Brett over at Bleacher Nation has a story up about the Cubs surveying random fans on their opinions of WGN, buried amidst a bunch of more boilerplate marketing questions (concessions, etc). Two questions in particular, as reported by one of his commenters look to be gathering data to use in a future push for a new TV deal, as the WGN contract expires in 2014 (i'm guessing at the end of the season).
“How much of a role did WGN TV or Radio play in making you want to start following the Cubs?”
“How many Cubs games did you watch on WGN in 2012?”
It's pretty clear where they're going with this. Frankly, I'd be surprised if they stuck with WGN after the deal runs out. As Brett points out, they can always renegotiate the deal with CSN to put even more/all of the games on that network, or buyout that deal and start working on a YES-style network. The Cubs do own a partial stake in CSN (IIRC 25%) so they might even be able to do it without much cash upfront by simply giving it up to the other shareholders (disclaimer: I know nothing about business). WGN games have already been on their way out for a while. More and more games have been popping up on CSN, and I don't think it's been that big of a problem. Generally the only complaints that I see from Cubs fans is when the game is on WCIU, which seems to be happening more frequently these days.
WGN made a lot more sense for the Cubs when they were owned by the Tribune but in today's media market the team might want to go elsewhere. They might not even be able to pony up the cash to pay for a new deal – back in the Sosa days WGN was a moneymaker for a company that was hemorrhaging money in their print business. Now that the Cubs stink and the media market is far more saturated than it was 15 years ago, I don't think WGN is doing so well. Being a 'superstation' isn't quite the ratings draw as it once was, and I remember recently enjoying (in the ACB sense) a story about WGN not doing so well financially around the time of the "WGN America" rebranding. I can't seem to dig up any stories about it, since WGN is a news organization I keep getting their general business news. I do feel much more sure in saying that WGN radio is bleeding money too, but that has more to do with how crappy all of its talk shows are.
The Cubs built a lot of their current fanbase on the back of Harry Caray and WGN in the 80s and 90s, but a big reason for it was that there weren't that many other games on TV nationally. With the caveat that this is just a personal anecdote and may not be true in general, I remember growing up in the DC area and not getting many Orioles games on TV. Aside from the relative scarcity of games, Harry Caray and Steve Stone (along with the Cubs marketing department) built that fanbase as well. Just look at how many more Cubs fans there are nationally compared to the Braves, who also had a superstation and had an incredible decade in the 90s.
As Brett points out, a hypothetical 12 year old in Ohio (or wherever) is far less likely to be a Cubs fan if they move off WGN, but at this point he or she is already less likely to be a Cubs fan anyway because there's so much more to watch these days (baseball or otherwise). If the Cubs decide to stick with WGN, they should only base it on the money, and I don't think TribCo is going to be able to offer enough to make it worth the Cubs while. The Cubs should strike a deal based on the media landscape for the next 30 years, not based on how it worked for the last 30.
I didn't talk much about WGN radio, but I think that it IS important that the Cubs stick with them. I'm guessing Pat Hughes would go to whatever new station picked up the Cubs, but WGN has one of the strongest signals in the country.
I suppose.
What kind of stuff do YES and NESN do when baseball isn’t on? Can the Cubs even put on enough content to support an all-Cubs-all-the-time network?
@ Rice Cube:
I think YES picked up a lot of euro soccer, though this recent NBC sports network deal might blow that out of the water.
On a good night, I can get WGN in NC. I’ve always wondered how that works. Of course, it only good enough to get every other word, but Harry and Ronnie thjat was enough.
I meant to elaborate on one of my points up there – I don’t think Len Kasper and Bob Brenly (or whoever replaces Brenly) are a big draw like Caray was. It’s different with Pat Hughes (though not quite the same without Santo)
@ Berselius:
If the Cubs can somehow do tape-delay or replays of minor league broadcasts I’d be all over that.
If the Cubs aren’t going to keep their team on a station that a 12-yr-old can watch, do they have an alternative to reach today’s tweens?
WGN has paid them dividends in many many ways. Without WGN the Cubs would just be the Mets, but not as good.
@ Rice Cube:
Oh man, that would be amazeballs but I’d be shocked if it got much ratings wise.
I rarely watch Baseball on TV, because I don’t like paying for CSN et al and they’re almost never on WGN when I’m home. It’d be a damn shame if they dropped WGN radio, but Chambana recently started rebroadcasting the games on local FM, so it’s not the end of the world, assuming a similar deal gets done with the new provider. If it goes entirely to satellite radio or something, I’ll probably get baseball exclusively from Gameday.
@ SVB:
AM signals are like longer, and less powerful, so they suffer less decay, but the signal isn’t as strong to start with or something like that.
@ josh:
IIRC the WGN signal strength is huge. The reason you can get it late at night is that the waves are long enough to bounce off the ionosphere.
@ Berselius:
I don’t know meteology. I barely know spellign.
Oh, here, Twitter cued me into this, for blocking sites from Google searches (requires you to login to a google account):
http://www.google.com/reviews/t
Berselius wrote:
I can listen to WGN basically all the way down I65 to Indianapolis. It loses it’s signal once I get into the city presumably because of the buildings and other shit in the way. But ya, you can get get AM stations 3-4 times further away than FM.
Yeah I don’t know why I bother reading the Bruce Levine chats. Someone asked if the Cubs should sign Scutaro (dying laughing) (dying laughing) (dying laughing)
@ akabari:
I could sort of see signing Placido Polanco for some middling sum but Scutaro is probably going to ask for mondo cash.
Rays —-> exercise James Shields’s option
This…is…awesome.
@ akabari:
I kinda feel like Levine must have been scratching his head there trying to figure out how to give a serious, professional answer to such a bizarre and idiotic question.
@ Jed Jam Band:
If he were that smart, he would have disregarded the question completely.
http://www.nfl-360.com/pick-team
Can MLB come up with something like this so I don’t have to be a fucking Cubs fan anymore?
@ Rice Cube:
If you look at the two and a half years Lou Brock played with the Cubs and the two years Campana played with the Cubs, their AVG and OBP were very similar.
The similiarities end there though as Lou actually hit HRs and was a couple years younger.
Also Lou did play very well against the Tigers, although his efforts ended in a StL loss (dying laughing)
@ WaLi:
He won a couple before that. I’m sure Lou was okay
@ WaLi:
Very different eras too. Something like a .250 woba = all star in the days before they lowered the mound (dying laughing).
http://updates.deadspin.com/post/34648236392/the-giants-sure-use-a-lot-of-sabermetrics-for-an?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_facebook&utm_source=deadspin_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Jackie Chan gif.
This. WGN is not the edge it once was if it is even an edge at all anymore.
When I moved to Western NY, I made my mother get WGN in the cable package, but if I hdn’t I’d probably not be much of a baseball fan today because there was nothing else.
We got some Mets games on WWOR (if that even exists anymore), some of the Braves games on TBS, and the Game of the Week on NBC. That was it. I was right smack between the Toronto, Cleveland and Pittsburgh markets an couldn’t see any of their games.
That’s just not true anymore. MLB.TV, MLB Network, ESPN, plus all the baseball viewing packages you can buy from various providers gives everyone tons of options. Hell, it’s only like $15 for a full year of MLB Audio for ALL THE TEAMS with no blackout issues.
So unless WGN is going to pony up the dough to keep them (which I doubt since they made a commitment to their own programming years ago when they gave preference to Buffy over Cubs games), I just don’t see the Cubs being on WGN for much longer, and I’m fine with that.
I think too much credit is given to Caray. The major difference between the Cubs and Braves was that the Braves played at night. The Cubs more than half their games during the day. At night, the parents would take over the television (people didn’t have a tv in every room) so you couldn’t really watch baseball. Most people who grew up in Ohio or other parts of the country didn’t have a father (or mother) who rooted for the Cubs.
The Cubs playing day games was a huge draw at the time. Kids could come home from school, turn on the tv and watch the end of the Cubs games. In the summer they could watch all the games during the day.
I think the Cubs drew the fans they did across the nation during these years in large part because of when they played their games. it was more convenient for children to watch them at that time and if they weren’t fans by the time they were adults, they almost certainly weren’t going to become fans.
These days, this just doesn’t matter as much because kids are interested in different things. The lack of interest in baseball compared to when I was a kid in the 80s is unbelievable. When I was a kid I couldn’t wait until I could drive and had my own car. Kids these days aren’t as interested in something that’s been a rite of passage for decades. They have Facebook and Twitter, the internet and game consoles that make the Atari look comical.
The question isn’t about what role WGN played for us in becoming Cubs fans. We’re adults. It played a significant role in drawing residents of other stats to become a fan. However, things are considerably different. Asking a question about what the role was for past generations is kind of silly. It’s not going to have the same impact today. It will make a minimal amount of difference.
Aisle424 wrote:
I don’t see either. All I really care about is the Cubs getting the most money they can. If they have an argument that they can get more money by giving WGN a sweetheart deal then it’s an argument I want to hear. It’s also not an argument that starts with how people our age became fans of WGN. Things have changed.
@ josh:
Nice. Just blocked Bleacher Report.
@ mb21:
Did they usually start at 3? Catching the last few innings of a 1:10 game the cubs were probably losing wouldn’t be that great of a draw. Kids do a lot more shit after school these days, or in some sort of child are if both parents work (experience bias applies of course)
@ Berselius22:
I grew up on the West Coast so would’ve missed most Cubs day games. I knew of the Cubs but didn’t really care until Sammy Sosa went bonkers. Want to draw fans in? Get another Sammy Sosa.
@ Berselius22:
They started at 1:20, but I’d usually get home at about 3:10 with the except for 7th and 8th grade, which was at about 3:30. So I’d get to see the last few innings of the game and I didn’t care if they were losing. It was baseball.
Kids are just busier these days and have different interests. WGN isn’t going to attract that many fans anymore. If kids don’t particularly care about getting a driver’s license, they’ve got other shit going on and it has nothing to do with baseball.
I think some of that can be blamed on baseball. It’s just not that exciting of a game for most people. I love it and think it is, but I can understand why people don’t. Baseball has really done nothing to speed the game up. There are many things they could do, but refuse to.
According to AZ Phil who is always on top of this shit, the Cubs will have some work to do with their 40-man roster. It currently sits at 35. Kyler Burke can file for minor league free agency and Phil expects if that happens he’d sign a 40-man contract with another team. My guess is the Cubs add him to their 40-man roster along with Christian Villanueva, Logan Watkins and Nick Struck. I don’t think they add Trey McNutt, but they could and it would be up to 40.
They can obviously release and/or non-tender some guys, which they likely would (Casey Coleman, Brooks Raley, Ian Stewart come to mind). Dolis? Sappelt?
@ mb21:
I think they keep Sappelt around in the Reed Johnson role, or maybe cut him in ST if he loses out to LaHair and Campana for an OF spot.
I don’t think Chris Rusin is in anyone’s long term plans either, same with Beliveau and Bowden
@ Berselius:
I tend to think the same thing. I also think they keep Dolis around. The Cubs are going to have trouble clearing many spots on that 40-man roster. One of the reasons why you don’t sign young guys to 40-man contracts. Especially when they have the talent of Gerardo Concepcion (he should be released today).
@ Berselius:
A lefty who throws strikes probably won’t be outrighted. I don’t think he’s much, but he can be an effective LOOGY and will be cheaper than James Russell.
Would they consider outrighting Lendy Castillo? Surely there isn’t another team in baseball who would claim him and add him to their 40-man roster. The guy flat out sucks.
For you people who care a lot about how Star Wars was ruined, there’s some good news: there are more of them coming: http://www.hitfix.com/news/disney-reportedly-purchases-lucasfilm
(dying laughing)
Does the Concepticon contract preclude him from being taken off the 40-man? I doubt anyone claims him anyway.
@ Rice Cube:
No, they’d still owe him the money of course, but they can get rid of him at any time.
@ mb21:
I guess if they did that then he’d just declare free agency as I’m sure the contract allows him the right to not accept an outright…? Sucks that they wasted the money but it’s small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.
Berselius wrote:
Wait. What?
@ Suburban kid:
It could happen. LaHair was an All-Star and Campana is the second coming of Lou Brock.
You’re telling me I could be rooting for a team that features both Bryan LaHair and Tony Campana ….. AGAIN???
Can we please trade Campana for the corpse (or grandson, either way) of Ernie Broglio?
Does anyone think Tony Campana one year older is still going to be cute?
Cute:
Not cute:
My Spidey sense tells me that SK is not a fan of Tony Campana.
Youk, Brett Myers —> FA
Peavy —> extended
@ Rice Cube:
I was getting a little creeped out by SK’s fascination with how cute little Tony C is going to be next year.
Peavy ——> extension with White Sox
Youk ——-> not
Myers ——-> Also not, but I don’t care
Not sure how I missed RC’s update. I had just finished reading every word.
@ Aisle424:
I am part ninja.
Suburban kid wrote:
Yes. Yes in 2014 too. (dying laughing)
Suburban kid wrote:
Get your tickets now while you still can!
@ Rice Cube:
@ SVB:
In case you can’t tell, Campana reminds me of an overgrown 1940s newsboy who sucks at playing baseball. Do Not Want.
@ mb21:
I’m going to change my allegiance to the ORIX Buffaloes?
@ Suburban kid:
They have about as good a chance as the Cubs do at winning a World Series anytime soon so why not?
@ mb21:
Shut me right up
Hmmm. It appears that Chrome really is better than Firefox.
@ Suburban kid:
In some ways. I really wish someone would combine the best from Safari, Firefox and Chrome. Best browser ever. (dying laughing)
@ mb21:
What about IE 7?
Barney —> NL 2B GG
Shock to me…Mike Trout didn’t win any of the OF awards.
for what it’s worth, i would be very much affected by the cubs and WGN parting ways. i don’t have a TV (becasue the only thing i watch is baseball) so if i want to watch the game, i’ll go to a bar. none of the bars in my neighborhood have a baseball package. they all have WGN though. so if the cubs leave WGN, my best alternative would probably be to just subscribe to mlb.tv and watch games on my computer. but i would probably never do this becaue it’s not really an enjoyable way to watch games (for me anyway)….in all likelihood, i would probably just stop watching cubs games unless they happened to be nationally televised.
so a move would affect my viewership in a big way, and by extension, would probably make me much less of a fan. i wonder how many other fans there are in a similar situation. i would guess that there are quite a few but maybe not enough to make a financial impact.
@ Rice Cube:
Let’s see what the stats say.
DRS: Barney saved more runs than Superman and the Flash combined.
UZR: Barney ties for first place with Danny Espinoza
FRAA: Barney is third behind Aaron Hill and Dan Uggla (both of whom were negative last year).
TZ: First place ahead of Hill.
So… good choice, I guess.
Barney also led his position in fielding percentage. Then again, so did Alfonso Soriano. And Aramis Ramirez.
@ EnricoPallazzo:
You could buy a digital projector like the ones they use in class and project the game on your wall, a white sheet , GF’s rack, etc.
Then you’d also have the projector for when MB came over so he could use it to explain how to convert among rWar, fWAR, WARP, and GARP.
@ Suburban kid:
Campana as a kid, training for stealing bases
In response to comments 26-33, more or less, about WGN and its relevance today, I repeat my question from earlier.
Do the Cubs have a method to reach 12-year-olds of today, like they did in the 80s when kids came home from school and watched the game?
I think MLB absconding with internet rights pretty much screwed up the ability of teams to innovate in this medium. Personally, I’d stream games to anyone who liked me on Facebook or MySpace (assuming it’s video/music/pop niche is really legit, and not a dying gasp).
I’d also be aggressive in exploring ways to send live feeds to smart phones in ways that don’t blow up one’s data package.
So Tim Stauffer of the Padres is an FA. He seems like he could be a Maholm-like pick up this winter.
@ SVB:
Was he hurt?
I was thinking the same thing about Dallas Braden, who just became a free agent as well.
@ Rice Cube:
Yes, he had elbow surgery, but seemed to come back ok
@ SVB:
I agree, but that’s like wishing for a perpetual motion machine. That said I think MLB (or anyone else steaming video) should make a big investment in compressed sensing research.
new shit: http://www.obstructedview.net/commentary-and-analysis/season-in-review-darwin-barney.html