The other day in San Francisco Starlin Castro lost track of the number of outs and failed to complete the second half of what may or may not have been a double play. As you'd expect, Dale Sveum was quite unhappy about it.
"It's something that's obviously unacceptable at any time," Sveum said. "Whether we could have turned the double play is irrelevant to not knowing how many outs there are in the most important part of the game.
"These things have to stop happening or we're just going to stop playing [him]," Sveum said. "These kind of things are things my son does in high school — maybe."
Did Sveum consider benching Castro at that point?
"No," Sveum said. "I can't take him out. I'll have a good talking to him. It's the last straw. If he wants to play, he better start getting his head in the game, period."
It was Castro's second "brain fart" — as Sveum calls them — in the series. On Friday, the shortstop also tried to steal at the wrong time and didn't slide.
Based on these comments it's clear this type of thing has happened not once and probably not twice, but several times already this season. So what's the manager to do?
Rant Sports says the Cubs are handling Castro the wrong way. I'll only quote a little bit as the entire article is about the same thing.
I got on Mike Quade quite a bit last year, and this year I’m going to get on Dale Svuem. Stop calling out your ONLY star player in the media over mistakes!
I have issues with this comment. It's advantageous to a manager to call out his best player. It shows the rest of the team that even the best player has to keep his head in the game. I also argue that Starlin Castro is not the best player on the team, but that's another issue altogether.
Like this guy, I also disliked how Quade would get on Castro last season. It happened several times, but it was his first full season and I thought handling him in private, but also in front of the teammates would have been a better way to do it. At this point, I disagree. Castro has now been in the league for more than 2 years and while he's still young and still learning the game, he needs to be treated as if he's been in the league for 2+ years. If you aren't going to do that, at what point do you decide he's old enough to do so? Is it 23, 25 or 31?
I don't think age has anything to do with it. Starlin Castro remains the youngest player on the team, but he has more service time than Darwin Barney, Bryan LaHair, Steve Clevenger and Tony Campana. The only regulars with more service time than Castro are Ian Stewart, Alfonso Soriano and David DeJesus. If you aren't going to take Castro's mistakes seriously, you cannot possibly take the mistakes of half of this team.
Sveum has a decision to make. Handle Castro as if he's been in the big leagues for long enough or handle half or more of this team by ignoring their mistakes. If the Cubs ignore his mistakes, we know exactly what will happen because we've seen it before. In a few years he'll keep making them and the fans will turn on him much like they did on Sammy Sosa and Carlos Zambrano. They'll complain that the Cubs never handled either of them correctly and so on and so forth.
Starlin Castro is an adult and he's been in the league for plenty of time now. At the end of the year he'll be eligible for arbitration and will begin to make millions of dollars. Now is the time to address his mistakes.
What do you think? Vote in the poll below.
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I added a poll to the bottom of the post.
According to Buster Olney, MLBTR wrote this:
It seems like upper management thought that he shouldn’t have made the “last straw” comment. The next day after making that comment Sveum mentioned “We don’t bench players over stuff like that”
I didn’t see the play in question, but shit happens. Poor example, but Milton Bradley threw a ball in the stands thinking it was the 3rd out.
What Soriano said is a better way to handle it: http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/10734/soriano-counsels-castro-on-miscues
I haven’t seen Starlin make the same mistake twice. That’s when you can get on his ass. He is still young. If he made this mistake in the minors the coach would talk to him in private. And you can tell by the look on Castro’s face that he is upset when he makes mistakes. The coach riding him in the media doesn’t help things out.
I think that Sveum handled it really well, all of it really well except for the phrase “that’s the last straw.” If you take that phrase out of there, it all makes sense. He was upset, they just lost 3-2 for the 4th time in a row and Castro had made a couple really stupid mistakes (i actually don’t think this play mattered, I doubt they turn the double play – but it still a stupid mistake). So Sveum says a tired old cliche. Him back tracking the next day indicates he’s clearly frustrated, but not going to bench Castro.
I would’ve preferred a “maybe” option because I thought he should have chewed Castro out in private instead of to the media, but Castro definitely needed a kick in the ass.
WaLi wrote:
I didn’t take it from Sveum’s comments that he’d be benched. I thought he was saying if it happened again he would be. It’s clear to me this type of thing has happened and they’ve obviously addressed it privately. I just don’t have a problem with it. I think you have to treat him like an MLB player who has had plenty of experience and you take the kid gloves off. Because if you aren’t going to do that now, you never will.
I didn’t like how Quade went after him last year because I felt he should have addressed it privately and I’m sure he did several times that we are not aware of. Now though? Castro has been in the big leagues longer than most of the guys who have played on this team this year. By next year he’ll likely be the longest tenured every day position player on the team. It wouldn’t even surprise me if Jeff Samardzija was the only regular with more service time than Castro and that we have to consider how many times F7 went up and down. Castro has undoubtedly been on the roster without being sent down for longer than F7.
To me it sounds like Sveum is fed up with it so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt here. There have been rumors that Castro doesn’t work as hard as he should and Brenly has even pointed it out. You gotta take the kid gloves off at some point.
I would say it’s easy to pretend you can judge player development/discipline issues from the outside. They know the guy better than I do. They see all the behind-the-scenes action. I more or less think they know what the right move is. Besides, it’s clearly Hendry’s fault for calling him up too soon.
mb21 wrote:
I haven’t heard this and I agree you need to take the kid gloves off, but I just don’t think public humiliation works well. I’m sure it’s because I follow the Cubs, but I don’t hear about this type of stuff that often from other teams. Do other teams not make mistakes?
Since I referenced Bradley’s error earlier, here is what Piniella said about it:
That would have been a lot better than what Sveum said. If Sveum said “It didn’t cost a run, but these type of mistakes can’t happen in this league” then I would be okay with it. But he goes on and says “This is the last straw” instead.
@ WaLi:
There was a huge kerfuffle a couple of years ago where Maddon called out BJ Upton for not hustling down to first on routine plays. Even benched him. LaRussa made no secret of players he didn’t like, such as Colby Rasmus.
@ WaLi:
It actually did kind of cost the team a run, assuming he had any chance at all of turning 2.
@ josh:
I thought it was concluded that he couldn’t have turned two?
@ WaLi:
I never saw a definitive replay in terms of where the runner was. Len and Bob thought dude was safe either way, but sometimes you get a close call.
It probably wouldn’t have mattered. Starlin didn’t catch the flip in a good position to throw, so for that matter it might have been worse if he had thrown it away or something. It was jogging off after that chapped Sveum’s ass.
@ josh:
Right, but by Sveum not acknowledging that the throw didn’t matter, the writers were able to jump on Castro. Now that the writers jump on Castro, the fans will, and that isn’t what we want for one of the few bright spots on our team.
It was kind of embarassing to watch him jog off while everyone stared at him and the run scored.
@ josh:
That was a bit sad. I like that F7 gave him the “it’s okay” hug afterwards though.
WaLi wrote:
Someone inside the Red Sox (possibly even Theo) threw the entire team last year under the bus.
@ WaLi:
Piniella also trashed the team. I like Piniella and thought he did as fine a job as manager as I’ve seen the Cubs have, but he didn’t hesitate to throw players, coaches and even owners under the bus.
By the way, some of what I mentioned regarding rumors about Castro is from broadcasts (not just the Cubs). The Pirates announcers went off on him last year and some team’s announcers did the same thing year (Astros? Reds?). Brenly has done it. It seems to be a common theme. I don’t know how much of it is true, but I’m guessing quite a lot of it is. Some of the times I’ve heard him being trashed on air he’s deserved it. There was one time he was standing with his back toward home AS THE PITCH WAS DELIVERED. It may have Brenly that went off on him that time or it may have been some other team’s announcers. I don’t remember. There was another time when some other team’s announcer highlighted Castro’s position as the pitch was delivered and how it led to him being out of position on the groundball hit at him.
The whole Mark Appel thing is really weird. The slot for the first overall pick was $7.2 million, but they reportedly offered only $6 million. I doubt there’s been a first overall pick since they had suggested slots that signed for less than slot. It appears the Astros like Appel enough to pay him only so much so that they could save $1.2 million to spend elsewhere in the draft. In other words, the Astros liked Appel ONLY if it would allow them to get another 1st rounder their next pick or a couple 2nd rounder types throughout the next 10.
Once you got past the Astros no team was going to even offer $6 million since that would have been the best offer. It’s quite obvious the Astros thought he was good, but ONLY if signing him would allow them to add another 1st round type player in the draft. Or maybe even two of them. They didn’t like him enough to pay him slot and my guess is that the only team that did like him that much was the Pirates. There’s no risk in drafting him so if a team had the 2nd pick they could offer $1 million under slot or get the 3rd pick in next year’s draft. The Pirates probably don’t even offer Appel slot to sign. I think it’s $2.9 million, but I’m guessing they only offer him $2.5 million. Take it or leave it. I’d also guess he takes it because he’s fucking screwed if he goes back into the draft next year. If teams simply didn’t value him that highly in THIS draft, he’ll have even less value being a 4-year senior AND in a draft with more talent. It’s quite possible he could slip to the end of the 1st round in next year’s draft or maybe even be a compensation pick.
At that point he’d have to decide if he wants to play Indy ball for a year at which point he would not be able to sign for more than $100,000.
Wow. Teams hold all the leverage here. I mean all of it. I don’t even see a reason why teams would offer slot. I don’t remember what slot was for the Cubs pick, but I’d offer 10% under it, take it or leave it. Get the 7th pick next year if he doesn’t sign and you’ll end up getting a better player. Plus they’ll have a pick before that one. If I’m the Cubs I might even offer 25% less than slot just because.
I think the Astros played this brilliantly and my guess is that Correa signs for $6 million. I don’t know anything about the rest of their draft, but I’m guessing they pay over slot to some high school kid and end up getting a 2 for one type deal. Then the Pirates played it even more brilliantly than the Astros did.
@ mb21:
That was Bobby Valentine. That part was understandable.
When he then went on to get angry about Castro eating sunflower seeds later in the inning, it started getting a little weird.
hey MD- Goldstein just tweeted he knows a team that is going WAY over the 100k limit for a guy picked after round 10. I cant find what the penalty for doing that is. Do you remember?
Corpas ———-> Cubs
Blake Parker ———->60 day DL with “right elbow stress reaction”
@ Berselius:
I’m not sure what that means, but it sounds bad.
Apparently it’s a bone lesion caused by bone-on-bone contact, a rare injury for pitchers. Just takes a long time to heal.
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
(dying laughing)
@ jtsunami:
Is the CUBS WAY to always try to draft players of people they are associated with? Brenly, Dunston, now Sveum? the hell?
@ josh:
I think sometimes it’s just a sign of respect or an honor for an employee. And sometimes it means they’re actually good at baseball.
Based on what I read about Sveum the Younger, he’s really really thin and doesn’t have a lot of power but is a sound fundamental player. So they probably just did it as an “attaboy” for Dale.
@ Rice Cube:
But that would be nepotism.
http://www.wwtdd.com/2012/06/kate-upton-says-its-a-wrap-i-believe-her/
@ josh:
Indeed, it happens. I think the story goes that Mike Piazza was a form of nepotism pick, but he certainly worked out well.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=17247
Count me among those who are skeptical that Z is reformed or improved as a pitcher.
@ Rice Cube:
Mike Piazza’s father was close friends with Tommy Lasorda. He was picked in the 62nd round as a personal favor.
These late round players don’t matter. There was a GM that drafted his own daughter several years ago
@ Berselius:
Mike Piazza mattered!
Rogers on Almora:
that might be the most sane thing ever written by Phil
@ dylanj:
I especially enjoyed the “he doesn’t live next to the library” crack.
This is terrible if true. Although ERs often have crazy wait times anyway.
Lineup tonight vs RHP Greinke
CF Campana
SS Castro
RF DeJesus
LF Soriano
1b LaHair
C Clevenger
2B Barney
3B Stewart
P Maholm
on castro: i pretty much agree with Rice, they should’ve called him out but maybe like you said in the article in front of the team rather than in the media. but yeah, he needed something to tell him.
interesting stuff on the draft too, cheers!
Soriano’s bat is still hot
The Stewmaster took some close pitches there.
Or Grienke was pitching around him.
(dying laughing) at Grienke eephus
@ Berselius:
That did not come across on Gameday.
El Duque threw the most hilarious eephus, ever. Mostly because his pitching motion was already comical.
@ josh:
I think it was Vicente Padilla but I have actually seen Gameday call a pitch an “eephus” before.
I also recall having to face Zack Greinke in video games and that slow curveball/eephus is annoying as hell.
@ Rice Cube:
Didn’t Z throw one in an All-Star game?
@ Berselius:
http://www.reference.com/browse/eephus+pitch
I wonder how Zack Greinke would do as a Cub.
This must be that inning for Maholm.
@ Rice Cube:
Mike Piazza was a 62nd round nepotism pick for Tommy Lasorda (godson). Worked out pretty well for them. According to Wikipedia, Mike had lots of coaching from big leaguers as a kid. So maybe Sveumlet fills out and makes a go of it.
EDIT: Guess I should read all the comments before I post. Duh.
Regarding calling players out:
Bobby Cox did it multiple times with Andruw Jones. Even pulled him off the field once as I recall, or at least benched him mid-game.
@ josh:
He was leaving all his pitches up in the zone, it was bound to happen.
@ SVB:
Sounds like lil Sveum is committed already and its just getting drafted by Cubs on his resume. Not sure if this is negotiation tactic (dying laughing)
@ WaLi22:
Well, “drafted by Cubs” sounds better than “drafted by Lions” or “drafted by Charlotte.”
Rice Cube wrote:
fix’d
Seems the Cubs decided to share the wealth by letting the Brewers have all the runs today.
Another Aroldis inning, another save, another 2 strikeouts, no hits or walks, and ERA is still 0.00.
It’s a crime that guy isn’t getting more innings.
@ josh:
I’m not talking about this year but it’s another example of a manager bitching about his team. I was referring to the Re Sox last year and their behavior in the clubhouse and all that shit. I remain convinced it was Theo who leaked that to the press so the Sox would let him out of his contract with them.
@ ACT:
Crazy. We’re two months into the season and an ERA of 0? Wow.
@ mb21:
29 innnings, 7 hits, 9 walks, 52 strikeouts. If there were a level above the MLB, he’d be dominating there, too.
@ mb21:
I meant with Castro, when he turned his back to the pitch. That was the infamous Bobby Valentine incident. Bobby was the ESPN announcer or Fox or whatever.
@ ACT:
Yeah, using him only as a closer is kind of ridiculous. What more does the guy have to do?
ACT wrote:
Why do we still have to watch Ian Stewart play third? Why not put Cardenas in there for 10-14 days and see what he can do? DJ would be happy. Can’t be worse than what we’ve seen.
Campana gets a golden sombrero.
@ SVB:
I think so too. Stewart is a great defensive 3B, but his bat is just dead.
SVB wrote:
10-14 days is not nearly enough to determine what someone can do.
@ ACT:
The only thing that can slow him down is the bench warrant about to be issued for him because he blew off his court date. For a speeding ticket. I will never understand the devil-may-care mentality of pro athletes when it comes to obeying the law.
@ ACT:
Fangraphs disagrees.
@ ACT:
In 122 PA, he has 27 K…and 7 BB (dying laughing)
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
31 K’s in 126 now. That’s our leadoff hitter!
At least Marmol hasn’t walked anyone yet.
@ ACT:
Yeah, you’re right, but I’d like to see him get 50 bats in a row instead of one game every 10 and 4 ph appearances.
@ ACT:
@ ACT:
Samardzija disagrees.
But seriously, might be long enough to give some entertainment value.
Speaking of dumb articles that suggest trading Castro (like MB highlighted a few days ago), here is another.
My god the Chicago sportswriters, especially the columnist variety, are horrid. Morrissey, Imrem, Rosenbloom, etc. They probably have 100 years of career among them, not a sniff of World Series-like performance.
DPoriano
We stinks.
@ josh:
I worry about him being too good at the closer job. I don’t want him to box himself into this role early in his career. I bet if Nolan Ryan were coming up today, they’d probably be grooming him as a closer.
@ ACT:
I know what you mean. Let’s say he’s the most dominant closer in baseball history or something, that might actually be below what he might have otherwise achieved. But as long as they keep him in that role, they’ll justify it by saying “But he’s so good.”
He at least deserves a chance to start. If he can’t cut it, then let him be a dominant closer.
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
WHA?!
@ josh:
Isn’t that sort of what they did with Mariano Rivera?
@ josh:
I am immune to the Hope Monster.
@ Rice Cube:
I believe he was a starter for awhile first, could be wrong.
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
Sure, sure, there’s one in every crowd.
@ josh:
Every party has a pooper
@ Mercurial Outfielder:
The high school field parties I went to in rural Michigan didn’t have poopers. If you rented those you drew too much attention to the underage drinking!
So there hasn’t been a guest article here at OV for awhile, and based on the headline, I thought one of the Fantastic Four had asked one of Starlin’s dates to provide an analysis….
(dying laughing)
Aroldis did start in the minors but was horrid. They should at least give him a shot at the ML level.
Sczcaszxczr hasn’t played in a week but hasn’t gone on the DL, and Brett is getting stonewalled when trying to find out what’s up.
EDIT: never mind, he’s on the DL with a knee problem
Minor shit up:
http://www.obstructedview.net/minor-leagues/the-children-are-the-future-cubs-minor-league-update-sponsored-by-starbucks.html