[quote name=Mac]So who gets OC…..Tice? I’d really like to see Lovie gone too….I think it’s time to move on.[/quote]Lovie’s essentially a lame duck now. A new GM will want a new HC, and no OC will want a one-season gig. So I expect Tice gets promoted. It’s the safe move and Lovie loves the safe move. Plus it gives Jay at least a semblance of continuity.
I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.
[quote name=Aisle424]I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.[/quote] Completely agree. Lovie gets a lot of shit, and some well-deserved, for the stuff he says. Nevertheless, he’s outkicked his coverage (get it? A football metaphor in a post about football!!1!!!!1!) with his success. Angelo, however, is a complete moron who made awful draft pick after awful draft pick. I hope this is the sign of a paradigm shift up at Halas Hall.
That said, if they make Mark Ruskull the GM, I will very seriously consider becoming a Packers fan.
One last thought: I’m surprised they didn’t give Angelo the chance to retire. I would have thought they’d go to him and say, “OK, you’re gone. If you want, you can say you’re retiring. Otherwise, we’re letting you go.”
One last thought: I’m surprised they didn’t give Angelo the chance to retire. I would have thought they’d go to him and say, “OK, you’re gone. If you want, you can say you’re retiring. Otherwise, we’re letting you go.”[/quote] Maybe he didn’t believe them. Or maybe McCaskey thought he needed to fire him as a forceful action to take control of the franchise.
[quote name=Aisle424]Maybe he didn’t believe them. Or maybe McCaskey thought he needed to fire him as a forceful action to take control of the franchise.[/quote] if so, that’s a dramatic shift in philosophy from the org that stood behind jauron for years simply because virginia was so impressed with the way he presented himself.
[quote name=Aisle424]I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.[/quote][quote name=Aisle424]I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.[/quote]I agree about Lovie, but in the interest of fairness, JA did swing the trade for Jay, and drafted the nice deep young DL the Bears enjoyed this year.
[quote name=Aisle424]Maybe he didn’t believe them. Or maybe McCaskey thought he needed to fire him as a forceful action to take control of the franchise.[/quote]I think that’s part of it. BUt like SS says, you go and replace JA with Tim Ruskell and you just flushed that plan down the drain.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I agree about Lovie, but in the interest of fairness, JA did swing the trade for Jay, and drafted the nice deep young DL the Bears enjoyed this year.[/quote]The D-Line is decent, but Idonije and Melton are nice players not unlike hundreds of other nice players that John Gruden pops a boner about every Monday Night. Peppers was a free-agent, he had to trade picks to get Cutler, which was an excellent use of picks given his talent for fucking them up when he actually makes a pick.
JA was a step up from the Wannstedt years when they were trading first round picks for Rick Mirer, but he was not anywhere close to an architect of a team that was ever going to win the Super Bowl without an insane amount of luck. And I think Lovie made Angelo’s rotten picks look better than they were. him and the assistants.
I don’t know how Tice hasn’t killed himself with what he was given to work with. What’s his face from Detroit has done a really nice job with a very thin defense that pretty much needs Urlacher and Briggs to be healthy to function. ANd Dave Toub is a fucking miracle man by taking a different special teams unit every year and making it one of the best in the NFL every year.
Again, he has provided some useful pieces, but he has been dreadful in finding the guys that stand out on a team and make the players around them better.
[quote name=Aisle424]The D-Line is decent, but Idonije and Melton are nice players not unlike hundreds of other nice players that John Gruden pops a boner about every Monday Night. Peppers was a free-agent, he had to trade picks to get Cutler, which was an excellent use of picks given his talent for fucking them up when he actually makes a pick.
JA was a step up from the Wannstedt years when they were trading first round picks for Rick Mirer, but he was not anywhere close to an architect of a team that was ever going to win the Super Bowl without an insane amount of luck. And I think Lovie made Angelo’s rotten picks look better than they were. him and the assistants.
I don’t know how Tice hasn’t killed himself with what he was given to work with. What’s his face from Detroit has done a really nice job with a very thin defense that pretty much needs Urlacher and Briggs to be healthy to function. ANd Dave Toub is a fucking miracle man by taking a different special teams unit every year and making it one of the best in the NFL every year.
Again, he has provided some useful pieces, but he has been dreadful in finding the guys that stand out on a team and make the players around them better.[/quote]I’m very high on Melton. I think he’s going to be very good.
But I agree with you on the whole. Angelo picks dependable solid players on defense, leave offense for last, and doesn’t pick stars on either side of the ball.
Maybe it’s just me but I don’t feel Lovie has done a great job at all. I believe Lovie Smith to be one of the worst “in game” strategists in football. He is constantly being outcoached. Never makes adjustments. Waits too damn long to change what isn’t working. I do feel bad in the sense that he seems like a hell of a nice guy and he has been the best coach they’ve had since Ditka, but I don’t think he has what it takes to coach this team to a Superbowl victory.
[quote name=Mac]Maybe it’s just me but I don’t feel Lovie has done a great job at all. I believe Lovie Smith to be one of the worst “in game” strategists in football. He is constantly being outcoached. Never makes adjustments. Waits too damn long to change what isn’t working. I do feel bad in the sense that he seems like a hell of a nice guy and he has been the best coach they’ve had since Ditka, but I don’t think he has what it takes to coach this team to a Superbowl victory.[/quote]Lovie has definite shortcomings. His clock management isn’t great, he constantly makes the wrong challenge, and he often takes too long to adjust during the game. But it’s hard to say a guy deserves to be fired after he’s managed to coax a SB appearance and a playoff appearance out of fatally flawed rosters. Hell, he managed 10 wins with Kyle Orton at QB! And before you credit the defense with those 10 wins, stop to take note that that is Lovie’s D and supposed defensive genius Ron Rivera hasn’t duplicated those results anywhere else. Lovie’s never had a roster that wasn’t severely flawed, usually on the offensive side of the ball. So it’s hard to say just how good or bad he is. He’s good at some things and bad at some things. As NFL head coaches go, he’s probably somewhere in the middle. Not a genius, not a nincompoop. But that conclusion is based on Lovie having been annually handicapped by Angelo’s drafting. Remember, Bill Belichick was thought to be a boob until he got himself a HOF QB and 5-6 HOF defensive players. Lovie is definitely better thought of around the league than Belichick was when he left Cleveland. I’d love to see what Lovie could do with a team that didn’t have both a patchwork OL and a patchwork defensive backfield.
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Lovie has definite shortcomings. His clock management isn’t great, he constantly makes the wrong challenge, and he often takes too long to adjust during the game. But it’s hard to say a guy deserves to be fired after he’s managed to coax a SB appearance and a playoff appearance out of fatally flawed rosters. Hell, he managed 10 wins with Kyle Orton at QB! And before you credit the defense with those 10 wins, stop to take note that that is Lovie’s D and supposed defensive genius Ron Rivera hasn’t duplicated those results anywhere else. Lovie’s never had a roster that wasn’t severely flawed, usually on the offensive side of the ball. So it’s hard to say just how good or bad he is. He’s good at some things and bad at some things. As NFL head coaches go, he’s probably somewhere in the middle. Not a genius, not a nincompoop. But that conclusion is based on Lovie having been annually handicapped by Angelo’s drafting. Remember, Bill Belichick was thought to be a boob until he got himself a HOF QB and 5-6 HOF defensive players. Lovie is definitely better thought of around the league than Belichick was when he left Cleveland. I’d love to see what Lovie could do with a team that didn’t have both a patchwork OL and a patchwork defensive backfield.[/quote]I hear everything you’re saying and I agree with most of it. I actually believe Lovie’s defense is part of the problem. I realize the defense is predicated on forcing turnovers. But that bend don’t break shit is not good for offenses that can push the ball down field at will. If you continue to give offenses opportunities in the red zone, they will figure out ways to score TDs. A lot of defenses force turnovers and are very stout with giving up yards. Why can’t the Bears do that? The defense against the Broncos before they went into prevent was the best I’ve seen the defense since 06. I’d like to see the corners play up on the line of scrimmage and give Peppers and Co. time to wreak havoc in the backfield. They paid all that money for Peppers just to have him pressure the QB into making an 8 yard slant throw.
I don’t want to sound like I’m bashing the D because they’ve been actually really good this year. But I just feel like they could be so much better than they have. I’m just frustrated. Before Cutler went down, Bears looked really fucking good.
[quote name=Mac] I’m just frustrated. Before Cutler went down, Bears looked really fucking good.[/quote]This was the worst roller-coaster of a season ever.
Comments
So who gets OC…..Tice? I’d really like to see Lovie gone too….I think it’s time to move on.
MuckerQuote Reply
[quote name=Mac]So who gets OC…..Tice? I’d really like to see Lovie gone too….I think it’s time to move on.[/quote]Lovie’s essentially a lame duck now. A new GM will want a new HC, and no OC will want a one-season gig. So I expect Tice gets promoted. It’s the safe move and Lovie loves the safe move. Plus it gives Jay at least a semblance of continuity.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.
Aisle424Quote Reply
This.
GBTSQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.[/quote]
Completely agree. Lovie gets a lot of shit, and some well-deserved, for the stuff he says. Nevertheless, he’s outkicked his coverage (get it? A football metaphor in a post about football!!1!!!!1!) with his success. Angelo, however, is a complete moron who made awful draft pick after awful draft pick. I hope this is the sign of a paradigm shift up at Halas Hall.
That said, if they make Mark Ruskull the GM, I will very seriously consider becoming a Packers fan.
One last thought: I’m surprised they didn’t give Angelo the chance to retire. I would have thought they’d go to him and say, “OK, you’re gone. If you want, you can say you’re retiring. Otherwise, we’re letting you go.”
Steve SwisherQuote Reply
[quote name=Steve Swisher]
One last thought: I’m surprised they didn’t give Angelo the chance to retire. I would have thought they’d go to him and say, “OK, you’re gone. If you want, you can say you’re retiring. Otherwise, we’re letting you go.”[/quote]
Maybe he didn’t believe them. Or maybe McCaskey thought he needed to fire him as a forceful action to take control of the franchise.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Maybe he didn’t believe them. Or maybe McCaskey thought he needed to fire him as a forceful action to take control of the franchise.[/quote]
if so, that’s a dramatic shift in philosophy from the org that stood behind jauron for years simply because virginia was so impressed with the way he presented himself.
GWQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.[/quote][quote name=Aisle424]I feel a little bad for Lovie. I think he has made the most out of this roster and actually helped Angelo keep his job for as long as he had it.
Seriously, who would have predicted the Bears going to the NFC title game last year, and who predicted the Bears going to the fucking Super Bowl with Rex Grossman? He did a lot without much help from Angelo.
Urlacher was drafted by Hatley. So what did Angelo contribute? Briggs, Tillman, Forte, Hester (and then misused Hester). That’s it for 10 years of work? That’s fucking horrible and I don’t know how people could expect the Bears to be any better than they have been under Lovie. I really don’t.[/quote]I agree about Lovie, but in the interest of fairness, JA did swing the trade for Jay, and drafted the nice deep young DL the Bears enjoyed this year.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]Maybe he didn’t believe them. Or maybe McCaskey thought he needed to fire him as a forceful action to take control of the franchise.[/quote]I think that’s part of it. BUt like SS says, you go and replace JA with Tim Ruskell and you just flushed that plan down the drain.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Phillips says the one restriction placed on the new GM is that Lovie will remain the HC for 2012
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Mike Mulligan just demonstrated why he is the best sportswriter in town. Nice fucking work, Mully.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
McCaskey says money is no object in the GM search. Good to hear.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I agree about Lovie, but in the interest of fairness, JA did swing the trade for Jay, and drafted the nice deep young DL the Bears enjoyed this year.[/quote]The D-Line is decent, but Idonije and Melton are nice players not unlike hundreds of other nice players that John Gruden pops a boner about every Monday Night. Peppers was a free-agent, he had to trade picks to get Cutler, which was an excellent use of picks given his talent for fucking them up when he actually makes a pick.
JA was a step up from the Wannstedt years when they were trading first round picks for Rick Mirer, but he was not anywhere close to an architect of a team that was ever going to win the Super Bowl without an insane amount of luck. And I think Lovie made Angelo’s rotten picks look better than they were. him and the assistants.
I don’t know how Tice hasn’t killed himself with what he was given to work with. What’s his face from Detroit has done a really nice job with a very thin defense that pretty much needs Urlacher and Briggs to be healthy to function. ANd Dave Toub is a fucking miracle man by taking a different special teams unit every year and making it one of the best in the NFL every year.
Again, he has provided some useful pieces, but he has been dreadful in finding the guys that stand out on a team and make the players around them better.
Aisle424Quote Reply
[quote name=Aisle424]The D-Line is decent, but Idonije and Melton are nice players not unlike hundreds of other nice players that John Gruden pops a boner about every Monday Night. Peppers was a free-agent, he had to trade picks to get Cutler, which was an excellent use of picks given his talent for fucking them up when he actually makes a pick.
JA was a step up from the Wannstedt years when they were trading first round picks for Rick Mirer, but he was not anywhere close to an architect of a team that was ever going to win the Super Bowl without an insane amount of luck. And I think Lovie made Angelo’s rotten picks look better than they were. him and the assistants.
I don’t know how Tice hasn’t killed himself with what he was given to work with. What’s his face from Detroit has done a really nice job with a very thin defense that pretty much needs Urlacher and Briggs to be healthy to function. ANd Dave Toub is a fucking miracle man by taking a different special teams unit every year and making it one of the best in the NFL every year.
Again, he has provided some useful pieces, but he has been dreadful in finding the guys that stand out on a team and make the players around them better.[/quote]I’m very high on Melton. I think he’s going to be very good.
But I agree with you on the whole. Angelo picks dependable solid players on defense, leave offense for last, and doesn’t pick stars on either side of the ball.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
Maybe it’s just me but I don’t feel Lovie has done a great job at all. I believe Lovie Smith to be one of the worst “in game” strategists in football. He is constantly being outcoached. Never makes adjustments. Waits too damn long to change what isn’t working. I do feel bad in the sense that he seems like a hell of a nice guy and he has been the best coach they’ve had since Ditka, but I don’t think he has what it takes to coach this team to a Superbowl victory.
MuckerQuote Reply
[quote name=Mac]Maybe it’s just me but I don’t feel Lovie has done a great job at all. I believe Lovie Smith to be one of the worst “in game” strategists in football. He is constantly being outcoached. Never makes adjustments. Waits too damn long to change what isn’t working. I do feel bad in the sense that he seems like a hell of a nice guy and he has been the best coach they’ve had since Ditka, but I don’t think he has what it takes to coach this team to a Superbowl victory.[/quote]Lovie has definite shortcomings. His clock management isn’t great, he constantly makes the wrong challenge, and he often takes too long to adjust during the game. But it’s hard to say a guy deserves to be fired after he’s managed to coax a SB appearance and a playoff appearance out of fatally flawed rosters. Hell, he managed 10 wins with Kyle Orton at QB! And before you credit the defense with those 10 wins, stop to take note that that is Lovie’s D and supposed defensive genius Ron Rivera hasn’t duplicated those results anywhere else. Lovie’s never had a roster that wasn’t severely flawed, usually on the offensive side of the ball. So it’s hard to say just how good or bad he is. He’s good at some things and bad at some things. As NFL head coaches go, he’s probably somewhere in the middle. Not a genius, not a nincompoop. But that conclusion is based on Lovie having been annually handicapped by Angelo’s drafting. Remember, Bill Belichick was thought to be a boob until he got himself a HOF QB and 5-6 HOF defensive players. Lovie is definitely better thought of around the league than Belichick was when he left Cleveland. I’d love to see what Lovie could do with a team that didn’t have both a patchwork OL and a patchwork defensive backfield.
Mercurial OutfielderQuote Reply
[quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Lovie has definite shortcomings. His clock management isn’t great, he constantly makes the wrong challenge, and he often takes too long to adjust during the game. But it’s hard to say a guy deserves to be fired after he’s managed to coax a SB appearance and a playoff appearance out of fatally flawed rosters. Hell, he managed 10 wins with Kyle Orton at QB! And before you credit the defense with those 10 wins, stop to take note that that is Lovie’s D and supposed defensive genius Ron Rivera hasn’t duplicated those results anywhere else. Lovie’s never had a roster that wasn’t severely flawed, usually on the offensive side of the ball. So it’s hard to say just how good or bad he is. He’s good at some things and bad at some things. As NFL head coaches go, he’s probably somewhere in the middle. Not a genius, not a nincompoop. But that conclusion is based on Lovie having been annually handicapped by Angelo’s drafting. Remember, Bill Belichick was thought to be a boob until he got himself a HOF QB and 5-6 HOF defensive players. Lovie is definitely better thought of around the league than Belichick was when he left Cleveland. I’d love to see what Lovie could do with a team that didn’t have both a patchwork OL and a patchwork defensive backfield.[/quote]I hear everything you’re saying and I agree with most of it. I actually believe Lovie’s defense is part of the problem. I realize the defense is predicated on forcing turnovers. But that bend don’t break shit is not good for offenses that can push the ball down field at will. If you continue to give offenses opportunities in the red zone, they will figure out ways to score TDs. A lot of defenses force turnovers and are very stout with giving up yards. Why can’t the Bears do that? The defense against the Broncos before they went into prevent was the best I’ve seen the defense since 06. I’d like to see the corners play up on the line of scrimmage and give Peppers and Co. time to wreak havoc in the backfield. They paid all that money for Peppers just to have him pressure the QB into making an 8 yard slant throw.
I don’t want to sound like I’m bashing the D because they’ve been actually really good this year. But I just feel like they could be so much better than they have. I’m just frustrated. Before Cutler went down, Bears looked really fucking good.
MuckerQuote Reply
[quote name=Mac] I’m just frustrated. Before Cutler went down, Bears looked really fucking good.[/quote]This was the worst roller-coaster of a season ever.
joshQuote Reply