call him the same names that Cardinals and Brewers fans do. I won’t care if Castro tries to take a SS out even if it’s dirty because that’s but one play out of the hundreds I hope to enjoy.

I’m a big fan of Ryan Braun and will remain one. I’ve enjoyed watching him hit baseballs a long way since he came up. He makes many things look easy and I love that. Since I’m not willing to treat Cubs fans the same as I might a player on another team I do my best to say as little about other players as I can.[/quote](dying laughing) Sometimes it’s hard to believe that you’re a Cubs fan rather than a Yankee fan. (dying laughing)

Anyway I can see why people get a little bit worked up about this shit but I agree it’s overblown. I like Braun too and probably still will no matter how this comes out.

I don’t think it’s ever cool to try to injure another player though. IMO that shit should be penalized far worse than rubbing some cream on your skin.

To illustrate: which of these things is not like the others?

VS

VS

QED

(dying laughing) Sometimes it’s hard to believe that you’re a Cubs fan rather than a Yankee fan. (dying laughing)

The Yankees are my second favorite team if that helps you understand. I’m not sure why you’d say that though. What I said was, basically, that I was unwilling to judge other team’s players in ways that I’m not willing to judge Cubs players. I think the primary difference between me in that sense and the average fan is that most fans are willing and even eager to dislike players on other teams for whatever reason. Not that it makes those people wrong or like a left-handed Marlon Byrd, but I think it’s easy to understand. I’m not going to criticize Braun because he has a tendency to enjoy his home runs when Soriano poses for his.

I don’t think it’s ever cool to try to injure another player though. IMO that shit should be penalized far worse than rubbing some cream on your skin.

I agree, but where did Holliday say he was trying to hurt Castro? He was trying to break up the double play. He wasn’t trying to hurt him. That it was a poor slide and looked much worse than it was doesn’t mean it was his intention to hurt him. Carlos Zambrano intended to hurt Chipper Jones. Kerry Wood intentionally nailed that one Reds batter in the head. Kyle Farnsworth intended to hurt Paul Wilson and did. I don’t remember any Cubs fans complaining about Farnsworth or Wood. I know I didn’t.

WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW, DENVER?

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/11/ryan-brauns-testosterone-levels-were-insanely-high-says-source-familiar-with-the-case?utm_source=dlvr.it

sources close to the 2011 National League MVP have suggested to Teri Thompson of the New York Daily News that the results of the positive test were too high to be taken seriously. As in, they were at a dangerous level

The defense is having a nice day today at least (dying laughing)

The Yankees are my second favorite team if that helps you understand. I’m not sure why you’d say that though.

I mostly just meant that you don’t care much what a team does or how even the playing field is as long as they beat the living shit out of whoever they’re playing (in the score, I mean, not physically (dying laughing)).

As for the part that is about beating people up physically (dying laughing), you could be right about intentional HBPs, although it does depend on the details and I don’t remember the specific circumstances around those. I think most HBPs are actually less dangerous than a bad slide though, since the fielder’s unprotected ankle can snap pretty easy. Mind you, with stuff like that, the players themselves tend to enforce the rules pretty strictly, usually by simply drilling the guy at the next opportunity. I still think Holliday’s going to get a low throw in the teeth from a shortstop one of these days.

Also, Z’s throw at Chipper Jones wasn’t in any particularly dangerous area, and Cubs fans haven’t exactly forgotten about that one…

Aaron Rodgers is playing at a secret difficulty level below “rookie” on Madden

If Tebow could throw a ball accurately and Denaryius Thomas could catch, the Bears would be down 7-0.

Methinks Oakland probably regrets trading away the future for Carson Palmer now.

This is kind of interesting:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/12/11/2625991/traditional-managing-index-results-2011-nl

As much crap as Quade got, he actually called less sac bunts by position players and less IBBs than the average NL manager. Naturally the pitcher autobunts so I guess that’s why those weren’t counted.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ken-davidoff-s-baseball-insider-1.1278117/more-on-ryan-braun-1.3382045

1. This is the first time that such a big name’s failed drug test became public well before the matter’s resolution. Good job by ESPN. But now we’re going to have to wait a while.

Yeah. Big kudos on the unwarranted and probably illegal invasion of privacy.

[quote name=Berselius]RC has no $$$[/quote]
/sad

How are the Bears out of timeouts already?

I guess the Packers’ D is good today too.

shoulda had Tebow kick it

Bears’d

Time for Hester to run one back now (dying laughing)

Wait, did the Bears just call a TO to give DEN a chance to challenge that play? Sure looked like that ball hit the ground on the replay.

Guess my eyes are lyin’

Unreal. More Tebow Magic™

Peppers is being held on every passing play.

Wow.

[quote name=GW](dying laughing)[/quote]Oh, get fucked. (dying laughing)

Pretty cool how the Bears were able to encapsulate exactly what it’s like to be a Cub fan in the span of 10 minutes.

[quote name=Rice Cube]This is kind of interesting:

http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2011/12/11/2625991/traditional-managing-index-results-2011-nl

As much crap as Quade got, he actually called less sac bunts by position players and less IBBs than the average NL manager. Naturally the pitcher autobunts so I guess that’s why those weren’t counted.[/quote]Yeah, I didn’t think Quade was too bad tactically. I actually think he was worse in terms of managing personalities (both players and press) than he was in terms of in-game strategy. Maybe he could have done better with using the bullpen. But other than that… he was just kind of lame, really.

I watched the Holliday play about 46 dozen times and I don’t think he was out of the base paths. He could reach 2nd base and that’s supposedly what they go by. The issue with that slide was his leg being elevated. One thing that infielders can do to baserunners is they can throw the ball right at them. I think it was Jeter who got nailed right in the fact by a shortstop several years back because he was in the base paths and the SS was trying to turn two. I bet it was the last time Jeter ever didn’t slide or get the fuck out the base path. Maybe it was Jeter who threw the ball. I don’t really remember. I know Jeter was involved. Next time Holliday does something like that the shortstop needs to make Holliday pay. He won’t do it again.

That’s the type of play where I’m perfectly happy allowing the players to police the game the way they see fit.

that’s just me though.

Just watched the Holliday play again. When it happened I was listening to the WGN audio so I hadn’t heard McCarver’s call before now that the play was legal, and I disagree with him too. I think it’s unlikely Holliday could’ve touched the base on that play, but more important, the runner has a responsibility to slide into the base and Holliday didn’t until he was past it. If it’s a borderline call the umps should err on the side of player safety, and if they don’t call it, Holliday should be drilled at the next opportunity, no question.

Giants doing a good job setting themselves up for the inevitable blowout loss to the shitty Redskins next week.

GB ——> home-field throughout
NO ——–> first-round bye
SF —————-> one and done in the playoffs
NYG —————————–> best chance to upset GB and rep the NFC in ther Super Bowl
ATL ————————-> Who fuckin’ cares?
DET ———————————————-> fagets
CHI —————————————————————> ??????

[quote name=Dr. Aneus Taint]GB ——> home-field throughout
NO ——–> first-round bye
SF —————-> one and done in the playoffs
NYG —————————–> best chance to upset GB and rep the NFC in ther Super Bowl
ATL ————————-> Who fuckin’ cares?
DET ———————————————-> fagets
CHI —————————————————————> ??????[/quote]
Yeah that about sums it up. I’m kind of glad that the Bears lost so they don’t have to squeak into the playoffs and get our hopes up just to fail miserably.

[quote name=work sucks]Non tender deadline is today. Hopefully we waive a mutilated-hand goodbye to Koy Hill. Also reminds me that I would have thought that a platoon of Baker and DeWitt could do as well as Stewart at 3B. I guess Stewart offers the potential for more power.[/quote]A cold feeling in the pit of my stomach is telling me that they’re going to keep Koyie Hill.

[quote name=fang2415]MLBTR lists Gorzelanny as a non-tender candidate. I didn’t realize he was so shitty last year. Once again Hendry looks smart.[/quote]Now that I look, it’s tough to see why he did have a shitty year. His HR rate was up a little from 2010, but his Ks were up, his BBs were down, his FIP went up slightly (3.92 to 4.19), but his ERA actually dropped (4.09 to 4.03). Not quite as many innings in 2011 (105 vs 136), but it’s hard to see why his fWAR went from 2.2 in 2010 to .7 last year… Did the league get that much better or something?

Strange that he’d be up for a non-tender. Unless I’m missing something I wouldn’t mind having him back in the rotation over Lopez or even Wells. Do it, Nats.

Remember that fit I threw last week? If they tender Koyie Hill a contract you’re probably thinking I’ll throw an even bigger fit. Nope. That’s the point where I stop caring again.

[quote name=fang2415]A cold feeling in the pit of my stomach is telling me that they’re going to keep Koyie Hill.[/quote]Hill was non-tendered.

[quote name=mb21]Remember that fit I threw last week? If they tender Koyie Hill a contract you’re probably thinking I’ll throw an even bigger fit. Nope. That’s the point where I stop caring again.[/quote]Climb back in off the ledge.

[quote name=ACT]Hill was non-tendered.[/quote]Thank goodness it’s December and not April.

Is there a list of non-tenders up somewhere? mlbtr still just has its list of “candidates”.

[quote name=ACT]Ah, I should have read that more carefully. I was just reading the list without reading the description. Sorry for getting everyone’s hopes up. He’ll probably be non-tendered, though.[/quote]BOOOOOOOOOOOO

If it doesn’t happen now I’m blaming you. (dying laughing)

MB, climb back out onto the ledge. (dying laughing)

[quote name=fang2415]Is there a list of non-tenders up somewhere? mlbtr still just has its list of “candidates”.[/quote]
that’s the same thing I’m seeing, potential list only