Historically Awful Franchise Off To Historically Awful Start

In News And Rumors by dmick89216 Comments

The Cubs are already 10 games under .500 and 10 games out of 1st place in the division. They’re 8 games behind the Marlins, Brewers and Giants for the Wild Card. This team is done. The Cubs appear much more likely to battle it out for last with the Astros than come anywhere close to finishing in the top 3 in the division. They may even struggle to catch the Pirates at this point. They’re bad. Really bad.

I looked back to 1981 to see how the Cubs had done through 56 games. I chose 1981 because that’s when I started watching the Cubs. I knew this year’s version had been one of the worst I’ve seen in my life. We can talk about the reasons why all we want and some of them are legitimate (injuries), but the bottom line is that so far, this team has been terrible.

The Cubs winning percentage is .411. The only Cubs teams since 1981 who have been worse through 56 games were the teams in 1981 (.286), 1982 (.375), 2002 (.393), 2000 (.393) and 1994 (.393). The last thre were just one win worse than the Cubs. It gets worse if we look at the expected record based on runs scored and allowed.

The Cubs Pythagorean win percentage is .403. Only the teams in 1981 (.332), 2006 (.399) and 2002 (.400) have been worse. Even the terrible Cubs teams of 1982 and 2000 were better. There’s an even better win expectation percentage called PythagenPat. Rather than consider all run environments the same as Pythagorean does, it’s based on the run score environment of each individual team.

The Cubs current PythagenPat is .408. Only the teams in 1981 (.344), 2006 (.405) and 2002 (.407) have been worse. The 2000 team is interesting because only one team in this span scored more runs (2008). However, no team came even close to allowing the number of runs they did. A lot of runs were being scored in baseball at that time, but in other years close to 2000, we don’t see such extremes for any Cubs team.

The 1981 team was just ridiculously bad. They fortunately didn’t play their 56th game until mid-August thanks to the strike, but they were actually 16-40 at that point. They’d allowed nearly 100 more runs than they’d scored. Looking at this I can’t figure out why I remained a fan of this team. Couldn’t have been any fun to watch.

Another year struck me as ood, as well. The 1985 team started the year 35-21. Everybody remembers the 1984 team (at least everybody who was alive). They were expected to win the division and even the World Series the following season, but it didn’t work out. They got off to a fantastic start. They scored nearly 100 more runs than they had allowed through 56 games. Only the 2001 and 2008 teams were as good as the ’85 team. All three teams were 35-21. Like the ’85 team, the ’08 team also scored nearly 100 more runs than they had allowed. The 2001 team was a little luckier, but still very good.

The 1985 team was so good through 56 games that it’s easily the best start this team has jumped out to through this may games. Ther Pythagorean Win % was .694. The PythagenPat was .679. The next highest PythagenPat was the 2008 club at .654. The 2004 and 1984 clubs were 3rd and 4th, tied at .582. The Pythagorean was even more lopsided. Their .694 Pythag beat the 2008 club by a wide margin (.660). No other team was higher than .589. The Cubs led the Expos by 2.5 games, but would go 42-63 the rest of the way.

Only the 2000 (341 RA) and the 1994 team (293 RA) allowed more runs than the 2011 version (286). You can look at the numbers yourself. If you want. (click the link below)

Year W L RS RA Win% Pythag PythagenPat
2011 23 33 235 286 .411 .403 .408
2010 25 31 234 251 .446 .465 .467
2009 29 27 245 232 .518 .527 .525
2008 35 21 319 229 .625 .660 .654
2007 24 32 261 243 .429 .536 .534
2006 23 33 229 281 .411 .399 .405
2005 30 26 255 225 .536 .562 .558
2004 29 27 262 219 .518 .589 .582
2003 31 25 262 235 .554 .554 .551
2002 22 34 213 261 .393 .400 .407
2001 35 21 265 227 .625 .577 .572
2000 22 34 289 341 .393 .418 .418
1999 32 24 282 262 .571 .537 .535
1998 32 24 277 252 .571 .547 .545
1997 23 33 234 249 .411 .469 .471
1996 24 32 246 268 .429 .457 .460
1995 28 28 249 250 .500 .498 .498
1994 22 34 248 293 .393 .417 .421
1993 28 28 239 247 .500 .484 .485
1992 25 31 194 214 .446 .451 .457
1991 28 28 227 240 .500 .472 .474
1990 24 32 243 269 .429 .449 .452
1989 32 24 229 202 .571 .562 .556
1988 28 28 243 234 .500 .519 .517
1987 32 24 281 246 .571 .566 .563
1986 23 33 246 268 .411 .457 .460
1985 35 21 277 184 .625 .694 .679
1984 32 24 272 228 .571 .587 .582
1983 26 30 232 233 .464 .498 .498
1982 21 35 213 248 .375 .425 .431
1981 16 40 196 278 .286 .332 .344

I might look at this after June is over. If the Cubs perform as poorly as I think we expect the to this month, they probably move further down the list of shitty Cubs teams since 1981.

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  2. Josh

    I think I started paying attention around 1984. I was about 5. I can’t remember the cubs pre-Ryne Sandburg. But I don’t recognize many of the names on their roster from that time. Surely the presence of Castro and Ramirez (if he can start hitting) makes us a better team, overall?

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  4. Rice Cube

    [quote name=mb21]This is definitely a better team than 1981.[/quote]
    That’s very reassuring 🙂

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  7. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mish]Historically awful blog covers historically awful start of historically awful team.

    (dying laughing)[/quote]
    Correct.

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  8. Suburban kid

    (dying laughing) @ Castro contuining to blow a bubble with his gum as he hits a single off of Carpenter.

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  11. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Suburban kid]Hilly catching, but no brushback pitch for Theriot.[/quote]Theriot gave him some tips on using the tablesaw, and that smoothed things over.

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  13. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Z maxing out at 90 mph so far. Nice K of Pujols.[/quote]I enjoyed that K too. I also enjoyed Pujols (apparently) asking Hilly why the fuck he tagged him when he didn’t have to.

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  14. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Z maxing out at 90 mph so far. Nice K of Pujols.[/quote]Hasn’t Zamby had a fair amount of success vs. Albie over his career?

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  16. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Hasn’t Zamby had a fair amount of success vs. Albie over his career?[/quote]
    No cluey. From my reading of “The Book” those pitcher-batter matchups don’t really have a lot of meaning anyway. But Pat said that Z hits Carpenter pretty well (dying laughing)

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  17. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Hilly with the phony hustle tag-out. Albie did not seem amused.[/quote]
    Hilly didn’t want to be blamed for pulling a Castillo (dying laughing)

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  19. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Suburban kid]Colvie is D-O-N-E.[/quote]
    What a waste of a first-round pick if that is the case.

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  20. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Rice Cube]What a waste of a first-round pick if that is the case.[/quote]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d57CjU62qYs

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  21. Rice Cube

    Does the terrible hitting at this point reflect poorly on Rudy Jaramillo, or is this just a case of not being able to help guys who already suck?

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  23. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Suburban kid]Colvie is D-O-N-E.[/quote]He looks completely lost at the plate.

    I’m also not encouraged by the Six Flags roller coaster ride that LeMaheiu calls his swing. That is way too long a swing for a RHB.

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  25. mb21

    GBTS didn’t get the memo about the last thread so he’s commenting over there anyway (dying laughing)

    [quote name=GBTS]Here’s something stupid I was thinking of this morning while playing video games.

    Would it make sense to have a pitching metric that more carefully scrutinizes IP? Say for example a pitcher walks a batter, then induces a double play. Why should the pitcher get credit for getting two outs? He induced one ground ball and the defense did the rest, he was just “lucky” there was a guy on first base.

    Would stats like FIP or ERA be better reflective of a pitcher’s performance if things like double plays, TOOTBLANs, and outfield assists weren’t outs credited towards the pitcher? A pitcher could throw 7 innings, but only “really” get like 19 outs or so instead of the full 21. Could make a difference, perhaps.

    Just a thought.[/quote]Any stat that looks at it based on plate appearances is likely superior to using IP. There has been a lot of discussion about this over at The Book Blog over the years with regards to FIP specifically.

    It’s why K% is better than K/BB. Same for BB% and BB/9. Pitchers face a different number of hitters per inning (base hits, walks, GIDP, etc).

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  30. Rice Cube

    [quote name=mb21]What did Z say to Pena?[/quote]
    Did not see it…radio only, but Pat and Keith didn’t say anything about that.

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  32. mb21

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Did not see it…radio only, but Pat and Keith didn’t say anything about that.[/quote]The Cardinals announcers made a big deal out of it, but I didn’t see it. Apparently Zambrano had some words for Pena after that base hit between he and Barney.

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  35. Rice Cube

    I think Miles really cherrypicked the stats since June is only 5 days in, but looking at both Barney and Castro from my own uneducated eyes, batting average and OBP are continuing to decline and the 0-for-June is being used erroneously to accentuate the point.

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  36. Suburban kid

    Looking at the chart in the post, it’s interesting that the 2011 team is only one game worse than the 2007 team. I dont, need to remind you, that that team went on to win the division.

    /Alvin

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  37. GBTS

    [quote name=mb21]GBTS didn’t get the memo about the last thread so he’s commenting over there anyway (dying laughing)
    [/quote]So now I have to check the thread below the top one to make sure I’m in the right spot?

    This blog is too much work.

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  38. mb21

    [quote name=Rice Cube]I think Miles really cherrypicked the stats since June is only 5 days in, but looking at both Barney and Castro from my own uneducated eyes, batting average and OBP are continuing to decline and the 0-for-June is being used erroneously to accentuate the point.[/quote]Agreed. Barney is an extreme singles hitters who pitchers throw tons of strikes to. He actually had a pretty good eye, but is probably never going to see enough pitches out of the zone. Castro is primarily a singles hitter who is probably never going to walk much. There’s a reason when Colin Wyers looked at emptiest batting averages that Castro and Barney were at the top. Both of them rely on batting average and a high babip to achieve it. We have to hope that they are capable of maintaining a BABIP well above what most players are capable of maintaining.

    The thing is, we knew that going into June.

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  40. mb21

    [quote name=Suburban kid]Looking at the chart in the post, it’s interesting that the 2011 team is only one game worse than the 2007 team. I dont, need to remind you, that that team went on to win the division.

    /Alvin[/quote](dying laughing) the big difference between this team and that one is that team had a good RS/RA differential throughout their shitty first two months. They were unlucky as far as W/L went while the Brewers were ridiculously lucky early in the season.

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  41. mb21

    [quote name=Josh]Castro and Barney get on, Ramirez drives them in. Why didn’t anyone think of this gameplan sooner?[/quote]That’s how it’s supposed to work.

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  42. mb21

    [quote name=GBTS]So now I have to check the thread below the top one to make sure I’m in the right spot?

    This blog is too much work.[/quote]That’s why we’re giving away a t-shirt. We realize it’s so tough that you probably don’t have time to shop for clothes. We’re helping one of you out.

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  46. Xoomwaffle

    Wow. Smoltz and Stockton are really stuck on this whole random bunt being scored as a sacrifice thing.

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  49. Rice Cube

    76 pitches through five innings thanks in part to that first-pitch out by Theriot. Z might get into the seventh.

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  52. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=ZappBrannigan]Z’s ERA —–> Under 4.00[/quote]Sullivan and Gordo ———-> still won’t notice

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  53. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Sullivan and Gordo ———-> still won’t notice unless he breaks a bat[/quote]
    There we go.

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  54. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Rice Cube]?[/quote]Bob was saying how Theriot would probably take a pitch so his pitcher could have a breather after running the bases, but then R-The immediately swung at the first pitch to pop out. Bob says, “that’s the Theriot we know and love!”

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  56. Suburban kid

    Was it Gordo and Hobbit who were saying Z should go to the bullpen when Garza comes back? Or am I hallucinating?

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  57. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Suburban kid]Was it Gordo and Hobbit who were saying Z should go to the bullpen when Garza comes back? Or am I hallucinating?[/quote]I don’t recall reading that, but it would not surprise me. You couldn’t fill a thimble with their combined brain matter.

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  58. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Suburban kid]Was it Gordo and Hobbit who were saying Z should go to the bullpen when Garza comes back? Or am I hallucinating?[/quote]
    No, I’m pretty sure they stick Davis or Lopez there. They need more lefties in the bullpen anyway.

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  59. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Colvin lost at the plate.[/quote]Awful. I feel like a complete ass.

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  60. mb21

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I don’t recall reading that, but it would not surprise me. You couldn’t fill a thimble with their combined brain matter.[/quote]Those are human beings you’re talking about. They feel.

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  64. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]I don’t recall reading that, but it would not surprise me. You couldn’t fill a thimble with their combined brain matter.[/quote]I’m pretty sure I read somewhere there was some question as to whether Lopez or Z would go to the bullpen, and I must have assumed it was the beathacks at it again.

    Maybe it was fans on the internet or talk radio shlubs or Quade, in which case I owe them an apology.

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  66. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Rice Cube]No, I’m pretty sure they stick Davis or Lopez there. They need more lefties in the bullpen anyway.[/quote]It’s Lopez. Dougie gets another start.

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  69. mb21

    [quote name=Suburban kid]I’m pretty sure I read somewhere there was some question as to whether Lopez or Z would go to the bullpen, and I must have assumed it was the beathacks at it again.

    Maybe it was fans on the internet or talk radio shlubs or Quade, in which case I owe them an apology.[/quote]I read something about that, but I don’t believe it. As we know, wins is what helps managers make these decisions and Zambrano is 5-2. Dempster has the second most wins and he’s 4-5. Jeff Samardzija is next with 3.

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  71. mb21

    Plus, the Cubs have won 8 of 12 of Z’s starts and lead in this one. I just don’t believe that. Someone made that rumor up.

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  80. Rice Cube

    I think there’s a small chance Z faces Pujols in the 8th, and it’s probably justified, but I still think Quade should be slapped if that does happen.

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  85. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]TLR must be saving Lance Berkman for the 9th inning.

    Unless Berkman heard there was a possibility of thunder and needed a bedtime story?[/quote].

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  88. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Suburban kid]Berkman had a cortisone shot before the game and is not available.[/quote]
    Ah. That’s too bad.

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  95. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Marmol with a chance to end Theriot’s hitting streak[/quote]
    This is your fault somehow.

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  99. Mercurial Outfielder

    That was quite possibly the pinnacle of Theriot’s painfully mediocre career.

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  100. Mercurial Outfielder

    Kaplan’s going to go apeshit about how they never should have let Theriot go in the postgame. Done deal, sealed.

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  101. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Kaplan’s going to go apeshit about how they never should have let Theriot go in the postgame. Done deal, sealed.[/quote]
    (dying laughing)

    I believe it.

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  102. Mercurial Outfielder

    According to ESPN, Theriot’s hit took the Cubs from a 72% chance of winning to a 52% chance of losing. (dying laughing)

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  109. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Rice Cube]How much you wanna bet they IBB Pujols in the bottom of the 10th?[/quote]I hope Samardzija is up in the pen.

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  110. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Suburban kid]I hope Samardzija is up in the pen.[/quote]
    I think Lopez is. Marmol should pitch another inning right?

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  118. GBTS

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Tyler Colvin must feel like shit today.[/quote]Is he still tired from running down Theriot’s double? It looked like he came over from right field to get that.

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  122. Mercurial Outfielder

    The Cubs have been absolutely crucified by Pujols this series. Yeah, he is in just as steep a decline as several Cubs bloggers thought. Great call, fellas. (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)

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  125. Rice Cube

    [quote name=mb21]You still have to pitch to Pujols in that situation.[/quote]
    I agree, but I think Quade used the wrong pitcher…although I don’t think he had much of a choice with a taxed bullpen from yesterday.

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  127. GBTS

    [quote name=mb21]You still have to pitch to Pujols in that situation.[/quote]MB is still waiting to be right about this. (dying laughing)

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  128. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=mb21]You still have to pitch to Pujols in that situation.[/quote]Yeah. I’m not any more of an IBB fan than I am a sac bunt fan. You take your swings and you try and execute your pitches. Sometimes it doesn’t work out.

    And with Pujols, it seems that a lot of times it doesn’t work out. (dying laughing)

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  130. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]I agree, but I think Quade used the wrong pitcher…although I don’t think he had much of a choice with a taxed bullpen from yesterday.[/quote]Yeah, pitting Pujols vs. Lopez is like running dick first into the wall at Wrigley. (dying laughing)

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  132. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Josh]Does Jeff Samardzija suck or is he just unpolished? I can’t decide.[/quote]Yes.

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  133. mb21

    [quote name=Rice Cube]I agree, but I think Quade used the wrong pitcher…although I don’t think he had much of a choice with a taxed bullpen from yesterday.[/quote]Lopez is the same of every other reliever not named Mamol, Marshall and Wood and Wood isn’t anything to brag about at this point in his career.

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  136. mb21

    [quote name=GBTS]MB is still waiting to be right about this. (dying laughing)[/quote](dying laughing) Pujols had only 8 walk-off home runs before this series. Even if he had 25, I would still pitch to him. There’s only one player that I’d consider walking to start an inning and that was Barry Bonds from 1999 to 2004.

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  138. mb21

    I actually feel bad for Mike Quade at this point. Due to being given an average team at best and then some shitty luck, this team is going to easily lose 90 and maybe even 95 or more. As a result, this will be the only season he ever gets to manage a team and I highly doubt he lasts the entire season. It’s not his fault this team sucks, but he’s going to pay the price.

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  139. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=mb21]I actually feel bad for Mike Quade at this point. Due to being given an average team at best and then some shitty luck, this team is going to easily lose 90 and maybe even 95 or more. As a result, this will be the only season he ever gets to manage a team and I highly doubt he lasts the entire season. It’s not his fault this team sucks, but he’s going to pay the price.[/quote]Yeah, it’s unfair for him to be fired for essentially trying to make the best of Hendry’s laughably constructed roster, but I also won’t miss his inane yammering. (dying laughing)

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  142. Josh

    [quote name=mb21]I actually feel bad for Mike Quade at this point. Due to being given an average team at best and then some shitty luck, this team is going to easily lose 90 and maybe even 95 or more. As a result, this will be the only season he ever gets to manage a team and I highly doubt he lasts the entire season. It’s not his fault this team sucks, but he’s going to pay the price.[/quote]
    But did we know going into this season it would be brutal? I guess I was hoping they’d give whatever manager they chose at least two years b/c this team was destined to suck.

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  143. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]ESPN box score gave Z’s start today a game score of 64. Carpenter got a 69.[/quote]Z has had two straight solid starts now.

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  144. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Josh]But did we know going into this season it would be brutal? I guess I was hoping they’d give whatever manager they chose at least two years b/c this team was destined to suck.[/quote]I expected this team to be bad, but not this bad.

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  145. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]It’s too bad for Q, but if Q goes, Hendry can’t be far behind…[/quote]I’m of that mind, too, but I also would not be totally shocked to see Quade scapegoated for not knowing how to handle the roster when the injuries hit, or some such nonsense that vindicates Ricketts for keeping the Hendry-Kenney braintrust around until Hendry’s contract is up in 2012.

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  147. mb21

    [quote name=Josh]But did we know going into this season it would be brutal? I guess I was hoping they’d give whatever manager they chose at least two years b/c this team was destined to suck.[/quote]The projections had the Cubs anywhere from 76 to 80 wins. They were a bit below .500 entering the season and they’ve been very unlucky to this point.

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  149. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Rice Cube]http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15581549

    GBTS is correct. WTF was that all about? Let Campana handle that side of the OF.[/quote]
    They were playing the Theriot Shift.

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  150. GBTS

    [quote name=Suburban kid]GBTS, you really need to upgrade to Pro.[/quote]Fucking photobucket, seriously? I can see it fine on mine.

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  151. mb21

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Yeah, it’s unfair for him to be fired for essentially trying to make the best of Hendry’s laughably constructed roster, but I also won’t miss his inane yammering. (dying laughing)[/quote]I don’t blame Hendry for this roster as much as you do. Sure, he’s partly responsible, but also responsible is the owner who sets the budget. We talked about this after 2009 endlessly, but the Cubs had to make a decision in that offseason. Either you increase payroll or you trade some veterans for some prospects. The Cubs did neither. Once they chose to do nothing this was inevitable. I’ve never heard a GM tell an owner he doesn’t want any more money.

    On the other hand, Hendry is largely responsible for assembling an aging team and not being proactive along the way in an effort to get younger.

    Furthermore, players like Ramirez, Soriano and even Zambrano are also to blame for not being as good as expected over the years they’ve been signed. It’s not like you can really blame the player because he’s trying, but they’re partly responsible for it too.

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  152. Suburban kid

    [quote name=GBTS]Fucking photobucket, seriously? I can see it fine on mine.[/quote]This has happened with like three images you’ve posted lately. Maybe it’s just me, idk.

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  153. mb21

    [quote name=Suburban kid]GBTS, you really need to upgrade to Pro.[/quote]Yeah, I can only see his images if I happen to click refresh instantly. (dying laughing)

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  158. Josh

    I understood not cleaning house right off the bat like a lot of fans were calling for (on the postgame show), but how does Ricketts justify not bringing in some new leadership at this point? How much lower can we sink?

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  160. GBTS

    [quote name=ZappBrannigan]I bet the Cubs hit Pujols next time they see him.[/quote]Better than pitching to him. (dying laughing)

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  161. ZappBrannigan

    [quote name=GBTS]Better than pitching to him. (dying laughing)[/quote]
    (dying laughing)
    True story.

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  163. mb21

    [quote name=Josh]I understood not cleaning house right off the bat like a lot of fans were calling for (on the postgame show), but how does Ricketts justify not bringing in some new leadership at this point? How much lower can we sink?[/quote]I think the question is whether or not the entire front office leaves with Hendry and a lot of people think they do. That’s why I still think Hendry gets promoted to some relatively meaningless position and a new GM is hired.

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  165. Rice Cube

    [quote name=dylanj]Sullivan is starting a BIG vendetta vs Z. Get ready for a shitstorm[/quote]
    Is this re: the stuff Muskat just tweeted about Z calling out the team and criticizing Marmol’s pitches?

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  167. GBTS

    NDB:

    Zambrano calls Cubs “embarrassing” and a “Triple-A team,” throws Marmol under the bus and backs over him.

    Correct? (dying laughing)

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  168. Suburban kid

    Oh my fucking shit.

    Z is going to be crucified again.

    Gordo is multi-tweeting Z’s rant against Marmol and the Cubs.

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  169. Suburban kid

    cst_cubs cst_cubs Z and Marmol on the rocks? Z rips pitch to Theriot for tying 2B (‘everybody knows he can’t hit FB’) … 2 minutes ago

    .

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  171. Mercurial Outfielder

    (dying laughing) @ Z simultaneously ripping Theriot, Cubs management, and Marmol. (dying laughing)

    Z is my favorite Cub, ever.

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  172. Mercurial Outfielder

    It’s awesome how Sullivan and Gordo have quickly found yet another reason not to talk about an excellent start by Z. (dying laughing)

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  173. Mercurial Outfielder

    Anyone who wants to rip Z needs to be able to answer one question:

    What has he said that is not true?

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  174. Mercurial Outfielder

    That said, Z will not finish the season with the club after this. And he shouldn’t. He deserves better.

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  175. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]It’s awesome how Sullivan and Gordo have quickly found yet another reason not to talk about an excellent start by Z. (dying laughing)[/quote]
    It’s a way of [L]ife.

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  176. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]That said, Z will not finish the season with the club after this. And he shouldn’t. He deserves better.[/quote]
    I wonder if he gets suspended or will have to miss dinner.

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  177. ZappBrannigan

    I don’t get it… Zambrano is actually speaking the truth about this franchise.
    None of those things were unaccurate or over the top. This is a mediocre team playing terribly. This is exactly what a clubhouse leader is supposed to do. Where are the other so-called clubhouse guys? Why are they silent?
    Z is going to get ripped for this and that’s complete bullshit. This team needs someone to light a fire under their ass, and it’s painfully obvious to everyone except the kumquat hack beat-writers that Quade, Ricketts, or the other “team leaders” haven’t been able to do that. Zambrano is finally displaying the type of leadership everyone wanted out of “not-an-ace” and now he’s going to get demolished for it. He deserves better then this fucking joke of a franchise.

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  178. Josh

    They told Z to calm his temper and he did, and the team got worse instead of better. He pitched good, but the team seemed to get worse.

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  179. GBTS

    I can’t believe I have tickets
    to the Friday Cubs/Yankees game, and I’m dreading it. Especially since I’m going with my friend who is a Yankees fan. I think I’ll wear a paper bag over my head.

    by DCCubsFan on Jun 5, 2011 5:11 PM CDT reply actions

    Careful with that paper bag.
    They might not allow you to do it. Seriously. (Dumb, but that’s Cubs security for you.)

    by Al Yellon on Jun 5, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions

    (dying laughing) What?

    Yeah, be careful.

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  180. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]I wonder if he gets suspended or will have to miss dinner.[/quote]I will be shocked if he isn’t suspended or fined.

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  181. Mercurial Outfielder

    The lede from Hobbiton:

    ST. LOUIS — Carlos Zambrano has had some vintage rants in his career, but Sunday’s may be the one that finally gets him out of town.

    Nice that Sully doesn’t mention he provoked it. (dying laughing)

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  182. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=ZappBrannigan]I don’t get it… Zambrano is actually speaking the truth about this franchise.
    None of those things were unaccurate or over the top. This is a mediocre team playing terribly. This is exactly what a clubhouse leader is supposed to do. Where are the other so-called clubhouse guys? Why are they silent?
    Z is going to get ripped for this and that’s complete bullshit. This team needs someone to light a fire under their ass, and it’s painfully obvious to everyone except the kumquat hack beat-writers that Quade, Ricketts, or the other “team leaders” haven’t been able to do that. Zambrano is finally displaying the type of leadership everyone wanted out of “not-an-ace” and now he’s going to get demolished for it. He deserves better then this fucking joke of a franchise.[/quote]THISTHISTHIS, a thousand times THIS.

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  183. Rice Cube

    [quote name=ZappBrannigan]I don’t get it… Zambrano is actually speaking the truth about this franchise.
    None of those things were unaccurate or over the top. This is a mediocre team playing terribly. This is exactly what a clubhouse leader is supposed to do. Where are the other so-called clubhouse guys? Why are they silent?
    Z is going to get ripped for this and that’s complete bullshit. This team needs someone to light a fire under their ass, and it’s painfully obvious to everyone except the kumquat hack beat-writers that Quade, Ricketts, or the other “team leaders” haven’t been able to do that. Zambrano is finally displaying the type of leadership everyone wanted out of “not-an-ace” and now he’s going to get demolished for it. He deserves better then this fucking joke of a franchise.[/quote]
    I hope the Yanks or Red Sox are looking for pitching. I want Z to win a World Series and say “fuck you” back to Chicago. This would be the first time in a long time I will root for the AL in the WS if this happens. Make it happen.

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  184. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]The lede from Hobbiton:

    Nice that Sully doesn’t mention he provoked it. (dying laughing)[/quote]what a cunt

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  185. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Suburban kid]what a cunt[/quote]Well, it is Paul Sullivan. We shouldn’t expect less, and in this respect, Sullivan may be right.

    I’m just mad that Sullivan has finally driven yet another player out of town.

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  187. Suburban kid

    [quote name=Mercurial Outfielder]Well, it is Paul Sullivan. We shouldn’t expect less, and in this respect, Sullivan may be right.

    I’m just mad that Sullivan has finally driven yet another player out of town.[/quote]Yeah. Sullivan and the others in Chicago who want Z gone are going to love his replacement — Rodrigo Lopez. (dying laughing)

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  188. Rodrigo Ramirez

    You guys think the club will take serious action against Z?

    I can’t see anything more than a fine. No way a suspension or trade would be justifiable here.

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  189. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Josh]Sounded like Koyie came to his defense. He’s good for something, then.[/quote]Huh. I’m wondering if there’s not about to be a mutiny in clubhouse.

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  191. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rodrigo Ramirez]You guys think the club will take serious action against Z?

    I can’t see anything more than a fine. No way a suspension or trade would be justifiable here.[/quote]A suspension would be tough, given the union complications, and the fact the Cubs middle-fingered the union on the MB suspension. But a fine I think is almost a certainty. This club has proven time and time again they cannot handle shit in-house. I think there will be a public response from Hendry and Z will be punished in some form, and then I think they’ll doo what they can to make him want to waive his NTC so they can deal him. And TBH, the way he’s pitching now, he has some value as a trade option.

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  192. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Mish]Am I the only one seeing the possibility of a suspension as less than zero?[/quote]
    In, this case, I hope, you are, correct.

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  193. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Mish]Am I the only one seeing the possibility of a suspension as less than zero?[/quote]I’m just speculating, but given the severity with which Hendry dealt with Z’s outbursts last year, it would not surprise me.

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  194. Mish

    Not that I endorse this logic (or it makes any difference to me), but when Zambrano was ass-spanked last year, he was in the midst of struggling. Right now, being the best pitcher in terms of results, it’d be hard to sell giving a start away.

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  195. GBTS

    [quote name=Mish]Am I the only one seeing the possibility of a suspension as less than zero?[/quote]So, a raise? (dying laughing)

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  196. Rice Cube

    Chemistry breeds winning. Z is disrupting clubhouse chemistry. Therefore he must be punished.

    You’re right, that logic doesn’t really work.

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  197. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Mish]Not that I endorse this logic (or it makes any difference to me), but when Zambrano was ass-spanked last year, he was in the midst of struggling. Right now, being the best pitcher in terms of results, it’d be hard to sell giving a start away.[/quote]
    Fair point, but…

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Chemistry breeds winning. Z is disrupting clubhouse chemistry. Therefore he must be punished.

    You’re right, that logic doesn’t really work.[/quote]
    We already know that’s how Hendry and Quade think. I’ll admit a suspension is highly unlikely, but it’s not beyond the realm of possibility.

    I’m just waiting to see the public response from Quade and Hendry. That’ll tell us a lot. If they say “We’re going to take a look at it and decide the proper course of action,” it means they’re asking MLBPA if they can suspend or fine him.

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  200. Rice Cube

    I wonder if Q will defend Z. I think there’s a good chance it will happen. If that’s the case then it’s likely Z is off the hook. Any word?

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  201. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=mb21]Is there a link to Z’s rant?[/quote]I doubt it. if it made it on TV, CSN will have a vid up in prob 10 minutes or so

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  203. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]I wonder if Q will defend Z. I think there’s a good chance it will happen. If that’s the case then it’s likely Z is off the hook. Any word?[/quote]If Quade sticks up for him, he’s in the clear.

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  204. Mercurial Outfielder

    Quade does not sounds enthused:

    Manager Mike Quade said he had no problem with Marmol throwing a slider to Theriot. “He got ahead with his fastball,” he said. “Z critiquing Marmol’s approach? Right now, i could care less. Those are the things you go back and look at tomorrow. Marmol throws a slider. Everybody is always (ticked) when he gets beat with his fastball, it seems like. “I’m just (ticked) when we get beat. Z pitched good. That’s all I know.” As for the Triple-A comment, Quade said: “I’ll let his teammates deal with that I guess. I don’t know exactly what that means. We had a chance to win a ballgame 2-1 and we didn’t get it done. The people that picked him up were not Triple-A caliber, (Sean Marshall) and Marmol.”

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  207. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Josh]Q can’t defend Z, because it would be admitting that he (Q) has failed as a manager.[/quote]
    You do not think there’s a way to defend Z and accept just the right amount of blame?

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  208. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Josh]Q can’t defend Z, because it would be admitting that he (Q) has failed as a manager.[/quote]How so? It’s not his fault Marmol’s getting all Billy Badass with the catcher and shaking off signs.

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  210. Rice Cube

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Also, seriously, what was Colvin doing in center field? (dying laughing)[/quote]
    Not to begin the game, obviously, but when he was supposedly playing left field.

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  211. Mercurial Outfielder

    [quote name=Rice Cube]Also, seriously, what was Colvin doing in center field? (dying laughing)[/quote]I only wish we had beat guys that would ask question like this, i.e. questions about defensive positioning, IBB decision, etc. I’d love to hear a managers thoughts on stuff like that. I bet even Quade would have interesting stuff to say on it.

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  213. mb21

    I just read some of Z’s comments. Didn’t sound that bad. He’s not the first payer to say “we’re playing like a AAA team.” I’m pretty sure Lou said that last year and I’d bet several other Cubs have said it as well. Singling out Marmol is probably not a good idea. It’s not like Marmol hasn’t saved his ass over the years. Other than that, I don’t think it’s a big deal.

    That doesn’t mean the Cubs won’t, but my guess is that this is just ignored by the team for the most part.

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