Let the Dominos Fall…Please?

In Uncategorized by Rice Cube243 Comments

Among other rumors flying around, the big one that got everyone’s interest was this bit from Kaplan (and others):

Put your money where your mouth is

Whether you believe it is because the Cubs don’t want to deal with another season of losing/biblical losses, or that Papa Ricketts’ heart grew three sizes that day and Tom got an advance on his allowance, the consensus once again is that the Cubs are for real and they want to spend. Although we won’t know for probably at least a couple more days, the first domino apparently has fallen with the Cody Bellinger deal that was just reported:

This represents a discount from the projected arbitration salary although Bellinger was non-tendered by the Dodgers last month, so this is a more expensive version of a reclamation-style pillow contract, but it does get a lefty bat, a capable center fielder, and a player with former MVP potential hopefully still in his body into the mix. Based on that salary, that leaves the Cubs at least another $80MM to throw around before they hit the luxury tax threshold, so here’s to them signing all the shortstops and pitchers. Maybe a catcher too. Trade for some if possible, I don’t care, just do more!

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  1. Author
    Rice Cube

    I don’t like this one as much, gonna guess it’s of the minor league with an invite or a super low amount

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  2. Author
    Rice Cube

    dmick89,

    The last few to do so got a visit from the goon squad so I’m not sure how much MLB actually cares, however they have been known to bow to pressure i.e. the forming of the minor league union

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  3. Smokestack Lightning

    Hooray! New sport player for Chicago team!

    +1 sez the great Phil Rogers and with vigor.

    For my part, I am amused the Cubs signed a great defensive OF with a wrecked swing the same offseason they finally said goodbye to another great defensive OF… with a wrecked swing.

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  4. Author
    Rice Cube

    dmick89,

    My guess is that because it’s a mutual option, it won’t be exercised no matter what, so if that’s the case then it’s a straight $17.5MM for the luxury tax number regardless of what the option cost is

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  5. uncle dave

    I have also not hit a baseball in the last two years, am I worth $17.5MM? Guess I’m lacking a bit with the glove and my range isn’t what it used to be now that I’m 48.

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  6. andcounting

    dmick89,

    As dumb as that man sounds, and is, he is probably more deserving of a vote than most other republican politicians. That isn’t saying a whole lot about him, but he is an obvious puppet of his party. Someone who votes for him is voting for boilerplate Republican policy as far as that even exists anymore. So many of their candidates run on a platform of just being absolutely terrible human beings. The prototypical Republican candidate runs on a platform of actively wanting to destroy huge chunks of the American population and or entire sections of the constitution. I would rather vote for a total moron than someone who is both a fascist and a moron. As terrible a candidate as Herschel Walker is, he might be in the top 5% most acceptable Republican candidates .

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  7. BVS

    (dying laughing). Apparently the Walker campaign had to ask an Atlanta reported for Warnock’s phone number so Hersh can concede.

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  8. berselius

    Smokestack Lightning:
    Hooray! New sport player for Chicago team!

    +1 sez the great Phil Rogers and with vigor.

    For my part, I am amused the Cubs signed a great defensive OF with a wrecked swing the same offseason they finally said goodbye to another great defensive OF… with a wrecked swing.

    Maybe our 500th hitting coach over the past 5 seasons will be the one to finally unfuck some swings.

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  9. berselius

    andcounting: I would rather vote for a total moron than someone who is both a fascist and a moron.

    I mean, TFG was the one who backed his candidacy, let’s not give Walker a shred of credit here (dying laughing).

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  10. Author
    Rice Cube

    So let’s call it $35MM between Bellinger and Taillon, there’s about $60MM more they can blow on Correa/Senga/whoever or they can go full Dombrowski and just sign everyone, damn the luxury tax

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  11. Perkins

    dmick89:
    Without Correa, I’m not sure this makes sense.

    I’d say Correa or Bogaerts, but agree they need a big bat shortstop for the offseason to be a success.

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  12. andcounting

    If hitting 62 home runs in a single season can’t even get you more than $40 million a year, what are we even doing here in the United States of America?

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  13. Author
    Rice Cube

    Depending on which talking head is doing the talking, Correa might be the Cubs’ primary target and Senga might still be in play but now that Judge is off the board, all bets may be off

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  14. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    In all seriousness, the Judge deal and the Turner deal set up negotiating anchors for whatever Correa can expect to get. He’s not going to get Judge money, and teams have to think he’s closer to Turner in value than he is to Judge. There’s a $60 million window there (although it sounds like Turner left $340ish million on the table from San Diego). There shouldn’t be a ton of mystery about what he ends up getting, the only serious question is from whom he will get it.

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  15. Author
    Rice Cube

    Formerly and probably still sorta elite closer gets some money

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  16. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    Couple years older (33) than Taillon. Almost like he’s getting the back end of that contract (the cheaper half—even if the pay is distributed over 4 years for Taillon they’re probably expecting his actual production to be a bit front-loaded). Not a great deal for Quintana, but he hasn’t had a full season of looking good in quite a while either. If he had done what he did for the Cardinals for a whole year instead of a half, he might have gotten more. Guess he’ll have to drive for Uber Eats in the offseason.

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  17. andcounting

    The Padres offered Judge $400 million? And they offered Turner $342 million. And they got neither of them?

    Who’s doing their negotiations, Dr. Evil?

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  18. Perkins

    I get that the Cardinals need a catcher and Contreras needs money, but in his position I’d be very wary of signing up to replace a longterm franchise catcher and play in front of fans who seem to be a bit more racist and meatball than average and who think Molina is a Hall of Famer.

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  19. berselius

    Perkins,

    Especially when said fans have been wanking to catcher defense intangibles* for the past two decades. I love Willson but the Venn diagram between his and Yadi’s strengths is pretty slim.

    *yes I know these are more tangible now, but I don’t think the average Cardinals fan has ever cared (dying laughing)

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  20. andcounting

    Perkins,

    They worship their players, though. I’m sure after talking with enough St. Louis reps he’s convinced he’ll get the Pujols/Molina treatment, not the Dexter Fowler treatment.

    I think the shittiest thing of all is that Willson will probably thrive there and end up getting personally coached by Yadi or something and turn into the greatest framer/game caller of all time. Contreras/Arenado/Goldschmidt in whatever order they hit with the rest of that supporting cast are going to be murder. And I will be forced to be happy for Willson every time they sweep the Cubs.

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  21. Author
    Rice Cube

    andcounting,

    The saddest thing is that if they had waited another season or two, his strength behind the plate to control the running game (pitch clock) and the automatic umpire (2024) would have negated the need to frame so well, plus from what I’ve read his pitchers didn’t exactly hate him, but maybe that’s just being a good teammate and they secretly hated working with him because he sucked at stuff, who the hell knows anymore

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  22. berselius

    berselius:
    andcounting,

    This ghost died on the “Randy Wells is still good, actually” hill and has been lingering ever since.

    I stand corrected, that ghost was actually from the “Jose Quintana is still good, actually” hill. Those responsible have been sacked.

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  23. dmick89

    Someone pointed out yesterday on Twitter that even if SD did offer $40 million more to Turner, after taxes he’d have received a few million less than he’s going to get from Texas. I would guess the same is true with Judge and SD. For Turner I also imagine the cost of living is higher in SD.

    Or the person I saw it from is full of shit and the Padres need to hire some new people.

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  24. Perkins

    dmick89,

    State and local taxes are definitely a thing, though in Judge’s case it’s not a wide gulf between NY and CA – both have very high taxes. Guessing with Turner he’ll net the same or more in PA, though.

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  25. andcounting

    Perkins,

    I think the effect of taxation differences in general for pro athletes get exaggerated in that people have to pay taxes in the states where they perform their work. The advantage of any one state applies only to their home games

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  26. berselius

    andcounting:
    Perkins,

    I think the effect of taxation differences in general for pro athletes get exaggerated in that people have to pay taxes in the states where they perform their work. The advantage of any one state applies only to their home games

    All these states have to raise money somehow, fwiw. Paying no income taxes while I lived in TX was nice, but cost of living sucked ass (dying laughing). Though once you’re past a certain point it probably doesn’t matter.

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  27. andcounting

    berselius,

    As always, I volunteer to receive an income well beyond whatever that certain point is and will give a full report on the difference I find it to have made.

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  28. dmick89

    andcounting,

    But where do they do their work? Is it just the 162 games even though that is a relatively small fraction of the amount of work they put in? Do Arizona and Florida come into play for the 8+ weeks that player live in those states preparing for the season? What about the off-season when Ricky goes to Arizona to rehab and plays in the AFL and then travels to Venezuela for the Winter League? Is it really just some itemized mess like that? If it is then it probably doesn’t matter much, but we also know it does matter because some players and agents have said that’s why players chose Texas or avoided Canada.

    Truthfully, most established stars work from home. That’s where a majority of their work is done. In the gyms and batting cages they put in the basement of their family houses.

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  29. Perkins

    berselius,

    Oh I’m not arguing against that. I live in NYC and have no problem with my high taxes, largely because I can see where they’re going and like having services that benefit people.

    The only state with no income tax I’d ever really consider is Washington because I like Seattle, but you couldn’t pay me enough to live somewhere like Texas or Florida.

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  30. Perkins

    dmick89,

    Most pro athletes would pay a pro-rated portion of state taxes based on where they’ve worked, the bulk would be based on their residence, but all those road trips count for states they’d need to file in (barring some shorter term exemptions for places where maybe they only play a week’s worth of games).

    I’m a consultant and traveled a ton for work pre-pandemic, so I’ve usually had to file in multiple states. One year I got up to four or five.

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  31. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    Between catcher, centerfield, and first base, this team is going to have some really big holes in the batting order. Maybe they do need to get two of these guys. (dying laughing)

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  32. andcounting

    Rice Cube:
    andcounting,

    If you believe that Bellinger can hit better than the in-house options, then technically it is already an upgrade

    I was thinking of him when I said, there was a hole in the batting order, (dying laughing). Anything is possible, and it’s definitely not out of the realm of reasonability to think he could bounce back, but there’s no reason to count on that. I just think it is a pill the team is willing to swallow for the benefit of his defense.

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  33. Author
    Rice Cube

    andcounting,

    He did hit 19 homers so that’s at least something, could be better but allegedly he is at least a league average CF and apparently teams are paying up for league average these days, baseball economics is weird!

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  34. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    Eh, there’s really nothing substantial out there. The theories and “this is what I’m hearing” stories are pretty much straight conjecture.

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  35. berselius

    Rice Cube:
    The beat folks are making it sound like the Cubs are gonna have to pull off a coup to get the last big names on the board

    That’s one way to get this ownership group on board.

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  36. andcounting

    Perkins,

    I mean, this isn’t me saying you can’t believe the reporters and their sources in general. The rumors circulating right now are a bunch of reporters purely speculating based on the same information everyone has reported over the past 24 hours plus.

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  37. berselius

    Perkins,

    Well, he’s kind of had it in for me, since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly,” and replace “dog” with “son.”

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  38. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    I calls ‘em likes I sees ‘em.

    I do think the note that the Dodgers are out on Correa is substantial. But most of the buzz is just stuff about the Padres and Giants needing to do something after missing on literally everyone.

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  39. Author
    Rice Cube

    The Cubs have a floor of solid-to-very good pitching so now they need to work on scoring more than four runs a game. I guess they could try to ride their pitching for a bit but I also think it’s a bit too optimistic to count on the guys from Iowa to be your offensive upgrade come midseason.

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  40. BVS

    berselius:
    Florida also has no income tax, but I think having to live in Florida at all is a tax in itself.

    Amen to that. I live in SC, which is pretty bad, but even without the politics Florida is terrible. Heat, storms, floods, traffic, sinkholes, etc.

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  41. Author
    Rice Cube

    The Cubs playing everything so close to the chest while every other team leaks stuff to Jon Heyman so he can fuck up a tweet is not good for my mental fan health

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  42. BVS

    Perkins,

    Really? That’s nuts. You work for a company (or self-employed) where your assigned place of work is in NY, and you live in NY, but when you go on a business trip you have to pay income tax there? Doesn’t the money go to your account in NY? Is there a certain number of days you have to be there before you have to pay tax in another state? What if you consult to Calif for example by Zoom?

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  43. Perkins

    BVS,

    I work for a large consulting firm. It’s only when I’m physically in another state that I have to pay state income tax there, and it’s not actually that bad: it’s a pro-rated amount based on how many days I work in that state, and those days are deducted from my NY tax burden. It’s mostly just a pain to file multiple state returns.

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  44. berselius

    Perkins,

    How long do you spend out of state? IIRC when this came up for remote workers here it was something like a month. And if you worked longer term out of state or the country you technically ‘work’ for a subcontractor.

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  45. BVS

    Perkins,

    I work for a university, but I do research in Puerto Rico. I wonder if the month or so I’m there should be deducted from my federal tax. Hmmm.

    Of course, PR tax is ridiculous…

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  46. Perkins

    berselius,

    When I was traveling, my normal model was M-Th every week, and my projects typically last between 2 and 12 months. Every state has somewhat different rules though. I remember one project I had to go to multiple locations and didn’t have to file in Virginia because I only went there for a couple weeks.

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  47. Perkins

    BVS,

    It would get deducted from your state taxes in your own state. It only impacts federal if you pay enough state taxes to qualify for the SALT deduction (which I think was restored in the past couple years).

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  48. Author
    Rice Cube

    BVS,

    It’s a players market and I sincerely hope they stay good for a good chunk of it for the sake of the ones who follow (but probably not and then all the owners are gonna freak out about spending again)

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  49. Author
    Rice Cube

    dmick89,

    Given what they just said in that tweet and in the end-of-season letter and pressers, they kind of just need to break the bank on a Correa-plus now. Might as well get Rodon too haha

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  50. andcounting

    I wonder if Correa is getting impatient at all. He waited out the entire offseason and the lockout rush with a new agent and came away with a one-year deal with a small-market team. That wait probably will pay off, given the deals we’re seeing this time around, but there sure are a lot of big contracts out there without his name on them. If he’s still patient with $350 million on the line, I definitely wouldn’t mind seeing him at the plate with two outs in the 9th and the bases full of Cubs.

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  51. Author
    Rice Cube

    FYI to the jabroni contingent, an email has been sent out to gauge your availability for the next podcast get-together wherein we either celebrate or sharpen our pitchforks, come one come all, the more the merrier etc etc

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  52. BVS

    Rice Cube,

    So I was having trouble understanding the brand name “Mo Crate” in the ad. And I thought he was saying Milk Crate, which is how I furnished my apartments from undergrad thru age 32. They are flexible, but MoCrates are nicer looking for sure.

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  53. Author
    Rice Cube

    BVS,

    I did have subtitles on and it did say “milk crate” but if it were me I’d just get some plywood and cinder blocks from Home Depot for cheaper and MacGyver it myself

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  54. uncle dave

    Perkins,

    Sorry to drag us back on topic, but I don’t think SALT ever went away, it just got capped at $10K. I try very hard not to complain about my good fortune as a California homeowner, but as a recent California homeowner I have to pay my neighbors’ property taxes and I get absolutely boned on the cap. Anyway.

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  55. Author
    Rice Cube

    I just came back to say that I might try to workshop how to wrest Sean Murphy from the A’s with Adbert and some other prospects that might hurt later on, sorry to be off topic.

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  56. uncle dave

    Rice Cube,

    No, I think it’s marvelous. Nine times out of ten I see something that’s cool and would dramatically increase someone’s quality of life and I’m just like, “hey, must be in the Netherlands!” Fuck those people for making their lives better in ways that we’d never even dream of (dying laughing).

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  57. Perkins

    The Rickettses and front office may want to cancel their Cubs convention if they don’t sign Correa. Unless they like being showered with boos and rotten fruit, that is.

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  58. andcounting

    dmick89,

    We’ll see how it plays out once the other two shortstops sign, but unlike the failed attempts by the Padres, Giants, and Red Sox, there have been no reports about offers the Cubs have made only to be turned down. At least Giants and Padres fans know they made huge offers to Judge or that the Padres offered more than the Phillies did to get Turner. The Cubs have just leaked their intent to spend but no specifics on actual offers. While negotiations are still ongoing it doesn’t matter, but if they go 0-4 at SS and we don’t hear that they offered the moon, there’s no point in having the convention.

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  59. Author
    Rice Cube

    Two possibilities with little in between:

    1. Jed has all the money and can buy big free agents as they’re available
    2. Jed is being set up for a major fall

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  60. Author
    Rice Cube

    If the last time (which killed 95% of the 108 jokes) is any indication, should the Cubs actually throw $450MM at Correa or whatever, they’ll make it back in spades after the World Series championship(s) so yes, they should just do it

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  61. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    Two things:
    1. No matter what discussions the Rickettseses and Jed had, do you think they expected the $300 million AND the 10-year ceilings would get shattered right off the bat? They weren’t in on the Judge race, they never let the figure $400 million in their sights. Once the Padres and Giants started throwing out offers to Judge, they entered a different mind space than everyone else. Will the Cubs get there? Maybe they we’re prepared to spend actually big and not just “what they expected big to be” big. But I don’t think so.

    That said, the fact that so many big names who haven’t signed means those guys and their agents still think they can get more than what they’ve been offered so far. It’s not the worst sign in the world that nothing much has happened since the meetings ended.

    I forgot what the second thing was.

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  62. Author
    Rice Cube

    andcounting,

    I feel like this front office is dumb if they didn’t anticipate it even if us peasants didn’t, they have far more info than we do, especially when we have to rely on rubes like Heymanfor info

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  63. andcounting

    andcounting,
    Oh, and the MLBPA should go ahead and name Dave Dombrowski their president because I’m not sure anyone has done as much as he has to make sure the players get what they’re asking for.

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  64. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    That’s kind of assuming that these things can be known in advance. I’m pretty certain there was a front office exec poll going around that predicted numbers way less than this.

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  65. Author
    Rice Cube

    I’m just saying that if they were going to do all this and double down and not walk it back, they should hopefully have the funds to justify it and make something happen

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  66. BVS

    So many of these contracts scream the potential to be Kevin Brown or Stephen Strasburg albatrosses. Probably all of them. Some will be bad because of poor performance (Heyward-type albatrossiness) but others from injury. I’m thinking that the next union contract should allow contracts that are being paid by insurance to be excluded from the luxury tax. Also some personal services option that would allow a player to retire but still get paid for whatever they negotiated. That would help teams continue to pay players, teams to continue to be competitive instead of held down by sunk costs in luxury tax, and players to get good (amazing!) contracts.

    There are probably tons of problems with this, but I haven’t thought it through. 🙂

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  67. Author
    Rice Cube

    BVS,

    I think this CBA attempted to get the 0-3 players way more money so they can at least recoup some earnings that they won’t get because the tech Bros hate free agency but more should probably be done, also I’m still for a salary floor

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  68. andcounting

    BVS,

    Rice Cube,

    I would expect owners to play with the boundaries of “injury” the same way GMs finagle them to manipulate their rosters. That said, insurance companies tend to be pretty good at demanding receipts, so the chicanery would have its limits.

    Imposing a salary floor would be perfectly easy to legislate if the owners were forced to open their books. The fact that they don’t have to is ludicrous. The debates about what players deserve to be paid would pretty much cease at that point.

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  69. BVS

    Rice Cube,

    I think the issues were based on wanting a unicorn.

    Framing stats, as I recall, were wildly variable over the years on Willson. If Lester liked him enough to recommend him to the Cards, that says a lot in my book. Of course, Lester needed Willson’s arm, but prior to Willson he worked with Ross, and I don’t recall Ross’s pickoff/CS numbers being amazing.

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  70. BVS

    andcounting,

    From the Athletic’s article about signing Taillon:

    SAN DIEGO — When qualifying offers were handed out, the Cubs quickly whittled down their list of top pitching targets. The price for Chris Bassitt or Nathan Eovaldi wasn’t going to make sense to them if it meant giving up a draft pick along with what’s turned into contracts that are almost double what some front offices were originally expecting.

    There you go.

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  71. Author
    Rice Cube

    I saw some Twitter conversations suggesting that if they can swap out Gomes and Madrigal, the Cubs as currently constructed with Bellinger in tow should be at average (i.e. >100 wRC+) so the contingency, I suppose, is to make sure the pitching infrastructure can keep this offense in the game often enough. This also means they should do their best to make sure Stroman isn’t the #1 starter, since they didn’t spend money to buy a good bat. I would prefer to shore up the offense rather than relying on pitching that could break down at any point, however.

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  72. berselius

    andcounting:
    andcounting,
    Oh, and the MLBPA should go ahead and name Dave Dombrowski their president because I’m not sure anyone has done as much as he has to make sure the players get what they’re asking for.

    I’m not so sure that the newly added minor league members would be happy about having Dombrowski in charge (dying laughing)

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  73. uncle dave

    BVS,

    Eh, the whole ‘everyone is leaving’ thing is a bit overblown. Most of the folks who have left are younger and can’t afford to buy here because for whatever reason we’ve stopped building places for them to live. But I think they’d generally be here if they could, Prop 13 notwithstanding.

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  74. Author
    Rice Cube

    uncle dave,

    My parents told me about new “affordable housing” in our neighborhood but my wife and I looked and “affordable” is still over $650K and closer to $1MM which is lame. Rent is close to $3000 a month and that’s only because we got lucky

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  75. andcounting

    dmick89,

    Also, in that interview, Crane said that Jed didn’t spend all the money he had allotted to him last season. That would seem to indicate he may very well not exhaust his resources this season either. And nothing that dude said made it sound as though any of the remaining big names will fit into that budget. The most troubling thing, though, is the fact that he is even the one doing the interview. Hoyer is VP of baseball operations, and Kenney is VP of business operations, and I think we can tell by the nature of the interview that baseball operations and their budget fall under the umbrella of business. I think it’s fair to assume that Kenney is in charge of setting the budget for Jed, and that removes any hope I had that the rest of this off-season will be productive.

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  76. andcounting

    Javy giving Mets fans the thumbs down sign, getting his teammates to do it too, and getting those same Mets fans to go crazy cheering for him within two games was one of the all-time fun things to watch on a team outside of Chicago.

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  77. andcounting

    Rice Cube,

    This is the thing that is deafening if you really listen to what Crane Kenney said today. He made it painfully clear what type of budget he was allowing Jed to have. He said they didn’t make the playoffs last year, and this year they’re going to try to make the playoffs. He handed Jed $150 million and said “go get that 3rd wild card.”

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  78. Author
    Rice Cube

    andcounting,

    Yeah “making the playoffs” doesn’t mean what it used to, but momentum after a surprise run like what Philly did would go a long way too. I would just prefer not to have to squint to see a potential contender, and it’s not like my vision is that good anyway.

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  79. dmick89

    From what I little I can tell looking through the schedule and who the Cubs dealt and acquired, they looked more like a bottom 3-5 team by August than those surprising results would indicate. Without a significant investment, I don’t see how the team comes close to even contending. Correa puts them in the playoff picture. I’m not sure anyone else does. Swanson and Senga probably would, but just go sign Correa. I hate it when it’s this obvious.

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  80. Author
    Rice Cube

    The number being floated at this time is 8 years and $200MM for Dansby, if that’s what it is they might as well sign Correa instead but if they just get Dansby they need to also add a bunch of other talent, which at that point they might as well just sign Correa as well anyway.

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  81. andcounting

    According to Heyman its Cubs, Twins, Giants et. al. still in on Turner. Still no real sign of where he’ll head, but at least they’re not telling people they’re out.

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  82. berselius

    dmick89,

    Whether it’s shortstops playing on the right side of the diamond, or ownership coming out if left field to undermine democracy, both sides bear some blame for the current state of the game

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